Author Topic: Splinters of the Republic  (Read 3585 times)

Dahmin_Toran

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Splinters of the Republic
« on: 23 November 2024, 07:36:58 »
The fall of the original Star League spawned a number of mercenary units and a few House units when they were absorbed into neighboring states. How many similar units were created from the fall of the Republic of the Sphere?

Metallgewitter

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #1 on: 23 November 2024, 08:00:26 »
There is the small unit called Cheetahs. They have Stone's personal Atlas 2 mech. Not sure if you would count the Dawn Guard which have choosen to stay in Federated Suns employ (maybe become a House unit). Other then that there is so far no real information what happened to the rest. You might count the Northwind Highlanders as a mercenary unit again which also includes the 10th Hastati (?)
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BrianDavion

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #2 on: 23 November 2024, 08:08:54 »
There is the small unit called Cheetahs. They have Stone's personal Atlas 2 mech. Not sure if you would count the Dawn Guard which have choosen to stay in Federated Suns employ (maybe become a House unit). Other then that there is so far no real information what happened to the rest. You might count the Northwind Highlanders as a mercenary unit again which also includes the 10th Hastati (?)

the Dawn Guards ARE a house unit. there's no "may"
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #3 on: 23 November 2024, 08:12:51 »
Ok, by now. They weren't when Stone gave them to Julian though were they? There was some rumbling when Julian decided to not help Stone
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Church14

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #4 on: 23 November 2024, 08:42:44 »
The fall of the original Star League spawned a number of mercenary units and a few House units when they were absorbed into neighboring states. How many similar units were created from the fall of the Republic of the Sphere?

IKEO is going to be enlightening here. Right now we’re lacking this info. But what we have is basically:

- Dawn Guards. Heavy regiment of RAF troops that were all from historically FedSuns worlds. Unit was sent knowing it would likely never come back. Now full on AFFS
- Northwind highlanders were an RAF unit for 70 years, and have absorbed XII Hastati (which helped defend northwind from DCMS and CCAF and didn’t make it to Terra) and are now a massive-by-era-standard merc unit.
- Cheetahs. A company led by the ares crew from HotW that somehow were the only people to recognize stone’s Phantom, a unique loadout of a rare mech
- 1st Augustine Arquebusiers. Unit raised to defend Augustine Alliance in FWL that recruited some of the ex-RAF out and about.
- Seychelle’s Stonehearts. Ex-RAF unit formed originally to be escorts if Stone fled off Terra. Contains some ghost knights, including Mason Dunne

Metallgewitter

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #5 on: 23 November 2024, 17:35:31 »
There were also hints that remnants from some Triari, Principes and Fidelis units managed to reach the Federated Suns. Though it is unclear what they will do now. the same goies for the Free Worlds League. On one planet there are now more RAF troopers then actual League garrisons. Maybe they join Ex-Paladin Zhou who terrorized the Wolf garrison where she was incarcerated but then fled.
« Last Edit: 24 November 2024, 05:24:07 by Metallgewitter »
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #6 on: 23 November 2024, 22:20:34 »
i honestly wouldn't be surprised if a lot of RAF units don't turn into the ilclan era's main merc units, it would be a fun way to keep them around.
« Last Edit: 23 November 2024, 22:22:33 by glitterboy2098 »

BrianDavion

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #7 on: 24 November 2024, 02:00:55 »
There were also hints that remnants from some Triari, Principes and Fidelis units managed to reacxh the Federated suns. Thgough it is unclear what they will do now. the same goies for the Free Worlöds League. On one planet thjere are now more RAF troopers then actual League garrisons. Maybe they join Ex-Paladin Zhou who terrorized the Wolf garrison where she was incarcerated but then fled.

Fingers crossed for a "Second dawn guard" with a lightly less annoying paint scheme
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #8 on: 24 November 2024, 10:51:21 »
Don’t forget Stones Shadows which became Clan Smoke Jaguar again…

Stormlion1

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #9 on: 24 November 2024, 11:43:15 »
In the short story of the Cheetahs going to Galatea there is lots of mentions of former RoTS troops looking for work. Good money many will form there own units.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #10 on: 24 November 2024, 16:59:28 »
In the short story of the Cheetahs going to Galatea there is lots of mentions of former RoTS troops looking for work. Good money many will form there own units.

In the same Shrapnell book was also a mercenary recruiter who was joking he is having the entire RAf looking for work. Guess nobody wanted to live under the Wolves or Capellan thumb
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BrianDavion

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #11 on: 24 November 2024, 18:05:45 »
In the same Shrapnell book was also a mercenary recruiter who was joking he is having the entire RAf looking for work. Guess nobody wanted to live under the Wolves or Capellan thumb

The impolication was that being former RAF was a real conveniant way to pad ones resume as it was, thanks to the wall, almost impossiable to check
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #12 on: 24 November 2024, 21:04:06 »
Though there's still a significant implication that there are a lot of actual former RAF troops looking for work as well.  The lie doesn't work so well if there aren't.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #13 on: 24 November 2024, 21:45:06 »
If they're any good as Mercs, the question has to be asked...and won't be.

"Where the ****** were you when your nation was being overrun, your people enslaved to a military obsessed dictatorship, where were you, when the Republic needed you?"

The one thing every employer can count on, is that ex-RAF are going to be well-equipped, well-trained operators who cannot be trusted to hold a line or uphold their oaths or contracts.
« Last Edit: 24 November 2024, 21:47:26 by Cannonshop »
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #14 on: 25 November 2024, 00:18:50 »
Eh, a lot of troops apparently weren't recalled for the Battle of Terra.  Once it was over, well, an oath to a nation that no longer exists isn't exactly binding.
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BrianDavion

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #15 on: 25 November 2024, 02:13:27 »
If they're any good as Mercs, the question has to be asked...and won't be.

"Where the ****** were you when your nation was being overrun, your people enslaved to a military obsessed dictatorship, where were you, when the Republic needed you?"

The one thing every employer can count on, is that ex-RAF are going to be well-equipped, well-trained operators who cannot be trusted to hold a line or uphold their oaths or contracts.

or where you know deployed elsewhere Canonshop. there are nmerous republic regiments that simply didn't make it to Terra in time, we also know a number of RAF units escaped terra in the aftermath.anyone showing up on Galeta isn't going to be someone who immediatly turned tail and ran when they where the clans where coming.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #16 on: 25 November 2024, 02:50:00 »
The thing is as with that Cheetah story: a lot of units theys mention aren't known out there. Nobody knew of the Redburn Guards. Or say 16th Triari. Those are new units. If you say "I am from Stone's Lament, here is my dog tag and my what have you" it would probably open a lot of doors (well except that Stones Brigade was wiped out to the last man and woman if Ilclan trial is to be believed). Heck even the knight was not able to convince that broker he was one (ok being a Ghost Knight makes it probably a bit hard to verify THAT claim)
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Church14

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #17 on: 25 November 2024, 06:53:08 »
The thing is as with that Cheetah story: a lot of units theys mention aren't known out there. Nobody knew of the Redburn Guards. Or say 16th Triari. Those are new units. If you say "I am from Stone's Lament, here is my dog tag and my what have you" it would probably open a lot of doors (well except that Stones Brigade was wiped out to the last man and woman if Ilclan trial is to be believed). Heck even the knight was not able to convince that broker he was one (ok being a Ghost Knight makes it probably a bit hard to verify THAT claim)
Most of the Brigade ended up facing falcons, so slaughtered to a person. Exceptions are the Revenants and Fury, which were surrounded by wolves outside Paris and eventually defeated.

Cannonshop

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #18 on: 25 November 2024, 08:52:57 »
or where you know deployed elsewhere Canonshop. there are nmerous republic regiments that simply didn't make it to Terra in time, we also know a number of RAF units escaped terra in the aftermath.anyone showing up on Galeta isn't going to be someone who immediatly turned tail and ran when they where the clans where coming.

Have you heard the joke about French service rifles on the surplus market, Brian?  Lots of French units didn't melt and weren't able to relieve Paris, this did not stop the entire service from getting a bad rep as surrender-monkeys.

The difference being, there was actually a 'Free french' resistance, so the bad reputation didn't stick forever.  Guess what we don't got here?  Please remember that the Federated Suns also lost both a supreme leader, and their capital.

There wasn't a sudden influx of ex-Fedsuns mercs, now was there?

OTOH, these Republic units, are running off to distant service and leaving the remains of their homeland undefended, taking megatons of public property with them, while abandoning that public to conquest on two sides, over a leader who probably wasn't the leader when they went through their very expensive training and formed their units.

Nobody with any sense is going to trust these guys to uphold oaths or, by extension contracts-they've already shown their word is absolute shit.
« Last Edit: 25 November 2024, 09:00:41 by Cannonshop »
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #19 on: 25 November 2024, 09:28:09 »
The entire FedSuns didn't collapse in the wake of New Avalon being occupied.  The situation is entirely different.  Had the FedSuns fallen to the point where the Combine and Confederation shared a common border, you'd see the market suddenly flooded with former-FedSuns troops.  Quite frankly, a willingness to fight to the death after the war has already been lost is not an admirable trait.
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Church14

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #20 on: 25 November 2024, 09:42:58 »
Please remember that the Federated Suns also lost both a supreme leader, and their capital.

There wasn't a sudden influx of ex-Fedsuns mercs, now was there?
The FedSuns didn't surrender and have the government dissolved. Yori Kurita didn't stand over the first prince's corpse, pillow in hand, declaring there is no more FedSuns. thanks to an unconditional surrender and dissolution. This isnt a good comparison.


OTOH, these Republic units, are running off to distant service and leaving the remains of their homeland undefended, taking megatons of public property with them, while abandoning that public to conquest on two sides, over a leader who probably wasn't the leader when they went through their very expensive training and formed their units.

Nobody with any sense is going to trust these guys to uphold oaths or, by extension contracts-they've already shown their word is absolute shit.
Your sequencing is backwards and that messes up your conclusions. RAF troops didn't flee the Republic before it died. The remains of their homeland aren't undefended. The conquest is already done. Every single planet save Northwind was conquered by neighboring states. There's no Republic left to defend. None of the RAF troops have been shown to have gone merc until after their government was disbanded, which means none have been shown breaking their oaths to the Republic. This idea that people would think they are deserting oathbreakers isn't based in what actually happened in setting.

It also doesn't follow setting precedent. There's a much better comparison than twisting the fall of New Avalon as a comparison. The Star League. Multiple merc units - including some of the most famous and notable ones - started under exactly the same circumstances (dissolution and collapse of the Star League / Hegemony) and nobody is concerned. If anything, the desire to uphold ideals of a better age is a selling point.

That doesn't even get into the realpolitik of the moment in the setting: Machines are plentiful, pilots are not. People are desperate for well training soldiers and there's a new supply.

There's no reason to expect Galatea or other hiring worlds would be averse to ex-RAF mercs. Their main concern would be stolen valor, where people pretend to be ex-RAF. 
« Last Edit: 25 November 2024, 09:54:36 by Church14 »

Cannonshop

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #21 on: 25 November 2024, 13:23:20 »
The FedSuns didn't surrender and have the government dissolved. Yori Kurita didn't stand over the first prince's corpse, pillow in hand, declaring there is no more FedSuns. thanks to an unconditional surrender and dissolution. This isnt a good comparison.

Your sequencing is backwards and that messes up your conclusions. RAF troops didn't flee the Republic before it died. The remains of their homeland aren't undefended. The conquest is already done. Every single planet save Northwind was conquered by neighboring states. There's no Republic left to defend. None of the RAF troops have been shown to have gone merc until after their government was disbanded, which means none have been shown breaking their oaths to the Republic. This idea that people would think they are deserting oathbreakers isn't based in what actually happened in setting.

It also doesn't follow setting precedent. There's a much better comparison than twisting the fall of New Avalon as a comparison. The Star League. Multiple merc units - including some of the most famous and notable ones - started under exactly the same circumstances (dissolution and collapse of the Star League / Hegemony) and nobody is concerned. If anything, the desire to uphold ideals of a better age is a selling point.

That doesn't even get into the realpolitik of the moment in the setting: Machines are plentiful, pilots are not. People are desperate for well training soldiers and there's a new supply.

There's no reason to expect Galatea or other hiring worlds would be averse to ex-RAF mercs. Their main concern would be stolen valor, where people pretend to be ex-RAF.

The star league was a freak in two ways that the Republic isn't.
1. There were still member states claiming legitimacy.  This is not the case in the Republic, assuming you accept that having your government occupied after a surrender and nation partitioned (there were still worlds unconquered by the Wolves when Terra fell) by an illegal and unlawful dissolution by an occupier of your capital.  In THAT situation (the Star League), the units 'going 'merc' were still viewed as supporting their nation-either because of a majority of the troops being FROM that successor state, or because the Successor State Lord was a legitimate claimant to the Star League throne and leadership.  They were not, after all, the "SECESSION" wars...

2. The real comparison to the Republic's dissolution would be the Amaris Coup, not Operation:Exodus.  A foreign Army has occupied the Capital-for the second or third time, I grant, but a foreign occupier also 'dissolved' the Republic (orders given under duress are by definition, illegal and unlawful, Stone was under duress.)  This makes his order to dissolve the Republic unlawful, obedience of that order, therefore, is desertion in the face of an enemy.  Soldiers are bound by their duty, and the Republic was, at least on the face of it, a nation comprised of member worlds-those member worlds didn't immediately declare independence or bow to the invaders, therefore, the RAF units that went mercenary betrayed their oaths, and revealed themselves to be faithless.

To put it further, Terra is fallen, the supreme leader surrendered, and then died-conveniently timed just after the surrender.  These SOLDIERS are still tooling around in billions upon billions of [currency] of public property that they do not, in fact, legally own.  We can add theft of public property, while abandoning worlds that had not yet surrendered or even yet acknowledged said surrender, which is desertion and dereliction of duty.

Their oaths are, therefore, absolute shit.  worthless, they cannot be trusted to uphold their contracts, since they did not leave those contracts in a legitimate fashion, they are in possession of military grade hardware with no legitimate reason to have it.

They are, by common definition, brigands, bandits, and possible Pirates.
« Last Edit: 25 November 2024, 13:28:16 by Cannonshop »
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #22 on: 25 November 2024, 13:56:34 »
We get it, you hate all ex-RAF members.
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Church14

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #23 on: 25 November 2024, 14:20:49 »
.
.
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You continue to build your theory on an assumption not backed by canon. The rest of the worlds shown as Republic in Shattered fortress (10 including Terra) were all conquered. FWL took 3, CapCon took 3, RasDom took 2. By April 3151, the Republic of the Sphere was down to two worlds, Terra and Northwind. That's covered in the end of ilClan.

Then Wolves took Terra, and Northwind seems to have declared independence.

There is no nation left to maintain loyalty to. Since the rest of your theory is based on bad data, I'll leave the rest to be reconsidered.

Cannonshop

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #24 on: 26 November 2024, 10:02:23 »
You continue to build your theory on an assumption not backed by canon. The rest of the worlds shown as Republic in Shattered fortress (10 including Terra) were all conquered. FWL took 3, CapCon took 3, RasDom took 2. By April 3151, the Republic of the Sphere was down to two worlds, Terra and Northwind. That's covered in the end of ilClan.

Then Wolves took Terra, and Northwind seems to have declared independence.

There is no nation left to maintain loyalty to. Since the rest of your theory is based on bad data, I'll leave the rest to be reconsidered.

That 'no nation left' is kind of the point.  They ran for Galatea instead of fighting for it.  They didn't even try...which says more about the martial qualities of these men, than anything you could name or imagine.  At its root, the RAF was faithless and feckless and willing to just give up.  That is not the qualtiies that you want in hired soldiers.
« Last Edit: 26 November 2024, 10:04:08 by Cannonshop »
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Church14

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #25 on: 26 November 2024, 11:14:31 »
That 'no nation left' is kind of the point.  They ran for Galatea instead of fighting for it.  They didn't even try...which says more about the martial qualities of these men, than anything you could name or imagine.  At its root, the RAF was faithless and feckless and willing to just give up.  That is not the qualtiies that you want in hired soldiers.
Every unit save one Fides formation is listed as having fought in the defense of prefecture X. Claiming they didn’t fight is factually wrong. Claiming they were faithless or feckless is also factually wrong. They fought until there was literally nothing left.

If you mean they didn’t “even” fight after their nation was dissolved, and they had no high level leadership above unit commanders that weren’t captured by wolves (or killed in combat or slaughtered by Falcons and CCAF), no source of equipment or recruits to replace losses, then you’re setting a bar no other group has ever been judged by before and likely never would be after. A bar the setting does not set. This feels like a conclusion looking for anything to support it.

Cannonshop

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #26 on: 26 November 2024, 12:53:41 »
Every unit save one Fides formation is listed as having fought in the defense of prefecture X. Claiming they didn’t fight is factually wrong. Claiming they were faithless or feckless is also factually wrong. They fought until there was literally nothing left.

If you mean they didn’t “even” fight after their nation was dissolved, and they had no high level leadership above unit commanders that weren’t captured by wolves (or killed in combat or slaughtered by Falcons and CCAF), no source of equipment or recruits to replace losses, then you’re setting a bar no other group has ever been judged by before and likely never would be after. A bar the setting does not set. This feels like a conclusion looking for anything to support it.

They're in the same position that German Empire Freikorps were in after the Kaiser surrendered, Church...and those units had, by definition, more connections to the people that hired them, than RAF units would have to any potential employers on Galatea.

They also had a uniformly terrible reputation despite any demonstrated martial prowess.  (look it up, it's interesting history).

Most of them ended up leaving it, or dying as criminals.  The next historical example being ex German and Waffen SS who went to work for the French in indochina-but those guys didn't abscond with billions of marks of public property or claim their 'heritage'-they were hiding who and what they had been, so the Freikorps example is probably the one closer to the spirit of the narrative.

In the case of your Star League example, THOSE guys went to work for portions of their empire-essentially picking sides in a civil war, that lends a dignity the RAF doesn't get to have because they're NOT serving successors to the Republic, they're hauling ass to go fight in foreign states for foreign coin while their families and close friends back home get to live under an invading occupation that is significantly less restrained when it comes to 'killing civilians to make a point'.

In essence, they've betrayed everyone who trusted them to go seek an easier fortune.  That, does not tune well with them being respected, or respectable, regardless of the justifications.

Gotta remember; the Republic didn't USE iron wombs and creche upbringing to raise their armies, these soldiers walked out on mothers, fathers, sons,  and daughters, wives and husbands and so on to go mercenary while they let the Wolves essentially conquer and oppress those people.

In a society (multple societies) based on feudalism, that's abandoning your kin,  which is kinda taboo.

Look at it as if you were hiring armed men, with good weapons and training.  The bigger ask is not 'how much do they cost?' it's "how far can I trust them?"
« Last Edit: 26 November 2024, 12:59:13 by Cannonshop »
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Church14

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #27 on: 26 November 2024, 13:22:36 »
You're adding significant headcanon and presenting it as lore.

- There's no example shown of ex-RAF abandoning families. The ones we've been shown in shrapnel were single or took their loved ones with.
- We have no idea how many just laid down arms and went home.
- We don't know how many have become a local resistance. Given the teased table of contents, the answer is apparently a lot higher than anyone on here guessed. (Including me)
- We don't know how many went merc. There's been one Shrapnel submission, written by the same guy who openly hated Stone and Republic, about how Galatea is swamped, and then nothing more.

There is no nation left to defend or betray since they already fought right up until it was gone. You're adding significantly to what's been written to reach a unique conclusion.
« Last Edit: 26 November 2024, 13:26:22 by Church14 »

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #28 on: 26 November 2024, 13:39:48 »
We also don’t know that any units outside the Terran system had the codes to get through the Fortress.  Should they have just tried to jump through annyway and all died?   If you’re stuck outside until word comes that the nation’s gone and Stone is dead, I can’t see anyone in the BT setting saying “Welp, we’re too late.  Guess we’ll just have to hand our Mechs to the Wolves and ask what lower caste they want us in.  All hail the ilKhan!”  Of course they went merc.  Some of Anton’s people did the same after Anton’s Revolt.  The Jihad hit right after the FCCW, but I wouldn’t be shocked if you could find Kat loyalists who left government service.  Some SIMC left the collapsing Compact with Free Capella or the 7th FedCom.  Of course former RAF who were stuck outside Terra aren’t lining up to join the Wolves.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Splinters of the Republic
« Reply #29 on: 26 November 2024, 14:27:11 »
You're adding significant headcanon and presenting it as lore.

- There's no example shown of ex-RAF abandoning families. The ones we've been shown in shrapnel were single or took their loved ones with.
- We have no idea how many just laid down arms and went home.
- We don't know how many have become a local resistance. Given the teased table of contents, the answer is apparently a lot higher than anyone on here guessed. (Including me)
- We don't know how many went merc. There's been one Shrapnel submission, written by the same guy who openly hated Stone and Republic, about how Galatea is swamped, and then nothing more.

There is no nation left to defend or betray since they already fought right up until it was gone. You're adding significantly to what's been written to reach a unique conclusion.

do you really think they were able to go home and collect them?

Couldn't have been that many, or you wouldn't see units of that size.

point.

Unless the authors want to go back and outright retcon, 'Galatea is swamped' means a lot of them-and again;  do you really think they had time/access to get their families out?

I don't.  But then, I'm a pessimist who often remembers things like "Jumpships take time to recharge", "FTL commo being down means you're relying on couriers" and those, also, take time (meaning lots of the big, coordinated offensives and instant knowledge will go unexplained and hopefully unnoticed by most of the readers, because this was DEFINITELY missed by the editors).

and still, I will reiterate; Looking at it from a potential Employer who also does not benefit from perfect omniscience, what is it going to look like?

"Your nation fell, you're standing here with a regiment of new machines in almost perfect condition...where were you? why should I trust you?"

"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

 

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