Register Register

Author Topic: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)  (Read 63127 times)

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25097
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #990 on: 19 May 2022, 17:42:34 »
Is that a three-wheel Vespa? ???

ANS Kamas P81

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11558
  • Clan ⑨ From Outer Space
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #991 on: 19 May 2022, 18:48:10 »
Nah, just two wheels, I think you're looking at a spare tire behind the front portion.  Other than the recoilless rifle, it's a pretty stock Vespa.

chanman

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Architect of suffering
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #992 on: 19 May 2022, 19:03:24 »
Is that a three-wheel Vespa? ???

No, it's just happy to see you

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25097
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #993 on: 19 May 2022, 19:23:31 »
I meant the thing in front of the land train...  ::)

ANS Kamas P81

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11558
  • Clan ⑨ From Outer Space
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #994 on: 19 May 2022, 21:13:48 »
Huh.  Looks to be precisely that, actually.  Could be a Piaggio Ape minus its body, it's broadly similar to those.

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25097
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #995 on: 20 May 2022, 03:20:15 »
My daughter thought so too (well, minus the Piaggo Ape part)...  :)

chanman

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Architect of suffering
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #996 on: 20 May 2022, 11:07:43 »
Who loves turret/hull kitbashes?

Prototype Leopard 2 turret on a Leopard 1 hull:


European MBT: Leclerc turret on a Leopard 2 hull:


Vickers Mk. 7/2: Kind of an improved Challenger turret (looks a lot like the Chally 2, but predates it by a few years) on a Leopard 2 hull:


M60-2000: M1A1 turret on an M60 hull:


Cougar AVGP: Scorpion turret on a 1st generation Piranha LAV hull


Australian Fire Support Vehicle: Alvis Saladin armoured car turret on an M113 hull


Australian Medium Recon Vehicle: Scorpion turret on an M113 hull

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25097
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #997 on: 20 May 2022, 17:51:56 »
An M60 hull can even CARRY an M1A1 turret?? ???  :o

Failure16

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 972
  • A Fire in the Distance
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #998 on: 20 May 2022, 17:53:22 »
Other than the recoilless rifle, it's a pretty stock Vespa.

I love this sentence.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth, 
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.
When I needed something good.                                            One day we'll reveal the truth,
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.        That one will die before he gets there.

But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra
--A. Duritz

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25097
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #999 on: 20 May 2022, 17:54:33 »
I owe you a drink for that laugh, good sir! Let me know when you're in the DC area to collect!  :thumbsup:

mvp7

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 440
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1000 on: 20 May 2022, 18:24:33 »
Other than the recoilless rifle, it's a pretty stock Vespa.
I love this sentence.
Yeah, that sentence almost made me spit my coffee when I read it.

chanman

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Architect of suffering
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1001 on: 20 May 2022, 18:32:10 »
An M60 hull can even CARRY an M1A1 turret?? ???  :o

I mean, it was like 4 rounds of up-armouring ago. Just like that Leo 1/2. Not sure how that'd work with the latest Leopard 2A6+ or 2A7 turrets. Structural fatigue might rapidly become a thing...

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25097
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1002 on: 20 May 2022, 18:39:51 »
My point exactly...  :)

CVB

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1464
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1003 on: 20 May 2022, 19:04:53 »
Other than the recoilless rifle, it's a pretty stock Vespa.

Quote
In psychology, compensation is a strategy whereby one covers up, consciously or unconsciously, feelings of inadequacy or incompetence in one life area through the gratification or (drive towards) excellence in another area.



An M60 hull can even CARRY an M1A1 turret?? ???  :o
Maybe with a Lift Hoist?  ;)
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
- David Drake

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but I'm not willing to hang it by the neck until it's dead, dead, dead!

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10444
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1004 on: 20 May 2022, 20:45:59 »
An M60 hull can even CARRY an M1A1 turret?? ???  :o
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60-2000_Main_Battle_Tank
it required an adapter system.. the turret ring is the same size, but the mounting systems differ. but the proposal was one that was meant to be a quick(er) and easy(er) upgrade of the M60's in service with so many US allies. it did require upgrading the suspension system to handle the extra weight, and they tossed some extra armor onto the hull as well.

ended up being less attractive to most buyers than israeli "Sabra" M60 upgrades or a license to build or buy full on M1 tanks.
« Last Edit: 22 May 2022, 20:12:55 by glitterboy2098 »

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25097
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1005 on: 20 May 2022, 20:49:28 »
That makes sense, thanks!  :thumbsup:

Natasha Kerensky

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2709
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1006 on: 22 May 2022, 16:34:22 »
Danish Tuk Tuk with an MG 3.



I have no idea what or where this is.  That may just be a double-barreled t-shirt cannon.


« Last Edit: 22 May 2022, 16:56:19 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

ANS Kamas P81

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11558
  • Clan ⑨ From Outer Space
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1007 on: 22 May 2022, 17:21:34 »
It's Iranian, so I'd imagine it's supposed to be some kind of rocket launcher and a real attempt at a fighting vehicle.

mvp7

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 440
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1008 on: 22 May 2022, 17:32:56 »
Since the AFV thread seems to be getting not so-armored anyway, I dare you to top the WW1 Belgian machine gun dogs:



Here's a short article on the subject: https://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/44563322275/belgian-machine-gun-dogs-at-the-beginning-of-the

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25097
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1009 on: 22 May 2022, 17:41:25 »
How heavy was that thing to require TWO of them? ???

mvp7

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 440
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1010 on: 22 May 2022, 17:54:21 »
How heavy was that thing to require TWO of them? ???
Does an average suburban consumer really need an SUV to drive to work and grocery store? Surely having two dogpowers hauling you carriage is at least twice as impressive as one even if one would do.

I assume it was some weird flex that no-one but the 1910's Belgians really got.

kato

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2314
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1011 on: 22 May 2022, 18:03:00 »
I have no idea what or where this is.  That may just be a double-barreled t-shirt cannon.
(Not just from the sign on the front and the uniforms) that's definitely Iran.

The Iranian Army has a large fleet of quad ATVs like that (the model is supposedly called Bani Hashem BTIC, there's an ad video for them from the producer on Youtube) that they have been using for the last 15 years or so. Most commonly they seem to be used as generic cargo carriers with infantry and/or recce troops, although there's a variant with a Kornet ATGM launcher on the back that seems to be a legit used version. Most - nowadays virtually all - countries do operate comparable ATV fleets for that matter.

It's Iranian, so I'd imagine it's supposed to be some kind of rocket launcher and a real attempt at a fighting vehicle.
At parades these Iranian ATVs are often used in what looks like garage kitbashing, with substantial welded-on parts (like the roof here) and strapping all kinds of weapons onto them - from welding on a frame to mount a tripod with a medium machine gun via welding on a TOW launcher column that probably came from a jeep via swiveling mounts for a SPG-9 to more esoteric stuff like the twin Grad tubes here or a quad Grad tube array either behind (!) the driver or on a similar roof frame. In general these kitbashes seem to be one-offs, only seen at that one parade and never again anywhere else. The parades they're shown at also seem to more often be relatively "local" ones.


In my opinion it's sorta along the same lines as the Luchs recce tank the maintenance company at the base where i was stationed at had. The vehicle was kitbashed with the turret semi-cut open in order to mount a 84mm Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle such that it could be safely fired. Its existence was reasoned with as being used to fire smoke and flare grenades during exercises. It did look sorta cool though, since they furnished it up to look like that 8x8 actually had a turret with a stubby 84mm cannon.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21844
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1012 on: 22 May 2022, 18:04:11 »
How heavy was that thing to require TWO of them? ???

According to the article, the carriages could be up to 200lbs.  And the dogs pulled them over long distances, so two dogs seems reasonable.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Failure16

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 972
  • A Fire in the Distance
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1013 on: 22 May 2022, 18:06:50 »
If that was analogous to an M1910 carriage, the dry rig probably weighed about 80ish kilos: 27+ for the gun and 50 or so for the carriage.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth, 
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.
When I needed something good.                                            One day we'll reveal the truth,
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.        That one will die before he gets there.

But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra
--A. Duritz

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25097
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1014 on: 22 May 2022, 19:18:49 »
Yep, that would be enough for two dogs!

CVB

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1464
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1015 on: 22 May 2022, 19:51:40 »
Quite sure that is a Maxim (see the grips and the rounded cover on the left side), weighing around 25-27kg. Add the weight of cooling water, ammo boxes and paraphernalia like sights, steam hoses, water funnel etc., and F16 has probably nailed it.

At the same time, the German army mounted a single Maxim MG08 on a one-axle  MG cart hooked to one-axle field gun limber drawn by 2 (for infantry support) or 4 (for cavalry units) horses, so two dogs were rather modest. Talk about German overengineering  ;)

(See hook at towbar to attach another pair of horses when operating with cavalry divisions)
« Last Edit: 22 May 2022, 19:53:59 by CVB »
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
- David Drake

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but I'm not willing to hang it by the neck until it's dead, dead, dead!

chanman

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Architect of suffering
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1016 on: 24 May 2022, 02:45:57 »
BILL 2 destroying a Centurion during testing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8ARjuTKdiIk

Sabelkatten

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6278
Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1017 on: 24 May 2022, 05:52:48 »
BILL 2 destroying a Centurion during testing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8ARjuTKdiIk
Apparently a BILL 1. The difference being that BILL 2 has a tandem warhead (and of course general software updates).

Natasha Kerensky

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2709
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Goose

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1168
  • … the Laws on his tail, burning for home …
    • Home of HeavyMetal Pro
Goose
The Ancient Egyptian God of Frustration