BSP Assets

[Geg]

I have now played 4 games with assets making up about 25-30% of the forces on the board by BV, in both the beta and the box set. This is not pulling from some deep well or through understanding of the mechanics, but more initial reaction of how things felt on the table.

• They are fun: The units are capable enough, and present enough choices to make them fun to play, and fun to play against.
• They play fast: Dropping 3000bv / 150bsp of assets added less play time than adding an equivalent 3000bv mech.
• Vee Spam is a real concern: Tanks without motive hits are terrifying.  100bsp of heavy tanks, really feels like it could easily end a mech up to its 2000bv cost equivalent.
• BA and Infantry Turn into Minefields:  It's a different sort of area denial.  It works, but I can't see my self giving up the traditional BA units. For conventional infantry, I like the BSP assets better.

The BSP Assets are going to be great for scenarios and other type of one off games.  Anyone GMing a game will be able to use them to great effect to build up more interesting scenarios without having to blow up the amount of play time to resolve those scenarios.  The (current) lack of a MUL equivalent to generate asset cards for all the BA and Vees in the game is going to limit its overall usefulness, as it makes it harder for player to build up a fluffy force.  The assets disposable nature makes it a bit harder to get attached, and I am having a hard time seeing someone opting to spend BV on asset units over real units without an organizer mandate.   Unfortunately, I haven't gotten my box yet, so I haven't read the campaign rules, let alone had a chance to play test.

So net-net is that they feel like a great tool for GM/OpFor dare I say more narrative game play, but with players being far more ambivalent.

[Weirdo]

I haven't read the Mercs rulebook yet, did they keep the BSP/BV conversion?

BA and Infantry Turn into Minefields:

They already were. With the exception of the most mobile squads/platoons, that's pretty much exactly how infantry have operated for years, both armored and conventional. You stick them in a spot, and barring some minor redeployment using their limited mobility, their job is to make the other player regret moving into that spot

[Prometheum5]

I haven't read the Mercs rulebook yet, did they keep the BSP/BV conversion?

Yes, but the actual value has been updated to 1 BSP = 20 BV.

[Weirdo]

Yes, but the actual value has been updated to 1 BSP = 20 BV.

Works for me. The precise number isn't important to me, what's important is that if one player wants to use BSP, the other player isn't required to do the same if they want to keep the numbers even.

[Prometheum5]

Totally! That's specifically addressed in the booklet.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

I posted a thread about these rules in ground combat, but no real bites.

I am looking forward to rereading the rules and trying them out next time I get a big classic game.

[Rob Bendig]

I haven't got my stuff yet - so this is just an impression going off what someone was saying in a YouTube video. I'm worried that the new armor rules might be a bit too...light? Going into the KS Campaign, I was thinking it would be fun to be able to run tank on tank battles using rules that were a little simpler than Total War. But it seems like the rules are really stripped down. Again, this is just an impression based upon commentary in a video.

Would the new rules make for a fun all armor and infantry experience?

[Lanceman]

I haven't got my stuff yet - so this is just an impression going off what someone was saying in a YouTube video. I'm worried that the new armor rules might be a bit too...light? Going into the KS Campaign, I was thinking it would be fun to be able to run tank on tank battles using rules that were a little simpler than Total War. But it seems like the rules are really stripped down. Again, this is just an impression based upon commentary in a video.

Would the new rules make for a fun all armor and infantry experience?

They really aren't designed with that in mind. It's more about throwing some additional stuff in to spice up your mech matches easily. Not that you couldn't do it, but it probably wouldn't be as satisfying in that regard.

[Prometheum5]

They are definitely designed more to add color and some extra obstacles to your 'Mech-focused games. You could pit armor assets against each other with the strikes and air support elements, but you're kinda just rolling attacks and then checking if you killed something or not, there's no granular damage effects or to the assets, just an overall degradation that makes them gradually easier to kill. That said, they are super approachable and make it easy to add a lot of unit variety to a game without bogging it down and taking focus away from the 'Mechs.

[DevianID]

Geg, I too play with BSP a lot.  Some observations from me:

If your players like light, evasive mechs, then BSP is a tool for rewarding them.  Since the BSP always run, they are starting at 6+ the light mechs evasion.  Further, the light mech only needs to deal 8 damage to have a chance to degrade/destroy the larger tanks.  So light mechs can go 'BSP hunting' in a way that rewards light mech enjoyers, as otherwise light mechs usually fall off in games with players opting for pulse lasers and special pilot skills (which BSP units dont get).

Internal balance on the BSP isnt great.  I have previously posted about this, but in short the heavy tanks and infantry are pretty good, and the faster stuff is pretty bad.  Part of this is the overall speed reduction... a Pegasus that moves 8 is a very different animal then a Pegasus that moves 12 for bringing its guns to bear, while a tank that moves 4 with a long range gun, versus a tank that runs 6, isnt much of a difference.  The manticore in particular is really good for BSP use, as its 11 damage gun at 18 inch range lets you roll with a +1 on the chart versus other BSP units, it has a turret, and it has enough armor to require a few rolls to kill, unlike say the galleon.

The infantry are vastly better then by the book infantry with players fumbling through damage divisors and heaps of special case rules, but a swarm of 140 BV BSP infantry is still rough to grind through despite being far superior to manage vs an equal BV in 90BV total warfare infantry to grind through. 

[Lorcan Nagle]

I don't see BSP replacing standard vehicle rules in my usual games, but I have ideas around using them for narrative games, PvE campaigns and other stuff where I'm essentially GMing for players.

[Geg]

If your players like light, evasive mechs, then BSP is a tool for rewarding them.  Since the BSP always run, they are starting at 6+ the light mechs evasion.  Further, the light mech only needs to deal 8 damage to have a chance to degrade/destroy the larger tanks.  So light mechs can go 'BSP hunting' in a way that rewards light mech enjoyers, as otherwise light mechs usually fall off in games with players opting for pulse lasers and special pilot skills (which BSP units dont get).

Woe be unto you...   

If you are facing heavy tanks and don't have a far jumping medium or two.  You need to get a unit behind the stack for that sweet double damage, with a high enough TMM to not get flattened in the process.

I think there might have been a rule change around the 8.  We played with degradation on the 11s (11, 21, etc).  I don't actual have a copy of the rules, so I can't even check if we were doing that wrong or not.   Needing to do 11 dmg to have any effect, in my opinion, makes it much harder for Light mechs to be viable for asset hunting. Lights still need to get too close in order to ensure they can do enough damage to have a lasting effect, and if they are tagged once, they are effectively out of the game. You really need something like PHX with 2x snPPCs, Shadow Cat with the GR, or the Huntsman with 2x LPLs in order to win those trades.

[NeonKnight]

I don't see BSP replacing standard vehicle rules in my usual games, but I have ideas around using them for narrative games, PvE campaigns and other stuff where I'm essentially GMing for players.

This is what I plan on doing once I have the rules and stuff.

My Campaign is very 'Mech Centric - but I definitely want some added flavour from Vees and stuff without bogging things down.

[butchbird]

Good point on slower vees maintaining their value...but that's only as long as they have long range weapons. Game I played with BSP, the Ontos couldn't keep up with the battle, getting only a few low-odds firing chances at back stabbers.

Also, its true that it gives added importance to light 'mechs. The BSP rules have been tweaked so that most vees need only five damage to force a destruction check. A failed destruction check automatically lowers the needed roll for next time its hit (and theres another variable about the total amount of damage in a turn, also). Very, very interesting. On a more personnal note, my group having shifted to 3/4 pilots instead of 4/5 mechwarriors for the sake of game duration and BSP vees having a weak gunnery skill, this means a big sigh of relief for the light 'mechs which get a second chance at relevance.

It's always satisfying to have the likes of a Wasp taking on heavy tanks with a chance of success, as long as you value the "Battlemechs are king of the battlefield" aspect.

The BSP rules sure take away flavour from conventionals on a individual basis compared to BMR or TW rules, but give a wonderful new option for expanding a game whithout making it any longer in terms of duration.

[Charistoph]

Since the BSP always run, they are starting at 6+ the light mechs evasion.

If only BSP Assets ever got an AMM.

[DevianID]

If only BSP Assets ever got an AMM.

They do, it's included in their profile already, but does come up again when spotting, where a non-infantry BSP acting as a spotter gives a +2 for 'spotter running'.

[Charistoph]

They do, it's included in their profile already, but does come up again when spotting, where a non-infantry BSP acting as a spotter gives a +2 for 'spotter running'.

That's an assumption, and is stated otherwise in the Stat section under Skill or in Combat.  The only time "Running" is mentioned is when it applies to Movement itself.

[DevianID]

That's an assumption, and is stated otherwise in the Stat section under Skill or in Combat.  The only time "Running" is mentioned is when it applies to Movement itself.

What?  It's literally the rules for spotting?  And a BSP special rule for infantry to spot without the running penalty, because all BSP are treated as running for movement purposes.  Unless you can quote something i missed?

[Charistoph]

What?  It's literally the rules for spotting?  And a BSP special rule for infantry to spot without the running penalty, because all BSP are treated as running for movement purposes.  Unless you can quote something i missed?

Ah, I see it now.  Since there wasn't a bold "Spotting" to pick it out, I missed it with quick scanning.