Author Topic: Equipping the RAF Redoubts  (Read 917 times)

Cannonshop

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Re: Equipping the RAF Redoubts
« Reply #30 on: Today at 10:04:46 »
Like the 6 RCTs and change worth of mobile forces we see going after wolf supply lines to cut off their ability to sustain the assaults on redoubts. And the redoubts did work against the Falcons. Geneva bogged down multiple galaxies of troops. Normandy as well. Falcons resorted to orbital bombardment against geneva. Which means the idea worked. Normandy only fell because of “muh Scotland”

We can’t really evaluate how the redoubts worked against the wolves without stepping out of universe because the wolves were just slaughtering whatever they faced regardless of numbers, established logic in universe, and established logic in the novel itself. Nothing about the wolf story in HotW can be taken at face value in universe.

I’d rather stay on topic than rehash this here.

There are a LOT of improbabilities that go on in the BTU, not just with the Wolves.  In TWOR it's an accepted position that a defensive position staffed by peer-level forces will take three times the relative firepower/manpower to take.  That is, Three attackers (or equivalent) for every defender.

Defense is stronger, but offense usually settles decisions.  (See: Blitzkrieg tactics in 1940), usually by cutting off the defenders from relief and isolating them.

which takes  a larger force.  One for one and you get a stalemate at best.

Yet WoB had peer equivalency with some superiority in tech, brian fortresses, an established defense plan with extensive backups and fortifications, and used more resources...and still lost when Devlin Stone and Operation SCOUR came knocking their doors in, using smaller forces that previously hadn't cooperated, much less worked extensively together.

Fortresses ARE broken-by plot, or by isolation and reduction, assuming competent people on both sides, with committed subordinates and adequate supplies and support, forts work as 'fire magnets' that have to be isolated out and reduced-which is the point of fortress doctrine in the first place-to tie down an attacker reducing the defensive works until reinforcement or relief can arrive to lift the seige.

your examples show fortress doctrine working correctly in some cases, and mismanaged grossly in others.

That said, going back to the original question, RAF Redoubts would be heavily dependent on a number of combinations, including bunker networks, trench lines, artillery positions, and obstacles to include minefields or equivalent.  Point being you're not gonna have a short list, since to be of any use, you need pretty much something from everything, including mobile forces that can be deployed out to harass an investing attacker or spot for artillery and mortars.

that is, if you want it to work on more than the reputation of Devlin Stone (Or insert your favorite legendary leader here).

and I'll point out again; Stone used the same strategy The Master used, and that Amaris used before him-only with fewer resources.   This doesnt' mean all of his subordinate commanders were incompetent or bad at the job, just that the whole thing hinged on a might-be instead of on certainties.  Portions of the plan were executed well, but the entire plan was executed poorly because the entire plan was planned poorly in the prep phase.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Equipping the RAF Redoubts
« Reply #31 on: Today at 11:31:01 »
I don’t think we can really say with any level of specificity.  We don’t know enough about the production capabilities/storage behind the Fortress wall.  HotW and the IlClan Sourcebook had so many new units equipped with advanced tech that for all we know the Redoubts were full of clantech omnivehicles.  Maybe Victor took “magic warehouse” tech with him to the Republic.   :rolleyes:
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Church14

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Re: Equipping the RAF Redoubts
« Reply #32 on: Today at 12:01:18 »
HotW and the IlClan Sourcebook had so many new units equipped with advanced tech that for all we know the Redoubts were full of clantech omnivehicles.  Maybe Victor took “magic warehouse” tech with him to the Republic.   :rolleyes:
To be fair to HotW - there's a sentence coming from me - it's clear well from Shattered Fortress that the RotS has been pushing tech hard in the last 15 years. New superheavies, new ultralights, RISC is somehow stable-ish un used in a lot of formations, drone mechs, new builds with clanSpec. And not in small numbers either. HotW actually wildly underplays how advanced the RAF is. Let's face it, that's due to the author. ilClan corrects back towards what it should be, but still sells it short.

And Clan Wolf's magical clanspeccification of the Empire to be able to produce so much pure clanSpec hardware really started in FM3145

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Equipping the RAF Redoubts
« Reply #33 on: Today at 12:28:15 »
Yeah, but that’s what I’m saying.  I’d love to say that the militia in the redoubts were given the old hand-me-downs and equipment recovered from graveyards, but given the massive tech push, we don’t know that they weren’t deploying brand new Demolisher Cs and Dire Wolves.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

Church14

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Re: Equipping the RAF Redoubts
« Reply #34 on: Today at 12:41:45 »
Yeah, but that’s what I’m saying.  I’d love to say that the militia in the redoubts were given the old hand-me-downs and equipment recovered from graveyards, but given the massive tech push, we don’t know that they weren’t deploying brand new Demolisher Cs and Dire Wolves.
We know that at least one had a company of superheavies.

And we know people, not hardware, was the limiting factor

I don’t see dire wolves in the militia units, but I can see RAF standards like laments in even the militias. Maybe hellbringers or other less optimal clan chassis

Colt Ward

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Re: Equipping the RAF Redoubts
« Reply #35 on: Today at 14:13:01 »
Well, there is a implication in the Thresher MK II fluff that the Republic was buying stuff from the Foxes covertly and bringing it inside the Fortress.  Or at least SOMEONE was buying a large amount of mechs near the Fortress that was not the Crusader Wolves.
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Stormlion1

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Re: Equipping the RAF Redoubts
« Reply #36 on: Today at 15:26:57 »
Going all the way back to the first Dark Age novel Ghost War Terra had a massive Battlemech Junkyard full of parts they could have raided for parts to build Mechs for the Militia units. Even if one in a dozen is repairable they could have probably gotten quite a few mechs rebuilt.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Equipping the RAF Redoubts
« Reply #37 on: Today at 15:36:56 »
Going all the way back to the first Dark Age novel Ghost War Terra had a massive Battlemech Junkyard full of parts they could have raided for parts to build Mechs for the Militia units. Even if one in a dozen is repairable they could have probably gotten quite a few mechs rebuilt.

It was a nod towards the US boneyard in the SW, but also part of the Stone myths to draw down the war materials of the Inner Sphere.  It was not the only facility in the Republic either, but most of the easiest designs were probably used during the couple of years playing Canute before the Fortress went up.  But those other MRRP facilities all disappeared by Gray Monday it seems.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Stormlion1

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Re: Equipping the RAF Redoubts
« Reply #38 on: Today at 15:54:48 »
It was a nod towards the US boneyard in the SW, but also part of the Stone myths to draw down the war materials of the Inner Sphere.  It was not the only facility in the Republic either, but most of the easiest designs were probably used during the couple of years playing Canute before the Fortress went up.  But those other MRRP facilities all disappeared by Gray Monday it seems.

Even producing a few 3025 era Mechs for the militia would be better than nothing. The real question is if salvage operations had emptied them out before the Fortress Walls went up. It didn't seem like they would have looked at them until the walls were up. They had other facility at the time producing newer Battlemechs and wouldn't need to look at boneyards yet.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Equipping the RAF Redoubts
« Reply #39 on: Today at 16:38:37 »
It was a nod towards the US boneyard in the SW, but also part of the Stone myths to draw down the war materials of the Inner Sphere.  It was not the only facility in the Republic either, but most of the easiest designs were probably used during the couple of years playing Canute before the Fortress went up.  But those other MRRP facilities all disappeared by Gray Monday it seems.
“Playing Canute”?
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

Colt Ward

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Re: Equipping the RAF Redoubts
« Reply #40 on: Today at 18:35:37 »
Fable where King Canute was sticking plugging holes in the dike that were leaking.

Who knows what was in that boneyard, some of the mechs & tanks that ended up there were forcibly taken.  But yeah, it's beat up gear would be militia level- things that were quality designs would not have ended up in those depots.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

 

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