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Author Topic: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis  (Read 1178 times)

TheOldGuy

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Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« on: 14 January 2022, 20:54:16 »
Hey all! Getting back into BT after a few years away - last minis I bought were the LAM kickstarter pack.

I'm now decently confused by the miniature options out there. Obviously IWM is still around. But now I see plastic packs out there. Who is making those? Is there one "group" or have there been Kickstarters and other manufacturers? How is the quality between the two?

I also remember the size of the mechs was an issue with some 20 tonners as big as some 100 tonners and there was a period where they attempted to correct that. Still an issue? How do the plastic ones compare to the metal?

Thanks all!

Mendrugo

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #1 on: 14 January 2022, 21:34:44 »
Catalyst makes the plastic force packs.  These are new sculpts, and are appropriately scaled to each other.  IWM still has the license to do metal minis.

The quality of the new plastics is through the roof.  Orders of magnitude better than the 20th anniversary plastic pieces, the PlasTech blobs, and the goofy CityTech 2 plastics.  Twice as good as the 3rd edition plastics.  Loads of detail, nicely posed, mounted on full-sized bases.
« Last Edit: 14 January 2022, 21:37:21 by Mendrugo »
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Sartris

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #2 on: 14 January 2022, 23:38:28 »
The IWM scale problems mostly were mostly a sculpting issue in the first decade of the 2000s - TRO 3067, Project Phoenix, and 3075, especially have some mutants - the Stiletto is a good example of a massively oversized light. Conditions have improved.

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MarauderD

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #3 on: 15 January 2022, 14:28:15 »
The IWM scale problems mostly were mostly a sculpting issue in the first decade of the 2000s - TRO 3067, Project Phoenix, and 3075, especially have some mutants - the Stiletto is a good example of a massively oversized light. Conditions have improved.

I once had a metal Templar, liked the look of it, but the scale made it look like it was 150 tons.

Luciora

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #4 on: 15 January 2022, 16:28:33 »
Let's not forget the Targe.  Light mech that felt like a direct fire Stalker with oddly designed weapons.

Cache

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #5 on: 15 January 2022, 18:07:51 »
Conditions have improved.
There's something to be said for having the ability to 3D print test models to evaluate the size compared to others (not to mention easy volumetric measurements).

Sartris

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #6 on: 15 January 2022, 22:13:32 »
Let's not forget the Targe.  Light mech that felt like a direct fire Stalker with oddly designed weapons.

I feel like they just took the DA clix mini and made it into a pewter sculpt

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Part of the fanbase: I have very fringe interests
Same part of the fanbase: Why are my interests not specifically catered to and legitimized by canon?

SteelRaven

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #7 on: 15 January 2022, 22:42:20 »
IWM mini's varied from sculptor to sculptor until more recent as they are taking advantage of 3D modeling allot more with many of the artist take allot of feed back from the community. I believe the CGL art director and artist have also worked more directly with IWM over the years, I know Anthony Scroggin's thought the MAD-4X mini wasn't as close to the art work as it could have been but had good things to say about latter minis.     
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carlisimo

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #8 on: 16 January 2022, 19:50:25 »
Even IWM minis from 4-5 years ago can be iffy in scale; the 2017 Lu Wei Bing (a modernized Victor) and the 2018 primitive Orion look underscaled.

Catalyst's design team got scaling under control around that time.  I suppose designs handed to IronWind after a certain point are consistent in scale, but there was a backlog of earlier designs that still came out the old way (like the two above).  The redesigned Ostscout is labeled "2017" on IWM's website and it feels like the start of minis being properly scaled.  The primitive Emperor looks right, too.  At least some of the mechs released in the current plastic starter box (A Game of Armored Combat, 2019) and wave 1 of the Kickstarter campaign were designed around that time. 

Heavies and assaults almost all grew relative to the older minis.

Colt Ward

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #9 on: 17 January 2022, 15:46:00 »
What?  I think the prim Orion looks awesome and is on scale with stuff now being chunky.  The old Orions were just so tall.  The prim Thunderbolt is big, but eh.

But to the OP, what you might be finding-

Alpha Strike Lance Packs- these used the old IWM/RP sculpts and were good for what they were from that starting point.  If you painted both up and based them, the only way you would find a difference was lifting them.

Primitive line- a backfilling of the earliest Omnis through a set of PDF-only TROs, this was a sort of soft reset (again, like Phoenix did) of the art/minis.  You got things like the primitive Orion, Thunderbolt, Rifleman, Emperor, and others that took them to a more modern look (Orion) or got rid of good looks (Emperor) as well as offering alternatives to the designs that were Unseen (Rifleman).

Game of Armored Combat/Beginner Box/Reinforcements-  The start of the art/mini revamp that took the many of the same well received digital designer/artists of the primitives and turned them loose.  Originally these 9 designs (for 10 total minis) were only available through the boxes, but later were released as Inner Sphere Reinforcements w/o the box contents or fancy packaging.  IIRC Reinforcements have only been through the KS, webstore, or Cons . . . mostly b/c they are not FLGS shelf appropriate.  I THINK you can find them available on other webstores like Aries.

Clan Invasion Kickstarter minis-  Here comes the glut.  The Kickstarter blew out the stretch goals and IIRC was something like 45 Clan mechs (for 9 stars) and . . . 44? IS mechs . . . or was it 45 w/ the UrbanMech?  43?  Anyway, a lot of lances plus the two ComStar Level Twos, a UrbanMech, and two reposed mechs to represent the legendary Morgan Kell and Grayson Carlyle.  The base of the KS was the Clan Invasion box which featured 5 Clan Omnis and 2 Points of Elementals.

Wolf's Dragoon Assault Star-  Released exclusively through Barnes & Noble- so buy it there rather than ebay- it features new Annihilator, new Blackjack 2, reposed Rifleman, Archer and Timber Wolf.  Basically the Rifleman has a arm pointed down and the Archer & TWolf have their legs adjusted- I think they used the Pryde's foot position from a comparison.

And yet . . . we might be getting more plastics.

For Ironwind's part they have released everything from GoAC/Beginner the Locust, Commando, Wolverine, Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Catapult, and Thunderbolt with a announcement of the Awesome and Battlemaster coming IIRC.  Outside of the box IWM did have a Wasp and Valkyrie though both had to be pulled at one point, not sure if they have come back.  The Ostscout is the only one outside of that box that has come out from the KS IIRC.
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Middcore

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #10 on: 17 January 2022, 16:31:12 »
I'd just like to speak up here and say that the Primitive sculpts are by and large extremely good, and I would rather use them to represent even the "modern" variants of their respective types over any other sculpts besides the new plastics. In the case of the Unseen especially, the primitive versions beat the the spindly Phoenix reseen sculpts six ways from Sunday (whatever that expression means).

Sartris

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #11 on: 17 January 2022, 16:40:39 »
I agree the primitive sculpts are by and large fantastic.

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Part of the fanbase: I have very fringe interests
Same part of the fanbase: Why are my interests not specifically catered to and legitimized by canon?

CVB

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #12 on: 17 January 2022, 18:14:20 »
Primitive line- a backfilling of the earliest Omnis through a set of PDF-only TROs, this was a sort of soft reset (again, like Phoenix did) of the art/minis.

Would you have any information about these pdf-only TROs? Where to purchase, mostly?
Thanks!
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CVB

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #14 on: 17 January 2022, 19:41:03 »
Thank you very much! I have got those. Sorry, my fault, I had thought this was a special series about
Quote
backfilling of the earliest Omnis
.
Again, thanks!
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
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Middcore

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #15 on: 17 January 2022, 19:45:51 »
Thank you very much! I have got those. Sorry, my fault, I had thought this was a special series about .
Again, thanks!

I think Colt Ward actually misspoke there, as the primitives are all Inner Sphere designs from long before OmniMechs were invented.

CVB

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #16 on: 17 January 2022, 20:02:20 »
And I had hoped for a moment there was a trace of the legendary Mk. I Omnis  :)
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
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Colt Ward

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #17 on: 17 January 2022, 20:26:57 »
Those will never see BT publishing I would bet . . . BUT there was also Golden Century PDF.
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Cache

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #18 on: 17 January 2022, 20:38:01 »
And I had hoped for a moment there was a trace of the legendary Mk. I Omnis  :)
They're legendary because they never existed. ;) A fan made them up and/or conflated them with what Virtual World used in the pods at the time.

Middcore

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #19 on: 17 January 2022, 21:02:32 »
Those will never see BT publishing I would bet . . . BUT there was also Golden Century PDF.

It bums me out a lot of the art in Golden Century was reused. I really want to know what the Masauwu looks like.

My headcanon is that the Grizzly is also related to the War Dog but maybe I'm the only one who sees the resemblance.

Colt Ward

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #20 on: 17 January 2022, 21:57:29 »
Masauwu was built off the same base, so it is close enough . . . you could always green stuff some edges or stuff if you want to make it look more different.
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Middcore

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #21 on: 17 January 2022, 21:58:05 »
Masauwu was built off the same base, so it is close enough . . . you could always green stuff some edges or stuff if you want to make it look more different.

Mainly I just want someone to be brave enough to do a new take on the War Dog concept, such as it is.

Luciora

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #22 on: 17 January 2022, 23:28:27 »
I did kitbash a Masauwu, off the War Dog.

Coldstone

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #23 on: 24 January 2022, 06:40:00 »
I once had a metal Templar, liked the look of it, but the scale made it look like it was 150 tons.

Is there actual a plastic Templar? I have two of the metal one, and it is my fave IS Omni. But it is indeed very big. So a proper scaled one would be nice.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #24 on: 24 January 2022, 08:18:49 »
Not yet, if there is another kickstarter covering the next period I would expect it to be included b/c of the number of PCs that ended up piloting a Templar.
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MarauderD

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #25 on: 24 January 2022, 11:43:48 »
Not yet, if there is another kickstarter covering the next period I would expect it to be included b/c of the number of PCs that ended up piloting a Templar.

The trick for me is which one?  I thought the original Templar was really nice looking--the Templar III was just a little too symmetrical for me.  I'd take either one, mind you.  Just would really like the Templar.

Coldstone

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #26 on: 24 January 2022, 11:59:48 »
Hmm. Maybe a series of all IS Omnis?

Including the 3058 ones as well as the Hauptmann, Men Shen, Templar and the  Perseus?
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Colt Ward

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #27 on: 24 January 2022, 12:34:01 »
The trick for me is which one?  I thought the original Templar was really nice looking--the Templar III was just a little too symmetrical for me.  I'd take either one, mind you.  Just would really like the Templar.

Well . .

Templar I
Ardan Sortek- showed up on New Avalon w/2, gave Tancred his
Tancred Sandoval-  after his Nightstar fell on New Avalon
Grayson Addison- the POV character of the New Syrtis novel
Julian Davion- Stone's gift that let out Omni-Smoke, before that bit changed
Jasek Kelswa-Steiner- switched for some reason in the Anvil


Templar III
Julian Davion- from entry in the AFFS to when he visited Stone
Jasek Kelswa-Steiner- some point after graduating a academy, while leading the Stormhammers, and stopped some point before landing on Coventry
Cacey Duncan-  Hansen's pilot from MWDA dossier

Funny thing is, Sarna has Julian & Jasek's usage wrong- both described actions were the Templar III from MWDA.
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Aotrs Commander

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Re: Getting back into BT - confused by all the minis
« Reply #28 on: 24 January 2022, 13:06:28 »
Let's not forget the Targe.  Light mech that felt like a direct fire Stalker with oddly designed weapons.

That's probably the worst offender.

I trot this out occasionally, because it's worth repeating:



A 40-ton Battlemech should really not look perfectly happy and comparable next to models that are literally twice the scale! (144th 12mm).

I'd just like to speak up here and say that the Primitive sculpts are by and large extremely good, and I would rather use them to represent even the "modern" variants of their respective types over any other sculpts besides the new plastics. In the case of the Unseen especially, the primitive versions beat the the spindly Phoenix reseen sculpts six ways from Sunday (whatever that expression means).

I only own an Emperor because of the Primitve version, which is so much better aethetically it isn't funny...

 

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