Author Topic: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?  (Read 2041 times)

Trailblazer

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Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« on: 05 October 2024, 10:22:22 »
I find it a little weird that MechWarrior is treated as an enlisted rank by all the factions.  In the universe it seems similar in status, eliteness and exclusivity to contemporary fighter pilots.  But 20th and 21st Century fighter pilots are always commissioned officers.

I guess you could say it should be equivalent to a tank commander, which is a senior sergeant in the present-day US?  But fighter pilot feels more analogous to MechWarrior to me.  Like maybe a standard MechWarrior should be a "second lieutenant" and a lance commander a "first lieutenant."

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #1 on: 05 October 2024, 11:26:21 »
In US Army Aviation, all pilots are at least Warrant Officers, which is the paradigm that makes the most sense to me (but then, I was in Army Aviation, so I’m biased).  But Warrant makes sense because they’re technical experts in their field (like flying helicopters) but somewhat outside the chain of command per se.  I mean, technically a W-1 outranks any NCO, but you’ll never see a W-1 commanding anything more than the people on his aircraft, and the emphasis is very much on technical expertise in piloting, not on climbing the ranks to positions of greater authority as it is for commissioned officers.  I fact, I knew commissioned pilots officers as high as a full colonel who gave up their commission to become warrant officers because they were tired of the rat race of Army politics and just wanted to fly.  As intense and particular a discipline as piloting a Battlemech is, having pilots be at least warrant officers makes sense to me, rather than having situations where an infantry platoon sergeant doesn’t want to take orders from a mechwarrior sergeant.  Likewise, it conforms to the neo-feudal idea of the knight-mechwarrior, where being a mechwarrior and being a noble are essentially synonymous, and having someone be at once a noble and an enlisted man just doesn’t make a lot of sense.  Using warrants (as, sadly, almost no IS militaries do) allows you to have noble mechwarriors who are highly skilled in that craft, without that automatically leading to their being promoted into command ranks they aren’t qualified for, or being incensed at being passed over for promotion and staying a lieutenant for thirty years despite their combat record.  “Yes, yes, Baron Johnson, you have a stellar combat record.  That’s why we’re promoting you from CW-3 to CW-4.  No, you haven’t met all of the required pre-reqs for OCS, if you want a commission you’ll have to go to an academy.  No, you just want to fight? Yes, that’s fine.”
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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #2 on: 05 October 2024, 13:26:38 »
I was in the 2 shop of Army aviation units for 10 years, so the "MechWarriors are mostly WOs with officers in charge, and the enlisted are the service & support shops" was also the most appropriate structure I could also come up with.  I can sort of see senior NCOs in militia units getting their own ride, but in line units?  WOs and academy grads only.
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Trailblazer

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #3 on: 05 October 2024, 19:50:55 »
Ah good points, I hadn't thought of warrant officer ranks!

butchbird

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #4 on: 05 October 2024, 20:09:05 »
Thought I could give a well cut reply on this, but a quick research to confirm my faulty memory advises me not to say too much. But having actually looked through this, I'll add a few things none the less.

As its clear mechwarriors are best compared, in the 20th/21st century, to fighter pilots and that aristocrats still held a huge deal of prestige during WWI (Ah, the woes, complaints and hatred of the russian "warrior lesser aristocracy" (hard to translate this one to my liking) for the changing times, but I digress), something has to be pointed out concerning that war.

Fact is, back in the early days of aerial warfare, NCOs made up a huge chunk of the fighter pilots. Even reknowned aces spent a large part of that war as sergeants (or ranks "around that"), though they'd often get commissioned once they "earned enough prestige". If I'm not mistaken, WWII also had many NCOs as pilots.

I'd argue that, while the BTU is in the future and would be affected by developments in the structure of the military and all that, "knights of the air" are more closely related to mechwarriors then F-22 pilots would be, as far as the whole feel & vibe is concerned and hence what is aimed to be presented.

Another thing is how mechwarrior training programs have been described. If I remember well the Marik Handbook rundown on military academies, the fact that one of these academies only churned out mechwarriors with officer training was a big deal, implying that most aren't schooled in the art of commanding. Going against this conception would require a fair bit of retconing or contorsions.

But this does not necessarly mean that a infantry captain would think ill of being ordered around by a lesser rank mechwarrior in many cases. Prestige is a very real thing. Mechwarriors (and aerospace pilots, supposedly, though they get much less screen time) are simply superior to any other branch. It's a well known and integrated fact. Being recognized as the nation's elite would have quite the weight on the battlefield, no matter the rank.
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BrianDavion

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #5 on: 06 October 2024, 02:47:24 »
Many sucessor states seem to effectively award their mechwarriors the rank of sergant in the military. the DCMS distinctly does, and the AFFS awards anyone who has graduated the academy the rank of sergent. I suspect this is the case for the Lyrans too, and wouldn't be suprised it it was near universal
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Cannonshop

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #6 on: 06 October 2024, 05:00:26 »
Many sucessor states seem to effectively award their mechwarriors the rank of sergant in the military. the DCMS distinctly does, and the AFFS awards anyone who has graduated the academy the rank of sergent. I suspect this is the case for the Lyrans too, and wouldn't be suprised it it was near universal

I think a lot of it depends on how top-heavy or officer-heavy your military command chains happen to be.  Someone with more recent Army experience than me mentioned that the bottom rank for chopper pilots was Warrant officer, and that's been true for a few decades, but at 51, I remember when the Army got rid their last non-officer/non-Warrant officer pilot ratings-so it wasn't as terribly long ago as you might think, and IS linked to some of the rank inflation we saw in the post-nineteen-seventies military (particularly the post-drawdowns of the early 1990s where there were a LOT more officers with a lot fewer slots after the festival of RIF post Gulf War and pre 9/11.)

That said, 'mechwarrior isn't something you can just fill.  At least, if they're still keeping consistency with the older editions, roughly 1 out of 1000 people have the neural conductivity to use a Neurohelmet, out of those, only a fractoin (depending on harshness of training) will be able to learn to use it, and only a fraction of those, are going to be able to complete the process of learning how to fight as part of an army.

and only a fraction of the ones who can fight, can also lead.

So it makes perfect sense that a fresh-out-of-training 'mechwarrior would be pulling down a Sergeant's pay when they get to the unit-because they're a valuable commodity, but it also makes sense that the pay  doesn't come with the duties.  In the Old days of the army, Specialist rank went all the way up to eight or nine.  NCO pay, but not NCO duties.

This, I think, is the equivalency most of the functionally effective armies in the Inner Sphere and Periphery would default to out of necessity, whatever else they might call it-for some, it may well be just a service so lacking in nco's and officer heavy that 'Sergeant" is sufficient, in others, there may well just be a "Mechwarrior" with an E-rating or equivalent, or some combination of those.

See, the basic difference between an Officer, and an NCO (in services with a strong NCO corps) is that an officer Commands, while an NCO Leads.

You might think those are synonyms, but no, they really aren't.  An NCO's weapon is his Weapon.  An Officer's Weapon is the men under his command, including NCO's.  thus, why in the World War they gave NCO's submachine guns, because they were expected to use them, while officers got a pistol, and if he had to use the pistol, it meant shit had gone horribly wrong.
« Last Edit: 06 October 2024, 05:03:25 by Cannonshop »
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MadCapellan

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #7 on: 06 October 2024, 10:28:00 »
I find it a little weird that MechWarrior is treated as an enlisted rank by all the factions.  In the universe it seems similar in status, eliteness and exclusivity to contemporary fighter pilots.  But 20th and 21st Century fighter pilots are always commissioned officers.

I guess you could say it should be equivalent to a tank commander, which is a senior sergeant in the present-day US?  But fighter pilot feels more analogous to MechWarrior to me.  Like maybe a standard MechWarrior should be a "second lieutenant" and a lance commander a "first lieutenant."

For what it's worth, all Mechwarriors in the Capellan Confederation Armed Forces are commissioned, holding at least the rank of Sao-Wei. Then again, the Lorix Order ascribes an especially high importance to Mechwarriors, so the thought of them taking orders from an armor lance commander would be unthinkable.

Cannonshop

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #8 on: 06 October 2024, 12:47:19 »
For what it's worth, all Mechwarriors in the Capellan Confederation Armed Forces are commissioned, holding at least the rank of Sao-Wei. Then again, the Lorix Order ascribes an especially high importance to Mechwarriors, so the thought of them taking orders from an armor lance commander would be unthinkable.

That MIGHT be a workable explanation for why the CapCon did so...erm...'well' in the previous four succession wars.  "You're a good heavy equipment operator, here, have eleven men to command, whom are also really good heavy equipment operators and angling for your job!"
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Hellraiser

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #9 on: 06 October 2024, 13:28:32 »
Every single Academy graduates Sgts from the RPG games.

Many have the option of OCS so then you get Lts.

IIRC I do seem to recall a scenario book (Rolling Thunder?) where a FWL MW was specifically called a Corporal, but that is an exception.

In the FS they do have their "Training Battalions" where there are Privates/PFC/Corporals, but again, those are an exception where Hanse? set them up as a way to access a talent pool that didn't have the connections to get into an academy.

There is also in the RPGs an option to get sent to MW Training after good performance as another MOS.

Point being, anything LESS than E-5 is going to be the minority of MWs.  And a lot will have been promoted above E-5 over time.

There's also nothing that says its ALL sgts in a Lance under a Lt. 

While the modern military has its "slots/grades" for each TO&E there is nothing to say your BT world might have a scenario where a Sr.LT has a Jt.LT in the same lance.
Or where a Major ends up commanding a Company (IIRC one of the Black Widow scenarios had this against the ELH),  which could leave you with a Captain commanding a lance.
Might not be "common" but it could certainly happen.

I could really see it in things like a newly forming merc unit where your "retirees/ETSers" from Line units are all higher ranking & not fresh from the academy graduates.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #10 on: 06 October 2024, 14:13:55 »
Flashpoint, the FCCW-era novel that details the start of the fighting on Kathil, includes a couple of mechwarrior corporals in the main character’s Kathil CMM company.  This surprises him, as “One of a MechWarrior’s privileges was usually w automatic promotion to sergeant.”  It’s explained that the two of them came up through the militia’s rural recruitment program and hold corporal as a probationary rank until yearly review, when they’ll presumably be promoted.
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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #11 on: 06 October 2024, 14:49:01 »
In another example, the Royal Air Force still had Other Ranks as pilots after World War II, and gave them and all other aircrew a separate insignia set. Standard pay bands, but my presumption is they were not assumed to be part of the normal chain of command.

Also, the British Army Air Corps uses NCO pilots to this day, often recruited from other Regiments of that Army.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #12 on: 07 October 2024, 01:51:18 »
Another note: when you flip through the different TRO's under the noteable pilots of Mechs you sometimes just find the rank Mechwarrior and no other rank. Might be more of a mercenary thing but could it be that pilots are more referred to as Mechwarrior then actual rank?

On the other side if you take the first novel from the Clan invasion series Kai-Allard-Liao as well as Victors friend Renny Sanderlin start their careers as Lieutenants with a lance command. Though that might also be because their end grade at their respective military academies were good enough.
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BrianDavion

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #13 on: 07 October 2024, 02:23:00 »
Another note: when you flip through the different TRO's under the noteable pilots of Mechs you sometimes just find the rank Mechwarrior and no other rank. Might be more of a mercenary thing but could it be that pilots are more referred to as Mechwarrior then actual rank?

On the other side if you take the first novel from the Clan invasion series Kai-Allard-Liao as well as Victors friend Renny Sanderlin start their careers as Lieutenants with a lance command. Though that might also be because their end grade at their respective military academies were good enough.

given they all where class mates it seems likely they all attended OCS together
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Templar87

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #14 on: 07 October 2024, 03:05:53 »
Flashpoint, the FCCW-era novel that details the start of the fighting on Kathil, includes a couple of mechwarrior corporals in the main character’s Kathil CMM company.  This surprises him, as “One of a MechWarrior’s privileges was usually w automatic promotion to sergeant.”  It’s explained that the two of them came up through the militia’s rural recruitment program and hold corporal as a probationary rank until yearly review, when they’ll presumably be promoted.


Also, as I recall, one of those Mechwarrior Corporals has in fact been busted from Sergeant more than once.
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Alan Grant

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #15 on: 07 October 2024, 08:35:04 »
I think Battletech should have established a separate rank system for mechwarriors who aren't officers.

It's always been clear to me that they are different, and from the beginning of the setting, were treated differently, even compared to a soldier of the same rank in a different branch.

Mechwarriors have also in some respects had their own sub-culture. It's also important to note that most mechwarriors seem to stay mechwarriors (not an officer) for their entire careers. So as-is. Over the years I've seen many books that mention mechwarriors who join a regiment and seem to stay there for a very very long time. Most claim a rank like Sergeant as stated in some faction details and what? Stay at Sergeant forever, for their entire career unless they become officers? That's what most of them seem to be doing.

I've seen a few get promoted higher to NCO ranks like Sergeant Major, but that's about it. That can't be everybody.

I don't claim to know what that hypothetical system could have or should have looked like. But it would have needed to give mechwarriors the opportunity to stay just that, a mechwarrior, not an officer, not anyone's commanding officer. Yet respect their years of service and expertise as a mechwarrior, as a specialist who has made that their craft. Probably a whole different set of ranks and structures. Not unlike the niche that warrant officer fills, but perhaps called something else.

I don't care as much about officers in this suggestion. They have a clearer career track and rank progression. A mechwarrior who is going to stay a mechwarrior for their entire career doesn't appear to, or the path forward is very limited. Even though the universe appears to be full of mechwarriors who do exactly that. They just want to be a 'mech driver forever, not an officer, and the universe needs that.

I know someone in a job field in real life, where they ran into something like this. They effectively had 2 career paths they could take. One amounted to being a leader (team leader, project manager etc.) the other didn't involve leadership roles, it just focused on developing their expertise in the work that they did. Learning new skills, becoming a subject matter expert, giving them job titles that reflected their higher level of expertise as a practitioner of their craft over say a junior person just starting out. It also afforded them a feeling that they were higher rungs of the ladder they could strive for, they didn't have to feel stuck.

What I'm suggesting reminds me of that because it demonstrates how that can work and look.
« Last Edit: 07 October 2024, 08:38:29 by Alan Grant »

butchbird

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #16 on: 07 October 2024, 18:41:20 »
They just want to be a 'mech driver forever, not an officer, and the universe needs that.

What else?

But then matybe that's just the neo-feudalism setting. A sergeant would stay a sergeant until he retired back in feudalistic days. A retainer a retainer, and yaddi-yaddi-yadda.

You do your service, thankfull for the chance of strapping yourself in a battlemech and hence be in the position every child desires in his wildest dreams (kinf of when you dreamt of being part of a stanley cup team), then you retire, passing off the status symbol to the next generation in the family...or taking it with you and becoming an integral part of a planetary militia.

Now I've not read as many BT novels as many on this board, but I do feel like the theme of "Older parents of a mechwarriors whom tend lands and/or farms" comes back fairly often. Now it could be that a life of constantly traveling and never getting to settle down mitigates the disadvantages of farm life in your later years, making it a popular job after service, but most probably this all ties up in the old antiquity/medieval/renaissance system of having your veterans settle down in places where you can hastily raise them back in service if need be, and mechwarriors being "more or less" nobility.

And then not every job offers different job titles. Heck, take machinists, one will program, set-up, operate and inspect all by himself. In a different shop, another machinist just pushes on the "cycle start" button all day and sometimes changes an insert. One can basically design parts by himself through experience and knowledge, the other, not so much. They're both simply titled machinists.

"Mechwarrior", the elite of the elite, bigger then life itself, even knights didn't have such bright armors and steads...what else?

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Cannonshop

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #17 on: 07 October 2024, 19:45:37 »
What else?

But then matybe that's just the neo-feudalism setting. A sergeant would stay a sergeant until he retired back in feudalistic days. A retainer a retainer, and yaddi-yaddi-yadda.

You do your service, thankfull for the chance of strapping yourself in a battlemech and hence be in the position every child desires in his wildest dreams (kinf of when you dreamt of being part of a stanley cup team), then you retire, passing off the status symbol to the next generation in the family...or taking it with you and becoming an integral part of a planetary militia.

Now I've not read as many BT novels as many on this board, but I do feel like the theme of "Older parents of a mechwarriors whom tend lands and/or farms" comes back fairly often. Now it could be that a life of constantly traveling and never getting to settle down mitigates the disadvantages of farm life in your later years, making it a popular job after service, but most probably this all ties up in the old antiquity/medieval/renaissance system of having your veterans settle down in places where you can hastily raise them back in service if need be, and mechwarriors being "more or less" nobility.

And then not every job offers different job titles. Heck, take machinists, one will program, set-up, operate and inspect all by himself. In a different shop, another machinist just pushes on the "cycle start" button all day and sometimes changes an insert. One can basically design parts by himself through experience and knowledge, the other, not so much. They're both simply titled machinists.

"Mechwarrior", the elite of the elite, bigger then life itself, even knights didn't have such bright armors and steads...what else?

Keep in mind something else; a lot of those writers have never  WORKED on a farm, they have no idea so it looks and sounds idyllic to them in their urban or suburban lifestyles.

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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #18 on: 07 October 2024, 23:00:52 »
Mechwarriors don't work farms, they own farms.  A retired mechwarrior (especially in the more neofeudal periods) is probably like Mr. Bennett from Pride & Prejudice; renting out his land to tenants, whiling away his days in the library, occasionally going to balls in town, etc.  I mean, unless he's one of those eccentrics who parked his Enforcer and dusted off an AgroMech, and farms his own land in that.  But those guys are probably unusual.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #19 on: 08 October 2024, 00:19:52 »
Mechwarriors don't work farms, they own farms.  A retired mechwarrior (especially in the more neofeudal periods) is probably like Mr. Bennett from Pride & Prejudice; renting out his land to tenants, whiling away his days in the library, occasionally going to balls in town, etc.  I mean, unless he's one of those eccentrics who parked his Enforcer and dusted off an AgroMech, and farms his own land in that.  But those guys are probably unusual.

especially given Agromechs are more of a "Lostech thing" in most of the Inner Sphere and probably worth more as collector's items, (or for their actuators and other components) than as industrial machinery (at least, from around 2850 to 3025 or so...)
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #20 on: 08 October 2024, 05:55:10 »
especially given Agromechs are more of a "Lostech thing" in most of the Inner Sphere and probably worth more as collector's items, (or for their actuators and other components) than as industrial machinery (at least, from around 2850 to 3025 or so...)

How would they be a Lostech thing? Aggromechs seem pretty common in the SW era. Just that some manufacturer plants were destroyed but the Mech itself usually kept working (unless destroyed)

Also I just thought of something funny: if all Mechwarriors are given an officer's rank how would a lance look like? Commanded by a lieutenant who has lieutenants as lancemates? Or perhaps Warrnat officers? I think it simply depends on if the higher ups see potential in you. If you have the potential to lead you get an officer's rank (or the chance to earn said rank through OCs training) if not you stay in the NCO ranks. And the majority stays as Private or corporal (there was a note in the SLDF field manual that the majority of their soldiers never advanced higher then Private or Corporal simply because the majority don't have the potential to lead)
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #21 on: 08 October 2024, 07:41:45 »
In the AFFC (as of FM:FS, I don’t know if the new Combat Manual changes the fluff here), cadets who pass OCS are automatically promoted to Subaltern, which is sort of a probationary rank that lasts 6 months, after which time you’re promoted to leftenant (as long as you haven’t screwed up somehow).  An all-officer AFFC mechwarrior corps could easily just extend that time period, with most mechwarriors being subalterns, and only getting beyond that if they’re promoted to Lance command.  The FWLM has 2 grades of Lieutenant, so you could have the basic mechwarrior as LT Junior Grade and Lance CO as a LT Senior Grade.  Things like that, assuming they didn’t want to add warrant officers (which only the Lyrans currently use, IIRC).
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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #22 on: 08 October 2024, 10:44:56 »

Also I just thought of something funny: if all Mechwarriors are given an officer's rank how would a lance look like? Commanded by a lieutenant who has lieutenants as lancemates? Or perhaps Warrnat officers? I think it simply depends on if the higher ups see potential in you.

To go back to the US Army Aviation comparison that AW & I brought up:

Lance Leader: 1LT or junior CPT
Lance XO: CW3, junior 1LT, or 2LT
Lancemates: 2x WO1-CW3
Maintenance personnel: all enlisted

There were never enough company command billets for all of our captains, though, so the junior Captains and senior 1LTs were rotated through Company XO and Battalion Staff positions (Assistant S-3, Assistant S-2, battle captains to man the TOC, etc).  We even had Captains from the line companies rotate through as the Headquarters & Headquarters Company commander.  I was in the S-2 (Security & Intelligence section) and at one point they put a pilot Captain in as the S-2 Officer because my 1LT got plucked by the brigade intel staff, leaving the enlisted intel pukes (Staff Sergeant, Sergeant, and Specialist) with a green-as-grass 2LT fresh out of the schoolhouse.  Even though he was in a staff slot, though, he still got at least one flight mission per week to keep his flight hours up.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #23 on: 08 October 2024, 12:32:07 »
My unit had the opposite problem.  Half the battalion (if not more) got pulled to deploy to Iraq with our state’s infantry brigade, which left us as a skeleton crew, with 1LT pilots serving as BN S1 and S2. I think the S2 could’ve counted all of his NCOs on one hand with fingers left over.  And then there was the drill weekend where most of what was left had been pulled to do hurricane relief in LA and the only ‘officer’ left in the company was an ROTC cadet (yours truly).  The BN staff meeting that weekend was fun, it was all the LTC could do not to laugh at me when it was my company’s turn for a status update.  But having the good sense of an ‘officer’ who had previously been enlisted, I said “Sir, 1SG’s going to brief you on the company status.” Turned to my 1SG, and didn’t say another word all meeting.


Similarly to your situation, though, we did also have pilot officers in S3 and S4 slots, as well as S1 and S2, and they likewise still got fairly regular flight hours.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #24 on: 08 October 2024, 13:55:48 »
How would they be a Lostech thing? Aggromechs seem pretty common in the SW era.
Not Lostech at all, just "never mentioned in the setting",  you know, like the full size of most Militias :)


Quote
Also I just thought of something funny: if all Mechwarriors are given an officer's rank how would a lance look like? Commanded by a lieutenant who has lieutenants as lancemates? Or perhaps Warrnat officers? I think it simply depends on if the higher ups see potential in you. If you have the potential to lead you get an officer's rank (or the chance to earn said rank through OCs training) if not you stay in the NCO ranks. And the majority stays as Private or corporal (there was a note in the SLDF field manual that the majority of their soldiers never advanced higher then Private or Corporal simply because the majority don't have the potential to lead)

I mentioned this up thread.   In a slightly different manner.   But yeah, you'd end up with Captains leading Lances & Major's leading Companies.

I think it's Corporal in the SLDF.
  In the US Army there is a reason they joke about calling Specialist (E-4), the "Sham Shield" and the "E-4 Mafia".

Mechwarriors have the option, depending on the Military,  to get NCO ranks higher than E-5 Sgt. 
Even in nations w/ just 1 rank above SGT (IIRC the SLDF) you would still have "Pay-Grades" for Raises & Slot assignments.
So in theory, based on the RPG rules, E-5 Sgts would not "be the same" as E-7 Sgts, even if they didn't bother w/ added "ranks".

So even if you don't have a "Company First Sgt" or a "Battalion Sgt Major",  you would have someone filling that role even if the "Rank/Title" didn't exist for it.
It would be a Senior NCO with a longer service & more "promotions/awards".
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The Brant

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #25 on: 08 October 2024, 15:25:55 »
when you flip through the different TRO's under the noteable pilots of Mechs you sometimes just find the rank Mechwarrior and no other rank. Might be more of a mercenary thing but could it be that pilots are more referred to as Mechwarrior then actual rank?
I noticed that when I played the scenarios in A Game of Armored Combat. At the time I assumed it was a generic placeholder since the scenarios are faction neutral.

DOC_Agren

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #26 on: 08 October 2024, 19:34:45 »
I over the years have gone back and forth on this.

Pro officer ranking well they are Pilots
Neg officer ranking how top heavy is my Military

I have kinda come to where the majority of my Merc Mechwarriors are treated as Warrant Officers. 
Yes we do have Officers, normally LT leading lances and Capt with Company command.  But my Warrants can pull duty as Tech Staff if needed.

And in a pinch figure out a command structure that works well if the officers are missing.


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Drop Bear

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #27 on: 01 November 2024, 03:25:03 »
Depends on your State and Reg Vs. Merc status.

e.g. in the LC (and later LA) if you in the Regular Army and where a Graduate of a Recognized Academy (mostly LC State but also a few Allied and one Private) they made you a Leutnant officially it was a Commissioned Specialist Rank, Unofficially it was subdivided in to Jr (or Ensign/3rd Lt.) and SR (or 2nd Lt) grades (that got treated like Officers) if you have OCS behind you they may treat you as a Sr Grade strait out of the Academy (otherwise you career at least to First Leutnant was fast tracked). If you came by your Mechwarrior Qualification by other means (Apprenticeship, S7 Stable or Unrecognized Academy) you start as a Private up until you get a Mech Assignment or can provide your own ride then they bounce you up to Leutnant.
If you are a Merc and you don't have a rank assigned by your Unit they will treat you as a Sergent and "Gentleman of Other Ranks" if you have graduated from a Recognized Academy.

the Fed Rats start you as a Sergent once you finish your Academy or Training Battalion commitment if you qualify as a MW by other  means if you have a Mech your a Sergent other wise you start as a Private till you land a Ride, that's unless you graduate OCS/OTC then you are an Officer.

Dracks DCMS Regulars you are a "Talon Sergent" it is a Seinor NCO they treat it more like a Warrant Rank Merc MW's are treated like a Regular Sergent

The FWL is all over the place depending on Region and Era

the Capies it depends on the Whim of whoever has their ass planted on the Throne and where they are in their Medication cycle (or if they are off their Meds all together)

Caesar Steiner for Archon

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #28 on: 01 November 2024, 16:52:47 »
The LA wasn't making non-officer candidate academy grads Leutnants out the gate, that was a strictly pre-AFFC thing. You had to go to officer school to be a Leutnant, otherwise you were a Sergeant.


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drjones

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Re: Should MechWarrior be an officer rank?
« Reply #29 on: 02 November 2024, 09:07:35 »
There's another thread with a similar conversation out there; I'm planning to look it up when able.

Personally, I see the models where MechWarriors are warrant officers or, if not at a higher rank, some form of most junior commissioned officer rank, as making the most sense. However, you can find early BT materials that have privates listed in the example 'mech regiment structure.

 

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