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Author Topic: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky  (Read 27269 times)

Daryk

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #360 on: 15 August 2022, 16:46:50 »
That makes sense... rail was the key technology of that war...

Failure16

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #361 on: 15 August 2022, 18:58:14 »
Yes, but it was tactics and morale vice specifically technology that decided that fight.

Of course, the IJN's loss at Tsushima means that they won't have a death wish for Decisive Battle that doomed them thirty-five years later. Or, at least, they won't be in a position to make anything of the fact that Decisive Battle worked (just against them). So, the Pacific in the 30s is now back to being wide open.

Should be interesting to see how the Great War plays out. Let's hope Turtledove doesn't get to be the Levia-Verse Stackpole.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth, 
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #362 on: 15 August 2022, 19:08:02 »
The IJN attacked and conquered Chile.  In decisive battle.
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Failure16

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #363 on: 15 August 2022, 19:16:49 »
So, simply because ships can fly they can make a country with no inclination towards a focus on logistics or a significant merchant marine able to conduct a cross-Pacific invasion?

Interesting.

In the suspension-of-disbelief manner of the term...but I guess if and when I back the game, I'll be able to learn the gritty details to make a more informed decision.


And no, this is not bringing the 30's and 40's into it. The aforementioned problems manifested themselves in the early/mid 40s, but their foundation stretched way earlier than that. It is/was not something that would have changed in a few years because the problems were endemic and part of a national mind-set/ethos.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth, 
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.
When I needed something good.                                            One day we'll reveal the truth,
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.        That one will die before he gets there.

But I'd think of something better if I could
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Colt Ward

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #364 on: 15 August 2022, 19:43:17 »
Going after Chile was to get a quicker return on investment than going into SE Asia, they were not needing to build up the infrastructure to get at and remove the natural resources they wanted.  The drive to Chile was to get the electroid rather than oil & steel that were their moves into SE Asia.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #365 on: 15 August 2022, 19:54:22 »
i would imagine that after such a humiliating defeat, japan would have become very zealous converts to the idea of a Leviathan navy. probably by buying british ships at first, like they did in IRL.

as far as cross pacific campaigns.. well leviathans likely do move faster than wet navy ships so logisitics can be reduced a little. and i could see them investing in flying logistics ships and other transports. a lift system able to put a cruiser into the sky should be able to lift a cruiser sized cargo ship. island hop, setting up resupply bases along the way, letting the bulk of your fleet do a cross ocean dash.

also i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't still for after SE asia. they'd be the only major Leviathans navy in the region, and a Lev gives you major advantage in a ground war for being both hard to kill and the ultimate high ground. (i honestly expect that The Great War is not bogged down in trench warfare like IRL. after all the easiest way to deal with a trench line with MG nests is to fly a lighter Leviathan overhead and shell the positions. so maneuver warfare is likely to be more involved than IRL. which means we might not see tanks.. but armored cars would play a bigger tactical and strategic role.)

Colt Ward

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #366 on: 15 August 2022, 20:33:57 »
The Great War opens up with second class Leviathans from Germany, France, and England in their colonies- they have not been stripped yet as part of the Treaty of Versailles.  Each of the European powers also have their Open Door Policy/Sphere of Influence cities in China- who also has their own Leviathan program, though the fiction did not have many details.

When the Great War kicks off, the SML Emden starts raiding the French/Austrian(not present)/Russian/American ships in the South China Sea and over into the Indian Ocean.  Dutch Leviathans enforce their neutrality, the Emden steers clear of Chinese territory to avoid intern.

Basically . . .
Belligerents
France-  French Indochina, Shanghai, Hankou (now Wuhan!), Guangzhou (Canton)
Germany-  Qingdao (Tsingtao)
British-  Hong Kong
US-  Phillipines

Neutrals
Portugal-  Macau (going back to 1552/3!), E Timor
Netherlands-  Dutch East Indies



Shanghai is weird, it is also a Treaty Port so the US, Brits, and France.  Tianjin is the same way with Germans, Russians, French, Italians, Belgians, Austria/Hungary, and later Japan.


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Daryk

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #367 on: 15 August 2022, 20:42:31 »
Are those real maps or game maps? ???

Failure16

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #368 on: 15 August 2022, 20:49:53 »
i would imagine that after such a humiliating defeat, japan would have become very zealous converts to the idea of a Leviathan navy. probably by buying british ships at first, like they did in IRL.

No doubt on that score.

as far as cross pacific campaigns.. well leviathans likely do move faster than wet navy ships so logisitics can be reduced a little. and i could see them investing in flying logistics ships and other transports. a lift system able to put a cruiser into the sky should be able to lift a cruiser sized cargo ship. island hop, setting up resupply bases along the way, letting the bulk of your fleet do a cross ocean dash.

Logistics don't just involve shells for guns and fuel for engines. It involves transporting and then supplying the invasion force that is the raison d'etre for the enterprise. And it is something that shaped--even defined--Japanese ambitions within its nascent empire as it was something they actively ignored.

Alternate histories thrive or fall based on their underlying assumptions. But changing the fabric of a historical character or group prior to the point of diversion (and not later, as a result of the diversion) cheapens the exercise.

also i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't still for after SE asia. they'd be the only major Leviathans navy in the region, and a Lev gives you major advantage in a ground war for being both hard to kill and the ultimate high ground. (i honestly expect that The Great War is not bogged down in trench warfare like IRL. after all the easiest way to deal with a trench line with MG nests is to fly a lighter Leviathan overhead and shell the positions. so maneuver warfare is likely to be more involved than IRL. which means we might not see tanks.. but armored cars would play a bigger tactical and strategic role.)

That's just the thing: the IJN won't be the biggest force in Asia if they lose at Tsushima in 1905. Okay, shouldn't be. They went to war because Russia, particularly its navy, was a direct threat to their plans in mainland Asia. The only reason the IJN was able to challenge the IJA politically was because they won such a resounding victory against a larger foe. And then they started planning for war against the USA, which wouldn't happen with such a loss--well, I guess a foothold in South America is going to require a response per the Monroe Doctrine (the Falklands notwithstanding, natch).

Going after Chile was to get a quicker return on investment than going into SE Asia, they were not needing to build up the infrastructure to get at and remove the natural resources they wanted.  The drive to Chile was to get the electroid rather than oil & steel that were their moves into SE Asia.

I don't question the motives, but the changes to the setting before the point of diversion. But, it's all academic. At the end of the day, it's a conceit to get flying battleships on a map, right?
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth, 
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.
When I needed something good.                                            One day we'll reveal the truth,
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.        That one will die before he gets there.

But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra
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Failure16

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #369 on: 15 August 2022, 20:54:52 »
People have done the math, and the Commander level gets you the most bang for your buck.

Cheers!

Thanks for the quick and succinct reply. I rather thought that would be the case.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth, 
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.
When I needed something good.                                            One day we'll reveal the truth,
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.        That one will die before he gets there.

But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra
--A. Duritz

Colt Ward

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #370 on: 15 August 2022, 20:58:10 »
Are those real maps or game maps? ???

Real maps, afaik no Leviathans map was released.  I shared them because it was what I could find involving the spheres of influence for each of the European powers plus Japan & the US.
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Daryk

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #371 on: 15 August 2022, 21:06:12 »
Thanks!

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #372 on: 16 August 2022, 01:07:42 »
Fun fact: The Japanese didn't lose Tsushima in 1905 in this timeline, they lost it in 1896. Near as I can tell, the European emphasis on Leviathan construction left naval yards available to build the Japanese ships much earlier than in our timeline.
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Daryk

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #373 on: 16 August 2022, 01:13:16 »
Nine years is a long time with that much technological development going on...  :o

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #374 on: 16 August 2022, 08:12:49 »
The blog on Monstersinthesky has a lot of lore that helps describe how the world is progressing, and different from our own.
This post is particularly useful:

https://monstersinthesky.com/index.php/2022/03/31/from-rychnowski-to-ferdinand/
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Jim1701

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #375 on: 16 August 2022, 08:17:31 »
In the downloads section of monstersinthesky.com there is also the Gazetteer.  In the second part at the end is a global overview of sorts with a world map on the last page.

Daryk

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #376 on: 16 August 2022, 08:32:51 »
Thanks for the tips!  :thumbsup:

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #377 on: 16 August 2022, 08:41:51 »
Are those real maps or game maps? ???

Game maps do not have Taiwan as part of Japan.
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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #378 on: 16 August 2022, 08:50:29 »
Also, I cannot recommend the Armored Skies anthology enough. Huge amounts of lore and world building, and damned good stories to boot.
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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #379 on: 16 August 2022, 09:08:00 »
Also, I cannot recommend the Armored Skies anthology enough. Huge amounts of lore and world building, and damned good stories to boot.

Yup, which after reading is why I said they were all coal fired, because you get a story from the Brits, US, French, Germans, Russian, and Japs- all using coal and worried about coaling for range/performance.
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Jim1701

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #380 on: 16 August 2022, 09:27:06 »
Game maps do not have Taiwan as part of Japan.

The old print version doesn't but since China is not involved in production this time around they can't hold history hostage.  The current map has Taiwan as a Japanese holding.

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #381 on: 16 August 2022, 09:30:30 »
What do folks think about the French & German destroyer additions?  The Italian BC card?
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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #382 on: 16 August 2022, 09:33:46 »
They posted a battlecruiser? All I've seen for the Italians is the destroyer Andromeda.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #383 on: 16 August 2022, 09:38:32 »
The Italian update for today had to be punished to tomorrow. However it will include the first Battle cruiser card seen here so there will be lots of awesome with it. Here is an Italian destroyer to hold you over tell them.



Says battle cruiser . . . but the paragraph has two typos so . . .
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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #384 on: 16 August 2022, 09:40:11 »
The old print version doesn't but since China is not involved in production this time around they can't hold history hostage.  The current map has Taiwan as a Japanese holding.
Yeah, the print version of the Gazetteer from the OG boxed set has Taiwan as Chinese. The pdf version found online has Taiwan as Japanese.

They posted a battlecruiser? All I've seen for the Italians is the destroyer Andromeda.
No the rest of the Italian previews were "punished to today". But there's also the old RM Cassiopea. Hopefully that one comes along this time cause it was a pint-sized Italian version of the Pontbriand, a real gunship
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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #385 on: 16 August 2022, 09:52:06 »
What I really want to see are the rules for the new torpedo types.  I'm curious how an AoE torpedo will work and  if the German "volley" means one launcher can fire multiple torpedoes at a time. 

Do want to see that Italian Battlecruiser too.  I'm a little disappointed in the Andromeda though.  That thing is armored with tinfoil and miss slots are only useful against fire at will single guns.  All those miss slots means I only need to destroy 4 slots with bracket fire to destroy a location.

Italians look cool but we'll have to see how well they work in a fight.  At least it has plenty of crews to attempt repairs.  It's going to need them.

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #386 on: 16 August 2022, 09:58:13 »
They said Italy's hat was "fast but fragile."
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Daryk

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #387 on: 16 August 2022, 10:04:05 »
Hat? ???

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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #388 on: 16 August 2022, 10:05:40 »
Hat? ???
Hat in this context means, basically, their "trope" as Levs' glass cannon faction.

And yeah, Italians live by "I have to kill fast and bullets too slow".
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Re: Leviathans board game, aka Monsters in the sky
« Reply #389 on: 16 August 2022, 10:19:29 »
I know we were talking about the political divisions on Leviathan's SE Asia . . . but I think Switzerland being split up between the 4 powers- and the Brits signing off on it w/o any grant of their own?- makes Europe interesting.  It means there will be no neutral neighbor to Germany & France . . . no Swiss bank accounts or deposit boxes . . . and opens up some ferocious mountain fighting as France tries to hold their electroid mines in the face of Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Italy having the other three-quarters of present Switzerland as a springboard.  Looking at Operation Hannibal, I think we get a Swiss Alp campaign which is going to be interesting . . . lol, especially since we have recorded weather for those days/weeks/months!

IRL the Ottoman Empire was part of the Central Powers . . . but they just fought a war with Italy a few years previously though it was one of their breakaway states that struck the spark.  Do they join the Central Powers again to end up fighting Serbians and Russia?

Also, what we have so far in fiction is the British are neutral- have they finally joined the Allied Powers?
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