Author Topic: Motw: Ostsol  (Read 3119 times)

JadeHellbringer

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Motw: Ostsol
« on: 24 September 2024, 16:16:57 »


A somewhat under-the-radar fast heavy/medium from the old days of the game. Must be another Hellbie article. I feel I might be a little typecast here at this point, didn't I just do this with the Champion, the Clint, the Vulcan, etc.? And here we are again with this thing? Don't I get my way? Can't I talk about a Fire Moth, a Banshee, even a Panther or something fun like th-

THE MASKIROVKA THANKS YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE AS WE GET THE AUTHOR BACK ON TRACK

...well, ah, anyway, while I look up what lotion to put on cattle prod scars, let's talk about Kong Interstellar. Our friends at Kong made some interesting Mechs over the years, always starting with 'Ost'- while I never have found an exact reason for this, it's reminiscient of Douglas Aviation starting all of their aircraft designs with 'Sky' (such as the venerable A-4 Skyhawk), and that warms this old aviation buff's heart. Kong, based on two different systems in Loxely and Connaught, had a tough time with the Succession Wars, with the former facility totally wiped out and the latter reduced to a shell of its former self, sputtering out a few spare parts to keep Mechs running but not really able to produce entire machines anymore. While the post-Clan Invasion era helped with that a little, as we'll see later, it meant that during the dark days, their machines became rarer and rarer, and those that survived were almost always composed of cannibalized parts from less-fortunate Osts along the way. The future for Kong and their machines looked grim- but the Mechs themselves? Well, we had a look at the Ostscout a while back, a top-tier scout unit so long as you weren't looking to get in a fight- their heavy designs though... let's look at the Ostsol and see what we have here.

For starters, there's no way around it, the two heavies produced by Kong leading to the fall of the Star League (the Ostwar aside) are stepping on each other's feet here. Both the Ostsol and Ostroc are the same size, same speed, same basic layout, and it's honestly unclear from both in-universe and out-of-universe why they weren't just folded into being two variants of the same chassis. In-universe, it's like watching Toyota put out a four-door sedan to compete with their already-existing Camry- great, but you already make this, why are you cutting into your own sales? I've always believed one should have been a bit smaller or larger than the other, and never will understand why Kong deci-

...

-cattle prod, yeah, I get it.

Anyway, we'll have an article sometime about the Ostroc, but for now let's stay focused on the Ostsol. Specifically, we'll start with the standard Succession Wars stalwart model, the OTL-4D. Behind that oddly-curvaceous armor, we see a 60-ton frame with a big 300-class engine stuffed in it, giving it a 5/8 speed that would make Dragon drivers feel right at home. Using that big engine, as Dragon drivers will attest, means you need to be a little iffy on what kind of weapons you use- big ballistics aren't going to be a good fit here, even if you get creative like we saw with the Champion. Sixteen heat sinks give it a pretty reasonable ability to deal with waste heat if you're careful, with all of the ones not fitting in the engine down in the legs, so find some water! Jump jets aren't installed- you already got a big engine, stop being greedy.

We find that curved armor plating is actually not a bad shell, all things considered- since the arms haven't got any weapons or equipment in them, they're left somewhat under-armored, able to only stop a large laser before going internal, but sinc enothing is there, who cares? That let us focus the armor more in other areas like the side torsos, making what would otherwise be a worrying protection situation pretty reasonable- those side torsos will hold out an AC/20 shot, if only once, ditto for the legs and center! The rear is back to 'oh god, that's bad' levels of protection though, with four points on the sides and six on the center, so a fast unit that can sneak behind one of these has a great turn or two to look forward to (Spiders, for example, are a great way to deal with an Ostsol, so long as you're patient about it). It's an all-or-nothing armor system we don't see often in Battletech, at least not to this extent, and it works pretty well here- the arms are essentially more armor for the side torsos, and you're being strongly encouraged to never, ever let someone see your derriere. Ever. Do not.

So we crammed in a big engine, our armor is surprisingly good despite the weight... we must have had to skimp on guns, right? The Ostsol surprises us here by going with lightweight energy weapons, unlike the Dragon or Champion, and in doing so it's got a reasonable amount of firepower. Know the old rule we have here, 'speed, armor, firepower, pick two'? The Ostsol got creative and managed to pull off all three, really- particularly in the 60-ton dead zone, in which a design becomes much better if it bumps up or down by five tons, that's no small feat. In this case, we start with twin large lasers, in each side torso. This gives you a reasonable punch at useful ranges- I can't call it a 'long range' battery, but it's pretty handy at least. The heat can get a bit rough, since your heat sinks exactly match the lasers' output together without factoring in movement, external factors, other weapons, etc., so this thing does run hot if you aren't careful- but hey, twin eight point hits at handy ranges is a great main battery! To help keep things under control, two medium lasers are mounted as well, each large laser having a co-axial medium with it in the side torsos. In close combat, firing a large and both mediums while at a run keeps you- wait for it- heat neutral, which is pretty handy indeed, and gives you the second large if you really want to live dangerously for a bit. Two more medium lasers are turned backwards in the center torso, and as we already discussed the armor back there is so bad that you shouldn't ever be using these lasers as anything other than a 'from hell's heart...' attempt to kill whomever just got back there to end you.

So. Good Mech, despite expectations. Variants? You betcha. It's a 3025-era design, so get comfy, there's plenty to talk about.

We start with the OTL-4F, an attempt to take a handy mid-close fighter and make it an energy sniper. The weapons all get stripped out for twin PPCs. That's it. No armor or heat sink changes, just lasers out and PPCs in. We're done here- though not as well-done as your pilot will be after a few turns of firing. Sixteen heat sinks don't really do the job here- you need to essentially fire a 2-1-2-1 pattern, and even then you'll need to keep an eye on things. This was just not a good idea, and I can't suggest it as a PPC-sniper option if you have other options out there like the Catapult-K or just a regular old Warhammer.


"JAZZERCISE!!!"

Whether due to the 4D being as good as it was, or just the scarcity of the design as time went on, we don't really have a lot of other variants until the Clan invasion era, when Star League lostech started to improve designs across the Inner Sphere... to some extent or other, at least. The Ostsol being no exception, we get the OTL-5M as our debut model in the era. And immediately there's a big change in that we have an XL engine. I'm on record as being good with an XL, if it allows the Mech to do things it otherwise wouldn't be capable of. Here, we... ah, didn't REALLLY do that though, if we're being honest. The lighter engine freed up an enormous amount of weight, which went into making all six lasers pulse models. That's a hefty loss of range capability in favor of accuracy bonuses, but the Mech is far more reliant now on closing into knife-fighting ranges, where that armor is going to get worked over a lot more than before- and it didn't get any changes at all. It DID get an anti-missile system installed in the right torso, with the ammo on the other side for some reason, so that's a help against SRMs and the like, but the machine now has an XL engine and a small bomb mounted with it (no CASE!), so... crud. Our heat sinks got upgraded, though, so we now sink enough heat to fire all four forward guns without any heat issues. It's a sidways upgrade at best, and I've never been able to warm up to it- personally, I'd rather keep the old lasers and engine, and just upgrade the heat sinks, maybe switch to ferro, just... not this.

OTL-6D comes next, but we wait until the FedCom Civil War is under way for it to debut. Reeking of FedSun design philosophy of that era, we find that the Mech keeps the XL engine of the 5M, but took my earlier advice and went with ferro-fibrous plating, increasing the armor in places like the legs and... arms... which still don't have anything in them, but I guess the 'ablative armor' arm concept is just tougher now. The heat sinks are still doubles, but have dropped to only 14 of them. The twin ER large lasers, then are a great sniper weapon that uses those heat sinks' capability up nicely, and allows the speedy heavy to rapidly move to good long-distance firing positions. But wait- that's not all, because the handy little sniper has a targeting computer to make those guns more accurate! NOW we're talking! But in case you like to get up close, the 6D has another trick up its sleeve- a close-range battery consisting of two ER medium, two medium pulse, and two small pulse lasers, all also using that computer (and all flipped forward, no more rear guns!). That would be muscle enough to worry an opponent, but the Triple-Strength Myomer means that the heat from all that makes the Ostsol into an angry lunatic, throwing massive punches and kicks to boot- and remember, nothing in the arms... This is a great dual-role Mech, equally at home as a sniper or brawler, and should be a staple of any Davion player's bag of tricks. Genuinely impressive.

Interestingly, the 6D was one of TWO Davion models to come out around the same time during the Civil War. The other, the OTL-5D, is intended to be an upgrade of the original-flavor 4D, refitting those old stalwarts. We again see ferro-fibrous replace the original armor, though not to the extent on its cousin. The forward lasers remain the same as ever, as do the heat sinks. The weight savings of pulling the rear lasers goes into a quintet of RL-10 systems to give the machine a massive gut-punch of a salvo... once. This is a very odd weapon to see installed on a Great House machine, particularlyl since I'm not aware of other Davion Mechs bothering with rockets at all. Controversially, the Taurians noted a similarity to one of their similar-era Ostroc variants, which I'm sure kept Victor awake at night. All in all, I'm not a rocket fan, so I'm not a big fan of this in this era- it's not terrible, it just also isn't going to be a game-changer in a world of mid3060s tech. If you have them in your FedSun forces, they're in for a tough day- though they work fine against the kind of things you'd see on pirate patrols on the edge of the Periphery. Handy too for lower-class merc units.


"Oh boy, here I go Ost-ing again!"

Marik, meanwhile, built their own version in the mid-'60s, and it's exactly what you expect out of Marik at this point- cram on LGRs whether it makes sense or not. Enter the OTL-7M, and immediately we can say this- if you don't like the light Gauss rifle, you're in for a bad day. Standard armor is beefed up a little by using endo-steel plating, an XL engine is a no-brainer, we're down to ten double heat sinks... as noted, each side torso packs an LGR, with a single ton of ammo each being plenty enough for both. Four ER medium lasers tax the heat sinks a tad, but not unmanageably so, and giving the Mech a nasty mid-range sting as the enemy advances past optimal rifle range. It's... if you like LGRs you're in luck, and if not you'll hate it. As with most Marik designs, it works best as part of a team, with one of these providing good support to LRM-heavy designs, covering for TAG-carrying smaller units, etc... one can't help but wonder, in the IlClan era, if anyone took an old 7M and popped in Clan Gauss guns...

Like Davion, Marik decided to double up in the Civil War era though, with one wondering how much of that was prodded by the Blakist cancer growing within the League at the time. The result was their second version, the OTL-8M. This time they went in a very interesting direction, bumping the Mech's speed to 6/9. A PPC provides long-range power, a battery of pulse lasers like the old 5M gives close-range muscle with an ER medium and ER small to boot, and the TSM from the 6D making a surprise appearance. It feels like a return to form, using speed to dash in under cofer of a modest-ranged energy assault, then using close-range laser barrages to shred the target. As such, this works well- the new speed, particularly augmented by the TSM, allows for lightning-fast attacks, though the eleven double heat sinks are a little tricky to manage well. But, like the 6D, the arms are free for punching, so... go nuts!

As the Civil War died down, the nations of the Inner Sphere took a deep breath, collected themselves, and prepared for what was certain to be an era of peace, prosperity, and- nah, the Jihad gave everyone the punch in the gut they probably deserved, and as before the Ostsol was thrust into the fire. The OTL-8D again carries a hefty Davion musk to it, this time the result of their beloved light autocannon/targeting computer combo. I've never liked LACs, so we're off to a rough start here, but I'll acknowledge the utility of being able to play with all kinds of neat toys in the ammo bins. Two LAC-5s are fed by four tons of ammo, so go nuts with those toys, while the computer makes them more accurate. A single light PPC and two ER medium lasers form the backup weapons. The machine is made more survivable by a combination of a light engine, CASE for the ammo bins kept next door, and heavy ferro armor giving it a surprisingly tough shell to break through to begin with. The pilot would probably throw his hands up in celebration if not for being stuffed in a small cockpit. Ten DHS keep it running cool for the most part. It's not a bad Mech, I suppose, if you like LACs, but much like the LGRs on the 7M, you'll find it lacking if you're not a fan.

It appears Davion planned again to debut two variants at roughly the same time, and we find a new manufacturer in the Draconis March... just in time for it to get conquered by Kurita. Doh! The OST-8E then likely was found by Draconis Combine warriors to be a nice little boon to their war efforts. XL and standard Ferro, 17 DHS, all of that is pretty pedestrian at this point, but X-Pulse laser tech, THAT'S new. Two large and two medium are installed in the classic side-torso positions, with the heat sinks desperately trying to deal with their ferocious heat. A pair of ER small lasers are mounted in the old CT-rear location as well. Being that these have a similar range profile to the old 4D's battery, this feels like home- but that heat is ROUGH if you're not careful. This pairs nicely with MRM-heavy units for range bracket purposes.

A basic change to the 8E, the OST-8E3 is the same Mech, but with TSM thrown in to take advantage of that waste heat. It's obviously an upgrade, so if you get to pick, use it. Not much more to be said- the myomers don't cost any weight or anything, so we don't lose anything from the 8E, we just get angry when we get hot. Jump in, heat up, and slap a Nova Cat.

Whether distaste for them, supply issues, or just not wanting to deal with the heat, the DCMS soon was building a second 'side-upgrade' to the 8E with a more classic feel. Looking like they took some cues from the 6F, the OST-8F jams on twin ER PPCs in place of the X-pulse battery. The fast-heavy PPC sniper returns, but this time 18 double heat sinks allow it to fire both guns without being miserable afterwards! Four ER medium lasers back that up, in the classic places- one in each side with the PPCs, two in the center-rear. It's... honestly for its era it feels a little bland, really, like there's nothing new going on here that we couldn't have done in 3050. That doesn't make it a bad Mech, of course- life is miserable under fire from these- but it's interesting that the Combine felt like going old-school like this after capturing a line that was producing an X-pulse lunatic like the 8E.

Good god, are we done yet? Because I really need to go make some dinner and- PLEASE, CONTINUE... right, cattle prod is still there. OK, ok. We have post-Jihad Ostsols as well. Happy now?

Kong is back, though they took another beating and had to rebuild- this company had it rough, folks. The OTL-9R is their return, and it's... weird. Remember how we made a perfectly good fast heavy? Kong here slowed it down. Waaaay down. 3/5 is the new speed, right up there with the Atlas and Stalker. Okaaaay... TSM allows us a bust of 4/6, so that's nice, but what are you guys up to over there? A standard fusion engine returns, with a heavy gyro backing it for extra durability. 14 DHS try to keep up with the weapons, which has a few familiar faces. A standard large laser feels almost antique in 3077, but it's parked in the center, with a snub-nose PPC, a heavy PPC, an ER medium, and an ER small all joining it for a ferocious barrage. The fun continues with a C3 slave system helping to guide others' weapons better as you go in to brawl, but with the speedy rushes of other versions in mind it's hard to really love this one- it gets left behind too easily in mobile battles like we see in this era, and ends up being a brawler that can't get into range to brawl. So... why bother?



A version that debuts just as the Jihad is ending, the OTL-9M is a major variant of the 8M, and as such it's familiar. The engine bump to 6/9 the Davions had tried is here, with MASC boosting it as fast as 12 at a run for brief periods- now THAT'S a fast heavy! The weapons are the classic mid-to-short battery, with an ER large holding court until the snub-nose PPC, two ER mediums, and medium pulse laser all get into range- which won't be long. Endo AND Ferro allow for the engine upgrade, but probably  makes for a pain to keep maintained with spare parts. Finally, a Guardian ECM system makes for a handy way to screw with enemy electronics- and as the Blakists had shown the utility time and again of C3i, and assorted FWL factions were now looking sideways at each other with hordes of treats like Narc beacons and LRM barrages, that's not a bad idea. Pretty good Mech here- the speed is unexpected, even in this era.

And because they can't leave well enough alone, we get a final look at the old classic in the IlClan era, courtesy of Clan Sea Fox. The Ostsol C is a pretty interesting design, one that could have simply been a straigh upgrade of the lasers on one of the older models to ERs, we're done, everyone off to the pub. Instead though, the Foxes built something fun. Twin ER large lasers backed by a targeting computer is familiar enough, but where the mediums could have become ERs, the side torso ones instead Improved Heavy mediums. Oh lord. Hefty punch at short ranges is miserable stuff. The CT lasers are ERs, and like the old days are rear-mounted. The armor is from the original 4D, though, so... don't expect for this to survive. It'll cause mayhem on the way out, but it's just too thin-skinned in this era to stand up to real punishment.

BUT BROTHER HELLBIE, ARE YOU FORGETTING THE CUSTO-

NO, I am not. I simply hadn't gotten there yet. Yes, we have a few one-off models, and honestly with Kong's near-destruction in the Succession Wars (and again in the Jihad), it's likely there were a lot of others we just haven't seen out there- cannibalize a couple of wrecks to get a relatively-healthy machine running again, but the large laser on the left side is busted, just cram in three mediums and a couple of heat sinks, that kind of thing. But we know of three one-offs, so briefly:

The personal ride of one Konami Maki of the Deiron Regulars, the OTL-5M Maki started life as a 4D prior to being upgraded. The only differences are some rearranging of the lasers. Whateer you thought of the 5M, this is no different at the end of the day, and wasn't worth me getting cattle-prodded for your amusement.

OTL-4D Ragnar is, unsurprisingly, the Mech driven by Ragnar Magnusson, hero of the Rasalhague uprising. His 4D swapped the rear lasers to fire forward, and if you like to charge the enemy the way he did, that's probably a good move- like I said earlier, those rear lasers aren't going to do more than scar the enemy that cored your backside out anyway, as thin as the armor is back there. I like the upgrade, though it does mean being even more wary of the heat sinks.

Finally, OTL-4D Woo is another simple swap from a Sgt. Lynn Woo. So... I won't lie, I don't have a lot of info on this one- my PDF of Combat Manual: Kurita doesn't actually load properly. Apparently, upgrades to ER and pulse weapons, along with DHS, improve it dramatically (presumably ER large only, since the Inner Sphere wasn't making the medium and small versions by this point yet), but embarrassingly I can't give much better info on this one at the moment.

So. Ostsol. Most versions are quick for their size, most versions lack ammo-based weapons, most want to run up and get in your face, and there's just enough versions that DON'T follow that paradigm to keep you on your toes in case you get complacent. The classic has soldiered on long past the death of its factory- a couple of times, really- and survivors are still around kicking by the IlClan era somehow. Chime in with stories, post variants over in the Design Forum, have a blast!
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17thRecon

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #1 on: 24 September 2024, 19:34:52 »
Thanks a million; this was long awaited. After reading over the variants, a few of them look like they could be interesting, but the original just strikes me as a great standard heavy, especially for Merc style campaign. Simple, fast for a 3025 era heavy,  “extra armor” (not much of a big deal if this guy goes without arms), and an all energy/no ammo load out, seems like it would make life easy for a quartermaster.

I’d like to try the 7M; it goes against the whole energy boat fast skirmisher/brawler mold of the original, but something about it makes me think it would be fun.

I wonder what would happen with the original 4D and basically kept everything the same but added an SRM4 to one of the side torsos? Strange no one had tried that… 🤔 🤔 🤔 😜
« Last Edit: 24 September 2024, 19:37:18 by 17thRecon »

Starfury

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #2 on: 24 September 2024, 19:36:40 »
The Ostol is one of my favorite cavalry units, and it's become a solid performer with most variants. The Clan Invasion 5M suffers from obvious FASAengineering, but the Project Phoenix and later era variants solve that problem nicely. The use of TSM combined with a energy heavy loadout actually gives Marik some nice things, and the 8R is designed as an anchor to a gunline.  The 7M Ostol is a bit surprising since we already have the 7M Rifleman for dual light Gauss and ER ML spam, but what's 3060s to 3070s Marik without light Gauss platforms?

All in all a nice review Hellbie. Hopefully the cattle prod didn't hurt too much.

Luciora

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #3 on: 24 September 2024, 20:04:15 »
Fun read!

Hellraiser

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #4 on: 24 September 2024, 20:16:36 »
So. Good Mech, despite expectations. Variants? You betcha. It's a 3025-era design, so get comfy, there's plenty to talk about.


OTL-5M as our debut model in the era. And immediately there's a big change in that we have an XL engine. I'm on record as being good with an XL, if it allows the Mech to do things it otherwise wouldn't be capable of. Here, we... ah, didn't REALLLY do that though, if we're being honest. The lighter engine freed up an enormous amount of weight, which went into making all six lasers pulse models. That's a hefty loss of range capability in favor of accuracy bonuses, but the Mech is far more reliant now on closing into knife-fighting ranges, where that armor is going to get worked over a lot more than before- and it didn't get any changes at all. It DID get an anti-missile system installed in the right torso, with the ammo on the other side for some reason, so that's a help against SRMs and the like, but the machine now has an XL engine and a small bomb mounted with it (no CASE!), so... crud. Our heat sinks got upgraded, though, so we now sink enough heat to fire all four forward guns without any heat issues. It's a sidways upgrade at best, and I've never been able to warm up to it- personally, I'd rather keep the old lasers and engine, and just upgrade the heat sinks, maybe switch to ferro, just... not this.

OTL-6D comes next, but we wait until the FedCom Civil War is under way for it to debut. Reeking of FedSun design philosophy of that era, we find that the Mech keeps the XL engine of the 5M, but took my earlier advice and went with ferro-fibrous plating, increasing the armor in places like the legs and... arms... which still don't have anything in them, but I guess the 'ablative armor' arm concept is just tougher now. The heat sinks are still doubles, but have dropped to only 14 of them. The twin ER large lasers, then are a great sniper weapon that uses those heat sinks' capability up nicely, and allows the speedy heavy to rapidly move to good long-distance firing positions. But wait- that's not all, because the handy little sniper has a targeting computer to make those guns more accurate! NOW we're talking! But in case you like to get up close, the 6D has another trick up its sleeve- a close-range battery consisting of two ER medium, two medium pulse, and two small pulse lasers, all also using that computer (and all flipped forward, no more rear guns!). That would be muscle enough to worry an opponent, but the Triple-Strength Myomer means that the heat from all that makes the Ostsol into an angry lunatic, throwing massive punches and kicks to boot- and remember, nothing in the arms... This is a great dual-role Mech, equally at home as a sniper or brawler, and should be a staple of any Davion player's bag of tricks. Genuinely impressive.

....
This is a very odd weapon to see installed on a Great House machine, particularlyl since I'm not aware of other Davion Mechs bothering with rockets at all.
....

Finally, OTL-4D Woo is another simple swap from a Sgt. Lynn Woo. So... I won't lie, I don't have a lot of info on this one- my PDF of Combat Manual: Kurita doesn't actually load properly. Apparently, upgrades to ER and pulse weapons, along with DHS, improve it dramatically (presumably ER large only, since the Inner Sphere wasn't making the medium and small versions by this point yet), but embarrassingly I can't give much better info on this one at the moment.

1.  Great Article JHB!

2.  Great googlie mooglie that is a lot of variants.

The basic model was always a nice ride in 3025.

The 5M was just... SO MUCH LET DOWN.
Why oh why couldn't it have been something simple, like.... oh, actually, like that potential Woo model you mentioned?
Something like 2 ERLL, 2 MPL in the front & don't touch the Rear Mediums?   Pay for that w/ 3 DHS & tack on an extra ton of Armor & Swap to Ferro?
Simple Basic, gives range & accuracy, no XL weakness, ugh.  Hopefully the Woo is something close to that, sounds like its on the way towards it at least.


The 6D is......... my god it's possibly the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, in an Ostsol body I mean...


I'm not convinced the 5D was supposed to be Davion, it comes across as another Marion Mod of old tech models.
For other Davion Rocket Launchers.......... check out the Jager-6H,  it's oh so purty.
Note: that one is just the mech, MUL shows its Periphery faction even if the mech is Davion.

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MarauderD

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #5 on: 24 September 2024, 21:06:17 »
The 6D is fun to use.  I like the look of the new model and look forward to painting one up! 

garhkal

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #6 on: 25 September 2024, 00:27:42 »
Always had a love-hate relationship with them.  Love the mini, but hate when in game...  either they die swiftly when i am running one, OR those i face off against take a LOT to kill..
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worktroll

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #7 on: 25 September 2024, 01:20:53 »
Ironically, the Ostsol (and Ostroc) was the mapping of the Macross Regult Tactical Pod to Battletech.

Take one (expensive) lead Ostsol mini. Remove the arms. Put the legs on backwards. Voila!

I've always had a soft spot for the Ostsol (less so the Ostroc), as a speedy brawler. Yes, some of the later versions are ... curious. But I've had great success with the 5M, again like pretty much any Marik design it needs friends, but can be a great supporting actor to Orions, Tempests, and the like.
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Frabby

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #8 on: 25 September 2024, 02:51:01 »
When discussing the name, you somehow forgot to mention Ostmann Industries on Terra as the designer. Kong Interstellar merely licensed the designs from them.

Funny enough, in the real world Ostmann is a brand for kitchen herbs here in Germany and you can already clearly discern the basic design philosophy of their products with the "oddly-curvaceous armor".
« Last Edit: 25 September 2024, 02:52:53 by Frabby »
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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #9 on: 25 September 2024, 08:14:35 »
The 5M does have a saving grace for Invasion era games. At 1,245 BV it's dirt cheep. Use it like a big medium.
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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #10 on: 25 September 2024, 09:51:47 »
The 5M does have a saving grace for Invasion era games. At 1,245 BV it's dirt cheep. Use it like a big medium.

Ehhhhh... I mean, I see where you're going with it, but while it IS cheap, it's also not good for that BV. Uninspiring armor, XL motor, weapons that can reach almost as far as across a gas station parking lot... it's cheap, but there's way better ways to spend that BV if you really want to. It's not useless- it can be a useful Mech as a bodyguard for a Cyclops or something like that- but it's just... I guess not MY thing, I shouldn't speak for others' style.
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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #11 on: 25 September 2024, 10:41:21 »
Ehhhhh... I mean, I see where you're going with it, but while it IS cheap, it's also not good for that BV. Uninspiring armor, XL motor, weapons that can reach almost as far as across a gas station parking lot... it's cheap, but there's way better ways to spend that BV if you really want to. It's not useless- it can be a useful Mech as a bodyguard for a Cyclops or something like that- but it's just... I guess not MY thing, I shouldn't speak for others' style.

I know its faction specific, but for that BV you're talking a WVR-6k, which is something I've never regretted using.  The XL engine is just such a hard sell on a 5/8 60 tonner.

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #12 on: 25 September 2024, 12:37:48 »
I guess not MY thing, I shouldn't speak for others' style.
I actually think the BIGGEST failing of that entire variant, is when they broke up the All Energy layout of 4 front/2 back & added the AMS.
I mean, I like AMS, but for the Ostsol.... just... No.
They should have added 1.5 Armor to protect the XL & left the AMS for mechs that weren't designed to be energy raiders.
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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #13 on: 25 September 2024, 13:01:44 »
Yes, I always felt that if you were going to put an XL in it, it should be to kick the speed up to 6/9 like the -8M did.  I'm surprised that they had so few variants that kicked the speed up, as I always thought of this as a cavalry mech.  Maybe someone thought it would overlap too much with the Dragon/Grand Dragon where most of the new variants have increased speed?

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #14 on: 25 September 2024, 13:08:07 »
Yes, I always felt that if you were going to put an XL in it, it should be to kick the speed up to 6/9 like the -8M did.  I'm surprised that they had so few variants that kicked the speed up, as I always thought of this as a cavalry mech.  Maybe someone thought it would overlap too much with the Dragon/Grand Dragon where most of the new variants have increased speed?

In Character....... probably didn't have anyone making a 360XL engine at the time.
Out of Character, meh, the tonnage loss would have left you w/ less guns IIRC.   (I think the 360XL weighs more than the 300SFE)
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smdvogrin

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #15 on: 25 September 2024, 13:21:54 »
In Character....... probably didn't have anyone making a 360XL engine at the time.
Out of Character, meh, the tonnage loss would have left you w/ less guns IIRC.   (I think the 360XL weighs more than the 300SFE)

360XL is 16.5, so you actually save 2.5 tons from the 300 SFE (19.0).

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #16 on: 25 September 2024, 14:06:12 »
6D is excellent, but... fine-tuning heat is a minor pain. If they'd taken a page from the Nightsky and traded a SPL for an er small and small I'd like it so much more.

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #17 on: 25 September 2024, 14:22:17 »
Love the article, JHB! Slight typo here:

"Marik, meanwhile, built their own version in the mid-'60s, and it's exactly what you expect out of Marik at this point- cram on LGRs whether it makes sense or not. Enter the OTL-7M, and immediately we can say this- if you don't like the light Gauss rifle, you're in for a bad day. Standard armor is beefed up a little by using endo-steel plating, an XL engine is a no-brainer, we're down to ten double heat sinks... as noted, each side torso packs an LGR, with a single ton of ammo each being plenty enough for both. Four ER medium lasers tax the heat sinks a tad, but not unmanageably so, and giving the Mech a nasty mid-range sting as the enemy advances past optimal rifle range. It's... if you like LGRs you're in luck, and if not you'll hate it. As with most Marik designs, it works best as part of a team, with one of these providing good support to LRM-heavy designs, covering for TAG-carrying smaller units, etc... one can't help but wonder, in the IlClan era, if anyone took an old 7M and popped in Clan Gauss guns..."

Does the 7M use endo steel structure, or Ferro Fib plating?

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #18 on: 25 September 2024, 14:37:16 »
Yes, I always felt that if you were going to put an XL in it, it should be to kick the speed up to 6/9 like the -8M did.  I'm surprised that they had so few variants that kicked the speed up, as I always thought of this as a cavalry mech.  Maybe someone thought it would overlap too much with the Dragon/Grand Dragon where most of the new variants have increased speed?

OR tap on a masc unit. to take it to 10 speed!
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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #19 on: 25 September 2024, 15:34:05 »
Great article! I always like the whole Ost family, although the Ostroc is still my favorite. It took me a while to get the 7M when it came out, but I've come to like it. It plays just like a 4D - you got your two 8-point hits (with a range boost of 66% over the laser!), followed up by a good amount of medium lasers. Pretty good, all in all.
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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #20 on: 25 September 2024, 15:42:13 »
360XL is 16.5, so you actually save 2.5 tons from the 300 SFE (19.0).
My bad, I had 42T - 21T in my head for some reason. 

Though, its really only 1.5T saved once you pay for the Gyro.
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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #21 on: 25 September 2024, 18:59:04 »

And because they can't leave well enough alone, we get a final look at the old classic in the IlClan era, courtesy of Clan Sea Fox. The Ostsol C is a pretty interesting design, one that could have simply been a straigh upgrade of the lasers on one of the older models to ERs, we're done, everyone off to the pub. Instead though, the Foxes built something fun. Twin ER large lasers backed by a targeting computer is familiar enough, but where the mediums could have become ERs, the side torso ones instead Improved Heavy mediums. Oh lord. Hefty punch at short ranges is miserable stuff. The CT lasers are ERs, and like the old days are rear-mounted. The armor is from the original 4D, though, so... don't expect for this to survive. It'll cause mayhem on the way out, but it's just too thin-skinned in this era to stand up to real punishment.


The armor is now Reflective according to the Rec Guide

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #22 on: 25 September 2024, 21:37:00 »
Return to form!  Funny with insightful review, JadeHellbringer! 

OTL-9R I am most disappointed in, I'm unsure but I think this was intended to be a lemon mech.  Most of these designs were good machines, useful.  I do find having been game a while, that Ostol can be not exciting in it's weapons choices.  I always felt it was best as a cavalry mech, Go fast, shoot big honking lasers.
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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #23 on: 26 September 2024, 12:13:09 »
Always love to see some love for the Ostmann 'mechs.

Only minor correction I'd suggest is for the OTL-4D Ragnar lore. Ragnar Magnussion wasn't involved in any heroic capacity during the Rasalhague uprising, that was his father, Haakon Magnusson, as a resistance leader/politician (not a Mechwarrior).

Ragnar Magnusson was an extremely young, bright-eyed, greenling junior officer in KungsArmé when he had his Ostsol, before getting clubbed and collared by Phelan Kell, then sent off to the bondsman factory for repurposing during the Clan Invasion.

Starfury

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #24 on: 26 September 2024, 19:44:21 »
Well they had to do something to give Rasalhauge a break before it became Teddy Bear central...

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #25 on: 27 September 2024, 00:00:30 »
In Character....... probably didn't have anyone making a 360XL engine at the time.

Grand Dragons were using them, so someone was making a 360 XL.
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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #26 on: 27 September 2024, 16:34:32 »
Great article! I love the Ostsol, especially the various Marik variants. The TSM ones are face-punchers par excellence, with a one in three chance to knock someone's head off every turn they're in belt-buckle-grabbing range. I even like the light Gauss version: the LGRs are basically the old large lasers but with vastly better range and thus accuracy. In pairs they can be surprisingly effective.

One note re: the Ostsol C that the article didn't note: it has reflective armor, so as long as no one gets within melee range or hits you with artillery, it can be much tougher than the raw armor point totals would make you think.


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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #27 on: 27 September 2024, 18:18:55 »
Touche, how did I forget about the GD.
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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #28 on: 29 September 2024, 19:24:00 »
This design's art was also originally switched with the Ostscout in early printings of TRO 3025, leading to considerable debate if not confusion within the player base in the early years. And the OTT eventually got hands where the art lacked them, similar to the Ostroc. Let us just say that TRO 3025 was not kind at all to the Ost-family. The family was arguably introduced as the new 'Mechs in CityTech in 1986--though since 3025 came out in the same year, one imagines it came down to which product you saw on the shelf first. Still, that placement influenced its deployment and use to a considerable degree in its early years within most circles I personally saw or was a part of.

I personally believe that the "Ragnar" sub-variant is just a concession to the players, many of whom were doing it already for years as a gentle homebrew (similar to the Quickdraw, I would posit). Indeed, I played it that way for some time before the first official record sheets came out and I had to go back to the source to realize my error. So, the "Ragnar" is actually how I will always think of Ostsols being situated.
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Motpart

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Re: Motw: Ostsol
« Reply #29 on: 30 September 2024, 15:59:18 »
Quote
I personally believe that the "Ragnar" sub-variant is just a concession to the players, many of whom were doing it already for years as a gentle homebrew (similar to the Quickdraw, I would posit). Indeed, I played it that way for some time before the first official record sheets came out and I had to go back to the source to realize my error. So, the "Ragnar" is actually how I will always think of Ostsols being situated.

Absolutely agree. It's definitely a handy official legitimisation of a common homebrew, under the guise of a simple field refit. Like the Dragons, Quickdraws, Cataphracts and other rear laser IS 'mechs that benefit from cheeky little swaps that otherwise you need to ask for gentlemanly agreements on.

 

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