Author Topic: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III  (Read 5597 times)

JadeHellbringer

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MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« on: 04 November 2024, 13:59:46 »

NOTE: Due to the small number of Enforcer variants due to the Enforcer III essentially taking over the line for future development, both Mechs are being covered here. You're getting a two-for-one deal this week, stop complaining.  :wink:

Sometimes a design finds its way to so many different factions that it becomes almost ubiquitous- think of the Thunderbolt, for example, which pretty much everyone uses in some form or other, to the point that its distinctive silhouette appears in just about every conflict across human space. Others remain jealously guarded by their creator, rarely seen outside their forces aside from the occasional bit of salvage, a symbol of that nation's prestige. The Zeus for House Steiner, for example, or the Vindicator in Liao space. And today we'll cover a Mech that is quintessentially Davion, as much a symbol of that nation's fortunes as the sword and sunburst flag itself, as much of a core component of the Federated Suns as laughing at Taurians and illiteracy: The ENF series, aka Enforcer.

Much like the neighboring (and frequently-matched) opponent, the Dragon, the Enforcer is something of a rarity in that it is a design born of the end of the Star League, not a product of that doomed empire. In the Dragon's case, a rejected design (losing to the Shadow Hawk) was repurposed for mass production, but here a design that wasn't put into SLDF service for some reason was discovered by AFFS engineers after the end of the League. This is why you should regularly clean out your desk drawers. Achernar engineers rapidly realized they could build the machine, which they named Enforcer, probably thinking it sounded impressive for some reason. A few tweaks were made, including a change to the energy weaponry, but the design that walked off the asssembly lines to ring in the First Succession War is a rarity as a result- a design that didn't really come about in physical form until AFTER Kerensky took his toys and left. (NOTE: I haven't found anything that really gives detail on the design prototype- stats, whether any prototypes were built for evaluation, etc., but if anyone has solid info on that- not conjecture, but real info- I'll update here accordingly.)

So we'll start with what the AFFS found themselves using, and eventually relying on as the cornerstone of their forces, the ENF-4R. And first off, this will look achingly familiar to Liao and Kurita fans, because they'll know most of this by heart after years of dealing with the damned things... Davion fans will know it as well, but probably not be as thrilled as they'd like to be, because there's some hiccups in here that make it less-than-perfect. We start with the obvious- at 50 tons, this is a pretty simple low-weight trooper, the kind of thing you mass-produce and send in hordes to the front lines, which is exactly what Davion did (alongside other similar stalwarts like the Centurion and Shadow Hawk). They're... not fast. Opening up a 4R reveals a surprisingly small 200-class fusion engine, propelling the humanoid design to a stately 4/6. Jump jets allow for a 120m hop, which helps, but Enforcers are definitely best used in slow advances or stationary defense- in a high-mobility kind of fight, or terrain that can bog them down, Enforcers can be rapidly left behind or flanked.Luckily, if that happens, a remarkably tough shell of Starshield armor. Nine tons sounds great, and if you keep the front pointed at the enemy, that IS a tough task to batter through. However, the Davvies didn't really like the idea of dealing with the whole 'back' thing, and the rear armor as a result is nearly bug-Mech thin. There may be a temptation to let the arm-mounted weapons speak to whomever gets behind your Enforcer and just ignore the problem, but in an Enforcer, this is ABSOLUTELY not a good idea. At all. You WILL lose your trooper quickly to some schmuck in a Spider, and be laughed at by all the other patrons at the bar you drown all of your Disposessed sorrows in.

The thing we know about Davion above all else is that they can't read they love autocannons. (I know, I know, but I can make that joke all I want, they won't know, because... well, you know) So it was inevitable that the FedSuns stalwart medium would pack one. And to the surprise of absolutely no one, an AC/10 gets stuffed into the right arm. This not only gives the machine a reasonably-solid punch at mid-to-close ranges, it also streamlines the AFFS supply chain- you need the same ammo for an Enforcer as you do for a Centurion! It's here though that we run into a major problem... a single ton of ammo feeds the big gun, giving the pilot less than two minutes of sustained fire. Imagine some of the sweeping, massive battles of the Succession Wars along the Capellan and Draconis borders... now imagine you have ten rounds to take part in that fight before you go silent and need to reload. The Mech desperately needs more ammo, it's a massive problem even in modest-sized engagements- either you're hearing the loudest 'click' in your life when you pull the trigger and have nothing in the barrel, or you're so carefully husbanding your shots that you don't really take part as much as you'd like your trooper to do. Luckily, the left arm mirrors the big-gun approach of the right with a large laser. This gives you similar range brackets, similar damage output, and has no ammo needs- blaze away! With a couple of extra heat sinks on board, an Enforcer can happily blaze away with both big guns while walking for zero heat, which is a nice feat only slightly undone by that pesky 'not enough ammo to do that for long' issue. A small laser in the left torso provides token support at knife-fighting ranges, since the arms are probably not throwing punches at that point, but one canno thelp but wish to drop that laser and shave half a ton of armor here and there to fix that ammo issue. Decent Mech, particularly in numbers, but it is very reliant on support from other Mechs and from the rear areas.


Interestingly, that idea never caught on. Nor did any other. There are no variants of the Enforcer in the Succession Wars era (beyond a custom config we'll discuss later)- the FedSuns and Achernar seem to have looked at the 4F and said 'good enough, spam the field with them'. We don't see an upgrade of any kind until the Helm Core's secrets were revealed, and much like the Javelin we discussed recently, the Enforcer was understandably an early choice for getting new tech grafted on. What we end up with when we improve the Enforcer is a mixed bag- some good, some not. The ENF-5D takes the classic 'slow trooper' formula and turns it on its ear with a big XL engine. Where some Mechs in this era used an XL to drop weight to improve in other areas (the Shadow Hawk comes to mind), the Enforcer instead uses the freed-up weight to make the engine itself bigger. A 250XL now gives the Enforcer a 5/8/5 curve (yes, there's a new jump jet installed in the derriere as well!), allowing it to pace mediums like the Griffin with ease, and thus giving it a totally new outlook on life. The armor gets a bump to Ferro-Fibrous, with a little more added on here and there, particularly the rear (the rear sides can now take a medium laser without going internal... just). The large laser gets extended-range technology added, making it a handy sniper tool, while the autocannon is swapped out for the author's favorite all-time Battletech toy, the LB-10X. This magnificent weapon gives the Enforcer the option of either pounding a target with the classic slug shot, or peppering them with a barrage of pellets. Marvelous! And the second ton of ammo so helpfully provided means you actually can switch between types, and stay in the field longer than a couple of harrowing minutes. This all sounds great- the XL is a bit fragile, but the new movement and better weapon capabilities make this a- sorry, I'm being told the original twelve single heat sinks remain, combined with an ER large laser. Hooboy... well, bring extra bottles of Gatorade, because it's going to get toasty in your new Enforcer. The one-two punch of the laser and cannon now really needs to be a 'which one' punch, because the 5D will build waste heat quickly if you push it the way you used to be able to. One imagines this drawback was pretty irritating in most environments, and dead-fatal to those stationed to stop the Jade Falcons soon after this thing debuted. Major heat problems forcing you to carefully pick what you do and do not fire, against CLAN targets? Take it from this salty old Falcon veteran- a Kit Fox will chew up a 5D and spit it out with ease, to say nothing of heftier fare like a Nova. Casualty rates must have been astonishing.

WHEEEEEE!!!

The author will take a moment here to note something of interest. There's no further Enforcers for nearly a hundred years after this. Seriously- if the Succession Wars lack of variants feels weird, the total lack in the Civil War and Jihad are baffling. The deeply-flawed but oh-so-close 5D seems to have been 'good enough' for the old stalwart until the Dark Age, when... well, we'll get there later. In the meantime, we have the new guy. As the fracturing Federated Commonwealth disintegrated, and it became clear that the only outcome to the nation's decline was violence, Prince Victor Steiner-Davion initiated a program to boost the sagging morale of the nation (by this point, only the Davion half) by revitalizing two of its longtime designs into 'new' Mechs. The Jagermech and Enforcer became the 'III' versions, presumably seeing the 3050 upgrade as a 'II' (honestly, this has always bothered the author to no end- you can't read OR count, Davion?). While the Jagermech's upgrade was pretty substantial, the Enforcer still feels pretty 'ENF-classic'.

The resulting ENF-6M (odd Marik-y designation) debuted just as the Smoke Jaguar Clan died, and the layout is familiar. The speed of the 5D remains, the questionable armor of the series continues, but we DID install double heat sinks this time, because I suspect surviving 5D pilots would have rioted if they continued to suffer. The arm laser remains an ER, and the extended range tech makes its way to the traditional small laser as well. The cannon has become an Ultra AC/10 for some reason- this isn't a weapon that shows up in many FedSun designs, more of a Marik thing (that 6M designator takes on a new light here). Two tons of ammo is semi-sufficient- at double-rate, you're back to being a bit low on ammo, but if you only fire at full rate when the shots are really good, you can stretch that out better than the 4F did. The main differences are a new look for the design, more angular than before. It wasn't exactly the thundering response to the morale problem that the AFFC needed, but it was a solid Mech that saw heavy service over the coming couple of decades of war, both internally and against Word/Liao/Kurita forces as the Jihad raged. Of note, Victor's brother Arthur actually drove one of these when he was apparently killed in 3062.


Not everyone loved the new autocannon, and a simple field refit tossed it on the hangar floor and stuck on a classic AC/10 from the old ENF-4F. The resulting ENF-6Ma is the same as before, but loses the double-rate of fire to gain the ability to cram on specialty ammo. It's a sideways upgrade- if you like those ammo types, you're likely going to be happy, and if not it's not really helpful to lose the ability to occasionally double-crank the cannon.

Not everyone though was happy with EITHER option, as it turns out, and the ENF-6T made an attempt to make people happy by dropping the Enforcer's classic large laser + AC/10 combo entirely. Based on a technology demonstrator one-off from the 4th Succession War (we'll get there, hang on!), the 6T drops the large laser- in fact, nothing remains in the left arm, but it does gain a hand actuator in case you want to slap someone. The torso laser become an ER medium, and the armor skyrockets to the point that it can actually take a Gauss slug in most locations without breaking on the front now. Speaking of which... the Gauss rifle in the right arm is one hell of a punch for a 50-ton Mech. With two tons of ammo- plenty for most engagements as long as you're not stupid- the 6T can rain out a headcapper every turn with harrowing precision, partly thanks to the targeting computer in the left torso to help it. These mobile, scary little snipers are not to be underestimated, and probably proved very worrying for enemies of the state in the Jihad. Even Clan opponents have to respect this Mech, though by this point Davion no longer shared a border to worry about direct Clan conflict.

ENF-6G is a major variant of the 6T, retaining the Gauss but leaving off the computer due to supply shortages- understandable when the nation is being fileted from inside and out. The space previously reserved for the electronics is now filled by two ER medium lasers (in addition to the one it already had), an ER small laser, and a medium pulse laser. Interestingly, none of that ended up in the left arm where the old large laser mount was. Heat can get a little tough if you push the 6G, but not ridiculously so. The sniper becomes more of a generalist, able to leave its firing position and use its lasers to finish off a target now in a way the 6T was best advised to not do. The author was a bigger fan of this thing, to his own surprise- the computer is nice, the lasers are a great source of heft in-close. Use this when you have a choice between the two.

Another 6T variant born of supply issues (one suspects), the ENF-6H loses both the computer AND the Gauss rifle this time, replacing them with two more ER medium lasers like the 6G did, but devoting the rest of the space to a mammoth Ultra AC/20. A double-tap shot from this will cleave a side torso clean off of anything short of an assault Mech, and absolutely core out most mediums. With four tons of ammo, you can even actually pull that trigger a few times without worrying about major problems- and if you do run low, the lasers still cause plenty of pain. This is a lot of fun- think a slower, jump-capable Blitzkrieg essentially, and while the range suffers compared to other versions it is a beast in close combat. Consider one sometime as a bodyguard for LRM/artillery units, or for a general you want to keep safe from marauding Manei Domini.

As the Jihad really got into its tough years, the New Avalon Institute of Science produced a high-tech variant to test new weapon systems and get them into the field against the hordes of enemies clawing at the Suns. ENF-6NAIS goes back to the original layout of a big gun in each arm, but eschews the traditional ballistic in the left arm in favor of a Large VSP Laser. While the author isn't a VSP fan, he acknowledges the utility of the weapon, and tying it to the targeting computer (so THAT'S where those all went...) makes an already-accurate weapon far more deadly. The snub-nosed PPC in the right arm is a solid mid-to-close weapon as a backup, with the heat sinks to run and fire both. Backing up the guns are the old ER small laser again, along with an ECM suite (a good idea in the face of C3i networks!) and a C3 Slave of its own. This isn't going to be a cheap Mech, particularly with the Endo-Steel and Light Ferro jacking the price up further, and one suspects they weren't produced in huge numbers, but those that did make it into the field were likely welcomed warmly.

Also debuting mid-Jihad, a major upgrade to the classic ENF-6M was given the odd designation ENF-7C3BS. A medium pulse laser and ER medium laser get tied into a targeting computer (noticing a trend here...), but the right arm gets a heavy PPC jammed into it. This massive gun gets the same computer-assistance as the lasers, and can tear locations off a target just like the Gauss of the 6T without ammo concerns- but the heat is tough to handle. The twelve double heat sinks struggle to handle the three weapons if you lean too hard, but this is a solid trooper- particularly with the Boosted C3 Slave system hidden among the rest of the good times. It feels very trooper-y in a way, a return to form from the sniper we saw the 6T become, and unless you're in a high-heat environment this is a very fun Mech to tinker with a bit.


The NAIS played with another high-tech testbed during the Jihad, the ENF-7X MUSE COMPACT. The author has always felt that XTRO:Davion was the weakest of the XTRO series, with most units being simple 'well, we crammed as much Clan gear as we could on a FedSuns unit and gave it a silly name'. The Enforcer breaks the mold, at least mostly. We still use a large amount of Clan gear- in fact, most of the Mech is made of Kerensky's stolen toys. Structure, armor, heat sinks, engine, all Clan. How exciting. But the weaponry is a pair of Blazer cannons, and... let's take a moment and really stare at those. What is essentially two large lasers duct-taped together lost 25% of the damage the two lasers together would normally have done, but now they hit the same spot. The heat is atrocious, the range isn't great for this era, and its' hard to see why one would use these in place of bog-standard PPCs, to say nothing of ER or snub-nose models. But, that's what we did here with MUSE COMPACT, with twelve double-heat sinks suffering greatly for the effort. The feather in the cap is the improved jump jets, giving the machine an astonishing 240m jump- where would you like to go today? This is an enormous waste of resources overall- all that Clan gear and exotic jump jets to cram on a couple of Battletech's most underwhelming and self-destructive weapon systems. Do not use this Mech unless you find a convenient reason for the arms to mysteriously fall off first. The author suggests bribing your technicians. (Don't worry, they'll probably graft on Clan pulse lasers as replacements, considering what book this came from...)


Minor spoiler: The Federated Suns survived the Jihad, though in the kind of shape that most of its neighbors were in- which is to say, bruised, shell-shocked, and desperately in need of rebuilding both infrastructure and military forces... and morale, really. Another Enforcer III model is sure to do the trick- it worked so well in 3059, after all! The ENF-7D entered service just after the turn of the century, and we immediately see a trend we see across much of the Inner Sphere at this point- with the military drawdown post-Jihad, you have less Mechs overall, so what you still have should get all the bells and whistles. We start off with a familiar layout- same speed as always, Endo-Steel and light-Ferro to keep weight down, XL engine because of course we did, etc., and even the weapons feel a little homely in an era of VSPs and MMLs- an ER PPC is in the left arm, an LB-10X in the right fed by two tons of ammo. The torso small laser is a pulse model, because infantry in this era of less-Mechs are a major concern. Where one might get a surprise is from the torso-mounted cockpit. Your opinions on this change may vary- the author cannot for the life of him figure out what this was supposed to really accomplish that a regular head-cockpit wouldn't have done just as well. But, here we are- crotch-pilots rejoice. It's not a bad Mech outside of that- a bit bland, but perfectly serviceable.

By the Jihad, a variant called the ENF-6R had debuted, and it's honestly surprising that it took this long to get an Enforcer with Davion's beloved rotary autocannon. Pairing an ER PPC with a RAC-5 (with the standard three tons of ammunition) is a solid idea, one that should have existed decades prior. Not a lot to say here- if you like the idea of a long-range blast, shifting to a barrage of slugs at mid-range as the fight progresses, this is a great choice.

Hello!

As the Dark Age rolled from brush fires in the Republic to full-scaled interstate warfare on multiple fronts, the Davions found themselves with a small problem- loss of their capitol. New Avalon fell, and if it hadn't been to Kurita it would have been to Liao, because both were racing to be the one to take the prize. This was not the end of the FedSuns though- far from it. Davion rallied elsewhere, and one of the factors in doing so was a new Enforcer variant. Not an Enforcer III- an old-school Succession Wars-style Enforcer! The assembly line was rapidly retooled to make a new version that could be built on the cheap and in good numbers to just fill out forces, and in this regard, the ENF-5R is a success. A light engine forces us to return to the old days of 4/6/4, but where other versions went XL and used the weight savings to jack up movement, here the LFE's weight savings go elsewhere. Armor is roughly on-par with the old 5D from a century prior, and the LB-10X returns from the 5D with its two tons of ammo as well. The double heat sinks are a welcome change though, as the left arm is now a Large Re-Engineered Laser. Your opinion on this weapon may vary (and juding from some of the fights I've had to break up on these forums over the years, your opinions are STRONG about it!), but like it or not, here it is. The small laser is an ER model, and as much of an afterhtought as ever. This is a solid machine- unspectacular, but cheap and simple. One can't help but smile at the idea of entire forces made of old-school Enforcers again advancing under the sword-and-sunburst like they did hundreds of years prior.

We'll wrap up with a couple of one-offs... or more specifically, one that had a couple of generations of service. Daniel Waylen was a Mechwarrior in the famous Fox's Teeth special-ops unit (of Sword & Dragon fame), and his Enforcer was a little different thanks to his meddling. Selected by the NAIS to get some of the experimental first prototypes from the Helm Core during the War of 3039, the ENF-4H Daniel swapped out the classic weapons for a pair of medium lasers in place of the old large laser (a solid idea that appears to have been the case on the original SLDF-era prototype!), freeing space for a prototype Gauss rifle! This must have been one hell of a surprise for DCMS opponents, wondering what in the nine hells just smacked into their armor at that kind of range! While the prototype was a bit tricky, leading eventually to the refined production model we know and love, this was easily one of the most dangerous surprises of the War, and underestimating this Mech (or just n ot realizing it's not a standard 4F!) is a fatal blunder.

Upgraded to the 5D standard (sort of) as the Clan invasion began, Waylen's refitted ENF-5D Daniel kept the basic layout. The prototype Gauss was replaced with the standard model, while new-tech ER medium lasers and an ER small laser replaced the old mediums (this may be the first Mech chonologically to moutn IS ER mediums and smalls). As with the 5D, the speed and jump go up as a result of the XL engine. Same as before, just more of it- a deadlly opponent made only less-spectacular by its status as a one-off design.

(Interestingly, Waylan's Mech is the only notable pilot variant out there- Arthur Steiner-Davion drove a standard ENF-6M)

So there we have it. A Mech so Davion it probably has a sunburst-logo imprinted on every part, and might as well be on their flag in return. A Davion force without an Enforder or two in it isn't a real Davion force at all (fight me on that), and it's honestly heartening to know that the original stalwart versions are back in production in the Dark Age again (if under a new version). The fates of the nation rise and fall with the fortunes of the AFFS, and they in turn rely on the Enforcer as their pillar- whatever your opinion of the assorted models (and some really are mixed), few machines can claim to be more intertwined with their national identity than this.

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nerd

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #1 on: 04 November 2024, 14:25:34 »
The Daniel variants are from Starter Book Sword and Dragon, and interestingly, it's dated to 3054 in that product. Very much earliest dated Inner Sphere ER Medium and Small Lasers.

But back on the main topic!

The basic -4R is a slow trooper. Put in a lance with some 4/6 heavies, and it's going to last a while longer. There's two schools of though with the AC/10 there: either get rid of it to avoid the torso ammo bomb given the thin armor, or husband it while keeping up a steady laser barrage. Not mentioned, but important, is the ammo is supposed to be easily reloaded. It does posses the Fast Reload quirk, halving the time required to reload ammo. That gets offset by having an ammo feed problem as another quirk...
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garhkal

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #2 on: 04 November 2024, 14:37:38 »
Always liked enforcers in game.  TILL someone gets in their rear then they fold like a house of cards..  i've lost MORE enforcers that way, seeing my torsos chewed up from the rear, than from anything else.
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MarauderD

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #3 on: 04 November 2024, 18:36:48 »
I like the unit and new model.  Historically, I haven't done 'great' with them, but I think that says more about my ability than it does the unit.....

MightyBolamite

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #4 on: 04 November 2024, 20:05:19 »
The Enforcer is just a solid wingman. Won't be the star player on your board, probably, but will help at least a little. And it's hard to hate a Mech like that.

I really want to like the 5R because, in theory, it is a good Mech to take on opponents who favor special armors. Not hardened as much, sadly, but this Mech is a threat to both Ballistic and L-Reflective at the same time. It's neat!
It's just a shame the 5R can't quite force a PSR during its weapons phase.

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #5 on: 04 November 2024, 20:22:49 »
I like how of a trooper the Enforcer was.  I thought what MWDA clicky did to it was dirty, making center cockpit placement and calling it Enforcer III was just to different to me.

The ENF-5R makes sense as the Re-Engineering Laser was essentially Davion tech item, but it just reducing the speed to 4/6/4 makes it feel like it's a garrison mech given how fast Dark Age mechs are in general. Being able to cut through specialty armor which is bit more numerous by this time seems make sense have something than frustration trying shoot mechs with thank kind Armor.

Thanks again for doing the article, JadeHellbringer.

P.S.  Enfield was essentially the brother 'Mech to the Enforcer, being long lost prototype of the SLDF.  It always felt like Enforcer to me.
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #6 on: 04 November 2024, 20:40:54 »
NOTE: Due to the small number of Enforcer variants due to the Enforcer III essentially taking over the line for future development, both Mechs are being covered here. You're getting a two-for-one deal this week, stop complaining.  :wink:

I don't care what the MUL says,  I consider the Enforcer-III to be about as much of a "separate mech" as I do the Atlas-II or Wolverine-II or ANY of the entire line of Project Phoenix models.

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #7 on: 04 November 2024, 20:46:23 »
Great article as usual.

Outside of the basic model I'm a HUGE fan of the 3039-Daniel model

Otherwise, I've used the 6T, 6H, & 6G models & enjoyed them all.

I can't say that I've used most any other models really.   (I'm sure in 35 years I've been stuck w/ the 5D at some point but I don't recall..... I try to avoid it)
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #8 on: 04 November 2024, 20:55:19 »
i feel like the Enforcer II being undefined leaves opportunity for a limited run design from the late succession wars or start of the tech renaissance.... but what could you do different to the classic version?

the only thing i can think of it an attempt to use the Ferro, CASE, LB10X, and XL engine combo like on the -5D, but keeping the 4/6/4 speed of the classic -4R and boosting armor or other weaponry instead of speed. sort of a "using the new toys to make this an even better basic trooper" approach, the sort of thing that would go out the window once the clans arrived and those slow medium trooper style units turned out to be less than useful.
« Last Edit: 04 November 2024, 21:03:02 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #9 on: 05 November 2024, 01:09:15 »
Per TRO 3050 Upgrade and TRO 3058 Upgrade, the original prototype design was what would eventually become the Enfield, and it wasn't put into production in the Inner Sphere until 3055, though per TRO Golden Century, Clan Mongoose used the same blueprints to briefly put their own version of the Enfield into production in 2825 (which used a mixture of Clan and Inner Sphere tech) but it didn't survive that Clan's absorption by the Smoke Jaguars in 2868.
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #10 on: 05 November 2024, 10:34:49 »
i feel like the Enforcer II being undefined leaves opportunity for a limited run design from the late succession wars or start of the tech renaissance.... but what could you do different to the classic version?

the only thing i can think of it an attempt to use the Ferro, CASE, LB10X, and XL engine combo like on the -5D, but keeping the 4/6/4 speed of the classic -4R and boosting armor or other weaponry instead of speed. sort of a "using the new toys to make this an even better basic trooper" approach, the sort of thing that would go out the window once the clans arrived and those slow medium trooper style units turned out to be less than useful.

To me, the "II" implies a full on new version of the mech.
So I'd probably do something like make it a 55T 5/8/5 mech.  (This would match what they did with the Jager & Centurion)
Lots of 55 Ton Trio designs w/ XLs in that era.  So engines available.
Maybe match the weapons of the Daniel model w/ Gauss+2ML.   Maybe upgrade the SL w/ Pulse for some AI ability.
If there is tonnage left, some electronics like ECM/C3 might be nice.
DHS & Max armor are a given.
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #11 on: 05 November 2024, 11:12:08 »
The II would be whatever the writers say. This is only a argument because they never did bother saying why the III was the III, it's just as likely someone at Fasa forgot how to count.
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Hellraiser

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #12 on: 05 November 2024, 11:19:17 »
it's just as likely someone at Fasa forgot how to count.

More likely someone just really wanted to separate themselves out from all the IIC models of that era & made the Jump to III to be "special".
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #13 on: 05 November 2024, 12:20:56 »
It IS worth noting that we saw a similar jump from the classic Vulture to the Vulture III (and IV), without a clear 'Vulture II' out there- there's been some explanation, but we never really got a record sheet or any of that for this apocryphal II version there either.

In the Enforcer's case at least, the differences between the standard and III are so absurdly minor (essentially just a new version rather than a ground-up rebuild the way we see with, say, the Hollander, or the Corvis becoming the Stormcrow) that it really does feel more like a weird marketing gimmick than a real 'new Mech'- which, I suppose, is exactly what we're told the idea was. Why FedCom analysts thought that would be a successful idea, I couldn't say, but at least it's a solid Mech. (So is the Jagermech III, really- an absolute dog of a miniature, but it's a very solid improvement on the original, or at least over the 65-ton models).

Re: Enfield, I knew I'd seen something a while back about the Enfield and Enforcer sharing a common ancestor, but couldn't find it while researching for the article. (To be fair, most of my TROs and such have been in a plastic bin in a storage locker since early in the pandemic, so I'm going off PDFs that sometimes can be a bear to look through). I'll update the article when I get a chance now that I know it wasn't just my brain coming up with a crackpot theory, and other people are aware of this as well.

One other thing, while I'm here updating. Ever play the HBS Battletech game on Steam? It's a favorite of mine to run during my work day- since it's turn-based, it kind of waits for me to finish what I'm doing for work, and so I can play at a pace dictated by the workflow (as opposed to an RTS like Command & Conquer, for example). For some reason, the Enforcer is my 'big bad' in that game- I'm more worried about an ENF showing up on the field than I am about an Atlas or King Crab. Seriously- nothing good ever comes of these things in-game for me, they ALWAYS land crazy hits that kill my pilots outright, or lop an arm from a Mech that had a rare weapon in there, something like that. It drives me insane every time- I won't even use them if I salvage them, there's too much of a hoodoo around them for me. (They're unpleasant in MW5:Mercs as well, though that's more just because they're heavy-hitters for their size than anything).
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #14 on: 05 November 2024, 12:22:22 »
As a Drac fan I shouldn't love it but I'll always take one as salvage. The Enforcer as always done well for me. It's my main ride in MWO
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #15 on: 05 November 2024, 12:28:49 »
As a Drac fan I shouldn't love it but I'll always take one as salvage. The Enforcer as always done well for me. It's my main ride in MWO

I will say that in MWO it really pulls its weight (no pun intended).  It is slightly more narrow than I feel it should be, and that creates a tougher target profile once you are past about 350 meters.  People are so used to shooting at fat Awesomes and Mad Cats and then have trouble with the narrow profile of the Enforcer.

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #16 on: 05 November 2024, 14:30:01 »
I have to disagree with the enforcer III, it's so visually a different Beast it's not even funny. If you compare it to the blocky version of the original.

Then you have the Dark Age version of the Enforcer III with the "windmill" arms. Essentially,  4 arms on 2 shoulders and the torso cockpit mounted. Frankly, it's a Enforcer IV.

« Last Edit: 05 November 2024, 19:46:54 by Wrangler »
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #17 on: 05 November 2024, 14:41:37 »
I have to disagree with the enforcer III, it's so visually a different Beast it's not even funny. If you compare it to the blocky version of the original.
I hear you, and yet, it's less different than the Project Phoenix mechs & those are just "Variants".
Also the Enforcer doesn't get added upgrades to continue production.  They used the same line w/ some visual changes.

Marauder-II is a full on chassis "Mark" change.  (To me)
Different tonnage, different production line/location, etc etc.
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #18 on: 05 November 2024, 18:14:21 »
Davion's 2nd Mech pillar. The Enforcer is an interesting compromise design like most 3025 units, though it is odd that the 5Rs didn't get a refit to DHS after the initial Clan Invasion.  I do find the one in MW 5 Clans with dual UAC/5s hilarious being in the DCMS hilarious.

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #19 on: 05 November 2024, 18:21:33 »
Davion's 2nd Mech pillar. The Enforcer is an interesting compromise design like most 3025 units, though it is odd that the 5Rs didn't get a refit to DHS after the initial Clan Invasion.  I do find the one in MW 5 Clans with dual UAC/5s hilarious being in the DCMS hilarious.

5R is from DarkAge

Do you mean 4R or 5D?
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Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #20 on: 05 November 2024, 20:05:42 »
It occurs to me that the Enfield itself could have been intended to be the "Enforcer II", though that's pure speculation on my part.
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MightyBolamite

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #21 on: 05 November 2024, 22:43:48 »
More likely someone just really wanted to separate themselves out from all the IIC models of that era & made the Jump to III to be "special".

Err... in universe or out? Cuz that could go either way.

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #22 on: 05 November 2024, 22:45:33 »
Why not both?
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #23 on: 05 November 2024, 22:55:05 »
The Enforcer is a very beginner friendly 'mech that has just enough heat generation to overheat is you push it, but can easily cool down with only a little planning. The thick armor with a thin back is also forgiving for newbies without making them feel invincible. And the two big guns make shooting quick and impactful. Its an all around great 'mech for letting people get their feet wet, while having variants for them to see real upgrades.
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #24 on: 06 November 2024, 05:45:31 »
It occurs to me that the Enfield itself could have been intended to be the "Enforcer II", though that's pure speculation on my part.
I always thought the Enfield was "Enforcer II" but fluff doesn't match up to it or support the theory.
It seemed to me when  i first read it, that the Enforcer was based on the plans, making it a the Enfield low tech variant. Since it blueprints were Star League-era.
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #25 on: 06 November 2024, 12:06:19 »
Used a ENF-6Ma on a King of the Hill battle, with the remaining BV making it a 1/2 and packing plenty of Prec ammo.  Problem was it could not put down a target easily- against heavies with regular pilots- but not stout enough to stand on the hill w/o moving.

It is definitely a mech I would run again.

But yeah, I wondered why we never got a AC/5 & PPC design in 3025.
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #26 on: 06 November 2024, 14:07:05 »
AC/5 and PPC is such a nice Introtech Combo and would have made for a good variant, I agree. Perhaps the Enforcer was meant to play the middle field between the Marauders, Archers  and Valkyries in the back and the Javelins and Wolverines up front. Enforcers and Javelins Play very nice together, by the way. An aggressive Enforcer can lead an opponent to de-prioritize a sneaky Javelin for that turn or two it needs to get into position.
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #27 on: 06 November 2024, 14:08:51 »
The Enforcer does stand out for being a 3025 mech without any variants at all.

Edit: Hey, I just realized: the Watchman was a modified Enforcer chassis that stripped out the autocannon for secondary weapons and dropped ten tons.  That seems like a very good contender for the hypothetical "Enforcer II".
« Last Edit: 06 November 2024, 14:10:57 by MoneyLovinOgre4Hire »
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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #28 on: 06 November 2024, 14:25:31 »
But yeah, I wondered why we never got a AC/5 & PPC design in 3025.

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Re: MotW: Enforcer/Enforcer III
« Reply #29 on: 06 November 2024, 16:43:41 »
In the original Enforcer III fluff, it talks about how a lot of -5D pilots resented the change: like JHB, they really liked the LBX-10, and found the Ultra to be a difficult weapon to get used to.  They don’t seem to have cared about the heat at all.


It’s funny to me that nowadays DHS is such a basic, obvious, universal upgrade when moving from L1 to L2 tech, but in-universe and out it seems to have been often neglected by the folks first using the Helm Core.  The 3050 Panther, Atlas, Enforcer, and I’m sure others would be so much better with the simple swap to DHS that any of us would make in our sleep.


As for a hypothetical Enforcer II, it’s probably better to take speculation to the design boards.  I’m posting from my phone atm, but when I get home I’ll try to whip up something I was thinking about in SkunkWerks and post a thread over there.
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