Author Topic: The Republic of the Sphere: My Heart Will Go On (With Another Faction)  (Read 18419 times)

Church14

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Re: The Republic of the Sphere: My Heart Will Go On (With Another Faction)
« Reply #150 on: 04 December 2024, 08:14:29 »
Flipped through FM 3145 again and this is what makes me wonder if the writers forgot the Newgrange ship: Tucker writes that the Republic lost the Faslane ship Iustitia in an industrial accident and the other three Faslanes Clementia, Harmonia and Necessitas were decomissioned and mothballed in the late 3120's. This must either be a writing error or someone downgraded the Mercy to a Faslane. Sarna notices for this that the Blake's Mercy was first renamed to Mercy and then later to Clementia and that it is in fact the last Newgrange ship.

Here is the quote from the FM 3145
and our three other Faslanes—Clementia, Harmonia, and Necessitas—were decommissioned and mothballed in the late 3120s

If he had written Yardships it would have been more in line. So my guess:they will probbaly tear apart the Faslanes to get the Newgrange up and running. If said ship can actually be reactivated, after all. It sat out there for nearly 30 years without maintenance (except perhaps cursory checks)
Mothballed doesn’t mean no maintenance. It means putting the ship into a state where absolutely minimum maintenance is used to keep it able to reactivate. Invisible Turth was one of two Cameron classes that ComStar had, and eventually they decommissioned the other to use for parts to keep Truth viable. It does also mean that some parts have been stripped to use elsewhere. So there would be substantial work to bring it back online, but I would think significantly less than bringing some of the damaged clan warships online again.

And even then, the art with Clementia sure looks like it’s running. Lights are on and there’s something in its bay. My guess is it isn’t in sol, but in Ross 248. A hidden system close to Terra.

Stormlion1

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Re: The Republic of the Sphere: My Heart Will Go On (With Another Faction)
« Reply #151 on: 04 December 2024, 08:41:08 »
Don't forget this is space. Mothballing a ship could mean nothing more than parking it in a stable spot, turning off the power and opening it to vacuum.
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Cannonshop

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Re: The Republic of the Sphere: My Heart Will Go On (With Another Faction)
« Reply #152 on: 04 December 2024, 09:16:30 »
Don't forget this is space. Mothballing a ship could mean nothing more than parking it in a stable spot, turning off the power and opening it to vacuum.

thing is, space isn't NEARLy as empty as you might think.  Radiation, solar winds, micro debris...

Plus, as we've seen in stories like "Isle of the Blessed", ships interiors are appointed with things that react distinctly badly to vacuum exposure.  The last thing you want to find out, is that your airlock seals stopped being able to seal things because they were allowed to dry out and become inflexible, or that your control surfaces ended up becoming vacuum-welded in whatever setting they were left in.

or that your interior surfaces have become radioactive thanks to cosmic rays coming through your open doors and saturating over the last few decades.

Or, that your life support has to be reworked because the algae-loaded water in the pipes is sterilized, the toilets stopped working becuae your mothball crew didn't drain the sludge completely...

There's a lot more to a starship than powerplant, guns, and fuel tanks.  Battletech doesn't offer us the magical technologies of Star Trek, like replicators or charged gravity plates or invisible environmental support (except when required by plot).  Word of Blake were fitting their pocket warships with teak cabinetry and china tea-sets in Isle of the Blessed, suggesting standard operations are done in shirtsleeves conditions at pleasant-ambient temperatures internally.  That means the one thing you do NOT want, is to expose the interior to hard vacuum for sustained periods.

Since it also doesn't include magical replicators, to have breathable air means solutions akin to those you see in "The Expanse"-that means if you're storing it for a long time, you're probably going to have to re-seed the internal 'garden' (Likely an Algae-cycle that also doubles as part of your waste processing, may include fish and microbial life to keep things sustained since breathing air is BULKY and crews that drink water need to have a recycling cycle because water is also bulky-and incompressible.)

Think of it this way: anything meant to be out for more than a couple of weeks needs to have at least a bit of self-sustaining structure for the sake of efficiency.  The least technically challenging way to do that, is with a customized biome-microbes and algae that can convert light and heat into energy for reprocessing CO2 into carbon and oxygen, purify/clarify graywater and blackwater lines (piss and shit) into a supplementary food and water source, possibly with some leftovers that can be harvested and exchangd in or turned over for fresh water and surface sources of food.

Algae, plankton, fish.  Algae is the most efficient photosynthesis by weight, it's easy to interface the atmosphere processors and waste systems, it's relatively durable and can be 're-grown' if portions are lost, it's self sustaining and so on, and it works as a carbon capture, which you need in order to not smother the crew on their own CO2. (Scrubbers are nice, but they're also points of failure and non-self-replenishing-they don't clean themselves.)

This type of arrangement also explains why even Blakists wouldn't see having wood interior panels and china sets as frankly ridiculous-they literally can't operate in a de-pressurized environment, and if everyone's building the same way, neither can anyone else.  (there are workarounds including valves and plumbing setups.)

admittedly, all of the stuff I just said, is wild speculation-but it's wild speculation that doesn't demand inventing super-technologies that wouild be hard and far in advance of anything we've seen in the setting thus far.

a few other things to recommend the idea:  water works as a neutron buffer.  This is kind of useful when you're constantly exposed to cosmic rays, it works as a heat sink and heat distribution to keep the interior of the ship at a relatively safe constant temperature, and can be used as an environmental moderator.

and it works as a medium for environmental cooling of the hull and decks (Note the towers on nearly every Warship out there-those big fins? you're not going to be using those for aerodynamic controls, but radiating waste heat into space is kinda useful for not cooking your crew...)
« Last Edit: 04 December 2024, 09:22:33 by Cannonshop »
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Metallgewitter

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Re: The Republic of the Sphere: My Heart Will Go On (With Another Faction)
« Reply #153 on: 04 December 2024, 12:46:20 »
Mothballed doesn’t mean no maintenance. It means putting the ship into a state where absolutely minimum maintenance is used to keep it able to reactivate. Invisible Turth was one of two Cameron classes that ComStar had, and eventually they decommissioned the other to use for parts to keep Truth viable. It does also mean that some parts have been stripped to use elsewhere. So there would be substantial work to bring it back online, but I would think significantly less than bringing some of the damaged clan warships online again.

And even then, the art with Clementia sure looks like it’s running. Lights are on and there’s something in its bay. My guess is it isn’t in sol, but in Ross 248. A hidden system close to Terra.

Decomissioned and mothballed. While it is true that the art shows the ship apparently active then comes the question how much of it's original capabilities are left? And how fast can a crew be trained to operate it to any degree? And even more, can it actually jump? If yes then it will definetly become invaluable (until it's blown up) Or someone gets a copy of the SLOT virus and decides to infect the Clementia
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Cannonshop

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Re: The Republic of the Sphere: My Heart Will Go On (With Another Faction)
« Reply #154 on: 04 December 2024, 14:43:55 »
Decomissioned and mothballed. While it is true that the art shows the ship apparently active then comes the question how much of it's original capabilities are left? And how fast can a crew be trained to operate it to any degree? And even more, can it actually jump? If yes then it will definetly become invaluable (until it's blown up) Or someone gets a copy of the SLOT virus and decides to infect the Clementia

The art, could just be...art.

Like I speculated before-the Republic had quite a lot of time, and access to the original engineering drawings and tooling, to fix it, given stone's 'Strategy' as seen in Hour of the Wolf, it's not outside of reason that the Ravens are nabbing a ship that's already repaired, may be ready for deployment, and may well have been left in that state due to the crew being reallocated to ground units, or that sorry excuse of an aerospace defense over Titan.

It's not a bad investment to make, for the Republic either-a mobile repair shop capable of recovering damaged vessels is NOT a bad investment for a nation, even in peacetime, because interstellar nations are not like ground-bound polities-your tow truck has to bring everything, including air, food, water and sleeping quarters with  them.

but compact core ships aren't exactly inexpensive.  If Stone were serious about contemplating a counterattack as the endpoint of his strategy, (one of the justifications for how weak the Republic's Naval forces were in the battles-they were 'being held back for the counterattack' or some such nonsense according to some posters here) then it's logical that someone on his staff is aware of the concept of logistics, and having a big, mobile repair yard is better if you're planning to go on the offensive, than not having one.

The heavy losses in the combat even accounts for the crew being absent-they were reallocated once it was clear that the Clan invaders were a lot more numerous than Stone planned for and a lot better equipped and organized.  Panic drafts like happened with Russian sailors in the First World war, and again with Kreigsmarine personnel during the fall of Berlin-the crew were sent to shore up or free up ground fighters and eitehr died or were captured in the surrender.

THAT would fit with the ship's lighting being active and the Snow Ravens using a marine assault to get the skeleton caretaker crew out of the way or apprehended before tehy can jump this supremely valuable and expensive asset off to nowhere.

but again, wild speculation.
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Re: The Republic of the Sphere: My Heart Will Go On (With Another Faction)
« Reply #155 on: 09 December 2024, 14:32:55 »
Did the Word ever completely or mostly control a world in Skye's prefecture or just outside?  A world formerly owned by the Lyrans?

I know they were on Skye itself, but aside from battles to remove them I do not recall if they actually controlled that world.
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Cannonshop

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Re: The Republic of the Sphere: My Heart Will Go On (With Another Faction)
« Reply #156 on: 09 December 2024, 14:55:41 »
Did the Word ever completely or mostly control a world in Skye's prefecture or just outside?  A world formerly owned by the Lyrans?

I know they were on Skye itself, but aside from battles to remove them I do not recall if they actually controlled that world.

Hesperus II, IIRC they also got Muphrid.  The 'Blake protectorate' covered most of the former Terran Hegemony's map, which is a decent chunk of the Isle of Skye previously.

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Metallgewitter

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Re: The Republic of the Sphere: My Heart Will Go On (With Another Faction)
« Reply #157 on: 09 December 2024, 16:50:09 »
Did the Word ever completely or mostly control a world in Skye's prefecture or just outside?  A world formerly owned by the Lyrans?

I know they were on Skye itself, but aside from battles to remove them I do not recall if they actually controlled that world.

Solaris VII at one point though you might call it "contested". They even held Coventry and Galatea for a time before Stone's coaltion drove them off
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Church14

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Well, for those that read Trial of Birthright (came out on the 1st), we got to see the first shapes of a post-HotW spiritual successor. There's a few names you'd expect to see, some notably missing.

We got some Levin, Lakewood, Mason Dunne, Reynard Seychelles. Though no Herman Manes.


tassa_kay

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Well, for those that read Trial of Birthright (came out on the 1st)

That isn't the Snow Raven novel that we were supposed to get, is it? I know the writer is the one that was supposed to be writing that.

EDIT: Disregard, that novel is gonna be "A Treachery of Ravens".
« Last Edit: 02 January 2025, 15:29:41 by tassa_kay »
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Church14

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That isn't the Snow Raven novel that we were supposed to get, is it? I know the writer is the one that was supposed to be writing that.

EDIT: Disregard, that novel is gonna be "A Treachery of Ravens".
Yeah, besides Trial of Birthright:
Voidbreaker - Sea Fox Operative hunting Tucker Harwell
Blood Will Rise - Capellan side of iKEO
Treachery of Ravens - about, well, Ravens
The Long Road - Tara Campbell story
Also, apparently 4 short RasDom stories.

Fiction is looking nice coming up.

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I am still waiting for the compilation of the merc novellas, like the Lexington Combat Group & Sea Foxes.
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Metallgewitter

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Guess Tucker will be the one bringing back the HPG's again after all is it? Of course only if the Foxes can somehow fix his brain and he is bored of playing Terra's biggest Twitter troll
That what does not kill us has made it's last mistake!

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Guess Tucker will be the one bringing back the HPG's again after all is it? Of course only if the Foxes can somehow fix his brain and he is bored of playing Terra's biggest Twitter troll
That will be interesting story, his sister damaged his brain after going full WoB on him.  If any of the past later fictions suggest other than being angry man who aided Stone.
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Church14

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I normally wouldn’t do a book review, but I’m probably the noisiest Republic fan, so why not:

Non-spoiler thoughts:
ToB had to balance what surely had to look impossible at first. First, make the wolves flawed and forced to adapt or wither so that they are an actual faction of characters and not plot devices - and do this without resorting to character assassination. Second, create an SLDF/Star League that is not just Clan Wolf cosplaying. Third, balance the competing interests of Foxes, Ravens, Falcons, nuJags, and Wolves in a way that gives fans of the factions a fun time. Last, find a way to give something back to Republic fans who were/are justifiably angry at the treatment of their faction at the hands of HotW. Or at least throw them a bone.
All that while laying groundwork for an era. No biggie.

Did it accomplish all this? No. Does it accomplish most of this? Yes, and that’s a hell of an achievement because balancing all of those things would need a Atlas Shrugged style tomb that drags on. It makes the novel manageable by leaving a lot of the nuJag, Falcon, Fox, and Raven stories for iKEO or the series of books I just listed upthread. It focuses on the SLDF and how they relate to Terra and the Wolves, which was - after reading - I think the right choice.

Okay. Spoiler thoughts going forward. Starting with characters.
Darren Wolf - He’s our ground level point of view character like Dan Allard and Andrew Redburn were in Warrior trilogy. The human element showing the effects of the grand sweeping decisions of khans and house lords. In that aspect, he succeeds. The B-plot that is meant to make him memorable ends up being the weakest part of the book for me. This may be a personal taste thing, but I do not care about a character’s lineage or parents unless it’s plot relevant. Isolated to this book, the big reveal of who his geneparents are pretty much goes nowhere. There’s a lot of back of forth about the worth of a Kerensky, but it’s isolated essentially wholly from the rest of the book.

Anastasia Kerensky - For people who were already fans of Anastasia, I think this book is likely a treat. She comes off like one of only two Wolves of significant influence that have a clear head. She’s pragmatic, effective, still supremely selfish, and you see a clear divide between her, Alaric, Chance, and even Noritomo. Unlike most of the Wolves, she is looking at secondary and tertiary effects of the actions of the ilClan and Star League.

For people who didn’t like her pre-ToB, it feels weird. It may be me, but she doesn’t feel like the Anastasia I’m familiar with. If this had been a new character from scratch, she’d be near the top of the list for Wolf characters for me. The baggage of odd and inconsistent characterization makes her feel really, really weird in this role.


Noritomo Helmer - The most interesting Wolf in Trial of Birthright isn’t a wolf. He’s engaging because while he is a clanner, he understands he needs people with other points of view and differing expertise in running Terra than himself. A clanner willing to seek out and ask for help without a figurative or literal gun to his head is refreshing.

Alaric Ward - He was a forgettable character pre-HotW and a terrible one in it. ToB doesn’t dig him out of the HotW hole in one go, but you can see some narrative lumber being tossed into that hole for Alaric to build a way out. There’s groundwork laid and progress made toward him at least being a good vehicle towards an interesting, engaging era. The biggest thing that's improved is the obnoxious internal monologue of “I’m the Best!” on repeat of too many Wolf protagonists is smashed with a hammer.

Okay. Spoiler thoughts on the factions as they are characters unto themselves. Now, admittedly, I have some strong opinions on Clan Wolf, the fall of Terra, and end of the RotS. I’m going to try and split plot quality from personal satisfaction here

Clan Wolf - They come off pretty bad in ToB, but not in a way that feels like character assassination. Politics are dividing their focus, capable warriors are moved because they make ‘non-clanlike’ moves. It really feels like the ‘ultra-pragmatist’ wolves have gotten high on their own supply as ilClan and expect too many things to just work now that Alaric's got the crown. Their responses to problems are too heavy handed, ill-thought out, and overall ineffective. It demonstrates a difference between conquering and ruling that I think is needed to give wolves a real flaw instead of them continuing to breeze through every problem.

Personal comments on wolves: Wolves aren’t getting the easy, lazy wins that defy setting logic anymore. That alone is a huge, huge improvement for their writing. While I still don’t find them an interesting faction, the steps are laid to get them to be one.


Republic Resistance - For 70% of the book, the Republic resistance operates functionally as much as anyone could hope. Belters strike at shipyards and cell structured mech units only meet up at targets and flee quickly. The Wolves are shown to be suffering some effects of it. Swapping to energy heavy loadouts, using dialed down laser weapons instead of more conventional ballistic weapons during infantry/ground ops training. The main issue comes around that 70% mark when the resistance starts crossing lines and gets much, much more bloodthirsty. An informed reader can fill in gaps about a closing window to accomplish anything and the pressures of being an insurgent causing the resistance to start mentally cracking, but the book is covering a lot of ground and the character arcs in the resistance aren't really laid out. Someone casually reading might have a “whaaaat?” moment.

Personal feelings: The early parts of the novel covering the resistance is great. Including some pretty funny dramatic irony over the Wolves being incredibvly angry that someone would dare kill a wolf warrior after a battle. The Stonehearts are the unit leading the resistance. We learn this at that same 70% mark when they snap and start targeting civilians. It’s so far out of character for any RAF but Ghost Knights that it feels forced, even with considering the full context. There’s also the issue of reconciling their Shrapnel entry with this novel. For full context, Ciaravella wrote both that entry and ToB, so this isn’t some author with an ax to grind. There’s logic here behind choosing the Stonehearts that I don’t see yet.


Star League Defense Force - This is the most complicated faction to evaluate. There’s a cautious cynicism behind it’s creation and division from Wolves proper. A worry that Alaric and the Wolves don’t actually know how to build a lasting league. So, Anastasia is hammering together a force to be there to win hearts and minds. The new SLDF take efforts to render aid in disasters, show mercy to enemies, and keep making the Wolves look like murderous, shortsighted monsters. That said, there’s no easy, free ride. Through six months, they forge a whopping one regiment and a second is announced near the end. This force seems to be built with ex-RAF as the backbone, along with solamha, politically inconvenient clan warriors, and a few nuJags and Falcons who want in on it. It does ring like a force earning the name “League.”

Personal: I don’t know yet, If you scratch at the surface, you’ll sniff out what’s meant to be a place for Republic fans. But those same RAF are welcoming of Falcon and nuJags without seeming to have issue with two groups they should be all measures despise. There’s a contradiction that I’m not entirely sold on. I need to be clear: this is far from me crapping on the new faction. If anything, I like the new SLDF much more than I expected.


Unrelated spoilery thing: There’s some commentary on Stone that I’m going to come back and read later. I’m not sure how I view it now.
« Last Edit: 04 January 2025, 12:59:37 by Church14 »

tassa_kay

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Welp, you just sold a copy of the book, Church. Thank you, because I was really hoping to read a review first, and I trust you.
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Church14

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It's been surprisingly quiet on any conversation about the novel. Possibly just with people out and about for New Year's stuff. I figured I'd kickstart it. That was meant to just be a bare bones review.

Metallgewitter

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For the Republic resistance part: never forget how the resistance during Amaris occupation developed. at one point resistance fighters took a very Capellan stance on killing their own people: "sacrifices of the cause" or "unfortunate casualties"

Also the part of the Wolves being angry one of theirs is killed after a fight: do they conveniently forget how THEY treated RAF members during their rush to Terra? I am just waiting for a coup by the "new" SLDF to depose the "Lord" and install a better one.

And as last: Tucker was stilll portrayed as a smart and crafty man when he found and brought back Stone. It seems so far the brain damage has just slowed him down not made any personality changes (hopefully) besides him now being a very angry man (I liked the "Don't you dare to mention the word faith in front of me ever again!"  snap at Stone during Shattered Fortress). The question will be how the Clanners will try to convince him to work for them. Would be a shame if he covertly begins to insert all kinds of viruses into the overall networks of the goverment. Or even destroy the last remaining HPG's
That what does not kill us has made it's last mistake!

We are eternal! We are etheral! We will fight you until the skies fall and the heavens burn!

Remember: retreat hell!

Church14

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For the Republic resistance part: never forget how the resistance during Amaris occupation developed. at one point resistance fighters took a very Capellan stance on killing their own people: "sacrifices of the cause" or "unfortunate casualties"

Also the part of the Wolves being angry one of theirs is killed after a fight: do they conveniently forget how THEY treated RAF members during their rush to Terra? I am just waiting for a coup by the "new" SLDF to depose the "Lord" and install a better one.

And as last: Tucker was stilll portrayed as a smart and crafty man when he found and brought back Stone. It seems so far the brain damage has just slowed him down not made any personality changes (hopefully) besides him now being a very angry man (I liked the "Don't you dare to mention the word faith in front of me ever again!"  snap at Stone during Shattered Fortress). The question will be how the Clanners will try to convince him to work for them. Would be a shame if he covertly begins to insert all kinds of viruses into the overall networks of the goverment. Or even destroy the last remaining HPG's
The resistance bit is why I said a reader could see the arc if they think about the context. It's just that the pressures the Resistance faces are not a focus of the novel, so it's a bit jarring.

For angry wolves: I swear it must be intentional dramatic irony. It's such a perfect lack of self awareness.

Tucker doesn't appear in ToB, he'll get his time to shine and or get dunked on in Voidbreaker. Admittedly, him getting captured and choosing to sabotage it so Foxes break even more HPGs is amusing.  Though a bit far fetched that Foxes wouldn't have someone trying to follow his work. If only to duplicate it elsewhere

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Weren't the Foxes shown as having started bringing some HPGs back online before now?
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Church14

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Weren't the Foxes shown as having started bringing some HPGs back online before now?
Yes. But it's slow work. Maybe they think Tucker knows something more

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Weren't the Foxes shown as having started bringing some HPGs back online before now?

August 6, 3152 is the day the Alyina HPG goes back online.  It's the very last thing at the end of the timeline in Tamar Rising.

EDIT: It could be August 7, the 20 year anniversary of Gray Monday, depending on whether the offline days count is inclusive of the date of reactivation or not.
« Last Edit: 04 January 2025, 17:56:56 by Scotty »
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Republic fans want a resistance? Even after the leadership surrendered?

Church14

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Republic fans want a resistance? Even after the leadership surrendered?
Moreso they want anything that isn’t just the Republic dying, nobody caring, and every RAF trooper crying into a whiskey bottle - which is largely the only lore that existed until ToB

There’s… rather extensive threads on here about the way the RotS died and how it felt like an intentional insult to Republic fans. CGL offering something for them the cheer on, even if it fizzles, is welcome.

Wrangler

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Seems to be some need for better coordination on how persons, factions, individuals behave and react.  Hopefully it improves.
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bobthecoward

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Interesting.Ilclan was the first time I really got how impressive the RAF was and started liking them.

They created a force that took like 125 clusters to defeat. That is awesome

Fire Scorpion IIC

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Moreso they want anything that isn’t just the Republic dying, nobody caring, and every RAF trooper crying into a whiskey bottle - which is largely the only lore that existed until ToB.....
...

Got no horse in any race south of Lyrans but until very recently I had no idea RotS even had fans or at least non-haters

For two decades all I heard about RotS from fandom has been nothing but pure unfiltered hatred and scorn

Only once they lost to Wolves had fans started appearing out of the blue

Had they said anything at any point during this century maybe RotS would have still existed, SMH...




Church14

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Got no horse in any race south of Lyrans but until very recently I had no idea RotS even had fans or at least non-haters

For two decades all I heard about RotS from fandom has been nothing but pure unfiltered hatred and scorn

Only once they lost to Wolves had fans started appearing out of the blue
There's a couple things at work with your impression of a lack of fans.
- Fans tend to be quieter and get drowned out by those who loudly dislike a thing.
- There were legitimate reasons to be wary of RotS when it was first introduced, and those got repeated until long after they were relevant
- The online footprint of the fanbase is not the fanbase. For example: There's not that many huge wolf fans online, but Clan Wolf themed product is a top seller.

But there's actually a good reason why you wouldn't notice RotS fans until more recently.
- 2018 had shattered fortress, where you see the collapse of the Republic. Really the main setting altering sourcebook for years until Tamar Rising in 2022.
- 2019 was the Clan invasion Kickstarter. Battletech sees a massive spike in popularity. New fans are coming in and reading sourcebooks.
- 2021 was Hour of the wolf.

Which means you have an era where there's an influx of new blood, without the leftover ill will from clix era, who are introduced mostly to Clan Invasion era and the end of Dark Ages where the collapse of prefecture X in a manner that makes the enemies of the RotS wary of a trap. It's the most dynamic new lore available. So, while I have no data to support it, it would not surprise me to find out that a lot of new blood liked the Republic of the Sphere.

Had they said anything at any point during this century maybe RotS would have still existed, SMH...
Blaming fans of a faction for its demise is, at best, wrong.

glitterboy2098

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Interesting.Ilclan was the first time I really got how impressive the RAF was and started liking them.

They created a force that took like 125 clusters to defeat. That is awesome
and if they hadn't been led by strategic and tactical idiots, it would have taken even more to beat them.

bobthecoward

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and if they hadn't been led by strategic and tactical idiots, it would have taken even more to beat them.

Wouldn't they just correct both sides for what you define as intelligent to end up with the same results?