Oldest (first) piece of BattleTech fiction?

[Frabby]

Just an idle thought I had, but I wonder what was the first in-universe bit of fiction ever published for BattleTech? [Edit: By fiction, I mean story fiction as in novels or short stories as opposed to lore or sourcebook prose.]

The BD/BT rulebook and the first scenarios had no fiction in them, just sourcebook-style descriptions of the BT universe.

After a bit of research, I figured the first BT fiction published must have been either the Decision at Thunder Rift novel, the The Spider and the Wolf graphic novel, or the A Tale of Two Cities/Life in the Big City fiction vignettes from the CityTech rulebook. These were all published in 1986 but I couldn't determine in which month except for DaTR which was reportedly published in June.

Anyone know more?

[Gladius-XC]

Someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the first novel was Sword and Dagger, which covered the plot to replace Hanse Davion with a double.  There is some issue with the family giving rights to Catalyst to get it reprinted, which is why it’s so obscure.

[Frabby]

That was indeed the first novel to be solicited for BattleTech, but it ended up being only the second to be published. It got delayed by issues and thus Decision at Thunder Rift beat it to the punch for first BT novel.

[Gorgon]

Sarna says that Tales of the Black Widow Company and The Fox's Teeth scenario books were both published in 1985, although no months are given. Black Widow has a lower product code, but that does not necessarily mean an earlier publishing date. And there was a FASA supplied preview scenario published in Game News in October 1985 as promo for Black Widow.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/List_of_BattleTech_products#Productshttps://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bitter_End:_The_Defense_of_Connor%27s_Pass

[Frabby]

Sarna says that Tales of the Black Widow Company and The Fox's Teeth scenario books were both published in 1985, although no months are given.

Correct, but neither these nor any other BT products from 1984 through 1986 contain fiction pieces in the sense of stories, with the exception of the three publications I highlighted in the OP. I am specifically looking for the first BT story to be published, and it seems to be one of these three.

[elf25s]

i dont have it anymore my wife the spite had destroyed the battledroid box. but i do recall small flier thing in it about world setting of what we come to now later as battletech...so i guess the first lore that started the world building was the sheet that was in battledroids

[Sartris]

There is indeed a six page setting primer in the battledroids box.

[ColBosch]

Just an idle thought I had, but I wonder what was the first in-universe bit of fiction ever published for BattleTech? [Edit: By fiction, I mean story fiction as in novels or short stories as opposed to lore or sourcebook prose.]

The BD/BT rulebook and the first scenarios had no fiction in them, just sourcebook-style descriptions of the BT universe.

After a bit of research, I figured the first BT fiction published must have been either the Decision at Thunder Rift novel, the The Spider and the Wolf graphic novel, or the A Tale of Two Cities/Life in the Big City fiction vignettes from the CityTech rulebook. These were all published in 1986 but I couldn't determine in which month except for DaTR which was reportedly published in June.

Anyone know more?

I'll have to hunt for the (very old) catalogs, but I do recall that Spider and the Wolf just beat out Decision at Thunder Rift in the retailer solicitations, but Thunder Rift probably hit shops first due to the difference between book and game distribution. If I am remembering correctly - and no guarantees, these are twenty year old memories of something that had happened twenty years before I did the research - CityTech was a Christmas release.

(And folks, Frabby is asking for story fiction, not pseudo-history. We all know the first worldbuilding was in Battledroids.)

[Pat Payne]

I'm fairly certain the first novel also was Decision at Thunder Rift. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the reason The Sword and the Dragon was delayed was because Tracy and Laura Hickman, and possibly Margaret Weis as well, were supposed to write the novel but they had to bow out due to conflicting contractual commitments to TSR for Dragonlance and so passed on the contract to the ultimate author. IIRC, it was that irregularity that's prevented the novel from being republished.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Decision at Thunder Rift was always labeled the first Battletech novel.

From Sarna regarding the writing of The Sword & The Dagger:

Writing BattleTech: The Sword and the Dagger

Ardath Mayhar wrote a very short essay about writing the novel that was published via BattleCorps on 12 February 2006 as Writing BattleTech: The Sword and the Dagger. According to the essay, Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis had originally been contracted by FASA to write the novel and had created a ten-page synopsis of their suggestion for the story, but backed out of the deal when they found a better deal elsewhere. Ardath Mayhar's publisher arranged for their contract to be transferred to her in 1986. Mayhar then received a boardgame package to provide her with details on the universe background. She also got the earlier story synopsis but felt it would not work well as written. She then rewrote it, keeping only the basic idea—the substitution of a Successor Lord for a body double by his enemies.

According to her, "Walter Keith [sic], author of the first novel" (apparently referring to William H. Keith, Jr.), was brought in to help her out in writing combat scenes that did not involve 'Mechs, because personal weapons were not covered in the available background material.

[ColBosch]

I really think people are missing who started this thread.

[Frabby]

I really think people are missing who started this thread.

:)  It's okay ColBosch. It was a long shot question to begin with. Yours was the closest thing I could expect to get for an answer, so thank you for that.

[ColBosch]

:)  It's okay ColBosch. It was a long shot question to begin with. Yours was the closest thing I could expect to get for an answer, so thank you for that.

I am actively trying to track down old sellsheets, press releases, and catalogs so I can nail down some more of the early history of BattleTech myself. The problem is that the mid-80s saw an explosion of new games and BattleTech was very much one (initially) tiny property among many, so a lot of that trace evidence is long-gone or in the hands of people who are disinclined to share it.

[Cannonshop]

I am actively trying to track down old sellsheets, press releases, and catalogs so I can nail down some more of the early history of BattleTech myself. The problem is that the mid-80s saw an explosion of new games and BattleTech was very much one (initially) tiny property among many, so a lot of that trace evidence is long-gone or in the hands of people who are disinclined to share it.

First real 'golden age' of gaming was the mid eighties, wasn't it?  ISTR that RPG's and tabletop were in the news and I actually think a lot of it was the 'satanic panic' and teevee movies like "Mazes and Monsters" that drove up interest in the hobby.

Kind of the way the PMRC sold records in the same timeframe.   

First ad I ever saw for Battletech wasn't even for Battletech, and it was in the back of an issue of Marvel's Star Wars comic.  Had a static image of a WHM-6R, and named some of the iconic first generation 'mechs by name (I can't recall all of it, I was a KID...)

I can't remember the NAME of the first fiction I saw for Battletech, but it was a short story-but that's a couple three years AFTER Decision at Thunder Rift came out...and it was probably something that would qualify as "Fan Fiction" anyway.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

I really think people are missing who started this thread.

Didn’t want to say anything myself, just wanted to watch because I was laughing a bit

Sorry it’s a useless post I have nothing to contribute here: please carry on your excellent work!

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I really think people are missing who started this thread.

I suppose that statement means something to some people.

[Sartris]

He is a key figure for a website people of this community probably have heard of

Also he's the pope

[GRUD]

I'm fairly certain the first novel also was Decision at Thunder Rift. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the reason The Sword and the Dragon was delayed was because Tracy and Laura Hickman, and possibly Margaret Weis as well, were supposed to write the novel but they had to bow out due to conflicting contractual commitments to TSR for Dragonlance and so passed on the contract to the ultimate author. IIRC, it was that irregularity that's prevented the novel from being republished.

I've heard that Ardath Mayhar didn't like it, and didn't want it reprinted.  As a result, her Children/Estate have honored her wishes and not allowed it when they were asked as well. 

[ColBosch]

I've heard that Ardath Mayhar didn't like it, and didn't want it reprinted.  As a result, her Children/Estate have honored her wishes and not allowed it when they were asked as well. 

In the one interview I've seen with her, she said she wasn't sure why Sword and Dagger wasn't reprinted.

[Frabby]

In the one interview I've seen with her, she said she wasn't sure why Sword and Dagger wasn't reprinted.

In her BC essay she said she would like the book to be re-published again, but that it was out of her hands.
I read… somewhere… that the problem is the contract under which the book was written. It seems to be different from all other BT fiction contracts. Remember, she took over a contract from Hickman and Weis.

I understood the problem to be contract clauses that either limit FASA's rights to the novel (like, not including digital publication rights), and/or make reprints prohibitively expensive. And the bit about the issue being out of her control suggests to me that a third party is involved.

[Frabby]

He is a key figure for a website people of this community probably have heard of

Also he's the pope

Pope? I think you’re mixing me up with someone else there.
But yes, full disclosure, I wrote most of the Sarna content that got quoted above.

[Dave Talley]

I would love to see a battle corps anthology reprinting
as much of these earlier stories as possible,
Of course this would hinge on who as the rights
and if it drastically needs re-editing etc

[ColBosch]

I would love to see a battle corps anthology reprinting
as much of these earlier stories as possible,
Of course this would hinge on who as the rights
and if it drastically needs re-editing etc

The original Shrapnel desperately needs a reprint.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

I would love to see a battle corps anthology reprinting
as much of these earlier stories as possible,
Of course this would hinge on who as the rights
and if it drastically needs re-editing etc

They are: they’ve reprinted Book One: The Corps IIRC.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

In the one interview I've seen with her, she said she wasn't sure why Sword and Dagger wasn't reprinted.

I'm pretty sure one of the line developers stated that it was due to the convoluted rights issue.

[ColBosch]

They are: they’ve reprinted Book One: The Corps IIRC.

He means the very early (1980s) stories, like the vignettes from the old rulebooks and such.

[Kithran]

:)  It's okay ColBosch. It was a long shot question to begin with. Yours was the closest thing I could expect to get for an answer, so thank you for that.

I own hardcopys of both Sword and Dagger and Tales of the Black Widow so I can check what the copyright details on each say - unfortunately the only copy of Decision at Thunder Rift I have is the UK Roc Reprint so shouldn't be considered definitive. Let me know if this would be useful to you.

[Frabby]

I own hardcopys of both Sword and Dagger and Tales of the Black Widow so I can check what the copyright details on each say - unfortunately the only copy of Decision at Thunder Rift I have is the UK Roc Reprint so shouldn't be considered definitive. Let me know if this would be useful to you.

It would certainly be good info to have, but unfortunately copyright details do not necessarily indicate publication order, or any exact time of publication. In the early FASA years we've seen many products bear a copyright imprint stating the year before they actually hit the shelves.

[Sartris]

I have the original FASA catalogs from that point. Those aren't definitive either (the original house book schedule was AGGRESSIVE) but they would provide direction for trying to hunt down distributor or store sell sheets

[Sartris]

SO! According to the FASA 1986 Fall Catalog, Thunder Rift was slated for a June 1986 release while The Sword and the Dagger was supposed to drop in July. Sarna claims April of 1986 for the latter so it would require some distributor records to sort out.