Author Topic: IS Trooper mechs  (Read 2654 times)

O5P_Ghost

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IS Trooper mechs
« on: 30 September 2024, 16:43:20 »
I've always thought of trooper mech like medium tanks of WW2. Generally 45-50 tons. What do y'all think are troopers?

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #1 on: 30 September 2024, 17:19:22 »
Shadow Hawk, Wolverine.
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MarauderD

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #2 on: 30 September 2024, 17:21:28 »
Would the LCAF consider the Griffin a trooper--even though it is more of a Sniper?

Hellraiser

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #3 on: 30 September 2024, 17:22:48 »
I've always thought of trooper mech like medium tanks of WW2. Generally 45-50 tons. What do y'all think are troopers?

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strangely the Panther (DC)
Agreed, but barely on the Panther, it's just a bit small.

But basically, a "Pocket Heavy" + "Generalist" = Trooper.

Shadow Hawk, Wolverine.
More skirmisher w/ those speeds.
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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #4 on: 30 September 2024, 17:30:44 »
I think of skirmishers as having a more dedicated range bracket that they want to fight at, while troopers are generalists that can do some fighting at every range.
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O5P_Ghost

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #5 on: 30 September 2024, 17:31:23 »
Yeah I was thinking 5/8/5 is too fast for a trooper. 4/6 and all

If the Panther isn't a trooper--what is the DC's trooper mech?
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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #6 on: 30 September 2024, 17:38:29 »
Yeah I was thinking 5/8/5 is too fast for a trooper. 4/6 and all

If the Panther isn't a trooper--what is the DC's trooper mech?

Speed aside:  Wolverine 6K and Dragon for the DCMS, right?

O5P_Ghost

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #7 on: 30 September 2024, 17:56:37 »
Speed aside:  Wolverine 6K and Dragon for the DCMS, right?

I like that. I think it fits the DCMS well
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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #8 on: 30 September 2024, 18:17:08 »
Again, speed aside, the Wolverine-6M would probably be the best fit for the FWLM.  The only 4/6/X medium they have ready access to, that I can think of off the top of my head, is the Centurion and that's not a "flagship" design of theirs.
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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #9 on: 30 September 2024, 18:20:43 »
The DC basically has 2 Troopers, the Dragon & the Panther.
Neither is a medium but both are deployed in massive #s across the DCMS & otherwise fit the bill.
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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #10 on: 30 September 2024, 18:24:10 »
The only 4/6/X medium they have ready access to, that I can think of off the top of my head, is the Centurion and that's not a "flagship" design of theirs.

They don't produce it. 
The Centurion Factories are in the FS.

They do however have a 4/6 Medium in the Hunchback, which, while the base model isn't much of a trooper, a lot of the variants could qualify for sure.


They also make the T-Bolt & Orion which while not Mediums are some very serious Heavy-Troopers with those "Gun 4 Everything" load outs.

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #11 on: 30 September 2024, 18:29:49 »
Yeah I was thinking 5/8/5 is too fast for a trooper. 4/6 and all

If the Panther isn't a trooper--what is the DC's trooper mech?

I think that depends on era. 4/6 is decent for 3rd SW, but by 3050+, a medium or even light below 5/8/X is really becoming slow, worryingly so for lights and low-end mediums. In my opinion, at least.

But for IntroTech, I'll nominate several Hunchback variants - 4H (AC/10), 4N (AC/5 + LRMs) and even the 4J with its 20 LRM tubes and 5 medium laser.
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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #12 on: 30 September 2024, 18:40:01 »
a medium or even light below 5/8/X is really becoming slow, worryingly so for lights
This.
The 3050 Valkyrie is a nice little upgrade, but, the same 5/8/5 speed means that against the clans, your going POP very quickly.
Raven at 6/9/0 is in the same boat, as is the Panther at 4/6/4.

The greater range, accuracy, & speed of Clan Heavies just made IS Lights that were "Light Trooper/Support" instead of "Light Fast Recon" an almost useless unit type in 3050+.

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #13 on: 30 September 2024, 21:44:50 »
Draconis Combine won't like it, but I like it:
Gladiator
55-tonner, 5/8/5, 9.5 tons armor, 1 PPC, 1 SRM-6, 2 ML, 13 SHS

It is classified as a Skirmisher, but I could see a formation of these Mechs being used for either defense or offense as needed.

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #14 on: 01 October 2024, 09:17:07 »
Then what would be the trooper Mech of the Free Worlds League? Would they have a distinct Mech for that? Distinct in the case of being basically symbolic with the League (like the enforcer is for the Fedsuns or Vindicator for the Confederation) Maybe the Trebuchet? Or the Wolverine?
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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #15 on: 01 October 2024, 09:18:28 »
For the FWL, my heart says Orion but my head says WVR-6M. 

17thRecon

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #16 on: 01 October 2024, 09:26:47 »
Then what would be the trooper Mech of the Free Worlds League? Would they have a distinct Mech for that? Distinct in the case of being basically symbolic with the League (like the enforcer is for the Fedsuns or Vindicator for the Confederation) Maybe the Trebuchet? Or the Wolverine?

I know the OP says a trooper should “generally be 45-50 tons”, but FWL trooper would be the Hermes II.

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #17 on: 01 October 2024, 09:58:03 »
I think it would be more fair to say the FWL doesn't have a best trooper 'mech. It has signature machines sure, the Hermes II, the Orion. But 4/6 medium, not any one really. As of FM: FWL the most common FWL regimental makeup was 1 heavy battalion and 2 medium battalions. We see a lot of medium machines.

I think the FWL was meant to represent a mirror image of the DC, which is said to dislike medium 'mechs. The FWL embraced them. But not of 1 specific model like a Centurion or Enforcer. Instead it has a slew of different mediums classes across the spectrum, many of which are more thought of as generic machines common across the Inner Sphere. Or as FWL variants of common machines seen elsewhere.

FWL units often require teamwork because, historically, the individual machines they use aren't that powerful alone. A lance of pure Hermes II would have severe limitations. So would a lance of Hunchbacks. Put a Hermes II, Hunchback, Orion and a Wolverine together and you start to get a sense of what a typical FWL medium lance for much of their history looked like. If you want to lean lighter/faster/more missiles, you can swap out the Hunchback for a Trebuchet, or later eras, an Apollo.

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #18 on: 01 October 2024, 10:21:47 »
Looking at what the League industrial base actually manufactured in the pre-Helm Succession War:

The Hermes II and Vulcan are too lightly armed.  The Trebuchet is too lightly armored.  The Hunchback is too short-ranged.  The Cicada is too fast.  It really comes down to Phoenix Hawk or one of the 55 ton Trio, and the WVR-6M is probably the best bet.  It's maneuverable, well armored, and can fight at multiple ranges with hole punchers and crit-seekers.  It's the only one of the above-listed 'Mechs I'd willingly pit one-on-one against an Enforcer or Vindicator with any expectation of victory.
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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #19 on: 01 October 2024, 10:26:15 »
What about all the Hunchback variants the FWL builds?
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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #20 on: 01 October 2024, 14:29:34 »
The Phoenix Hawk, Wolverine, & Hermes-II are not Troopers.

They are Medium-Scouts &/or Skirmishers.

As noted, the FWL "Troopers/HeavyTroopers" are the SwayBacks (with LighterACs/LRMs), the T-Bolt, & the Orion.

The Wolverine-6M is a GREAT medium, it's just not a "Trooper" in the classic definition.

It's not something I see pairs/lances of moving in a line across the battlefield.

It's a Lance Leader of Fast Mediums & Lights that skirts the edge of the battlefield to harries the flanks or strike into the rear area.

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17thRecon

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #21 on: 01 October 2024, 15:08:04 »
I think of trooper as “generic and available”; Hermes II has the numbers in the FWL, and like previously stated, they like combinations. The Hermes II can be a heavy part of a light Lance/company, or the light part of a heavier Lance/company. It’s able to do anti-mech, anti-vehicle, and anti-infantry work. It won’t generally win a standup fight, but as part of a team it can contribute effectively. Not saying that it’s the “best” trooper, it’s just available in numbers to FWL to fill in formations. Again, just my two cents/ head cannon stuff going; nothing based in-universe. The other troopers mentioned (Enforcer, Vindicator, etc) just have weight on the Hermes II to give them either better armor or weapons or both, generally making them better at the “trooper” role.

Then what would be the trooper Mech of the Free Worlds League? Would they have a distinct Mech for that? Distinct in the case of being basically symbolic with the League (like the enforcer is for the Fedsuns or Vindicator for the Confederation) Maybe the Trebuchet? Or the Wolverine?

I based my response to this question: for the FWL, the Hermes II is the symbolic mech. I think back to the original Mechwarrior book where towards the back they had something like signature Mechs for each House. Steiner had the Zeus and Commando, Liao had the Vindicator, Davion had the Enforcer and Valkyrie (iirc), Kurita had the Panther and Dragon (again, iirc), and the FWL had the Hermes II.

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #22 on: 01 October 2024, 16:00:46 »
The other troopers mentioned (Enforcer, Vindicator, etc) just have weight on the Hermes II to give them either better armor or weapons or both, generally making them better at the “trooper” role.
I wouldn't even say its the weight, after all, each 5 ton braket often only nets you a 0.5-2t of "useful" mass.
The real issue is the engine speed.
The Hermes-II is 50% faster than the typical trooper, so it just doesn't have the firepower because it has speed.
Which is why I classify it as a Striker/Skirmisher v/s a "Trooper"


Quote
I based my response to this question: for the FWL, the Hermes II is the symbolic mech. I think back to the original Mechwarrior book where towards the back they had something like signature Mechs for each House. Steiner had the Zeus and Commando, Liao had the Vindicator, Davion had the Enforcer and Valkyrie (iirc), Kurita had the Panther and Dragon (again, iirc), and the FWL had the Hermes II.
Yep, all those were mentioned in the MW1E RPG Rulebook.
Because each was unique to & solely produced by said nation.

Oddly enough, the Centurion is fluffed as the MOST Common medium in the AFFS while the Enforcer is 25% of Mediums in the AFFS which gives you a 26%+ figure for the Centurion.  (IIRC)

All are "Common" to their factions.  And if "Common" is part of your definition of "Trooper" then I can see using that.
For me it isn't, but, I can see why you might.
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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #23 on: 01 October 2024, 16:58:28 »
I'm finding the idea that a trooper has to be 4/6 kind of silly. There are few Medium 'Mechs at 4/6 in the Succession Wars era, and even fewer in later eras. If it can hold it's own in a mid-range slugging match and be moderately mobile, that's a bonus, not a disqualification.

I definitely see the Wolverine and things like the Steiner large laser Griffin as troopers.


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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #24 on: 01 October 2024, 17:03:21 »
I read 'FWL trooper' and my mind immediately jumps to the Guillotine. Just a bit outside the medium weight-class I know...
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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #25 on: 01 October 2024, 17:57:08 »
I'm finding the idea that a trooper has to be 4/6 kind of silly. There are few Medium 'Mechs at 4/6 in the Succession Wars era, and even fewer in later eras. If it can hold it's own in a mid-range slugging match and be moderately mobile, that's a bonus, not a disqualification.

I definitely see the Wolverine and things like the Steiner large laser Griffin as troopers.

I googled & found entire reddit threads on the subject so it's not just here.

Most people seem to assume its a "Generalist" with "Guns at every Range" but not "Specialized" in any way. 
Blah, Basic, Boring, Jack of all Ranges...


The Griffin-S is probably my single favorite 3025 mech, but I wouldn't call it a "Trooper".

I mean, CAN a Griffin-S be a trooper?  Yeah, but can also be a Striker/Skirmisher.   Not sure a Hunchback can say that.

So maybe what the OP is asking is what is a "PURE-Trooper".   None-Multi-Role?

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
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"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #26 on: 01 October 2024, 17:59:11 »
I read 'FWL trooper' and my mind immediately jumps to the Guillotine. Just a bit outside the medium weight-class I know...

Ah, a Heavy that is near & dear to my heart, possibly my most owned mech mini with..... 9? of them.  IIRC.  4 Metal, 3 CGL, 2-Metal-IIC

But I see it as a "Close Assault Specialist" v/s "Trooper".

I love the Guilli, but, I wouldn't ask it to be part of my fire line out at 18 hexes.  I might ask that of a Centurion though.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #27 on: 01 October 2024, 18:05:43 »
Let's also note the Centurion was a Marik mech first

Troopers for 3025 to 3039
Panther
Thunderbolt
Griffin 1S
Wolverine 6K
Wolverine 6M
Wolverine 6R
Orion
Enforcer
Crusader
Battlemaster
Kintaro
Thug
Hatamoto Chi
Highlander
Stalker
Marauder
Vindicator
Cataphract
Shadow Hawk




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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #28 on: 01 October 2024, 18:08:51 »
When thinking trooper I always think Hunchback and Swayback variants. Something about it's many variants gives it that flavor

The Swayback 4N is a basically a medium weight Orion.

The Trebuchet particularly the 7K could also be a contender as it's basically a medium weight Banshee.

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Re: IS Trooper mechs
« Reply #29 on: 01 October 2024, 18:17:01 »
For me the FWL signature main line combat 'mech has always been the Orion. During the Succession Wars, yes other Successor States had some Orions, but only the FWL was able to manufacture them. So they deployed a lot of them. It's the machine that is front-and-center on the cover of FM: FWL. It's the first machine the FWL thought of to make an Omni. Even in the post-Dark Age eras, you see a lot of Orions in common placements on FWL (or former-FWL faction) RATs. That's in the face of all the new BattleMech designs that have proliferated. It's not hard to conceptualize a lot of typical FWL 'mech companies that have any heavy-class 'mechs at all having at least one Orion.

It just also happens to be famous for a lot of non-FWL famous mechwarriors who have also used it over the centuries. Most notably Kerensky. I think this fact distracts from the fact that the Orions that are left are so concentrated in the FWL.

The Hermes II is definitely a signature FWL design as well, not denying that. But I think it's more famous for being a scout than a combatant anywhere near the main battle line.

 

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