SLDF - 173rd Mechanized ID

[Iron Grenadier]

So I came across this by accident while reading the SLDF Field Manual pg 161 -

The 173rd Mechanized Infantry Division has been focusing on combined-arms actions recently. Where standard SLDF organization has infantry and BattleMechs in different regiments, General Logan has had his battalions work as mixed groups.


This sounds pretty interesting to me. I think a fairly straight forward mix would be a single 'Mech Company along with two Infantry Companies. My questions to everyone would be, each SLDF infantry battalion has a single armor company attached. So keep a armor company attached to each battalion, leaving about a third or so of the unit without? Or organize the armor into a separate cavalry style regiment?


Side note - according to Sarna we have no indication of what happened to the 173rd.

[Hellraiser]

1.  Not sure if that "Battalions" should be read as "Mixed Battalions" or Battalions working as "Mixed Regiments"

2.  Either way I think your ratio is good,  1 Mech, 1 Vehicle, 2 Infantry per "organization".

3.  Figure out what your "Armor" is for starters.   Remember, all SLDF Armor Brigades are Pure-Regiments & likely have at least "some" focus so at best your probably looking at a 2-1 "similar/different" unit composition.
For Example.   Manticore Regiment, Von Luckner Regiment,  +  "Medium Hover/Light Tank" Regiment
Your not likely to get Alacorns + Magi + Beagles as the 3 Regiments is what I'm saying.

4.  So once you've decided on your 1-3 Tank Types total, then you can look at how you want them assigned.
Maybe you have Heavy Tanks &/or APCs assigned to work directly with the Infantry Brigades BUT, you keep the Vedette/Lightning Regiment to operate in conjunction with faster mech forces.

5.  The units listed as "Unknown" are IIRC usually the ones that joined C*.
Which would be a great reason for the CG eventually being so "Mixed" walla, history solved :)

[Moriarty74]

I think this would work best focusing on either a heavy/assault unit or on a more maneuverable striker style unit.  So Thugs, Highlanders, Atlases paired with Alacorns, Manticores, and Pumas with heavy weapon team infantry or go with Quickdraws, Wolverines, Phoenix Hawks, Griffins basically faster jump capable mechs, jump or regular infantry in Cobra transport VTOLs, and Lightnings, Condors, and Cyranos for the armor component.  Trying to mix heavy and fast together just gets the unit spread out and unable to support itself.  It'd work a lot like a RCT or LRCT but just need to keep it focused on the TOE.

[Hellraiser]

jump or regular infantry in Cobra transport VTOLs, and Lightnings, Condors, and Cyranos for the armor component.  Trying to mix heavy and fast together just gets the unit spread out and unable to support itself.  It'd work a lot like a RCT or LRCT but just need to keep it focused on the TOE.

Remember, this is a Mechanized ID.

Motorized Infantry &/or Mechanized Infantry

Foot & Jump both have their own divisions.

That said as far as size, each Infantry Brigade does have a Light Mech Battalion attached to it.
And the Division has a Medium Mech Battalion as part of Division Command.

But the 3 Line regiments could be any of the 3 types, though, some focus v/s 1 of each size, would make sense.

[Iron Grenadier]

So just kind of tinkering around a bit -

Battalion "A" - Assault
'Mech Company:  12 Awesome's
Armor Company: 12 Demolisher's
Infantry Comp 1: 3 'Rifle' Platoons + 4 Turhan's
Infantry Comp 2: 3 'Rifle' Platoons + 4 Turhan's

I'm thinking subtract one squad from each rifle platoon to place in the 4th Turhan.

The Awesome advances with the Demolishers acting as bodyguards. Infantry mop up.

Battalion "B" - Battle
'Mech Company:  12 Thunderbolt's
Armor Company: 12 Manticore's
Infantry Comp 1: 3 'Rifle' Platoons + 4 Turhan's
Infantry Comp 2: 3 'Rifle' Platoons + 4 Turhan's

Battalion "C" - Fire Support
'Mech Company:  12 Longbow's
Armor Company: 12 Alacorn's
Infantry Comp 1: 3 'Rifle' Platoons + 4 Turhan's
Infantry Comp 2: 3 'Rifle' Platoons + 4 Turhan's

[Moriarty74]

I suppose I was imagining it as something with more movement and flexibility.

Battalion "A"
Mech Company: 8 Guillotines, 4 Catapults
Armor Company: 8 Manticores, 4 Chaparrals
Infantry Company 1: 3 "Rifle" Platoons in Goblins
Infantry Company 2: 3 "Rifle" Platoons in Goblins

Nice similar movement profile with built in supporting fire in the companies so able to have a nice balanced attack but still able to outrun heavier opponents.  Only other thing it might need is a lance of Beagles to scout and target for the LRMs and Arrow IVs.  It would be also be possible to put one of the three Rifle Platoons in each Infantry Company in Packrats instead of Goblins to fulfill that scouting/spotting role instead of the added Beagles.

[Iron Grenadier]

I suppose I was imagining it as something with more movement and flexibility.

Battalion "A"
Mech Company: 8 Guillotines, 4 Catapults
Armor Company: 8 Manticores, 4 Chaparrals
Infantry Company 1: 3 "Rifle" Platoons in Goblins
Infantry Company 2: 3 "Rifle" Platoons in Goblins

Nice similar movement profile with built in supporting fire in the companies so able to have a nice balanced attack but still able to outrun heavier opponents.  Only other thing it might need is a lance of Beagles to scout and target for the LRMs and Arrow IVs.  It would be also be possible to put one of the three Rifle Platoons in each Infantry Company in Packrats instead of Goblins to fulfill that scouting/spotting role instead of the added Beagles.

I really like that. Yeah a Command Company could be added with a lance each of Mechs, Vehicles and maybe infantry or aerospace.

I'm thinking 3 combined arms battalions for assault missions making up a single regiment, another regiment or two with battalions like you have here maybe

[Moriarty74]

For a combined arms regiment, I'd say most likely would be a battlemech battalion and two mech infantry battalions.  Going by the SLDF manual page 15 each mech infantry battalion would have an attached company of scouting hover vehicles.  So perhaps something like the following with the Riflemen for aerospace defense of the command company and the aerospace attached for ground attack.

Command Company
Mech Lance: Cyclops, Thug, 2 Riflemans
Tank Platoon: 4 Fury Command Tanks
2 Infantry Platoons: "Rifle" Platoons in Goblins
2 Aerospace Flights: 4 Rapier aerospace fighters
Support Platoon: HQ Command Vehicle, 3 MASH units

Battalion "A"
Mech Company: 8 Guillotines, 4 Catapults
Mech Company: 8 Guillotines, 4 Catapults
Mech Company: 12 Phoenix Hawks

Battalion "B"
Armor Company: 8 Manticores, 4 Chaparrals
Infantry Company 1: 3 "Rifle" Platoons in Goblins
Infantry Company 2: 3 "Rifle" Platoons in Goblins
Attached Company of Lightning Hover Vehicles

Battalion "C"
Armor Company: 8 Manticores, 4 Chaparrals
Infantry Company 1: 3 "Rifle" Platoons in Goblins
Infantry Company 2: 3 "Rifle" Platoons in Goblins
Attached Company of Lightning Hover Vehicles

Or something along those lines but could go heavier or lighter based on what sort of speed you have planned for the unit.

[Hellraiser]

As far as historical accuracy.........

1.  Mech Companies are Pure in Line Divisions.  (As are many Battalions & even a few Regiment examples)
2.  Mixed Lances is purely an Independent Regiment kind of thing.
3.  I don't think you'd see those IFVs in there either, that is all Foot Infantry, Mechanized IDs have Motor/Mecha, not Foot.



A "battle" formation might be...
Guillotine Company
Manticore Company
2 Motorized Companies  (3 Laser Rifle Platoons, 3 SRM Platoons)

[Daryk]

At the Division level, I think "Mechanized" is flexible enough to do what he's looking at.

[Hellraiser]

At the Division level, I think "Mechanized" is flexible enough to do what he's looking at.

Where are those IFVs coming from?

The Armor Brigade isn't even standard in the SLDF, it was a different symbol IIRC in the SLSB, not actually armor, and is discarded in all later fluff as not being there or being a rare add on to bolster for defense.

There is a formation of 60 vehicles below for 36 mechs, that isn't supported in SLDF formations.

I mean, do what you want for your game, I'm just answering that it isn't historically accurate.

[Daryk]

There's plenty of hardware that simply isn't listed in the SLSB that could very easily be there.

[Iron Grenadier]

So as I understand it from page 12 of FM:SLDF -

A division in the Regular Army consists of three brigades of three regiments each, plus reserves, a ground aero wing and support units.

That "plus reserves" could add a lot of different options possibly.


Anyway the 173rd is a Mechanized Infantry Division -
1 Battlemech Brigade of 3 Line Regiments
1 Infantry Brigade of 3 mechanized infantry regiments
1 Infantry Brigade of 3 mechanized infantry regiments
1 Artillery Regiment

Page 15 of FM:SLDF has this to say -
Each regiment, like other SLDF regiments, is organized with three battalions of three companies each. Companies are broken up into three platoons. A mechanized infantry regiment is the most powerful infantry formation; each platoon is supported by an infantry fighting vehicle, often the ubiquitous Goblin or a comparable IFV. In addition, each battalion usually has an attached armor company

So we got 27 infantry platoons per regiment and 6 total regiments. That's 162 IFV's
Then 18 infantry battalions total gives us a total of 18 armor companies or two regiments worth of total armor

Assuming I'm mathing correctly anyway. Someone let me know if this looks correct please?

[eaglenine2]

The OG Star League Source Book has the Division having a Armored Brigade of two armored regiments and a air defense regiment?

[Daryk]

IG: 162 is correct by those numbers.  They've never given us an SLDF or Royal Goblin, but one could easily carry a platoon if they simply switch to a fusion engine.  I made up a couple (linked in my sig block).

[Iron Grenadier]

The OG Star League Source Book has the Division having a Armored Brigade of two armored regiments and a air defense regiment?

As a separate command within the division?

[Iron Grenadier]

IG: 162 is correct by those numbers.  They've never given us an SLDF or Royal Goblin, but one could easily carry a platoon if they simply switch to a fusion engine.  I made up a couple (linked in my sig block).

I've got a separate bookmark for it! 

[Daryk]

Excellent, thanks! :)

[Hellraiser]

A division in the Regular Army consists of three brigades of three regiments each, plus reserves, a ground aero wing and support units.

That "plus reserves" could add a lot of different options possibly.

That's the Armor brigade that is on the chart in SLSB but then rarely ever mentioned & got a fluff notation about being attached sometimes.

1 Battlemech Brigade of 3 Line Regiments
1 Infantry Brigade of 3 mechanized infantry regiments
1 Infantry Brigade of 3 mechanized infantry regiments
1 Artillery Regiment

IIRC your missing a few other things.  I want to say over to the right beside Artillery was 2 other regiments?
Recon/LAM/Scouts?  I think there is a regiment over to the right on the chart
Engineers?  Same as above. 

Don't have books near me to verify.

Also, IIRC every Infantry Brigade has a Light Mech Battalion that I mentioned up thread.
With a Medium Mech Battalion at Division Command.
So you end up with a total of 4 regiments worth of mechs.

Page 15 of FM:SLDF has this to say -
A mechanized infantry regiment is the most powerful infantry formation; each platoon is supported by an infantry fighting vehicle, often the ubiquitous Goblin or a comparable IFV. In addition, each battalion usually has an attached armor company[/b]

That's new, wasn't mentioned in SLSB IIRC.

Assuming I'm mathing correctly anyway. Someone let me know if this looks correct please?

[Hellraiser]

The OG Star League Source Book has the Division having a Armored Brigade of two armored regiments and a air defense regiment?

As a separate command within the division?

That might be the Armor Brigade w/ the funny symbol from the OG-SLSB.   2 Tank & 1 ADA would be a brigade & maybe the symbol was ADA.

[Hellraiser]

IG: 162 is correct by those numbers.  They've never given us an SLDF or Royal Goblin, but one could easily carry a platoon if they simply switch to a fusion engine.  I made up a couple (linked in my sig block).

I've got a separate bookmark for it! 

You don't even need a custom Fusion.
There is a canon Goblin(MG) with 5 ton bay enough for Foot & extra supplies.

Which actually works quite nicely given the SL penchant for having lots of Cargo Space on those Warships.   Logistics > Tactics
Also helps for things like Company/Battalion "Command Squads" that might be an unseen part of the TO&E.
There there are "attached people" like Scouts, Medics, Forward Observers, Heavy Weapon Teams, Mechanics, or anyone else that happens to need to tag along.

[Iron Grenadier]

So question then, should the original SLSB be used in addition to the FM:SLDF? Seems like there's a disconnect maybe between the two?

[Daryk]

The MG Goblin variant is supposedly only Kuritan.

[Iron Grenadier]

So concentrating on what is known for sure - the 'Mech Brigade!

We got a total of three regiments to play with here, so got a couple of thoughts.

One is a balanced approach and have one each regiment type -
Heavy Assault, heavy and assault weight 'Mech's, with a extra artillery company each battalion
Battle, medium and heavy 'Mech's.
Striker, light and medium 'Mech's, with organic aerial assets (a full company of LAM's and pairs of aerospace fighters - I assume the old 'air lance' option)

2nd option would be a heavy hitter and have -
1 Heavy Assault regiment
2 Battle regiments

3rd option would be -
1 Battle regiment
2 Striker regiments

Thoughts?

[Daryk]

I vote for the balanced approach! :)

[Hellraiser]

The MG Goblin variant is supposedly only Kuritan.

I see that on the MUL, but makes no sense given the other 3 models are all SL Gen, Mercs, IS Gen, etc etc.
Doubly weird since we don't have a single DC factory for the Goblin.

[Daryk]

I agree it's weird... the MG version is USEFUL! :)

[Iron Grenadier]

Ok so 'Mech options for the Heavy Assault Regiment -


http://masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=90&EraId=10

Just some options - wondering what designs, if any, should be at battalion level in number's?

Pillager 3Z
Highlander 732
Emperor 5A/6A
Stalker 3F
Awesome 8Q
Thug 11E

Black Knight BL6
Archer 2R
Warhammer 6Rb
Guillotine 3N
Shootist 8A
Crusader 1R/2R/3R
Thunderbolt 5S
Galahad 2D

[Daryk]

My vote is for Pillagers, Highlanders and Awesomes, oh my! :D

[Moriarty74]

Hard to go wrong with Thugs and Highlanders being screened by Guillotines with Archers for supporting fire.