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Author Topic: CSO paint-along with Gunji  (Read 176686 times)

Bedwyr

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #150 on: 21 October 2013, 14:58:42 »
I'm sorry I've missed most of this fine thread, but I'll read along for the rest of it. Lots of good insights in the interactions I see regarding palette/color management.
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serrate

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #151 on: 21 October 2013, 15:22:41 »
That reminds me, Gunji, would you consider editing your first post to include links to important portions of the walk-through?  Something like this:

1) Additional info on dusting/priming: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33513.msg782467.html#msg782467

2) Color palette: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33513.msg782486.html#msg782486

3) Thinning paints, base-coat, initial wash: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33513.msg782708.html#msg782708

4) Shading red: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33513.msg786661.html#msg786661

5) Highlighting red, cockpit, gray areas: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33513.msg789952.html#msg789952
et cetera

Just an idea to help people find important info quicker in this growing thread.

GunjiNoKanrei

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #152 on: 21 October 2013, 16:06:07 »
All right, now it is me who has some catching up to do ...

Is this Vallejo Periscopes  comparable with a GW Regal Blue.
Regal Blue is more saturated, more intense than Periscopes. So if you are ok with a more vibrant blue in the shadows, use it neat. Otherwise add a dab of grey or brown to muddy the color and kill the intensity.

@Todd: Sad to see you drop out, but, hey, it is you missing the most fun parts ;) Seriously though, the UrbanMech turned out very nice. The base could use a little more color though and arguably some weathering is missing ;)
Hope you still read along and chime in from time to time.

@The Wayfarer: Very nice. You are definitely on the right track. I think you could be a bit more daring with the lights and shadows - darker shading (especially on the lower torso, upper legs region) and more and brighter highlights (especially around the upper torso/head region and the arms). The red/maroon seems to have more contrast than the green.
A lot of it could be the picture so I am looking forward to new ones :)

@serrate: Are the pictures a little overexposed? At least on my screen they look very bright. But regardless, the Enforcer is coming along *very* nicely. The global light effect can be seen clearly, as can be the different approach between green and red. Your pictures nicely show how the highlighting steps clean up any mess the shading left.
Yes, add some appropriate lights to the darkest panel, but you can also do this during later stages. If you incorporate some of the techniques from this paint-along into your regular bag-of-tricks you will see that with experience and practice your results will get smoother and neater.
You are well on your way to create a miniature that easily puts my Mjolnir to shame :) Well done so far.
Good idea with the links in the first post. Actually I initially wanted to do something like this, but completely forgot about it ...  :-[ Will get to it asap (probably Wednesday).

Ok, I think if no one objects I will put up the next steps on Wednesday.

Mastergunz

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #153 on: 21 October 2013, 16:40:03 »
Quote
@Todd: Sad to see you drop out, but, hey, it is you missing the most fun parts  Seriously though, the UrbanMech turned out very nice. The base could use a little more color though and arguably some weathering is missing
Hope you still read along and chime in from time to time.

Oh don't think i'm dropping out. Im going to continue to follow along just incorporate the next steps into the piece I am currently working on. Thanks to this thread I am feeling more comfortable with 'daring' highlights than I have been in the past and am happy to say it's taking over my old style I think. Please continue, i'll be right here.  O0

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phlop

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #154 on: 21 October 2013, 20:18:28 »
Been following this and it has been very useful. Never would have thought of using blue to shadow red. Great paint along Gunj.
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serrate

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #155 on: 22 October 2013, 00:08:53 »

@serrate: Are the pictures a little overexposed? At least on my screen they look very bright. But regardless, the Enforcer is coming along *very* nicely. The global light effect can be seen clearly, as can be the different approach between green and red. Your pictures nicely show how the highlighting steps clean up any mess the shading left.
Yes, add some appropriate lights to the darkest panel, but you can also do this during later stages. If you incorporate some of the techniques from this paint-along into your regular bag-of-tricks you will see that with experience and practice your results will get smoother and neater.
You are well on your way to create a miniature that easily puts my Mjolnir to shame :) Well done so far.
Good idea with the links in the first post. Actually I initially wanted to do something like this, but completely forgot about it ...  :-[ Will get to it asap (probably Wednesday).

Ok, I think if no one objects I will put up the next steps on Wednesday.

Glad you like it! The pictures might be a little over exposed. I'll try to take the next set during the day so I can get some natural light on it. I was able to take what I've learned so far and apply this method to another miniature today. Already had base coat done this weekend, and this evening I made it through all the red, cockpit, and green up to final highlighting stage. Really moved fast on it, and I'm looking forward to having it caught up to the Enforcer by tomorrow. What a difference it makes to not have so many tiny panels!

Do you have any advice on how to best shade/highlight curved panels? I feel like I struggle to accurately depict natural light reflection on a curved surface.

Spaceman

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #156 on: 22 October 2013, 19:08:23 »
Here is my current progress.  I am thinking of repainting the green with a darker color as it was a lighter shade than I was expecting. Even after washing the green and silver I think the green is not the right tone.
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The Wayfarer

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #157 on: 22 October 2013, 19:51:20 »
More daring.  Copied.  Will try it soon.  The decals too.







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GunjiNoKanrei

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #158 on: 23 October 2013, 09:08:47 »
What a difference it makes to not have so many tiny panels!
Amazing, isn't it ;)

Do you have any advice on how to best shade/highlight curved panels? I feel like I struggle to accurately depict natural light reflection on a curved surface.
Which miniature are you working on?
If in doubt don't dwell on the theory too much. Try out what you feel is right/looks good.

@Spaceman:
Which steps did you complete so far? And which green did you use? It looks to be a much richer green than the usual olive green. But before you repaint everything you could try to tweak the color somewhat if you are unhappy about it. Mix the green with brown and use this for shading. Also for the highlights add an unsaturated yellow or ocher. This should give you more on an olive green.
On the other hand if you decide to roll with this richer green you can just go ahead and follow the steps. Shading with black and blue works here as well.
The green looks a bit blotchy in places (the legs for example). Is this a result of the wash? You stated you washed the green. If this is the case then you probably have too much paint on your brush and I recommend to unload the brush on a paper towel or similar before hitting the miniature. If you still get pooling of the paint, try to push the paint more into the shadows. Don't stop your brushstroke in the middle of a panel.
Also, if you already applied a wash to the metallics, do it again. It might the flash, but I'd say the metallic panels need more definition. Make those panel lines really come out.
Looking forward to your next steps :)

@The Wayfarer:
Looking at the new pictures I'd say you are good with the highlights (for now), but you need stronger shadows. I took the liberty to take one of your pictures and tried to crudely outline where I would add (stronger) shadows. I have exaggerated the shadows and the blue isn't quite the same as Persicopes, but I hope you get the idea.

Also try to bring out the panel lines more consistently. I am sure some is washed out because of the flash, but some panel lines are noticeably darker than the other or more evenly dark than others. You can use your darkest shading color for panel lines all over the miniature.
Keep it up, the BattleMaster is coming along nicely :)

GunjiNoKanrei

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #159 on: 23 October 2013, 10:44:27 »
Time for the next steps - the first stage of weathering and chipping :)

If you haven't read my article about weathering on CSO, please do it now. The next step on the Mjolnir combines several steps from the in-depth weathering tutorial.

The weathering steps are optional. If you prefer a 'clean' miniature don't do them. It is also up to you, how heavily you want to weather the miniature. From my own experience I suggest to follow a 'less-is-more' approach, especially with the chipping and scratches.

And a special note for Serrate and the panel monster Enforcer III ;)  The Enforcer already is a busy miniature. With lots of chipping effects it can easily get too busy. I'd probably only use the brush to paint chips in a controlled way or be very careful with a sponge. Control really is the key here.
As for the others, 'sponge' away ;)

Step 15:
Finally my favorite part - weathering and details.
The first thing I did here was to paint the laser lenses. You often see a jeweling effect painted on those lasers, but this is not really my effect of choice. The jeweling effect aims to simulate light hitting a jewel or a lens. But with laser lenses (in my opinion) sitting inside the barrel (there are exceptions, e.g. the Cephalus D I recently painted which had a nicely sculpted lens sitting outside the barrel), light is not likely to hit them. Instead I imagine them to be lit from within. Such an effect is very easy to do - just paint the inside of the barrel in a color of your choice (here I took a bright red), then highlight in a few steps up to a white dot placed in the center. Quick and easy.
With the lenses out of the way it is time for the chipping. I will go through these steps rather quickly with few explanations, but a lot of detail information can be found in the CSO article mentioned above. Here is what I did:
- use a piece of blister sponge to dab a very dark brown, almost black paint on the mini to create random paint chips
- refine those random chips with a brush - connect some, create new chips, ... the brush gives a lot of control to enhance (or tone down) some of the randomness from the sponge application. Notice how I concentrated the chips on the lower legs (where natural wear and tear would occur) and a few selected areas on the arms and torso (where I imagined the Mech being hit by weapons fire). I also used the chance to cover up some of the rougher blends and areas I had problems with (I mentioned the iffy left shoulder earlier)
- add some depth to the larger chips with a rusty brown
- highlight selected chips with a light color close to the final highlight color (Vallejo Model Color Ivory + a dab of Reflective Green)
- use the highlight color to paint on some superficial scratches (yes, I painted some of those over the decal on the left leg)
The CSO article explains each of those steps (and more - but stop, don't to anything further than the chips and scratches yet) in detail and also has some close-up pictures of the Cicada I have used there (click on the pictures to get them full size). But if there is interest I can add some close-up pictures of the Mjolnir at this stage to help with the weathering.




Does look ok-ish, it can still be much better though. This was just the first stage of chips and scratches. During subsequent steps we will tone them down, highlight some again and add much more depth to the weathering overall, creating a feel of a surface covered in layers of weathering with both old and new paint chips, dents and scratches. When shading and highlighting the red and green I mentioned that we will come back for the final shadows and highlights later. With the chips painted on, we are almost ready to do this.

A less involved way would have been to highlight the chips according to their position, using a less bright highlight for chips in the shadows. This is less work, but the results also aren't as good in my opinion.

I want to leave you with an update of the milestone collage, now with the first stage of the chipping. The next steps will be to add some markings and then revisit the shadows and lights.

If you have any questions - either about what I have written here or about the weathering tutorial - fire away. Otherwise have fun with the chipping and hang in there ... the last step will be number 21, so we are getting closer :)

skumm

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #160 on: 25 October 2013, 13:15:12 »
I've held off continuing my project, as I ordered the paints as you are using. they arrived so I will be back on this maybe tonight. I'm at the red shading stage still. I need to get better lights in my light box for the photo-fu.
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serrate

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #161 on: 28 October 2013, 21:51:29 »
Gunji, sorry about the long delay. I've been working up the nerve to get started on this. Also, just had my parents from across the country arrive to visit today. Since we gave them our room for the next few days, and that's where my desk is, it's unlikely I'll be able to catch up until Friday. Just wanted to say something since this thread's been pretty quiet since Step 15 was posted.  :)

GunjiNoKanrei

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #162 on: 29 October 2013, 10:46:54 »
Thanks for the note. I was beginning to think I had scared everyone away ... ;)

I can understand that covering the painstakingly build up shading and highlighting with little black/brown dots can be a daunting task and maybe that's what keeping some of of you away from the brushes. I said the weathering steps are optional, so tomorrow I will post the remaining weathering steps and get to a stage where everyone can pick up the brushes again. This will also take us  within viewing distance of the finishing line. I can imagine after such a long paint-along finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel might be a motivator for some.

If real life (or waiting for paint) is keeping you from continuing, no worries. I will still be here, even after I have posted the last step. Just continue at your own pace and post your progress here.
If you have doubts or are unsure how to proceed, just post here and I will try my best to help.

Unless there are objections I will post the last steps of the dents and scratches - including finishing the lights and shadows for everyone - tomorrow.

Minnow

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #163 on: 29 October 2013, 12:50:05 »
I have been watching this tread very closely. I have a miniature primed, just need to sit down and get to it. Thank you for sharing your process and techniques. I have applied it to a unit I am currently playing with and I have liked the results so far.
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agen2

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #164 on: 30 October 2013, 11:23:36 »
A very useful tutorial just real life it keeps me far from brushes and  certainly as soon as I get the chance I will return to comb through.

GunjiNoKanrei

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #165 on: 30 October 2013, 12:23:14 »
Time to continue on those chips and scratches. Well, almost ;)

The next step is actually to add some markings to the miniature: numbers and a few white stripes. The white stripes are not mentioned in the scheme description, but they will be few and small. I see them as company markings or just as artistic liberty (which to a certain degree is perfectly fine even within the realms of canon). After the markings it is time to finish the shades and highlights, followed by the warning stripes and weathering details.

This post contains 4 steps: markings, highlights and shadows, warning stripes, final weathering (rust and dirt)

4 steps might sound like a lot and very daunting, but it is not. All of those steps only add small effects to the miniature, giving it life and depth. Another reason why I post all of those steps is that we are at a stage where my own painting is extremely chaotic and in something like a finishing frenzy. In other words I only managed to order them for this paint-along. Usually I just jump all over the miniature adding effects as I see fit and as inspiration strikes me. So close to the finish I also spent a lot of time just looking at the miniature ( @p? I know, I know, ...). If you look at the pictures of the next steps you might see very small changes in other areas as well. Things like redrawing a panel line or a panel line there, working on a shadow, touching up a highlight, ... things like this just happen (while looking at the miniature or as spur-of-the-moment decisions). Just trust your feelings and if you think the panel line has to be darker, but Gunji hasn't written anything about it, forget what I have written and just do it ;)

If you skipped the weathering part, steps 17 (highlights and shadows) and 18 (warning stripes) are your jumping in points.

Step 16:
Let me start by apologizing for the lousy pictures. They were just quickly done with my mobile. The step had to be done pretty fast ...
Adding stripes and numbers ... both are freehanded and - using two different methods - made to look as if they are partially rubbed off. For a heavily weathered miniature this is more realistic. Otherwise those element could easily feel like an afterthought and not really a part of the miniature.
Method 1 (used on the numbers): Paint the numbers with an off-white (Vallejo Panzer Aces Stencil in my case), correct - if necessary - with the basecolor green (or red), highlight the numbers with white. To weather the number use a small piece of a sponge (blister packaging foam is perfect, never throw this away, one of the most versatile tools ever), dip into the basecolor green (or red), dab on a paper towel to take most of the paint off and then lightly dab the numbers with it. Very much like the first step of the chipping, maybe with an even lighter touch though.
Method 2 (used on the stripes): Again use a sponge, but this time not to dab on paint, but to dab on liquid mask. Do this before painting the stripes. After the liquid mask is dry (only takes a couple of minutes) paint the stripe with an off-white and highlight with white. When the paint is dry gently rub off the liquid mask, revealing the paint underneath.
Recommendation: Don't buy a bottle of liquid mask only for this paint-along.
I realize not everyone has liquid mask. That's why I used both methods. The stripes can easily be done the same way the numbers were done. If you don't have liquid mask, only buy it if you are certain you will use the technique in the future. Otherwise just use method 1.
The pictures show method 2 in detail, the numbers had already been finished at this point (using method 1): sponged on liquid mask in three spots, painting the stripes with off-white and highlighted with white, the result after the fluid has been rubbed off.
The best method to rub off the masking fluid in my opinion is using a toothpick or cotton bud where the tip is covered in a thick, dry layer of masking fluid. Alternatively a (soft!) eraser also should do the trick. Just be gentle, otherwise you might accidentally rub off the underlying paint as well.




Step 17:
Time to finish the shading and highlighting as well as the scratches and dents. The chipping we did in step 15 looks very artificial and painted on at this stage. To change this and make everything look more integrated we paint the final shades and highlights over the chips and scratches. Thanks to the translucency of the paint we will not fully cover the work we have done so far, but fade the chips, making them more subtle. For the shades I once again used Vallejo Panzer Aces Periscopes, either neat or mixed with black, in some spots even pure black, applied mainly using the feathering technique. For the highlights I just brought back some of the midtones using a few thin glazes of the basecolor, pulling the pigments to the lightspots and then concentrated on selected edge highlights. For those edge highlights I go all the way up to Vallejo Model Color Ivory, a color very close to white. Those final highlights are only carefully applied on the sharpest edges and brightest hotspots. Just gently tap the corner you want to highlight with the side of your brush. The paint is thin, but not as thin as for previous applications, I'd say 1:1 paint:water at most.
After finishing the shades and highlights I revisited some of those chips and scratches, touching up the black and the highlight. I didn't touch up all the scratches as this would nullify the effect we are going for. What we have now are chips and scratches with a lot of depth - some look like very recent additions, while others look like they have been on the Mech for quite some time. Well worth the effort in my opinion.





Step 18:
This is a very quick and easy step. Remember the black areas we left in step 3? Time to do something about them and paint some warning stripes there. Paint those areas black again if necessary and add the yellow stripes. A yellow with good coverage certainly helps (GW Foundation Ianyden Darksun or Tausept Ochre are my colors of choice here), but is not a must. Correct with black and make sure the stripes are (roughly) the same width and (roughly) parallel. Then highlight the stripes in a few steps by adding more and more of a light color to the basecolors (white, off-white, ivory, ... whatever happens to be on your palette or happens to be the first color you grab).





Step 19:
During this step I will work with rusty browns. First to shade the warning stripes (I really like how reddish brown shades yellow) and then to add some rust or dirt streaks to selected parts of the miniature. Maybe you will now point out that Mechs do not rust, but there are some examples in stories where Mechs actually do that. Or if you don't want to call it rust, just call it dirt and use the same colors on your base (more on that later). And if that's not your thing either, just skip the rust/dirt streaks ;)
To shade the warning stripes I simply used a dark-ish red/brown (GW Dark Flesh in my case, but any red/brown will do), pushing the pigments into the shadows, slowly building up the colors. This is a relatively controlled process.
For the rust/dirt streaks allow me to quote my weathering article from CSO:
Something else I did at this stage was to add a few dirt or rust streaks running down from some of the larger (or rather deeper) chips. Those streaks are a two-step process:
1. take a rusty red or orange brown and thin it down a lot. Now apply the paint in a very controlled way creating a rather broad streak running downwards.
2. Take a dark red or dark brown color and create a much finer streak inside the first. This becomes easier with a bit of practice.

You could even add a third step and paint an even finer (and smaller) streak with black.





Phew, that almost concludes the painting of the miniature. The remaining steps will be all about the base and one final weathering detail.

You can find the updated milestones collage here.

Looking forward to your progress and questions should you have any :).

GunjiNoKanrei

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #166 on: 05 November 2013, 10:30:18 »
Finally got around to adding the proposed index to the first post.

To put the ball firmly into your court I will post the final steps tomorrow or on Thursday.


Bedwyr

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #167 on: 05 November 2013, 12:20:25 »
Sehr hübsch! I look forward to messing with this as soon as I begin working on painting miniatures again.  ;D
Alas poor Photobucket. I knew him Horatio, a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy.

GunjiNoKanrei

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #168 on: 07 November 2013, 10:39:03 »
Time for the finishing steps and final touch-ups.

The biggest thing left to do is painting the base. To finish off the base I will use pigments and I will also use the same pigments as the last weathering step on the miniature. Using the same pigments (or washes/colors) on the base as well as the miniature ties everything together and creates an harmonic overall impression.

I also want to emphasize this again:
Quote
... we are at a stage where my own painting is extremely chaotic and in something like a finishing frenzy. In other words I only managed to order them for this paint-along. Usually I just jump all over the miniature adding effects as I see fit and as inspiration strikes me. So close to the finish I also spent a lot of time just looking at the miniature ( @p? I know, I know, ...). If you look at the pictures of the next steps you might see very small changes in other areas as well. Things like redrawing a panel line or a panel line there, working on a shadow, touching up a highlight, ... things like this just happen (while looking at the miniature or as spur-of-the-moment decisions). Just trust your feelings and if you think the panel line has to be darker, but Gunji hasn't written anything about it, forget what I have written and just do it ;)
There really is no method to this madness. Just follow your intuition and everything will fall into place for you.

Step 20:
Painting the base is a messy affair ... Using greens, browns and blues I wetblend the colors on the base to create an interesting ground effect. Well, wetblending is really stretching it ... the first step is just to slop on the diluted paint and let the paints mix on the base.
As you can see, there is a small pool on the base. This is where I concentrated the blue paints, because I wanted to add a water effect there.

Next I painted the rocks and stones in a neutral grey.

After the paint had mostly dried I intensified the blue in the pool by putting down dots of paint and feathering the edges. I also started to gently drybrush the base with beige and off-white colors.

With the base mostly painted it was time to add the water effect. Since this is just a small pool, more of a puddle really, a complicated and sophisticated two-component water effect is certainly overkill. There are easier ways, for example:
- gloss varnish: good to create a wet effect, but since we have a shallow pool, we also have to build up some volume
- wood glue: dries transparent, but is dull. With some gloss or ink on top a good solution
- water effects like Vallejo Still Water: easy to use, but shrinks a lot. Many layers are needed
I started with Vallejo Still Water (with a bit of blue ink added). The image shows the base after pouring in the still water for the first time.

The next image shows the pool after maybe 3 or 4 applications of still water. Between applications I often paint the surface of the dried layer with transparent paints such as inks to tint the 'water' and to create a bigger variety in shades and sheen. Greens, blues and browns come in handy here.
Still not enough volume though and you can clearly see how the still water literally wraps around the small rocks after shrinking.
At this point I also applied some tufts of grass to the base. Tufts are very easy to use, just fix them in place with a drop of superglue or wood glue. They also come in a variety of colors and lengths. That being said, I usually don't like how static grass or tufts look out-of-the-box. I always try to integrate them into the base and add some variety with just a few simple steps.

The first step, shown in the next picture, is to give the tufts a wash with a color (or a similar color) used on the base. just thin down a drop of paint a lot and put a brushload on the tuft. Just make sure whatever glue you used is dry before applying the wash. If anything spills on the base, just soak it up with a damp brush or gently feather it. After the wash is dry ...

... just drybrush the tufts with one or two white/off-white/light-(green/blue/red) colors. Very easy to do and in my opinion well worth the effort. The picture doesn't show this very well, but most tufts now have strands in different colors. Similar, but still different enough to add interest.
You might also notice the milky hue of the pool. I got tired of slowly building up the effect using layer after layer of still water and just put down a few drops of wood glue. Wood glue dries transparent, so no worries. After the glue was dry I added one final layer of still water on top to get the wet look back.


Step 21:
Almost there, only one (optional) step left: Pigments. To further enhace the base I stippled on different green, brown and blue pigments to get a dusty finish and to add an even greater variety of colors. I also stippled some pigments on the lower legs of the Mjolnir. Less is more in this case, but the nice thing about pigments is that you can always erase what you have done with a damp brush.
To learn more about pigments, their various applications and how to fix them (for gaming minis) I recommend Psycho's article on CSO.
And I almost forgot the very last (mandatory) step: paint the border of the base solid black. In my opinion one of the worst things you can do is leave the border of the base a sloppy mess. The miniature is like a picture and needs a nice frame.





To come full circle I'd like to finish with a few thoughts about varnishing miniatures. If you are going to game with your miniatures and as a result they get handled a lot, varnish is essential to prevent paint from rubbing off and protect your minis. However if your miniatures are just sitting in your display cabinet (like mine usually do), don't varnish them. It is an unnecessary step which can in the worst case destroy your work and in the best case still alters the perception of what you have painted. I never varnish pure display miniatures or competition entries.

Here is the link to the final milestones collage, giving you all major steps in one huge image.

Since the Mjolnir hasn't been published on CSO yet (hopefully sometime next week) this is one of the rare occasions a mini premiers elsewhere ... here is a preview of the final pictures of the Mjolnir for CSO and my personal webpage:


(sorry for the blueish tint, but I am still trying to figure out how to get good pictures with a black background :-\ )

All right, I hope some of you are still hanging in there. I'd really like to see your next batch of pictures :) Even though the Mjolnir is finished now, this thread isn't and I am not going anywhere ... in fact I have two tasks/requests for you:
1. Finish your minis and continue posting pictures :)
2. I would be grateful for any kind of feedback on the paint-along format and this paint-along in particular. What is good? What can be improved? Any additional questions/requests/comments?

Doing this has been, and still is, a lot of fun! Thanks for your time!

serrate

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #169 on: 07 November 2013, 22:21:28 »
Steps 14 & 15 done. Will post some pics tomorrow. On step 14 I didn't have any Republic decals, but I did add one warning decal under the jump jet on the back.

Step 15 I kept the chips mostly limited to the feet, with some on the lower right leg and a few on the large laser barrel on the left arm. I threw in a few scratches as well, just to try it out, but I'm not sure I really pulled it off. I added a couple intersecting scratches on the autocannon barrel, trying to make it look like impact damage, but again I'm not sure how successful it was. I'll take a set of pics now, and then move on to 16.

Edit: Ok, for step 16 I painted on a number, then slightly weathered it. Adding stripes on this mech just didn't seem like it would really add much, and had the potential to obscure some highlights that I was already happy with, so I skipped that. A couple stripes will work on the other mech I'm doing though, so I'll add it there.

Could you clarify something on step 17? Are you adding more shading and highlights to the entire mech at this point, or just to panels where you've added damage? It sounds like you're doing the entire mech. How many more layers of each are you doing? Also, if you're layering on more pure base-color, and pulling that towards the lighter edges, isn't this knocking down some of the lighter highlights you've already built up? Or is that just my brain still rebelling against just how transparent these layers should be?
« Last Edit: 07 November 2013, 23:44:04 by serrate »

GunjiNoKanrei

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #170 on: 08 November 2013, 14:48:26 »
Sure, I'll try to clarify Step 17. Emphasize is on try ;)
I do indeed go over the whole miniature with the shadows and highlights, or at least where I think it is appropriate. However I can't tell you how many layers I did, because I never count them ... I just continue until satisfied. I'd say I do more shading than highlighting though, but when feathering the shadow color I often feather it over the whole panel (in the video for example, you can see that I put down some shading color below the knee, switch to a damp brush and feather the color over the whole leg - the video doesn't show this very well, but the effect is very very subtle on the lighter parts). After that the basecolor (again where I feel it is necessary) acts mainly as a filter, tinting the area towards a warmer green again, softening out transition and knocking back some of the chalkiness which may occur when highlighting with white-ish colors. Yes, this probably knocks down some of the highlights I did previously, but again the effect is very very subtle. My paint is really thin when working with the basecolor again (I wouldn't say colored water, but close). And I still do the edge highlights anyway.

This may seem like an unnecessary back and forth, but I have two aims here: 1. fade the chips and scratches 2. get the contrast to a point I am happy with while smoothing out the blending as much as possible.

If you are happy with your result for the most part, or don't really want to fade the chips and scratches too much dial back on this step. Less is more. Just finalize the deepest shadows, add a few well placed hotspots and call it a day. I guess this is probably one of the best examples why I say my painting is very intuitive. But it is also an important step for the 'many layers' effect I want to create with the weathering.

I hope this helps?  :-\

serrate

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #171 on: 08 November 2013, 16:21:34 »
That does help. I'll work on it this evening.

Ok, just one set of pics below. I didn't bother with a pic of the decal on the back, I'll catch it next time. For step 15, you can see the various chips on the feet, and some on the lower right leg & left arm laser barrel. I also have 2 impact marks on the RA gun barrel, which I think looked better before I re-tinted silver over them. They really stood out more at first, and I wasn't sure if it was too much, but I think they looked better before I 'fixed' them.

Scratches can be seen in the middle of the torso, left leg near the knee, another on top of the LA barrel, and the RA shoulder.

The number '14' was painted on the RL thigh (ceramcoat antique white, highlighted with white), and then weathered with base color.

Also still need to finish the laser barrel glow.





Things I'd like to add or fix:

1) The scratches/impacts on the RA. I think these should be relined so they stand out more. I basically used an asterisk pattern. Any suggestions?

2) Chips: Did I cover too much of the black (Vallejo German Camo Black Brown) with the rust (Ceramcoat Brown Iron Oxide). Should I add another rust highlight with more red? It seems pretty flat, but perhaps step 17 is what resolves that.

3) Chips #2: I'd like to add a bright silver as a highlight to a few spots, especially where those chips overlap a corner. This might also give them the effect of more recent damage. Thoughts?

4) Rear jump jet exhaust: According to the record sheet, the mech has 2 JJ's in each leg, and 1 on the torso. While I'm unsure of what exactly is modeled as JJ's on the legs, the rear torso JJ is very obvious and I think the paint underneath it should show weathering, perhaps scorching or at least some soot. I could do this with a very light targeted black drybrush, but I wanted to see if you had a better suggestion.

5) RA gun barrel. Being an autocannon, I can imagine this barrel should show signs of extreme heat exposure. I've got a plan to do this with a succession of targeted washes, but I thought I'd see what method you would use.

6) Actuators/joints: These just seem too bright. I think I need to do something to give them a more oily metal look. Maybe a brown wash, or a light layer of Tamiya Smoke.

Sorry for all the questions, but I figured I might as well ask while I'm doing the weathering since it's all relevant.

GunjiNoKanrei

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #172 on: 08 November 2013, 20:44:51 »
Thanks for sharing the pictures, good to see your progress :) Looks very nice so far.

Sorry for all the questions, but I figured I might as well ask while I'm doing the weathering since it's all relevant.
No need to apologize. Ask as many questions as you like ;)
Due to that strange thing called real life time I don't have much time this weekend (family obligations) and I don't want to answer your questions in passing. I will try to get to them with the necessary attention tomorrow evening or on Sunday.

SteelWarrior

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #173 on: 10 November 2013, 01:19:10 »
Enforcer is coming along nicely
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Savage Coyote

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #174 on: 10 November 2013, 09:14:50 »
Yup, the enforcer is top notch! :)

GunjiNoKanrei

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #175 on: 12 November 2013, 07:48:41 »
Getting back into the swing of things after an eventful weekend. Sorry for the delay...

I also have 2 impact marks on the RA gun barrel, which I think looked better before I re-tinted silver over them. They really stood out more at first, and I wasn't sure if it was too much, but I think they looked better before I 'fixed' them.
I must admit I hadn't anticipated someone trying the chipping on metallics :-[ It works a little different there, at least that's my observation. Painting over the chips with a metallic paint, no matter how thin, is probably not going to work as the metallic pigments might ruin any illusion of depth we are trying to create. Also the highlights under the chips should be done with a very bright metallic paint as should be scratches. Overall my opinion is that chips and scratches on metallic surface are more successful in darkly shaded areas, because I think they profit from the flat/shiny contrast there.

1) The scratches/impacts on the RA. I think these should be relined so they stand out more. I basically used an asterisk pattern. Any suggestions?
Yes, I agree. Re-highlight with a bright silver. An asterisk pattern is a good choice in my opinion. Your points may be a bit long though. I would try an asterisk with uneven points, some small, some long. That being said, I never had much success with painted impact craters, I never liked the look. I am not sure if I just haven't found the right method or if the shape is too complicated for the technique or if I just don't like the look of impact craters ;) What works quite well with this technique is a 'line' of successive small weapon impacts e.g. from a machine gun.

2) Chips: Did I cover too much of the black (Vallejo German Camo Black Brown) with the rust (Ceramcoat Brown Iron Oxide). Should I add another rust highlight with more red? It seems pretty flat, but perhaps step 17 is what resolves that.
Your pictures are rather small to judge this detail, but from what I can see in the third pictures I'd say yes, you did cover too much of the first chipping color. At least for the way you painted/shaped the chips. I think your chips are too big. In my opinion smaller chips or at least also smaller chips look more 'realistic' and closer to scale (even though the whole technique with the highlights is stretching the scale issue a bit ...) than only a few big ones. What I mean is that you need some very small chips surrounding the big ones. Or you can even try to break up the bigger chips with the basecolor or by painting a few 'fake' highlights inside them.
Here is a picture showing close-ups where you can see a mix of big and small chips. The detail of the Cephalus imho shows that you don't need many chips, but mixing size and shape adds a lot to the effect.


3) Chips #2: I'd like to add a bright silver as a highlight to a few spots, especially where those chips overlap a corner. This might also give them the effect of more recent damage. Thoughts?
Try it out, see what happens. My limited experiments with chipping and using metallic paints were not to my liking, but this doesn't mean it can't look good. Maybe this is a step to developing your own method and adds a whole new dimension to the effect :)

4) Rear jump jet exhaust: According to the record sheet, the mech has 2 JJ's in each leg, and 1 on the torso. While I'm unsure of what exactly is modeled as JJ's on the legs, the rear torso JJ is very obvious and I think the paint underneath it should show weathering, perhaps scorching or at least some soot. I could do this with a very light targeted black drybrush, but I wanted to see if you had a better suggestion.
Yes, a targeted, careful drybrush should do the trick. My only concern would be that the result looks too flat. Maybe a *very* light drybrush with a metallic paint or light grey after the black would look good.
Alternatively you could try more of a stippling technique. Something completely different would be pigments. Black or dark metallic pigments stippled or rubbed on.

5) RA gun barrel. Being an autocannon, I can imagine this barrel should show signs of extreme heat exposure. I've got a plan to do this with a succession of targeted washes, but I thought I'd see what method you would use.
You could probably try a similar technique as for the jump jet exhaust. I'd probably take the targeted washes route though which you could combine it with my suggestions regarding your question 6.

6) Actuators/joints: These just seem too bright. I think I need to do something to give them a more oily metal look. Maybe a brown wash, or a light layer of Tamiya Smoke.
Hmm, I'd say you either didn't shade enough or applied too strong highlights. Tamiya Smoke is a grey color, isn't it? It might work, but I'd be worried about the shine those Tamyia clear colors have.
I would shade the metallics again. Build up flat shadows with black and brown colors, building up the intensity with successive washes. This way you can nicely control how wide and bright your highlights are. Treat bright metallics just as you would bright highlight color. I'd use a bright silver only for selected hotspots.
Here is a quick sketch what I would try to do with washes - not pretty, but it might give you an idea:


Sorry for all the questions, but I figured I might as well ask while I'm doing the weathering since it's all relevant.
Again, no need to apologize. The more questions the better ;)

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #176 on: 12 November 2013, 19:42:19 »
That Enforcer looks great man! Well done!

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #177 on: 13 November 2013, 16:09:30 »
Sorry its been so long since my last post.  Been busy.  Thanks for the shading tips Gunji.  Appreciate the detail you provided in more than a few previous posts.  Unless Gunji recommends a few things I'm feeling I'm done.  The cockpit needs a bit more work along with the PPC barrel (which I like to leave black) but otherwise I'm ready to move to a batch of Wolves I'm been trying to finish up.

I really liked the paint along and would like to see more of them.  I learned a lot about transparency.  Although I had begun to use this technique a tad before the paint-along, it really helped me get a better handle on it, especially with using contrasting colors. 

My main suggestion to improve the process is to give a months notice of the mini to be painted and a list of the paints to be used.  I would have gladly picked up Pericsopes and a few of the other colors used in advance to make sure I was getting more similar results.

Oh.  I would also like to see what you CSO guys use for the photography.  What lighting, what camera, what camera settings, etc.  This has been the most frustrating aspect to me.  I have a feeling I'm plagued with poor lighting, a poor camera and a total lack of any ability to take a decent picture of a miniature.  That is, see below.

Thanks again!




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serrate

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #178 on: 13 November 2013, 16:32:33 »
@The Wayfarer: Really nice work!  O0

@Gunji: Thanks! I'll be moving forward on this one tomorrow night. In the meantime, I used these techniques on a completely different mech, and color-scheme, and it's really starting to come together.

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Re: CSO paint-along with Gunji
« Reply #179 on: 13 November 2013, 16:40:01 »
All things considered i think your battlemaster came out nicely, its not a perfect follow along with the steps in here but the fact you embrassed some new techniques and stepped out of your comfort zone and took it to a higher level was awesome to watch.  I think if you touched up the cockpit a bit to make it cleaner and pop out more youd have an awesome looking mini.  Hats off to Gunji and everyone who took part, hopefully i can jump in on savages paint along and go rogue and do the wolves using his grey tips :p
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