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Author Topic: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)  (Read 2420 times)

Giovanni Blasini

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Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« on: 16 October 2020, 19:25:38 »
Just a little something I've been messing around with:

Code: [Select]
Haven Class Light Hospital Ship

Mass: 300 tons

Movement Type: Naval

Power Plant:  Fusion
Cruising Speed: 21.6 kph
Maximum Speed: 32.4 kph
Armor: BAR 7
Armament:
  2 Laser AMS


Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-D
Cost: 1,270,325 C-bills





 
Type: Haven Class
Chassis Type: Naval (Medium)
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Mass: 300 tons
Battle Value: 294

Equipment                                         Mass (tons)
Chassis/Controls                                   45.0
Engine/Trans.                                      17.0
    Cruise MP:2
Flank MP:3
Heat Sinks                    14                   14.0
Fuel                                                0.0
Armor Factor (BAR 7)          104                   5.0

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Front                   30        30   
     R/L Side              30/30     25/25   
     Rear                    30        24   


Weapons
and Ammo              Location    Tonnage   
Laser AMS               Left        1.5     
Laser AMS              Right        1.5     

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Light Vehicle (2)       2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (Refrigerated) (9.999780000000001 tons)1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (35.0 tons)       1 Door   

Notes:
Lifeboat(12; 1 ton each)
Field Kitchen(3; 3 tons each)
MASH Equipment (20 theaters)(22.5 tons)
Cargo Container (10 tons)(2; 10 tons each)
Communications Equipment (6 tons)(6 tons)



Let me show you its features!

  • Three field kitchens to assist in relief efforts, allowing it to feed not only its own crew, but at least 300 people as well.
  • MASH with 20 hospital beds, which is of course the main purpose behind the ship.
  • Extra communications equipment to coordinate relief efforts.
  • Lifeboats!
  • Two light vehicle bays, which we'll get to in a moment.
  • A pair of laser AMS, because it's a dangerous galaxy.  Even the standard MASH truck in TR3026 had a pair of small lasers.  These fill similar roles and, IIRC, laser AMS can be used like an impromptu SPL.

Support craft for the light vehicle bays will be in the next post.
"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #1 on: 16 October 2020, 20:09:33 »
OK, the two light vehicle support craft I envisioned:

First, the Punto MASH hovercraft.  Moves 10/15 for when it needs to get somewhere in a hurry, and has 8 beds of its own, allowing it to operate in the field to stabilize patients, and four tons of cargo for supplies:

Code: [Select]
Punto Class MASH Hovercraft
<p>
<b>Mass: </b>50 tons<br/>

<b>Movement Type: </b>Hover<br/>

<b>Power Plant: </b> Fusion<br/>
<b>Cruising Speed: </b>108 kph<br/>
<b>Maximum Speed: </b>162 kph<br/>
<b>Armor: </b>BAR 5</b><br/>
<b>Armament:</b><br/>


<b>Communication System: </b>Unknown<br/>
<b>Targeting & Tracking System: </b>Unknown<br/>
<b>Introduction Year:</b> 3145<br/>
<b>Tech Rating/Availability:</b> D/X-X-X-C<br/>
<b>Cost:</b> 842,125 C-bills<br/>
</p>




 
Type: Punto Class
Chassis Type: Hover (Medium)
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Mass: 50 tons
Battle Value: 87

Equipment                                         Mass (tons)
Chassis/Controls                                   12.5
Engine/Trans.                                      21.0
    Cruise MP:10
Flank MP:15
Heat Sinks                    0                     0.0
Fuel                                                0.0
Armor Factor (BAR 5)          54                    2.0

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Front                   5         14   
     R/L Side               5/5      14/14   
     Rear                    5         12   


Weapons
and Ammo              Location    Tonnage   
None

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (4.0 tons)        1 Door   

Notes:
MASH Equipment (8 theaters)(10.5 tons)


I do not have the energy to wrestle with MegaMekLab and its weird text formatting right now, so you get to see the <b> and other goofiness.

Second is the Nightengale MASH WiGE.  It's only 20 tons, moves 8/12, and downgrades to only 4 OR beds, and 0.5 ton of cargo, but it's 20 tons instead of 50 tons, is amphibious, and costs less than 320 thousand C-Bills:

Code: [Select]
Nightengale MASH WiGE
<p>
<b>Mass: </b>20 tons<br/>

<b>Movement Type: </b>Wing in Ground Effect<br/>

<b>Power Plant: </b> Fusion<br/>
<b>Cruising Speed: </b>86.4 kph<br/>
<b>Maximum Speed: </b>129.6 kph<br/>
<b>Armor: </b>BAR 5</b><br/>
<b>Armament:</b><br/>


<b>Communication System: </b>Unknown<br/>
<b>Targeting & Tracking System: </b>Unknown<br/>
<b>Introduction Year:</b> 3145<br/>
<b>Tech Rating/Availability:</b> D/X-X-X-C<br/>
<b>Cost:</b> 317,756 C-bills<br/>
</p>




 
Type: Nightengale
Chassis Type: Wing in Ground Effect (Medium)
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Mass: 20 tons
Battle Value: 32

Equipment                                         Mass (tons)
Chassis/Controls                                    5.5
Engine/Trans.                                       7.0
    Cruise MP:8
Flank MP:12
Heat Sinks                    0                     0.0
Fuel                                                0.0
Armor Factor (BAR 5)          14                    0.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Front                   2         5     
     R/L Side               2/2       3/3   
     Rear                    2         3     


Weapons
and Ammo              Location    Tonnage   
None

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (0.5 tons)        1 Door   

Notes:
Features Amphibious Chassis and Controls Modification
MASH Equipment (4 theaters)(6.5 tons)

"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

idea weenie

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #2 on: 16 October 2020, 21:49:55 »
For the Haven class, did a bureaucrat really need to specify the Bay 2 refrigerated cargo tonnage down to the thousandth of a microgram?    :D

Still, nice designs for on-planet work.  The Haven design is small enough that several of them can be sent to various locations and provide local care, even using their own small vehicles to get people onboard.  2 trips with the hovercraft will get the ship's OR capacity mostly filled, then the hovercraft can use their own capacity to also treat people.  If a hovercraft has to remain on-site, a WiGE can be unpacked from cargo to keep transferring people.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #3 on: 16 October 2020, 22:20:50 »
I set the refrigerated cargo to 10 tons. MegaMekLab is weird.

Oh, forgot to mention the two shipping containers on the Haven.  I actually see them as kind of being like big, rectangular OmniPods

One of my inspirations was the Spearhead class JHSV, which they're actually thinking of using cargo container "pods" for different mission loadouts, including as a smaller hospital ship.
"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

Dragon Cat

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #4 on: 25 October 2020, 18:18:48 »
I like this i might have to use it in a story idea its just inspired
Below are links to my fan fiction pages.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-(full)/

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-full-part-2/

As always please enjoy and if you have any questions about my AU (or want to chat about ideas I could incorporate into it) feel free to PM me.

maxcarrion

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #5 on: 17 December 2020, 07:39:14 »
I think the Haven might be lacking some things.

First, 2/3 is really slow - I'd want at least 3/5 if you ever want it to get anywhere.

Second, are 2 laser AMS really sensible?  laser AMS are a lot heavier than regular AMS but don't require ammo, I feel 2 AMS and 1T of ammo would be better in all but extreme edge cases and save you 1T. 

Third, are there any crew quarters?  Not even infantry bays? Where do the crew sleep?  Extra infantry bays could be used to house walking wounded, refugees, pre/post op patients etc.

Forth 100T of light vehicles and 100T of support equipment/stores seems off.  Personally I'd ditch one vehicle, use that tonnage to add quarters and infantry bays, speed etc. 

Fifth, the vehicles, I'd be inclined to a single fast vehicle set up as an ambulance/people/cargo carrier rather than a fully contained hospital ward.  I'd go for a VTOL with amphibious mod, infantry bay, paramedic equipment and lift hoist - if there are injured it can collect and airlift them back to the hospital ship under care.  Or it can ferry supplies out to setup a field hospital.  As per 6 below your 20T WIGE doesn't have the space to carry the 20 medical personnel that would work the 4 MASH theatres.

Sixth, 20 Theatres is an extreme amount - these are surgical suites.  You need beds (like infantry bays or steerage quarters) for people awaiting surgery and maybe 2 theatres for a vessel this size.  Each theatre is serviced by a crew of 5! you do not have beds for 100 additional crew. 

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #6 on: 18 December 2020, 01:16:21 »
I think the Haven might be lacking some things.

First, 2/3 is really slow - I'd want at least 3/5 if you ever want it to get anywhere.


It cruises at just under 12 knots, and flank speed is just over 17 knots. That's not awful, and most hospital ships aren't blazingly fast, and the extra mass to go faster would have had to come from somewhere it could better use.

Quote

Second, are 2 laser AMS really sensible?  laser AMS are a lot heavier than regular AMS but don't require ammo, I feel 2 AMS and 1T of ammo would be better in all but extreme edge cases and save you 1T. 


Would have saved me more than that with heat sinks, but also introduce something that could explode.

Quote

Third, are there any crew quarters?  Not even infantry bays? Where do the crew sleep?  Extra infantry bays could be used to house walking wounded, refugees, pre/post op patients etc.


Considered integral to the design of a ship this size.  This isn't a Large Naval Vessel, though.

Quote

Forth 100T of light vehicles and 100T of support equipment/stores seems off.  Personally I'd ditch one vehicle, use that tonnage to add quarters and infantry bays, speed etc. 


Uhhh...

It has 10 tons devoted to refrigerated cargo for food and for medical supplies that need to stay refrigerated, looks some vaccines or other drugs do.

It has 35 tons of general cargo for spare parts, dry goods, etc.

It has spots for two 10-ton shipping containers, taking a page from the real life Spearhead class EFT, using them for special mission modules.

It has multiple field kitchens to support relief efforts.

That's...not all that much.

Quote

Fifth, the vehicles, I'd be inclined to a single fast vehicle set up as an ambulance/people/cargo carrier rather than a fully contained hospital ward.  I'd go for a VTOL with amphibious mod, infantry bay, paramedic equipment and lift hoist - if there are injured it can collect and airlift them back to the hospital ship under care.  Or it can ferry supplies out to setup a field hospital.  As per 6 below your 20T WIGE doesn't have the space to carry the 20 medical personnel that would work the 4 MASH theatres.

Cool, cool.  I mean, it's only, what, around 500-5700 tons too light to even use a VTOL while underway, because helipads require a much larger Large Naval Vessel under the rules, and weigh 500 tons by themselves

[quite]
Sixth, 20 Theatres is an extreme amount - these are surgical suites.  You need beds (like infantry bays or steerage quarters) for people awaiting surgery and maybe 2 theatres for a vessel this size.  Each theatre is serviced by a crew of 5! you do not have beds for 100 additional crew.
[/quote]

Oh no, at 0.20 ton per officer's quarters, 0.05 ton per enlisted, and 0.02 ton per steerage quarters, whatever will I do?

Probably cut the cargo by 11 tons for the 23 officers and 113 enlisted.  The two vehicles add 14 more officers and 68 more enlisted so...round up to 7 more tons, knocking the base cargo to 17 tons.
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maxcarrion

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #7 on: 18 December 2020, 05:14:03 »


It cruises at just under 12 knots, and flank speed is just over 17 knots. That's not awful, and most hospital ships aren't blazingly fast, and the extra mass to go faster would have had to come from somewhere it could better use.
 

Sure, that's not terrible for a current day hospital ship but huge planets with small Navy's means bluewater assets generally have to cover more ground as population densities are much lower than modern earth.  A cruise of 17 knots would put it inline with a modern day container ship.  A flank speed of nearly 30 knots would certainly get to relief efforts/emergencies a lot faster.  There's no denying it would come with a cost though.

Quote
Would have saved me more than that with heat sinks, but also introduce something that could explode.

Sure, but if things are hammering you enough to risk an ammo explosion then perhaps some extra speed or real weapons would be more useful than some overly heavy AMS system

Quote
Considered integral to the design of a ship this size.  This isn't a Large Naval Vessel, though.

So no one sleeps on this ship?  Not one bed?  I don't think there's any chassis that assumes quarters - you can often assume crew stations e.g. you don't need to add seats or decks, but you need quarters or at least bays for people to sleep in.  A 5T infantry bay could sleep 28 (hammocks and buckets pretty much), a 7T 2nd class quarter can comfortably sleep 1 (I hate that there is no bluewater quarters as they would not need the same oxygen recycling or be so long between resupply etc.  5T steerage is excessive) - 35T could get 56 in bays and 5 steerage for Captain and 4 Doctors.  Not luxury but bear minimum.  Keep the bays split and you have space for 28 crew crammed in and a 28 bed medical ward - also desperately crammed in.
 
Quote
Uhhh...

It has 10 tons devoted to refrigerated cargo for food and for medical supplies that need to stay refrigerated, looks some vaccines or other drugs do.

It has 35 tons of general cargo for spare parts, dry goods, etc.

It has spots for two 10-ton shipping containers, taking a page from the real life Spearhead class EFT, using them for special mission modules.

It has multiple field kitchens to support relief efforts.

That's...not all that much.

Maybe I wasn't clear here - I think 100T of support equipment (Theatres, Supplies, shipping containers, Field Kitchens etc.) is probably ok but 100T of vehicle bays on a 300T boat is excessive and that leaves not enough boat.  You need quarters, engines, supplies, beds etc.  far more than you need a second vehicle docking station.  I would say the first bay is important but the second is extremely luxurious on a boat that does 17 knots and has no beds.

Quote
Cool, cool.  I mean, it's only, what, around 500-5700 tons too light to even use a VTOL while underway, because helipads require a much larger Large Naval Vessel under the rules, and weigh 500 tons by themselves
I flipped and flopped on this one as, indeed, you cannot have a helipad.  It's not a combat vessel though so simply stopping, pushing the VTOL out to bob on the water and taking off from there is totally an option.  To be honest you could deploy it from a cargo bay in just a few minutes, have a 10T VTOL and save 40T of space but I think a hanger is probably worth it.  I went with VTOL as there are a lot of places Hovercraft can't go and a WIGE can't (or shouldn't - not sure it is covered RAW) carry external cargo.  A larger WIGE with 20T of cargo space and a 3T Infantry Compartment would probably be fine though if you want a smoother deployment.


Quote
Oh no, at 0.20 ton per officer's quarters, 0.05 ton per enlisted, and 0.02 ton per steerage quarters, whatever will I do?

Probably cut the cargo by 11 tons for the 23 officers and 113 enlisted.  The two vehicles add 14 more officers and 68 more enlisted so...round up to 7 more tons, knocking the base cargo to 17 tons.
An officers quarters is 10T!, steerage is 5T.  0.02 ton per steerage quarters means the quarters weigh about a fifth of the person themselves who likely weigh around 0.1 ton.

At 4 times the size of a Haven the HMS President was a 1300T frigate with a crew of 93.  Putting 140 crew on a 300T boat is ludicrous and that doesn't even cover the 60 medical crew for the 2 MASH vehicles.  160 Medics, 30 crew (you haven't included crew numbers)?  Putting the 190 people in infantry bays is 7x5T bays - so an absolute bare minimum of 35T and that is housing everyone in Infantry Bays.

I'm also not sure what situation you envisage that would require 32 concurrent surgical operations, less than 60T of supplies and no extended medical care such as beds.  I mean, that's more surgical suites than most full size hospitals by a long way.  The USNS Mercy, a 65,000T hospital ship has just 12 operating theatres and over 1,000 beds and over 1,000 medical personnel. That means, by scale, the ship has 1 medical personnel and 1 bed for every 65T and 1 operating theatre for every 5500T

maxcarrion

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #8 on: 18 December 2020, 05:47:41 »
If you are curious, the Royal Albatross is 276T with a 34m deck, it sleeps 22 and can fit ~200 crammed onto the deck - just an example of what 190 people on a 300T ship might look like (standing room only)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Albatross_(ship)

The 250t torpedo boat with a crew of 39 was a 60m long WW2 warships that weighed just over 300T fully laden.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/250t-class_torpedo_boat

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #9 on: 18 December 2020, 15:22:50 »
An officers quarters is 10T!, steerage is 5T.  0.02 ton per steerage quarters means the quarters weigh about a fifth of the person themselves who likely weigh around 0.1 ton.

On a DropShip.  Or a WarShip.  Or even a Small Craft.  You see wings on this?

And, yes, while looking up the weights on my phone, I misread the equipment slots requirement as being the mass requirement.

But, with that said, spending as much mass as a spacecraft requires for quarters on a 300-ton oceangoing ship is nonsensical.

Let's look at the actual rules for Support Vehicles, and construction examples.

The closest we have for comparison in Tech Manual for a vehicle like this is the Dixon Law Enforcement Airship, which, conveniently, is also 300 tons.  The construction example handily talks about its crewing and quarters requirements on pages 138-139.  Instead of spending, oh, 152 tons for their crew quarters for the 4 officers and 16 enslisted which, of course, is more than half the mass of the airship itself, what does the construction example do?

It spends 6 tons on two foot infantry compartments, covering the 20 crew plus additional light security personnel and the crew of its own light vehicles.

So, doing something similar, I'd need 8 bays, or around 24 tons, and 8 item slots.

Quote
At 4 times the size of a Haven the HMS President was a 1300T frigate with a crew of 93.  Putting 140 crew on a 300T boat is ludicrous and that doesn't even cover the 60 medical crew for the 2 MASH vehicles.  160 Medics, 30 crew (you haven't included crew numbers)?  Putting the 190 people in infantry bays is 7x5T bays - so an absolute bare minimum of 35T and that is housing everyone in Infantry Bays.

Which:

1. Is how the rules actually do account for vehicles of this size.
2. Is still wrong, since foot infantry compartments are 3 tons, not 5.

Quote
I'm also not sure what situation you envisage that would require 32 concurrent surgical operations, less than 60T of supplies and no extended medical care such as beds.  I mean, that's more surgical suites than most full size hospitals by a long way.  The USNS Mercy, a 65,000T hospital ship has just 12 operating theatres and over 1,000 beds and over 1,000 medical personnel. That means, by scale, the ship has 1 medical personnel and 1 bed for every 65T and 1 operating theatre for every 5500T

Didn't realize the Mercy had so few.  Interesting.

As for the others, they're as much about operating a distance from the main facility, in the same role the MASH truck takes.
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maxcarrion

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #10 on: 19 December 2020, 11:39:14 »
On a DropShip.  Or a WarShip.  Or even a Small Craft.  You see wings on this?

And, yes, while looking up the weights on my phone, I misread the equipment slots requirement as being the mass requirement.

But, with that said, spending as much mass as a spacecraft requires for quarters on a 300-ton oceangoing ship is nonsensical.
I mean, I did say a couple of posts ago that quarters on a bluewater vessel were irritatingly overweight but there are no official rules that allow otherwise.


Quote
Let's look at the actual rules for Support Vehicles, and construction examples.

The closest we have for comparison in Tech Manual for a vehicle like this is the Dixon Law Enforcement Airship, which, conveniently, is also 300 tons.  The construction example handily talks about its crewing and quarters requirements on pages 138-139.  Instead of spending, oh, 152 tons for their crew quarters for the 4 officers and 16 enslisted which, of course, is more than half the mass of the airship itself, what does the construction example do?

It spends 6 tons on two foot infantry compartments, covering the 20 crew plus additional light security personnel and the crew of its own light vehicles.

So, doing something similar, I'd need 8 bays, or around 24 tons, and 8 item slots.

Which:

1. Is how the rules actually do account for vehicles of this size.
2. Is still wrong, since foot infantry compartments are 3 tons, not 5.

1.  This isn't what the rules say, this is an example of a different vehicle with a different mission parameter - a mission parameter that sees them deployed for hours not months
2.  Naval vessels this size use exactly the same rules as dropships, or in fact support airships
3.  This is how the rules apply to fitting infantry compartments - which, as per Tech Manual, is a bench seat and some equipment hooks - suitable to put in an APC to carry an infantry platoon a couple of hours into battle.
4.  An infantry compartment is 3 tons and as above carries 28men on bench seats with a bergen and rifle each, an infantry bay is 5 tons and has luxuries like cot beds and shared toilets thrown in.  People can live there for days but they use increased supplies and have zero luxuries or space.  If you want to really ram them in an Infantry Bay might be sufficient but deploying doctors on a ship for months at a time with nothing but a backpack, a cot bed and 1 toilet between 7 in a communal head might not be what they signed up for.  It would be better than a bench seat and a hook for a bag that you are suggesting though.

Quote
Didn't realize the Mercy had so few.  Interesting.

As for the others, they're as much about operating a distance from the main facility, in the same role the MASH truck takes.
If it's operating long periods away from base it will need substantial supplies of its own and doesn't really need it's own light vehicle bay to keep it ready for instant launch.  The MASH WIGE or Hover could operate completely separately from the HAVEN but could be restocked using a Supply vehicle from the Haven.  A MASH WIGE absolutely can carry the medics in an infantry compartment as they only need to be on board while travelling between camp sites. 

Wolf72

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #11 on: 02 January 2021, 21:10:28 »
I'd still swap out LAMS for regular AMS ... dropping those heatsinks would give you a lot more AMS to put on.  Who's shooting at the medical frigate anyway! (well, other than Imperials ... but then why'd you bring that thing to attack the  DS II anyway?)

When I made my support naval craft, I then went and made a support-support craft.  One for straight up cargo (and lift hoists to transfer said cargo) and another that was basically a floating motel ... couldn't find any other way around creating berthing for med techs and what not.  So there would be a task force floating around, flying a flag of non-combatant.

Hard to get a 300 ton support craft to be a self-contained unit, if you do you loose out on quantity of ability (cargo, services, etc)
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truetanker

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #12 on: 25 January 2021, 08:18:49 »
If I'm reading this correctly, your using a fusion engine wich should have 10 free SHS built in, why are you wasting them on 14 tons?

you just need 4 of them to use the LAMS, with 10 extra tons leftover.

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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #13 on: 04 February 2021, 01:07:36 »
If I'm reading this correctly, your using a fusion engine wich should have 10 free SHS built in, why are you wasting them on 14 tons?

you just need 4 of them to use the LAMS, with 10 extra tons leftover.

TT

I don't think you get free heat sinks with support vehicle fusion engines.
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truetanker

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Re: Haven Class Light Hospital Ship (and Support Craft)
« Reply #14 on: 04 February 2021, 17:23:29 »
Stand corrected, no " free " sinks, must include if using energy weapons and such.

TT
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