The Mount: Home of Clan Stone Lion

[cold1]

So yeah, looks like Thor, Hellbringers and the ubiquitous Mad Dog...Perhaps a Blood Asp or two? Maybe the Star Adders were kind with some salvage in building the new Clan Kittens up?...

The Adders may let them trial for some of their equipment.  The Lions have numerous mech facilities in their holdings.  Not sure what is still standing and operational, but they have potential to build from.  They share numerous worlds with the Cobras and Yotes so they should be able to easily fight some trials there for resources.  It already sounds like their warriors are first rate.

All in all I think the Lions may out pace the Yotes in rebuilding and I would not be surprised if in 50 years they are the second biggest home clan.

[Knightmare]

We'll probably find out with a FM or FR later on?...I'm hoping for something larger than a DD, but that's asking for a lot.

[Ruger]

We'll probably find out with a FM or FR later on?...I'm hoping for something larger than a DD, but that's asking for a lot.

IIRC, there are still several Sovetskii Soyuz, a pair of Kimagure's, many Essex that have not really been accounted for (although it can be assumed that many were lost before and during Operation Klondike, and with the Annhiliation or Absorbtion of various Clans)...and then, there are the other SL era ships that apparently joined the Exodus (as shown by those that show up in WoR)...

Ruger

[Knightmare]

IIRC, there are still several Sovetskii Soyuz, a pair of Kimagure's, many Essex that have not really been accounted for (although it can be assumed that many were lost before and during Operation Klondike, and with the Annhiliation or Absorbtion of various Clans)...and then, there are the other SL era ships that apparently joined the Exodus (as shown by those that show up in WoR)...

Ruger

Yeah, but it also seemed like the individual Clan caches were super small and in a bad way. I mean the Bandits were making a grab for old Clan Mongoose ships...and the DS were trying to snag what they could, although their efforts seemed time sensitive and may not be indicative of the full extent of the remaining clan ships.

Makes me wonder what exactly is left and what shape it's in. I don't know if the homeworld Clans have much left in the way of readily repairable cached WarShips, and with few yards left...,well the remaining vessels might be far off from functional or even useful.

Dunno. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
 

[ANS Kamas P81]

The Cobras brought specifically two SovSoys out of mothballs, Damascus and Budapest.  Whether they're the same as the Horses' two that are referenced as needing Cobra help is questionable at best, but not impossible.  I'm going through Klondike to mine for data and compare any ships the Horses have or capture, and then try and see what gets killed off since.

Though I imagine the Warship List guys have done that already, so I'll look there first.

[Hawkeye Jim]

There are a couple of entires concerning the warship caches.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Meanwhile...well, Septicemia is generally agreed to be a possible-to-use ride.

Wow, really? The Society's flagship OmniMech wouldn't carry too much stigma?

[ANS Kamas P81]

Wow, really? The Society's flagship OmniMech wouldn't carry too much stigma?

There were a LOT of them, it isn't that crazy as far as technology, and frankly I called the Seppy a Stormcrow II the moment I got to the entry on the Pariah in TRO 3075.  And if you have salvage, especially when there isn't much else to use and you're a brand new Clan, I think those who would be annoyed would say little.  I mean, hey, it's only technology - things that SHOULD have belonged to the Warrior Caste by right; it's simply been taken from the Scientist's hands and put where it belongs.  It isn't the fault of the machine that its designer was a traitor.

Pragmatic, admittedly, but I'm talking about a Clan made from the remains of a single Galaxy and an evacuated holding.  We're a bit on the "nommable" side for a while, and I would roll with it personally.

[cold1]

The light and the assault will probably disappear or be refitted because they don't adhere to clan dueling very well.

Also, I think the Nova CEWS thing will be a DoDo Bird

[Moonsword]

There were a LOT of them, it isn't that crazy as far as technology, and frankly I called the Seppy a Stormcrow II the moment I got to the entry on the Pariah in TRO 3075.  And if you have salvage, especially when there isn't much else to use and you're a brand new Clan, I think those who would be annoyed would say little.  I mean, hey, it's only technology - things that SHOULD have belonged to the Warrior Caste by right; it's simply been taken from the Scientist's hands and put where it belongs.  It isn't the fault of the machine that its designer was a traitor.

They haven't historically held that position.  They weren't in such desperate straits then, either.  I think we'll see it called the Pariah again, though.

[ANS Kamas P81]

I imagine it might get renamed as well.  REALLY can't wait for FR: Clans; that might give some hints...but y'know, to go from a Galaxy of beat-down secondliners and solahma under Bear isorla...to a two-Galaxy force (one of which is overstrength!) then I have to be impressed.  Either Tokasha's in great shape or they're running around pushing the limits declaration Stan made, and doing everything they can to build up force while they're still under Adder protection.

[cold1]

WoR comments on them trialing for not just warriors but those warrior's entire star from other clans and having success.
They are building fast.  I would not be shocked if 50-75 BT years from 3085 the Stone Lion's are top dog they simply have the potential.

[Rael]

To be honest I'd be surprised if they overtook the Star Adders. I think the Stone Lions would be doing well if they built up to be an average sized Clan (7 Galaxies, 35 Clusters). I'd expect the Cloud Cobras to at least match that.


Liking the official paint scheme btw. The close-ups on the Summoner show it off well.

[cold1]

I think the next time we see the home world clans things will be different.

I think what we considered a "big" clan touman pre-Reaving will be half the size of what we see in 75-100 years.  I know the 3085 home worlds are wrecked but look what the clans built before and look at those odds against these:
1.) Only 4 clans now, less squabbling for resources, more to go around
2.) Better cooperation... much better
3.) All clans are pragmatic and intelligent planners... the level headed clans survived.
4.) 1 major power that is thinking long term about growing all the clans with a goal of being able to re-invade (remember this is the Adders who didn't get in the first invasion cuz they bid, ya know, garrison forces and support equipment geared to a long invasion)
5.) You don't have to hide, they can raid periphery states regularly cuz the IS knows where they are.  Also, with IS clans ban on returning no one is coming to visit
6.) Potential, they have half what they had when the clans started, so that means they are ahead of the curve.
7.) Advance tech, remember they have advanced Star League tech for lots of things, not just war machines
8.) New dynamic leaders.  Maybe it's just me but it seems like the crop of Khans at the end of the WoR is thinking about a lot more things than fighting wars and who has the best honor.  If they adapt to some areas like they have to cooperating, increasing Watches and so forth they can grow exponentially.

OK [soapbox] I'll get down now

[Stingray]

Honestly I would expect almost everything in the Clan Homeworlds in their forces. Plenty of violence and salvage to go around.

For a growing Clan I'm sure they will not refuse any salvage (even Society equipment which I would bet would be mostly in garrison units.)

[ANS Kamas P81]

Don't count on the Stone Lions having much in the way of leadership anytime soon.  They're definitely the junior member of the Homeworlds; if they did reach a point of "getting too uppity" and attempting to challenge the superiority of the others - especially the Adders - then they'll find themselves cold and alone soon.

They'll build up, sure, but I don't see them really shaking things up for a long while.  Maybe in a dozen Clan generations, but...frankly, the Adders have enough ships to take on all three of the other Clans' navies simultaenously and win.  There's still some serious orbital beatsticks, and they also sit on over a third of all 26 extant homeworlds.  They're the ilClan for the moment.

[cold1]

I just reread my post and realize I ignored Naval power... that might be a problem for all but the Adders

[ANS Kamas P81]

I admit I was a little surprised.  BUT!

A plumbing of Klondike reveals a possible identity of ONE of the future Stone Lion WarShips.  The Aegis-class Minotaur provided fire support for the Horses in the Pentagon campaign, but doesn't appear in their entry in FMCC (no Aegis at all, so it wasn't renamed).  Either it was sunk sometime after Klondike, lost to another Clan, or mothballed - and if the latter, possibly one of the ships that is due for recommissioning.

I don't think the Adders would mind it that much - after all, they've still got a Mickey and a Nightlord, so...

[Knightmare]

The Adders will have to seriously "mess up" to lose their current advantage. Not only do they have the moral high ground (for all that counts) against the Coyotes, the Lions have their very existence and the right to manifest destiny thanks to the Adders. Only the Cobras really stand apart in terms of "owing" the Adders (well, Tanis aside...) Still, this situation might only last a generation or two tops. Once the dust settles and things normalize homeworld space will possibly go two routes.

1. Status quo - nominal alignments/allies when it suites
2. Adders take a proactive stance to play buddy with everyone and encourage cooperation - Klondike style (there's some historical precedence there.)

Either way, it'll be neat to see the Stone Lions develop as an entity. Even owning the Adders their independence won't influence the internal culture much except to avoid whatever the Adder's finally determine as "taint."

Heck, they might even publish a list.  ;)

[cold1]

The Adders are clan unity, they want everyone working together so I see them helping the Lions there.
The Cobras owe the Adders too

I think the taint thing died with the Vipers.  The other clans were moving away from it when the Society hit.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Considering things, one could say that this was the Clans' version of the Pentagon situation.  And now there's just the few of them that are left, controlling what remains of the place, after a truly brutal sundering of society.  I picture something like a revisit to Kerensky's ideology among the Eight Khans, follow in his literal footsteps on Strana Mechty, explore his words and codify principles once more, just as he did in those times of the Second Exodus.

I'd call it a Third Exodus, perhaps, but they're sort of already there with the slaughter part already handled.  So to "assure purity" and "prevent further taint" they revisit the founder's words and places, reliving the kind of gatherings.

I kinda like the idea...

[Col.Hengist]

  Sounds like a mutual admiration society to me. Don't take what i'm saying wrong...i'm not hating on the new society going on. I haven't read the book yet and i'm waiting on that before i give my final decision.

 To me it sounds like the Adders are doing what the Spirits should have been doing all along...hmmm epiphany for me.

[Stingray]

  Sounds like a mutual admiration society to me. Don't take what i'm saying wrong...i'm not hating on the new society going on. I haven't read the book yet and i'm waiting on that before i give my final decision.

 To me it sounds like the Adders are doing what the Spirits should have been doing all along...hmmm epiphany for me.

I think that is the irony of the situation...

[Hersh67]

I think the remaining Clans will have to fundamentally change how they handle things.  After all, the homeworlds are now well known.  And not by just the friendlies.  The remaining HW Clans have to realize there are a lot of folks out there who know where they live and don't particularly like them.

This dictates a much more cooperative enviroment.  The sort of effort that evaporated during the Political Century.  They are going to have to work together just to survive.  And BTW, with Diamond Shark out of the homeworlds, HarJel might be there, but it's possible they 'lost the recipe'.  I doubt the Sharks/Sea Foxes are going to be willing to give it to them. 

[ANS Kamas P81]

  Sounds like a mutual admiration society to me. Don't take what i'm saying wrong...i'm not hating on the new society going on. I haven't read the book yet and i'm waiting on that before i give my final decision.

Speculation.  And taken from the religious ideas of "our orthodoxy is getting a bit scattered, we need to sit down and codify/define/remind ourselves" - add that to the Cult of Personality and the utter nightmare of "tainted vs not tainted" they just went through, purity's going to be a big thing.  I can see a need to go back to Kerensky to pimp out the "We're Totally Not Corrupt" in a big way...

...after a few decades it'll start to slump away, as they get socially comfortable with relaxing a little, but I imagine something rather 1984esque; we have always been allied with Coyote, Star Adder has always been our enemy THIS BAD STUFF HAPPENED DON'T EVER FORGET TWO MINUTES HATE AND KERENSKY BLESS OUR WARRIORS WHO LOVE AND GUARD US also we have always been allied with Star Adder, Coyote has always been our enemy

[Stormlion1]

The creation of the Stone Lions was a fiction to keep a faction from being annihilated for having a Inner Sphere taint, which is a good thing for the number of factions left in the Homeworlds is exceedingly small now. I'm hoping that the Adders and the other Clans will over the years break sections of themselves off and "recreate" lost Clans to refill the Homeworlds. It has a basis in the Wolves, a new Clan with the name of a Absorbed one. Surely Nicky Kerensky never forsaw the devastation of the WoR and the how much the number of the Clans have shrunk, Five overall and one of which doesn't occupy any of the original worlds settled.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Less a fiction to keep a faction from being Annihilated (since the Horses are happily entrenched in the IS) and more "hey I can spin these guys off and add another two votes to my power bloc on the council" idea. 

[Stormlion1]

They were still the last of the Hells Horses in the Homeworlds and the call was to reave any clan that had ties to it, so by defination that last galaxy was to be reaved, because it had never been to the Inner Sphere it was easy to rename that Galaxy and turn it into a new Clan at the same time, a fiction, a workable fiction and it kept them alive as well as making them beholden to the Vipers.

[Klat]

Less a fiction to keep a faction from being Annihilated (since the Horses are happily entrenched in the IS) and more "hey I can spin these guys off and add another two votes to my power bloc on the council" idea.

This. N'Buta is smart, he knows the SLs are obliged to vote with the Adders for some time in order to ensure their survival. While at some point CSL will be strong enough to stand on its own the Adders will have already cemented themselves as the dominant political entity (and possably marshal entity) in the homeworlds. On the surface it looks like a very short sighted power play but I could see this strategy having very long term positive effects for the Adders.

They were still the last of the Hells Horses in the Homeworlds and the call was to reave any clan that had ties to it, so by defination that last galaxy was to be reaved, because it had never been to the Inner Sphere it was easy to rename that Galaxy and turn it into a new Clan at the same time, a fiction, a workable fiction and it kept them alive as well as making them beholden to the Vipers.

I think I'm having trouble understanding your use of the term "fiction." Are you taking issue with the existence of CSL in lieu of CHH? I took the term "fiction" to imply that CSL is not a real clan. I apologise if I'm being dense but would you mind elaborating on your point?

[Rainbow 6]

The creation of the Stone Lions was a fiction to keep a faction from being annihilated for having a Inner Sphere taint, which is a good thing for the number of factions left in the Homeworlds is exceedingly small now. I'm hoping that the Adders and the other Clans will over the years break sections of themselves off and "recreate" lost Clans to refill the Homeworlds. It has a basis in the Wolves, a new Clan with the name of a Absorbed one. Surely Nicky Kerensky never forsaw the devastation of the WoR and the how much the number of the Clans have shrunk, Five overall and one of which doesn't occupy any of the original worlds settled.

Only 4, don't forget the Scorpions are abjured so not a clan anymore.