Vehicle Motive Hits can heavy damage ever move cruising speed to zero?

[kellemonster]

Page 193 of TW 10th printing has the motive system damage table.  Looking at the 8-9 and 10-11 damage types.  Moderate damage is -1 to cruising MP.  Heavy damage is half cruising MP (fractions round up).

Take a 3/5 mover assault tank.  You first get a moderate damage, lowering the tank to 2/3.  Then let us say you get three heavy damage hits.  First takes the tank down to 1/2; next takes it down to .5 (rounded up to 1/2); next takes it down to .25 (rounded up to 1/2).

Second scenario, you get three moderate damage hits and you lower MP to 0/0.

Is this right?  When you're dealing with a vehicle that is not relying on high speed it can actually be better the moderate damage hits make it a 0/0?

Not trying to argue rules philosophy, just wanting to make sure I'm reading this right.

[OatsAndHall]

Yes, this has been our interpretation of the rules. We've had many immobile vehicles on the map due to motive damage. 

[kellemonster]

Right, no problem with immobile vehicles, but immobility is only caused by moderate damage or major damage not heavy damage?

[Hellraiser]

Isn't there a note about vehicle crits/motive being limited to 1x per roll?

I swear my GM said something about that at the last game I played.

[Sartris]

sure. you have to roll 11 to get it so it's the least likely outcome in a majority of circumstances (12+ is much easier to hit because of mods). the likelihood you get multiple 11s on a 1/2 vehicle is pretty thin probability.

Isn't there a note about vehicle crits/motive being limited to 1x per roll

that's some actual crits and driving skill penalities, not motive crits

[kellemonster]

I don't think that is right. TW 10th printing pages 193-194:

Ground Combat Vehicle Critical Hit Effects
Critical hits only affect items in the location struck. If the
item listed on the Ground Combat Vehicle Critical Hits Table
does not apply in that location (the item doesn’t exist, only one
such critical hit can occur per location and so on), simply move
down the column until an applicable critical result is achieved.
For example, a dice roll result of 9 for the Rear location indicates
Weapon Destroyed. If the vehicle mounts no weapons
in that location, the player moves down to the Rear result for 10:
Engine Hit. If a player reaches 12 without achieving a critical result,
start over at 6 and continue down again. If a vehicle has already
taken all the critical damage in a column, ignore the critical hit.

They way I read this you only ignore the critical if all criticals for the location are gone.  Is there other language elsewhere?

[Sartris]

the language of some of the crits in the explanations tell you whether additional hits have an effect (eg stabilizers). if no effect occurs, move to the next item

[Daryk]

Since engine hits kill the vehicle, how would you ever "wrap around" the table??

[Sartris]

Fun fact: engine hits don't kill the vehicle.

Engine Hit: The vehicle’s engine is severely damaged. The vehicle may not move or change facing for the remainder of the game and is considered an immobile target. However, its electronics still function; any Direct-Fire Energy and Pulse Weapons no longer work; also treat as a turret lock.

[Daryk]

Ah, it's been a while since I saw that on a tabletop, thanks for the reminder! :)

[OatsAndHall]

Right, no problem with immobile vehicles, but immobility is only caused by moderate damage or major damage not heavy damage?

Honestly, we've gone with both. If the movement drops to a fraction, we call it immobile.

[DevianID]

I thought immobile was only on the 12 result of motive table.  Being reduced to 0 is not the -4 immobile condition, same as heat /leg crits on mechs reducing you to 0 isn't immobile either.

[OatsAndHall]

I thought immobile was only on the 12 result of motive table.  Being reduced to 0 is not the -4 immobile condition, same as heat /leg crits on mechs reducing you to 0 isn't immobile either.

So, they get MPP (i.e one hex)?

[Sartris]

units reduced to 0/0 through motive hits are not considered immobile but do not receive the benefits of minimum movement (you need 1 mp). use whatever mental gymnastics you need to for justification.

[Hellraiser]

Basically 0-MP units are still, wiggling in circles, kicking up mud/dirt, or something, IDK.

So while they aren't going anywhere, they aren't a pillbox/building getting that -4 to be hit.

They are treated as moving 0-hexes, since they didn't move. 

Like I say the kicking up mud spinning in circles is the best I can think of for what is going on.

[Daryk]

Or fruitlessly rocking back and forth trying to get out of the hole they're in... ;)

[Eminog]

House rules aside, it seems as though the RAW prevent heavy damage from reducing movement to 0 or immobile.  Infinite heavy damage hits will always create a fractional move, and the rules instruct you to round a fraction up (to a whole number, presumably, which is 1).

[DevianID]

Yes it does seem that if you take infinite heavy motive damage, the half/half always rounds up to 1/2.  But if any are the -1 moderate damage, now you are at 0 MP.

It would be funny to get like 5 heavy motive results, without managing an 8-9 or a 12.  Rare enough it would count as an achievement I think.