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Author Topic: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder  (Read 22153 times)

Daryk

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #570 on: 14 August 2022, 18:36:17 »
I believe there was at least one aircraft (before 0/0 was a thing, of course) that ejected DOWN...

chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #571 on: 14 August 2022, 19:11:07 »
F-107 'Ultra Sabre' ????

How would you not eject into the intakes?

... quickly. It's not like the pilots are manually bailing out or anything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaWoLoP4hI0
More seriously, at the moment of ejection, the pilot and the intake's relative velocity is 0, they're both travelling forward at the same speed. Drag rapidly slows the pilot down, but if anything, the tail is the more difficult obstacle to clear.

I believe there was at least one aircraft (before 0/0 was a thing, of course) that ejected DOWN...
It wasn't unusual, especially for high-speed flight where there were concerns about clearing tall tails or high-mounted horizontal stabilizers (anything with a T-tail). Of course, eventually, it was recognized that ejecting during supersonic flight was much less likely than at low speed on landing and takeoff, so the compromise was changed. Better to be unable to eject at supersonic speeds than unable to eject low and slow...

Also, if something went catastrophically wrong at supersonic speeds, there were decent odds the aerodynamic forces might tear the aircraft apart long before the pilot had a chance to eject.

F-104s had downward ejection seats until later replaced with upwards ejecting ones. For most NATO operators that ended up using them as low-level strike craft instead of high-altitude interceptors, getting that 0/0  (especially the altitude portion) was pretty useful. It seems the limitations of downward seats weren't much different than pre-0/0 upward seats anyway. http://www.ejectionsite.com/

B-52s have two crew decks, so the lower deck crew need to have downward-firing seats by necessity. The B-47's navigator also ejected downwards due to tail clearance issues (the other two crew ejected upwards). The Tu-22 ('Blinder', not Backfire) crew also ejected downwards. Something about the high engine placement.

Speaking which, since we've been doing Century fighters, most of which were interceptors...

Several Tu-22 'Blinder' photos. According to the attribution, the poster's father was a crewman and took these pictures during his time in service on Tu-22s. "I survived 2 tours on Tupolev supersonic death traps and all I got was 3 decent picture" is what I imagine his story about his time in goes...




Early Tu-22M 'Backfire' prototype. Like the Super Hornet decades later, this was more budgetary shenanigans than an effort to confuse adversaries.



Early production Backfires. A big improvement over the 'Blinder' but still infamous for gremlins and being maintenance hogs (something I suspect is true of most variable-geometry designs)



The definitive Tu-22M3 Backfire-C with the wedge shaped intakes and all around sexy beastie



Never has an aircraft had a more appropriate reporting name. Tu-95 'Bear'






The Tu-16 'Badger' is actually concurrent with the Tu-95 'Bear' with overlapping development time



The PLA is a licensed operator (Xian H-6)



Although they've been modernizing them. The H-6K carries ordnance externally only, has a pair of high-ish bypass D30 turbofans, a big ol' radar...




And left out of previous posts, a Polish MiG-23 looking tactically pointy


A big ol' MiG-31 (16 ton internal fuel capacity!?). Actually slightly shorter than a MiG-25

Daryk

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #572 on: 14 August 2022, 19:23:26 »
Is that a... go-kart track? ???

Failure16

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #573 on: 14 August 2022, 19:31:18 »
F-107 'Ultra Sabre' ????

How would you not eject into the intakes?

Very quickly*. Note that it did not enter service. Good technique for avoiding FOD, though. If you don't count the pilot and seat...

*chanman beat me to it. Great minds think alike--or fools seldom differ.

That second Hornet is flying awfully slow there...


Sure is. Helldivers topped out at just under 300 mph and I doubt that one was doing that there.

Hell of an aircraft, the SB2C. Especially for its crews, and very especially for the early models.

Here is one of the few survivors of the type, from the Hellenic Air Force. It used to be at the Athens War Museum, situated outside, with a walkway that would take you up and over the wing alongside the cockpit. This image is probably pre-restoration after its transference to a different facility.



From: https://www.haf.gr/en/history/museum/exhibits/#:~:text=In%20Greece%20the%20first%20Helldivers%20arrived%20as%20part,restored%20to%20its%20current%20state%20since%20November%201997.

When I was small, it being Greece, you could climb in the cockpit. A couple years later that was no longer allowed ;D.

Side note, apropos to nothing: that same museum had some RPG/bazooka style launchers that were stolen by the terrorist group 17 November in the early 80s. Good Greeks leave nothing to waste!



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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #574 on: 14 August 2022, 19:41:28 »
I heard that with the Tu-95, tracking them on radar was unnecessary because NATO crews could hear them coming before they crossed the horizon. ;D
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Failure16

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #575 on: 14 August 2022, 20:08:07 »
Certainly the submariners, I would bet.
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I am Belch II

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #576 on: 14 August 2022, 20:25:21 »
I heard that with the Tu-95, tracking them on radar was unnecessary because NATO crews could hear them coming before they crossed the horizon. ;D

I remember reading that F4 pilots intercept Tu95 Bears and would her the prop noise over their own planes. That is loud.
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chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #577 on: 14 August 2022, 21:07:30 »
That second Hornet is flying awfully slow there...

Hornets love to get slow (draggy airframes) and have excellent control at low-speed and high angles of attack. Something I think the F-35 actually shares (the low-speed control, not the drag)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEPoD_VRABc

Daryk

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #578 on: 14 August 2022, 21:24:26 »
It's almost like they were designed to fly off carriers or something...  ::)

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #579 on: 15 August 2022, 04:27:24 »
Certainly the submariners, I would bet.

The SOSUS net actually could hear them.
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mikecj

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #580 on: 15 August 2022, 08:27:13 »
I believe there was at least one aircraft (before 0/0 was a thing, of course) that ejected DOWN...

Wasn't it the B-52 had 2 crew stations that ejected down?
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Daryk

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chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #582 on: 15 August 2022, 09:36:52 »
Downward ejection seats still beats the British V-bombers where the pilots had ejection seats and the rest of the crew had to execute manual bailouts. Class systems, amirite?

chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #583 on: 16 August 2022, 02:37:16 »
Is that a... go-kart track? ???

Capitalism!  :D

Daryk

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #584 on: 16 August 2022, 02:41:38 »
I'll take that as a YES!  :D

chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #585 on: 16 August 2022, 02:58:37 »
I'll take that as a YES!  :D

I assume it was spruced up for some kind of museum attraction. Here's a shot of the same plane from about 10 years earlier:


The current production H-6K moves to external carriage out of necessity - not going to fit too many missiles that big inside the bay:



Daryk

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #586 on: 16 August 2022, 03:03:10 »
That shot from below really shows how canted the air intake is.

chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #587 on: 16 August 2022, 11:53:19 »
The SR-71 always looks like it's moving at the speed of heat










Palmdale is probably the only place where an SR-71 and an A-12 are displayed together




Giovanni Blasini's neck of the woods: A-12 (the single-seat CIA predecessor to the SR-71) outside the San Diego Air & Space Museum at Balboa Park
« Last Edit: 16 August 2022, 12:06:17 by chanman »

Daryk

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #588 on: 16 August 2022, 12:14:10 »
I've been to the Udvar-Hazy to see the SR-71 there... it's totally worth the trip!  :thumbsup:

dgorsman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #589 on: 16 August 2022, 13:42:24 »
I love part of the backstory of the A-12... the design called for more titanium than was available, so the CIA set up a series of shell companies that proceeded to purchase it from the the only major source of the day: the Soviet Union.
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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #590 on: 16 August 2022, 14:03:09 »
Wait, what.
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chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #591 on: 16 August 2022, 14:06:07 »
The Blackbird family is also rare because like the Shuttle and Concorde, every single surviving aircraft is on display.



Wait, what.

It's from Ben Rich's memoirs, so it might be a tall tale, but it wouldn't be that surprising. Rare commodities are still commodities and hard currency is hard currency.

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chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #593 on: 16 August 2022, 14:45:31 »
German F-4Fs. I always got a laugh out of the ICE upgrade. AMRAAMs and then-modern radars, but same smoky J79s. The F-4Fs apparently were lighter and more maneuverable than other Phantoms and had leading edge slats, but at the cost of Sparrow capability. Ironic that given the inclement weather of Northern Europe, the Luftwaffe lacked all-weather/BVR capability pretty much until the end of the Cold War (their F-104s also did not have all-weather capability, unlike the Italian ones).












Slats out


Daryk

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #594 on: 16 August 2022, 15:17:05 »
Nice looking Phantoms!  8)

Sabelkatten

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #595 on: 16 August 2022, 15:53:23 »
Regarding titanium, IIRC Russia is still the world leader in both production and fabrication.

Colt Ward

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #596 on: 16 August 2022, 16:07:43 »
I think South Africa is really the other significant force.
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chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #597 on: 16 August 2022, 21:58:33 »
More photo-recon!

J-8 variant that replaces the gun with a camera pod


RF-84


RF-8 Crusader






MiG-25R






RA-5C Vigilante






RF-101




So many Phantoms


















Cannonshop

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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #598 on: 16 August 2022, 22:54:44 »
I always wonder just how far you could push the F-4's airframe using modern systems like engines, avionics and so on.

for example, is there a more efficient alternative to the J-79 that will fit in roughly the same sized engine bay?  obviously it wouldn't be competitive against fighters in F-22's generation, but how crazy could you get it using tech developed FOR fighters two generations better?

In a way, it's kind of like wondering what would've happened if F-16XL had actually gone into series production.  What would they look like performance wise with another 30 years of improvements?
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Re: Aviation Pictures: Sixth time, Thread of the Intruder
« Reply #599 on: 16 August 2022, 23:22:08 »
I always wonder just how far you could push the F-4's airframe using modern systems like engines, avionics and so on.

for example, is there a more efficient alternative to the J-79 that will fit in roughly the same sized engine bay?  obviously it wouldn't be competitive against fighters in F-22's generation, but how crazy could you get it using tech developed FOR fighters two generations better?

In a way, it's kind of like wondering what would've happened if F-16XL had actually gone into series production.  What would they look like performance wise with another 30 years of improvements?

The Israelis did a nice F-4 Kurnass set up. New avionics and such I always thought a re engined F-4 would be neat to see. Drop in a pair of F-101's in place of the smoky J79's. New Avionics and FBW systems the Phantom might still be a beast and be fuel efficient.
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