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Author Topic: Nemo class Dreadnought Submarine  (Read 3587 times)

Cryhavok101

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Nemo class Dreadnought Submarine
« on: 28 February 2018, 20:19:08 »
So I was scrolling through social media and came across a picture that really made me want to make this. It's not a perfect fit for the pic, but it's what I was inspired to make almost immediately anyway. Enjoy:

Nemo class Dreadnought Submarine

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Type: Nemo class Dreadnought Submarine
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Movement Type: Naval (Large, Template E)
Mass: 100,000 tons

Equipment Mass
Chassis: 16,830.00
Engine: Fusion (F) 23,850.00
Cruise MP: 2
Flank MP: 3
Heat Sinks: 180 180.00
Power Amplifiers: 0.00
Fuel: 0.00
Turrets: 22.00

Armor Factor (Ferro-Lamellor): 5,089 363.355
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front 80 849
Front R/L Side 80 848/848
Rear R/L Side 80 848/848
Rear 80 848


Weapons and Equipment Location Mass
28 Subcapital Launcher Piranha Front 2,800.00
6 PPC ER (IS) Front 42.00
1 LAMS (IS) Front 1.50
1 Harjel System Front 1.00
3 SRT 6 (IS)      Right Front 9.00
1 LAMS (IS) Right Front 1.50
1 Harjel System Right Front 1.00
3 SRT 6 (IS)      Left Front 9.00
1 LAMS (IS) Left Front 1.50
1 Harjel System Left Front 1.00
10 LRT 20 + Artemis IV (IS) Right Sponson 110.00
10 LRT 20 + Artemis IV (IS) Left Sponson 110.00
3 SRT 6 (IS)      Right Aft 9.00
1 LAMS (IS) Right Aft 1.50
1 Harjel System Right Aft 1.00
3 SRT 6 (IS)      Left Aft 9.00
1 LAMS (IS) Left Aft 1.50
1 Harjel System Left Aft 1.00
6 PPC ER (IS) Aft 42.00
1 LAMS (IS) Aft 1.50
1 Harjel System Aft 1.00
Advanced Fire Control Body 314.40
Comms Equipment Body 15.00
Armored Motive System Body 10,000.00
Angel ECM Body 2.00
Bloodhound Active Probe Body 2.00

Ammo Mass
CASE 0.50
Subcapital Launcher Piranha Ammo (280 Missiles) 2,800.00
LRT 20 + Artemis IV (IS) Ammo (1200 Salvos) 200.00
SRT 6 (IS) Ammo (600 Salvoes)         40.00

Crew: 7,547 Total 25,192.025
23 Crew
528 Gunners/Other
2000 Bay Personnel
5000 Steerage Passengers

Cargo:
50 Light Vehicle Bays 2 Doors 2,500.00
50 Heavy Vehicle Bays 2 Doors 5, 000.00
50 Super-Heavy Vehicle Bays 2 Doors 10,000.00
100 4-Man Battle Armor Bays 1 Door 800.00
5,520.12 tons standard Cargo 1 Door 5,520.120


Notes: Features Armored and Submersible Chassis Modifications

Design Quirks: Searchlights, Improved Communication, Improved Sensors, Improved Targeting (Long), Difficult to Maintain, Non-standard Parts, Hard to Pilot, Poor Performance, Poor Targeting (Short)


Built in a cooperative venture between the remains of Clan Nova Cat and their hosts in the Draconis Combine. Intended as a submersible city that could sink entire fleets of water vessels long before being threatend itself. Much like it's Davion counterpart, the Georgg von Trap class, the design was a behemoth more than capable of it's mission.

This vessel features extremely thick fero-lamellor armor backed up by clan harjel systems, laser antimissile systems and an armored motive system. An electronic warfare package of communications gear, angel ecm and bloodhound active probe enable it to hunt targets and interfere with their ability to hunt it back.

An array of long and short range missiles protect it against close in combat, while a massive array of subcapitla missiles are capable of engaging targets from a long distance, even while this vessel is submerged. ER PPCs mounted on the front and back of the vessel give it a punch under water or on the surface that doesn't rely on missiles.

It carries a city inside it, with 150 vehicle bays from light to super heavy, 400 battle armored marines, and admittedly spartan accomodations for over 7,000 personnel (5000 more than is needed to operate at peak efficiency), the vessel can evacuate the entire command struction of a theatre if neccessary, and enable them to continue fighting for a long time to come.

While it is deadly at long ranges, it has flaws in it's sensors and targettign systems that make it difficult to target enemies at close range. Usually this is not a problem with it's array of weaponry and horde of smaller carried ships. It's other major weakness is that parts for these vessels must be custom ordered, as there is no central plant that manufactures them, and the combination of clan and inner sphere technology makes the ship difficult to keep operational.

Though it has yet to see combat against anything but some very foolish pirates who didn't understand that it's surface to surface missiles could reach orbit rather easily. Combine forces believe it will perform well, and more than adequately replace other large vessels in serve today.

Wrangler

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Re: Nemo class Dreadnought Submarine
« Reply #1 on: 01 March 2018, 09:44:12 »
That's a cool picture, but i see some problems with concept stats wise.

You have NO torpedoes on this submarine.  LRTs (Long Range Torpedoes) no SRTs. 

I'm not entirely sure how effective LAMs will be underwater, but the LRMs and SRMs would be strictly for surface action.

I honestly don't think the SubCaps will work underwater, not aimed horizontally.  I know Wyvens are design with them aimed up.

Were there rules that stated Subcap Missiles can be fired that way against other underwater vessels?
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Cryhavok101

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Re: Nemo class Dreadnought Submarine
« Reply #2 on: 01 March 2018, 11:44:42 »
Fixed the missile/torpedo issue. Was just using the wrong terminology, thanks for catching it.

The rules for capital and subcapital weapons for orbit to surface, surface to orbit, and surface to surface are in Strategic Operations. It states they can be launched from underwater and explains the penalties (+1 to artillery flight times, and +3 to hit), and it states that basically only the missiles can be used for surface to surface attacks. Somewhere it also explains doing damage to things on or near the surface of the water (it explodes on the surface and does damage down vertically like it does horizontally, reducing for each depth it goes). Basically it would need to catch things on or near the surface with the subcapital missiles, but could do so from fairly far away.

I'm at work at the moment so I can't pull up page numbers for you.

Cryhavok101

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Re: Nemo class Dreadnought Submarine
« Reply #3 on: 01 March 2018, 11:49:23 »
Oh and to answer your question of LAMS, I will refer you to here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=59127.msg1358690#msg1358690

The last question asked and answered. Yes they work against torpedoes.

Col Toda

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Re: Nemo class Dreadnought Submarine
« Reply #4 on: 09 March 2018, 14:17:25 »
With only 5000+ tons of cargo space am I correct that the consumables for that many people means this thing can only stay out to sea less than a month at a time . So something jumps in and you deploy this giving it an operational radius of about 1000km before resupply?  Do large support navy ships use the consumable rates of drop ships ? Nice idea I just think you are trying to shoehorn too much on the same hull . At this speed you need about 8 of them to properly cover a quarter hemisphere . Still if the planet you are defending only has one significant target to raid or the multiple targets are within 100 km of each other just one is fine .  I would design 2 subs one really fast with the subcapital missles and one moderatly fast with the bays . The Lysander idea of a submersible aerospace base projects power effectively and has the virtue of just one can contribute to a whole planetary defense . The only real issue with this design is speed . I think it is way too slow at double the speed you can reduce absolute numbers of units to cover any part of a planet . Your Von Trap submarine is way more effective due to speed . The only problem with that one is you installed RISC hyper lasers a weapon that will explode. Expensive self destructing hardware in a confined self enclosed sub just does not make sense for me.
« Last Edit: 09 March 2018, 14:46:22 by Col Toda »

Cryhavok101

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Re: Nemo class Dreadnought Submarine
« Reply #5 on: 10 March 2018, 01:05:10 »
The intention is to use it's 150 carried vehicles to keep it supplied. But yeah, unlike the Davions, the Combine doesn't have as much experience with fortifying the oceans, so I had the lack of supplies as a deliberate weakness in the design, especially if it's fully loaded with passengers. I went a little overboard with passengers lol.

This is pretty slow compared to the Georg von Trapp class, it also outguns the other vessel by a very, very large margin. It has tougher defenses, and underwater, can bring greater firepower to bear against the other vessel. It would fail utterly at hunting a von Trapp due to that design's speed and stealth abilities, but if a von Trapp had to hunt this thing it would be a difficult fight for it to win. Not to mention it's 150 carried vehicles of various sizes.

Fortunately both ships are too big for anything to transport and drop directly into combat, so one of them meeting the other is unlikely as the attacker would have to be assembled on planet, and both of them have the firepower to end that threat before it's realized.

With all the defenses, firepower, and support I built into this thing, speed and resupply seemed like appropriate weaknesses for it as well.

idea weenie

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Re: Nemo class Dreadnought Submarine
« Reply #6 on: 11 March 2018, 01:11:49 »
With only 5000+ tons of cargo space am I correct that the consumables for that many people means this thing can only stay out to sea less than a month at a time . So something jumps in and you deploy this giving it an operational radius of about 1000km before resupply?  Do large support navy ships use the consumable rates of drop ships ? Nice idea I just think you are trying to shoehorn too much on the same hull . At this speed you need about 8 of them to properly cover a quarter hemisphere . Still if the planet you are defending only has one significant target to raid or the multiple targets are within 100 km of each other just one is fine .  I would design 2 subs one really fast with the subcapital missles and one moderatly fast with the bays . The Lysander idea of a submersible aerospace base projects power effectively and has the virtue of just one can contribute to a whole planetary defense . The only real issue with this design is speed . I think it is way too slow at double the speed you can reduce absolute numbers of units to cover any part of a planet . Your Von Trap submarine is way more effective due to speed . The only problem with that one is you installed RISC hyper lasers a weapon that will explode. Expensive self destructing hardware in a confined self enclosed sub just does not make sense for me.

The one advantage the submarine might have is fusion power to desalinate salt water and crack ocean water (or other fluid) for oxygen.  So two major consumables/recyclables don't have to be brought along.  I'd expect a lot of dehydrated foods would be used (and not very popular), though spare parts would likely be the main consumables on board.

Then again, you might pair it with other submarines that are little more than milk cows, whose only job is to keep this monster supplied.  They simply go out, submerge, and imitate a hole in the water for the next 12 months.

The real fun would be developing a Stromburg class cargo ship whose main job is to serve as hidden docks for the cargo submarines, so they can be resupplied from the cargo ship, without the cargo sub being spotted from orbit.

Col Toda

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Re: Nemo class Dreadnought Submarine
« Reply #7 on: 12 March 2018, 10:18:15 »
I thought the Lysander WAS used by the Combine . When assembling the infrastructure of a planet having most of military targets on a pennisula makes it better to defend.

Cryhavok101

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Re: Nemo class Dreadnought Submarine
« Reply #8 on: 12 March 2018, 16:31:36 »
I thought the Lysander WAS used by the Combine . When assembling the infrastructure of a planet having most of military targets on a pennisula makes it better to defend.

I am not sure what this is responding to, but in case it is to my comment about the combine not being as experienced at fortifying the oceans as the fed suns:

The Lysander is a combine vessel, but I was referring to Hans Davion's underwater fortifications throughout his territory before the 4th succession war. The fed suns have been going for a much larger underwater military for a lot longer, from what I can see, at least from their defenses.

Comparatively the Laysander was introduced in 3047, and it's only major actions I know about are against ghost bears and word of blake. The Lysander also works quite a bit differently and is far more vulnerable to the enemy than the Nemo, and it's about a quarter the size.

The Lysander is an aircraft carrier and must surface to deliver it's aircraft, and can even support them with flak fire from it's arrow IVs. The Nemo doesn't carry aircraft, not even VTOLs or Wiges. It carries more submarines. It doesn't have to surface to engage it's enemies. It can not only engage surface, airborne, and even spaceborne targets while submerged, but in order to engage it back you almost have to be submerged yourself. A place where it's 150 carried submarines are gonna take a toll on any force that tries it. It's enough over kill that it can spare a lot of that force for cargo and general support.

That is why I am saying it is more of a mobile fortress than anything else. Both the Nemo and the Lysander go the same speed, but they have very different purposes, and one doesn't negate the need for the other. The Nemo is closer to filling the role of a castle brian than the role the Lysander fills. It's meant more to be a nigh unassailable place to attack from. Now, give my Nemo an escort of a few Lysanders, which can handle some of the supply burden on the ship, and any attacker would be hard-pressed to be able to drop a force that could actually hunt the group down.

In comparison to what I did for the Fedsuns, the von Trapp reinforces hans' remaining underwater bases the same way a sniper can reinforce front line troops. Sure one on one against other canon water forces it is terrifying, but between it's ability to engage basically anything that can be fielded, and it's ability to disappear underwater with it's stealth armor, and it's high speed allowing it to strike again in unforeseen ways, the two fight in very, very different ways. The Nemo is more focused on defeating an enemy in a stand-up fight, and being all but impossible to take down, where the von Trapp is a cunning beast that will traumatize an attacker with it's unpredictability. The von Trap also doesn't need to be the underwater hardpoint, since for the federated suns, those were already well established long before the von Trapp was ever built.

When I said, the Fedsuns were more experienced at fortifying their oceans that is the sort of thing I was thinking of. I was also thinking that the Nemo was being built by a combination of cultures that loved honor duels. While the DC may not be as bad as the clans about expecting quick engagements, I figured this would be a good way to show their influence. I didn't want to build a flawless vehicle. I wanted to incorporate a weakness and a supply deficiency seemed like a good way to go to me, especially with the ways it could make up that deficiency via it's carried vessels and possible escorts. It is a weakness that can be exploited if the enemy learns of it. I also thought that with it being a vertitable fortress, making it's weakness essentially laying siege to it would be a more interesting weakness.

Future plans to further shore up this weakness would probably be along the lines of it's namesake. Captain Nemo supplied his fictional submarine from undersea farming. Building an undersea hydroponics and supply chain on worlds that housed these would be a way of furthering the fortification with the planet.

Now, I sort of rambled, so I hope that all makes sense to you, if something didn't, please feel free to ask for clarifications.