Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle  (Read 11379 times)

False Son

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #30 on: 28 March 2014, 11:07:52 »
I was thinking the Behemoth (Kurita) finally has a purpose. 
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nova_dew

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #31 on: 29 March 2014, 13:19:04 »
I think the DCMS missed a trick not armouring it with Balistic reinforced armour, half dammage from the counter battery fire is a nice thing.
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False Son

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #32 on: 29 March 2014, 14:47:23 »
Well, it is armored with Heavy Ferro, which was the best armor available at the time.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #33 on: 29 March 2014, 16:22:19 »
Actually Reactive armor would have done the job

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #34 on: 30 March 2014, 11:06:19 »
Well, it is armored with Heavy Ferro, which was the best armor available at the time.

I was more thinking for after ballistic reinforced was put into production, since they are the "hand made" Royles Royce of command vehicles
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #35 on: 30 March 2014, 12:05:50 »
Ballistic-Reinforced does nothing against artillery.  Only Reactive helps.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #36 on: 30 March 2014, 12:55:23 »
I'd rather stick with heavy Ferro, because my main concern would be enemy airstrikes.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #37 on: 31 March 2014, 07:42:09 »
Ballistic-Reinforced does nothing against artillery.  Only Reactive helps.

So many armours so little time

I'd rather stick with heavy Ferro, because my main concern would be enemy airstrikes.

two Arrow IV with 6 tons of ammo, more AMS than you can shake a stick at and your own Aerospace force kind of forces your opponent to choose what to go for, do you let the DC aerospace units get free skies so you can hunt down one unit or do you use some of your own big guns to take pot shots back after all it's more of a campain or large map unit... if i made any sense
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False Son

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #38 on: 31 March 2014, 08:14:48 »
It would depend on the amount of optional rules you are using.  If all the rules for communications equipment are in play, just by being on the table the Teppo gives your aerospace an edge by having an initiative bonus.  My assumption is that a combined air/ground int works that way, but admittedly, I'm fuzzy on aero in ground games.

I'm not 100% sold on the super heavy support vehicle concept and all the complications of the format.  Combining most of your battlefield command and support roles into a single vehicle has my vote for Cool Factor (the artwork is snazzy, too) but having to find bridges or shallows to cross this behemoth?  Not cool.  Having to stretch the armor over 2 additional hit locations?  Not cool.  But, at the moment it was published the Teppo was better than it's competition primarily by not having competition.  Nowadays I look at the other super heavy support vees and think the Teppo is on the losing end.  It's nice The Dragon decided their superheavy support vee was going to be artillery/command, especially when "tactics" are not really their thing.
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Alexander Knight

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #39 on: 31 March 2014, 11:57:45 »
two Arrow IV with 6 tons of ammo, more AMS than you can shake a stick at and your own Aerospace force kind of forces your opponent to choose what to go for, do you let the DC aerospace units get free skies so you can hunt down one unit or do you use some of your own big guns to take pot shots back after all it's more of a campain or large map unit... if i made any sense

First off, AMS doesn't help againsts bombs, lasers, PPCs, or autocannons so that's a non-issue.  That leaves two Arrow IV tubes, which can be unpleasant but still not unheard of for airstrikes to take down.  And heavier armor is useful there.

Moonsword

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #40 on: 31 March 2014, 12:01:35 »
If you're just coming to this now, I really do recommend going back and reading some of the exchanges I had with Welshman back in 2011.  He gave us some deeper insight into what he was thinking and why the Teppo turned out the way it did.  The article itself also has a lot of my own observations at the time when we didn't have any other measuring sticks.

One little bit of fine print in case you don't go back, though. [legal] The Tenmaku trailer is the one with the large stock of comms gear.  The Teppo doesn't have enough communications equipment to do much of anything special other than pick up soap operas from the civilian channels without tying up the commander's channel back to HQ.  Customarily, the DCMS apparently intended the Tenmaku to be hauled by a Teppo but it's not actually required by the game rules.  Whether the DCMS will see things as pragmatically as I do is your problem, of course. O:-)

Personally, I'm not a a big fan of the whole super-heavy concept or the trailers, not least because of the transport complications.  False Son's points about their practicality are also worth keeping in mind.  Many of these would-be colossi are also painfully slow.  This is all endemic to the type and can't really be held against the Teppo individually.  I just don't think the thing is worthwhile vs. breaking the functions back out into multiple smaller vehicles that can maneuver independently.

Where the Teppo suffers is being the first iteration of the super-heavy command/support unit concept and it didn't have either the profligate use of XLFEs seen in the 3145 round of TROs or some of the newer toys, being built largely with production-grade hardware that was on the market before or shortly into the Jihad.  I suspect that the design was deliberately conservative from the DCMS's perspective to avoid introducing too many major complications at once.  Out of game, TRO3085 was clearly much more conservative with the new TacOps toys than later TROs or even the units put together for RS3067 Unabridged.  With that in mind, the Teppo's design decisions come into clearer focus.

It's not a bad unit as an example of the type, especially since this was the one that went out there and proved the idea.  A lot of the basic features are still present on something like the Destrier, for instance.  The Teppo's role as a self-deployed artillery and command bunker gives it some capabilities that were unique for a few decades and the artillery fire from that one big vehicle is impressive.  Even if you are in the mindset of seeing it as a bunker, a Teppo doesn't suffer as badly from counter-battery fire as a real bunker would.  AE against buildings is horrifyingly effective.

Welshman

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #41 on: 31 March 2014, 22:38:03 »
We've absolutely learned a lot about super heavy design doctrine since 2011 (sweet Ghu has it really been three years?).

The Teppo was the very first forays into this realm. Three years on I am still very happy with it. Are super heavies a good idea? That's a whole other question. Is the Teppo good for the role it was designed for? I think so. Unlike the Desty, the Teppo was never intended to be "on" the battlefield. If your Mech battle gets with in two mapsheets of your Teppo, then something has gone horribly wrong.

The Desty on the other hand was designed to "be" the battlefield.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #42 on: 01 April 2014, 11:13:16 »
We've absolutely learned a lot about super heavy design doctrine since 2011 (sweet Ghu has it really been three years?).

The Teppo was the very first forays into this realm. Three years on I am still very happy with it. Are super heavies a good idea? That's a whole other question. Is the Teppo good for the role it was designed for? I think so. Unlike the Desty, the Teppo was never intended to be "on" the battlefield. If your Mech battle gets with in two mapsheets of your Teppo, then something has gone horribly wrong.

The Desty on the other hand was designed to "be" the battlefield.

Yeah, it's been that long.  Time flies when you're having fun.  (Is that what we've been having?)

As far as super-heavies go, we still only have a handful out there and I'm not sure how much farther the concepts have really gone.  I'm leaving the VTOLs out of this comparison.  Despite the significant difference in operational concepts, the Destrier and Teppo are probably the most similar when you look at the secondary features and adaptations, especially the layered secondary defenses and deterrents against missiles and infantry.  That's not something the Paladin or Gulltoppr really play up.  As for the Kalki, I see that mainly as a demonstration of the point that they should have just put the launcher on a DropShip to begin with instead of having to wheel it out of the bay so it can fire once, then trundle back in for more ammo.

Welshman

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #43 on: 01 April 2014, 14:59:09 »
Well I can promise that without a doubt, the next super heavy of mine to be released will look nothing like the Teppo and Desty.

When that product finally ships... (disclaimer: If it ships, this is in no way a promise of any future product)
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #44 on: 01 March 2015, 19:13:22 »
I have a bit of a problem with this design. Basically it's too light.

No I know some of you are looking at me strange but there is a method to my madness. A 200 ton trailer has just enough room to carry a full fledged transport bay, which is a far better choice for repairs then then a mere mobile field base.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #45 on: 01 March 2015, 19:15:09 »
I have a bit of a problem with this design. Basically it's too light.

No I know some of you are looking at me strange but there is a method to my madness. A 200 ton trailer has just enough room to carry a full fledged transport bay, which is a far better choice for repairs then then a mere mobile field base.

Whatever works for your game.

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ColBosch

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #46 on: 01 March 2015, 20:50:08 »
Whatever works for your game.

I do seem to recall trying to talk you into lightening it so it could be carried by a Tonbo. Of course, I didn't grok until you explained it that the entire point was the "superheavy" bit. Lesson learned: sometimes the boss is right. ;)

I like the Teppo, quite a bit. Even if it's not ideal for everyone's play styles, it's a very "flavorful" unit. It's perfectly mobile enough for a command unit and is certainly more survivable than a Mobile HQ. In 3025, when DropShips are near-LosTech, such a unit wouldn't be needed - just keep the 'Ship on the ground - but in the late and post-Jihad environment you really don't want your 'Ships sitting around making sitting ducks out of themselves.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #47 on: 01 March 2015, 21:48:17 »
What I like is that it basically redefines a 'kill the MHQ' scenario. Usually, 80% of that fight is getting through the escorts and catching the command truck. By the time you can start making any to-hit rolls against the HQ at all, you've almost beaten the scenario, the rest is little more than a formality unless the other guy can pull some really interesting tricks out of his hat.

When the HQ in question is a Teppo, the game is very different. Catching the truck is easy, and just about any balancing metric out there will result in lighter escorts for an equal give OPFOR, but getting eyes on the prize is just the start of the game. You've got a long slog ahead of you, especially if the Teppo can keep bringing those artillery pieces to bear against you.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #48 on: 01 March 2015, 23:02:27 »
A Teppo should have found some way to go hull down in a heavy forest and be covered in cameo netting, making it impossible to hit

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #49 on: 01 March 2015, 23:11:56 »
What rules allow this? Last I heard, heavy woods + wheeled vehicles = immobile target at best, and I can't think of any rules that work for camo netting, aside from simply making it a hidden unit. Hardly an impossible target.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #50 on: 01 March 2015, 23:40:45 »
Sorry was thinking more in general then specifics, but SuperHeavies can go hull down and how much does a 40 meter square of sneak suit, cameo material cost?

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #51 on: 01 March 2015, 23:53:01 »
Given that people come to *otW threads for ideas to use units in their games, let's stick to stuff the rules actually allow, please. Unless you're talking about hidden units, there are no rules for camo netting at this scale.

Hiding the command trailer is probably a good idea, but for the Teppo itself, I think it'd be far more productive to keep those big guns roaring, trying to actually kill the things trying to find you.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Teppō Support Vehicle
« Reply #52 on: 02 March 2015, 11:17:37 »
What I like is that it basically redefines a 'kill the MHQ' scenario. Usually, 80% of that fight is getting through the escorts and catching the command truck. By the time you can start making any to-hit rolls against the HQ at all, you've almost beaten the scenario, the rest is little more than a formality unless the other guy can pull some really interesting tricks out of his hat.

When the HQ in question is a Teppo, the game is very different. Catching the truck is easy, and just about any balancing metric out there will result in lighter escorts for an equal give OPFOR, but getting eyes on the prize is just the start of the game. You've got a long slog ahead of you, especially if the Teppo can keep bringing those artillery pieces to bear against you.

It's like a game of Ogre where the HQ in question is another, smaller Ogre.
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