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Author Topic: Renegade Legions to Battletech  (Read 1317 times)

namar13766

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Renegade Legions to Battletech
« on: 17 July 2021, 16:30:48 »
How would the legion system from Renegade Legion translate into Battletech? How does it compare to star league defense force military organization?

Blackhorse 6

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Re: Renegade Legions to Battletech
« Reply #1 on: 17 July 2021, 21:59:21 »
That’s a wide open range to explore.  Could you maybe narrow the field a bit on what you might be interested in discussing?

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Renegade Legions to Battletech
« Reply #2 on: 18 July 2021, 00:28:56 »

Roughly speaking...

1 RL Squad = 1 Grav Tank = 1 BattleMech
1 RL Platoon = 3 RL Squads = 1 BT Understrength Lance
1 RL Century = 4 RL Platoons (incl 1 HQ Squad) = 1 BT Company
1 RL Cohort = 6 or 10 RL Centuries = 1 BT Regiment
1 RL Legion = 10 Cohorts and Support = ~3 BT Divisions (3 Regiments ea)

"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
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"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
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CVB

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Re: Renegade Legions to Battletech
« Reply #3 on: 18 July 2021, 05:13:36 »
A lot of detailed info is listed here:

For formations in particular:
Legion, Cohort, Century, Platoon


"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
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namar13766

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Re: Renegade Legions to Battletech
« Reply #4 on: 18 July 2021, 16:53:59 »
That’s a wide open range to explore.  Could you maybe narrow the field a bit on what you might be interested in discussing?
I was wondering how the Legion system works converted to Battletech, not the TOG ones. What does a Infantry, Praetorian, Strike, and Garrison Legion look like by BT standards? Not to mention the Renegade, Naram, and KessRith versions.

Roughly speaking...

1 RL Squad = 1 Grav Tank = 1 BattleMech
1 RL Platoon = 3 RL Squads = 1 BT Understrength Lance
1 RL Century = 4 RL Platoons (incl 1 HQ Squad) = 1 BT Company
1 RL Cohort = 6 or 10 RL Centuries = 1 BT Regiment
1 RL Legion = 10 Cohorts and Support = ~3 BT Divisions (3 Regiments ea)

That all looks good, but what about the various forms of Manus?

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Renegade Legions to Battletech
« Reply #5 on: 18 July 2021, 19:07:57 »
That all looks good, but what about the various forms of Manus?

I don’t recall how big a manus is (couple centuries)?  But aside from artillery, most of the manus types in RL fulfilled support functions that either get short shrift in BT (engineering, HQ, MP) or don’t appear at all in BT (signals).  So, I don’t know how well they’d translate, even if I remembered manus numbers.

We do see artillery, regimental command, and battalion command lances and companies in BT, so those can translate okay for artillery and HQ functions in RL.  We also see security lances in BT, which sorta align with MP.  We have a few engineering vehicles in BT, but I don’t think we’ve ever seen an engineering company or such.  Dunno what signals would translate to in BT.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

CVB

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Re: Renegade Legions to Battletech
« Reply #6 on: 18 July 2021, 20:44:46 »
A TOG Legion consists of 10 combat Cohorts, a supporting Artillery Manus, a supply manus, a Military Police Cohort, a Signal Cohort, an Engineer Cohort and Headquarters Units.
The Artillery Manus of the Legion consist of 3 Cohorts of Artillery, 1 Air Defense Cohort, and a Rocket Century. Total: probably 162 artillery combat vehicles, 54 air defence combat vehicles, 117 support vehicles and 12 rocket vehicles (incl. support).

In BT terms,  a brigade of two artillery regiments of three battalions each.

The combat Cohorts are grouped for specific missions into temporary detachments of 2 to 5 Cohorts, each called a Manus. Depending on the Manus' mission, the Legion's Prefect can assign it support units from the artillery, signal, supply, MP, or engineer elements. A Legion has sufficient additional Headquarters Centuries to form 5 separate Manus. Such a Manus is akin to a brigade or task force HQ without organic combat units.

Among the line Cohorts, the 1st consists of 10 Centuries, each of 9 combat and 3 support vehicles, plus an HQ Century (9 support vehicles). Total: 90 combat and 39 support vehicles.
The 2nd - 10th Cohorts each consist of 6 Centuries, each of 9 combat and 3 support vehicles, plus an HQ Century (9 support vehicles). Total: 54 combat and 27 support vehicles.

So in BT terms, the first Cohort is equivalent to a weak Regiment, the 2nd - 10th Cohorts are closer to reinforced battalions.

Note: the proportion of combat and support vehicles may change a bit, depending if the command vehicles in the support platoons and centuries should be counted as combat or support vehicles. I went with support vehicles, YMMV.
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
- David Drake

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but I'm not willing to hang it by the neck until it's dead, dead, dead!

Hellraiser

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Re: Renegade Legions to Battletech
« Reply #7 on: 19 July 2021, 00:13:25 »
Roughly speaking...

1 RL Squad = 1 Grav Tank = 1 BattleMech
1 RL Platoon = 3 RL Squads = 1 BT Understrength Lance
1 RL Century = 4 RL Platoons (incl 1 HQ Squad) = 1 BT Company
1 RL Cohort = 6 or 10 RL Centuries = 1 BT Regiment
1 RL Legion = 10 Cohorts and Support = ~3 BT Divisions Brigades (3 Regiments ea) = 1 Division

There fixed that last part.
Otherwise, this is cool info, I always thought RL Grav Tanks looked interesting back in the 80's/90's but never played it.
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namar13766

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Re: Renegade Legions to Battletech
« Reply #8 on: 23 July 2021, 15:44:22 »
I'm working on a pair of TOEs based on the Legion system for an Army and a Marine Corps. Do they seem pretty coherent?

----

Marines

Squad

Armored
1 Combat Vehicle

Infantry
8 person squad + APC/IFV

----

Platoon
4 Squads
Armored
4 Combat Vehicle

Infantry
4 APC/IFV and 3 8-person squads

HQ Platoon
1 Supply Vehicle, 1 Maintenance Vehicle, and 1 Recovery Vehicle
4th and Final vehicle is based on preference

----

Company
4 Platoons = 1 Company
Armored Company:
2 Tank  Platoons, 1 Infantry Platoon, and 1 HQ Platoon

Infantry Company:
2 Infantry Platoon, 1 Tank Platoon and 1 HQ Platoon

Line Company
2 Tank Platoons, 2 Infantry Platoons, and 1 HQ Company

HQ Company
1 Supply Platoon, 1 Command Platoon, 1 Medevac Platoon
4th Platoon based on preference

MP Company
4 Infantry Platoons and 1 HQ Platoon

---

Battalion
1st Battalion Has 10 Line Companies and 1 HQ Company

Heavy Battalion (Battalion Primus)
4 Heavy Grav Armour, 3 Medium Grav Armour, 3 Light Grav Armour, 1 Grav HQ

The 2nd-10th Battalion has only 6 line Companies each and 1 HQ Company
Types of Marine Battalions
   Medium Battalion

3 Medium Grav Armour, 3 Light Grav Armour, 1 Grav HQ

Armoured Infantry Battalion

3 Grav Armoured Infantry, 3 Light Grav Armour, 1 Grav HQ

Light Battalion

2 Medium Grav Armour, 4 Light Grav Armour, 1 Grav HQ

Artillery Battalion

6 Grav Artillery NB no HQ

Marine Battalion

6 Marine, 1 Ground HQ

Guard Battalion

5 Medium Grav Armour, 1 Grav Artillery, 1 Grav HQ*

Armoured Cavalry Battalion

3 Light Grav Armour, 1 Medium Grav Armour, 1 Heavy Grav Armour, 1Grav Arty, 1 Grav HQ*



HQ Battalion
4 Support Companies
Administrative, Command, Intelligence, and Liaison Companies

---
Marine Regiment
4 Battalions of Special Troops

A Regiment is about the size of a Brigade. Unlike Brigades, it has organic support troops assigned to it. This allows the Regiment to operate without additional support troops for a limited time. In contrast, a Brigade is totally dependent on Division support units to maintain it in the field.

Guard Regiment

4 Guard Battalion, 1 Grav HQ

Armoured Cavalry Regiment

4 Armoured Cavalry Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

---

Brigade
1st Brigade
Has 1st Battalion and 3 other Battalions

2nd-4th Brigades
Has 2 Battalions each

5th Brigade
Has Remaining Battalions

Artillery Brigade
   3 Battalion of Artillery, 1 Air Defense Battalion, and 1 Rocket Company
Supply Brigade
   
Signal Brigade

Engineer Brigade
   3 Combat Engineer Companies and 3 Construction Engineer Companies

Renegade Strike Brigade

2 Medium Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Renegade Strike Brigade Primus

1 Heavy Battalion, 3 Medium Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Renegade Infantry Brigade

2 Armoured Infantry Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Infantry Brigade Primus

1 Heavy Battalion, 3 AI Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Striker Brigade

4 Light Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Reinforced Heavy Brigade

4 Reinforced Heavy Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Reinforced Medium Brigade

4 Reinforced Medium Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Reinforced Infantry Brigade

4 Reinforced Armour Infantry Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

----

Division
10 Combat Battalions
1 Artillery Brigade
1 Supply Brigade
Signal Battalions
Engineer Battalions

Renegade Strike Division

1 Renegade Brigade Primus, 3 Renegade Strike Brigade, 1 Grav HQ, Various Support Companies

Renegade Infantry Division

1 Infantry Brigade Primus, 2 Renegade Infantry Brigade, 1 Renegade Strike Brigade, 1 Grav HQ, Various Support Companies

Striker Division

4 Stryker Brigades, 1 Grav HQ,  Various Support Companies

Reinforced Division

2 Reinforced Heavy Brigades, 1 Reinforced Medium Brigade, 1 Reinforced Armoured Infantry Brigade, 1 Grav HQ, Various Support Companies.

---------

Army

Squad

Armored
1 Combat Vehicle

Infantry
8 person squad + APC/IFV
----
Platoon
Armored
4 Combat Vehicle

Infantry
4 APC/IFV and 4 8-person squads

HQ Platoon
1 Supply Vehicle, 1 Maintenance Vehicle, and 1 Recovery Vehicle
4th vehicle based on preference and/or role

----
Company
Armored Company:
3 Tank  Platoons, 1 Infantry Platoon, and 1 HQ Platoon

Infantry Company:
3 Infantry Platoon, 1 Tank Platoon and 1 HQ Platoon

Line Company
2 Tank Platoons, 2 Infantry Platoons, and 1 HQ Platoon

HQ Company
1 Supply Platoon, 1 Command Platoon, 1 Medevac Platoon
4th platoon based on preference and/or role

MP Company
4 Infantry Platoons and 1 HQ Platoon

-----

Battalion
10 Companies always forms an Army Battalion
1st-10th Battalion each all have 10 Line Companies and 1 HQ Company

Heavy Battalion (Battalion Primus)
4 Heavy Grav Armour, 3 Medium Grav Armour, 3 Light Grav Armour, 1 Grav HQ

HQ Battalion
4 Support Companies
Administrative, Command, Intelligence, and Liaison Companies

Types of Army Battalions

Army Infantry Battalion

5 Grav Armoured Infantry, 5 Light Grav Armour, 1 Grav HQ

Army Medium Battalion

5 Medium Grav Armour, 5 Light Grav Armour, 1 Grav HQ

Guard Battalion
5 Medium Grav Armor, 5 Grav Artillery, 1 Grav HQ

Army Armored Cavalry Battalion
3 Light Grav Armor, 3 Medium Grav Armor, 3 Heavy Grav Armor, 1 Grav Artillery, 1 Grav HG

Reinforced Heavy Battalion

5 Heavy Grav Armour, 3 Medium Grav Armour, 2 Light Grav Armor, 1 Grav HQ†

Reinforced Medium Battalion

5 Medium Grav Armour, 3 Light Grav Armour, 2 Heavy Grav Armor, 1 Grav HQ†

Reinforced Armoured Infantry Battalion

5 Grav Armoured Infantry, 5 Medium Grav Armour, 1 Grav HQ†

Reinforced Artillery Battalion
10 Grav Artillery


---

Regiment
6 Battalions of Special Troops

A Regiment is about the size of a Brigade. Unlike Brigades, it has organic support troops assigned to it. This allows the Regiment to operate without additional support troops for a limited time. In contrast, a Brigade is totally dependent on Division support units to maintain it in the field.

Guard Regiment

6 Guard Battalion, 1 Grav HQ

Armoured Cavalry Regiment

6 Armoured Cavalry Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

---

Brigade
1st Brigade
Has 1st Battalion and 3 other Battalions
2nd-4th Brigades
Has 2 Battalions each
5th Brigade

Artillery Brigade
   3 Battalion of Artillery, 1 Air Defense Battalion, and 1 Rocket Company
Supply Brigade
   
Signal Brigade

Engineer Brigade
   3 Combat Engineer Companies and 3 Construction Engineer Companies

Renegade Strike Brigade

2 Medium Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Renegade Strike Brigade Primus

1 Heavy Battalion, 3 Medium Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Renegade Infantry Brigade

2 Armoured Infantry Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Infantry Brigade Primus

1 Heavy Battalion, 3 AI Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Striker Brigade

4 Light Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Reinforced Heavy Brigade

4 Reinforced Heavy Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Reinforced Medium Brigade

4 Reinforced Medium Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

Reinforced Infantry Brigade

4 Reinforced Armour Infantry Battalions, 1 Grav HQ

---
Division
10 Combat Battalions
1 Artillery Brigade
1 Supply Brigade
Signal Battalions
Engineer Battalions

Renegade Strike Division

1 Renegade Brigade Primus, 3 Renegade Strike Brigade, 1 Grav HQ, Various Support Companies

Renegade Infantry Division

1 Infantry Brigade Primus, 2 Renegade Infantry Brigade, 1 Renegade Strike Brigade, 1 Grav HQ, Various Support Companies

Striker Division

4 Stryker Brigades, 1 Grav HQ,  Various Support Companies

Reinforced Division

2 Reinforced Heavy Brigades, 1 Reinforced Medium Brigade, 1 Reinforced Armoured Infantry Brigade, 1 Grav HQ, Various Support Companies.

Hominid Mk II

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Re: Renegade Legions to Battletech
« Reply #9 on: 19 September 2021, 14:00:13 »
I don't suppose anybody here has ever tried adapting Renegade Legion tech into something that conforms to BT rules, by any chance? Especially the THOR Kinetic Bombardment orbiters?

If not, would anybody be interested in having a go at doing that now?
« Last Edit: 19 September 2021, 21:20:21 by Hominid Mk II »
Ever felt that The Powers That Were at FASA, WizKids and FanPro never gave Victor Steiner-Davion and the Federated Commonwealth a fair shake in the canon timeline? Then you might be interested in my Victor Victorious AU at

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=65976.0

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marcussmythe

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Re: Renegade Legions to Battletech
« Reply #10 on: 19 September 2021, 22:51:53 »
I don't suppose anybody here has ever tried adapting Renegade Legion tech into something that conforms to BT rules, by any chance? Especially the THOR Kinetic Bombardment orbiters?

If not, would anybody be interested in having a go at doing that now?

We fiddled with it at our local tables back when RL was a live game - but ultimately decided that a faithful translation did not seem to us possible.  RL operates at a completely different tech level, and if you were building ‘Grav Tanks’ that felt like RL Grav Tanks, they would not make a good game played across from Mechs.

Many years later... idk?  What do you want to capture?  I think we have to get away from direct comparisons - no modeling a Romulus Grav Tank in Battletech, or a conflict between the TOG and the Star League.  But what do we do to get the -feel- of that universe in the BTU?

I think the simplest defining factor of the RL universe, compared to Battle-tech, is gravitic manipulation.  So lets add that to the BTU.

For Grav Tanks, I would would take a Tank Chassis.  Give it a hovercrafts lift factors, proportionate to mass.  Let it choose to fly like a hovercraft, or like a VTOL, as it wishes, and can insert from orbit (but not return, IIRC).  Give it the better of a tracked and hover vehicles terrain permissions.  Maybe give it ‘free’ armored motive system.  Its going to be a world-spanking super-tech unit, but it will feel like a RL Grav Tank, and assuming the other tech is the same, it shouldn't be any worse game balance wise than the Clan Invasion vs 3025 Units.

The Interceptors could just be ASFs with no fuel or need for it, no SI based breakdowns, and the ability to run masses into superheavy (and mount up to 3 engines).  Also game-shattering, but it would get the feel.

If Gravitic Manipulation applied to Capital Ships?  Idk.  Game change such as to be unrecognizable.

How does it come in?  Some roman flavored scattered group of humanity discovers gravitic manipulation and comes home.

And then some jerk combines grav tech with mecha, including transformable mech - and we all know where that ends.  :):):)

PPS - as for Thor, Id look at maybe something like a 5 or 10 ton computer controlled ASF that crashes into the ground unit?
« Last Edit: 19 September 2021, 22:55:26 by marcussmythe »

Hominid Mk II

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Re: Renegade Legions to Battletech
« Reply #11 on: 19 September 2021, 23:12:03 »
It's mostly the THOR system I'm considering trying to adapt into my AU. Surely it can't help but be rather less hi-tech than other RL weapon systems? Shouldn't that make it at least somewhat less difficult to adapt for the BTU?

I really wish I had access to a RL Rulebook right now, but I don't. So I can't do this for myself and all I can do is ask other people for their input.
Ever felt that The Powers That Were at FASA, WizKids and FanPro never gave Victor Steiner-Davion and the Federated Commonwealth a fair shake in the canon timeline? Then you might be interested in my Victor Victorious AU at

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=65976.0

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