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Author Topic: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!  (Read 22197 times)

Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #420 on: 24 June 2022, 02:53:51 »
Which is precisely why the infantry is infinitely better: You get your own bunk, guaranteed.

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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #421 on: 24 June 2022, 10:54:47 »
The wreck of the WWII destroyer escort, USS Samuel B Roberts has been found, its considered to be the deepest wrecked found.  4.2 miles / 22k feet underwater.

Posted on Reddit, originally on BBC (where I found it here.)

A private venture lead by a Texan billionaire named Victor Vescovo, who funded the expedition.  They discovered the "Sammy B" battered, but largely intact.


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Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #422 on: 24 June 2022, 11:36:03 »
Turret door open . . . did it pop or was it as someone was trying to get out.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #423 on: 24 June 2022, 15:02:37 »
Might have been blown off.  The Chōkai shot her in the aft turret, causing a breech explosion and it looks like there's damage on the other side of that turret.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #424 on: 24 June 2022, 16:18:31 »
Thanks for the attachments Wrangler!  Still unable to see the pics in the post...

nerd

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #425 on: 24 June 2022, 18:08:42 »
Turret door open . . . did it pop or was it as someone was trying to get out.
She sank fairly slowly, so it may have been opened by the crew as the left her.
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Failure16

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #426 on: 24 June 2022, 20:30:38 »
A third class ride is always better than a first class walk.

Which certain folks on certain ships in certain places at certain times probably vehemently disagreed with.

Such as the survivors aboard the Sammy B.* from about 0730 on, starting from 25 October until they were rescued over two days later.


*Not in any way to make light of that ship which was crewed by heroes in a destroyer screen and task force that was full of them. I am glad that the ship was found, and have a special reverence for them and their fellows in all navies in the dual-crucible of the wars in the Atlantic and Pacific.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth, 
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.
When I needed something good.                                            One day we'll reveal the truth,
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.        That one will die before he gets there.

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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #427 on: 24 June 2022, 21:57:57 »
And you know, the last survivor of that ship only died a few months ago.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Failure16

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #428 on: 25 June 2022, 00:37:36 »
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth, 
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.
When I needed something good.                                            One day we'll reveal the truth,
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.        That one will die before he gets there.

But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra
--A. Duritz

mikecj

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #429 on: 25 June 2022, 12:20:11 »
Poorly phrased.  Will rewrite & repost.
« Last Edit: 25 June 2022, 12:21:48 by mikecj »
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wantec

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #430 on: 26 June 2022, 15:22:42 »
Fun fact, the Japanese commander in the battle where the USS Samuel B Roberts was sunk was Admiral Takeo Kurita
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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #431 on: 26 June 2022, 16:10:38 »
That's a perfect fact for this thread!  :thumbsup:

Failure16

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #432 on: 05 July 2022, 00:32:25 »
Turret door open . . . did it pop or was it as someone was trying to get out.

Anyone who wants to know about this particular battle--that of Taffy 3 versus the Goliath--should go out directly and procure James D. Hornfischer's Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors (Bantam Books, 2004).

As far as the door on that aft ("52") turret: it was opened, partially because an earlier hit from a heavy cruiser (widely reputed to be Chōkai, as MLO4H noted earlier) had cut much of the ship's power. Amongst myriad other things, that meant the gas ejection system for the turret's 5" gun failed, leading to a build-up of gases that normally would have been vented. Eventually, that build-up led to a breech-explosion (after seven or eight more rounds after the event) which killed nearly everyone in the turret--crewed by the best team on the ship, and amongst the best in the fleet according to the ship's captain, LCDR Copeland, and led by a certain Paul Carr. They had gotten 324 rounds of the 325 available to them, in 35 minutes (the forward turret, 51, got off something like 278 [note, that is a vaguely remembered guess on my part].

Now, standing half in that door was an enlisted rating, Sam Blue, who was blown off the ship along with another man (named Stovall, who got to inhale a cloud of superheated gas and flame), when the round detonated in the breech. He landed in the water unconscious, but the impact triggered his vest's inflation device. Some time later, as the ship was on its way out, the turret was checked. The last round was in gun-captain Carr's hands, he himself having been ripped open from neck to groin. He pleaded to have his would-be rescuer help him load the round, only to have it taken away from him and being forced to lay down. When his rescuer helped another man (named Gregory) and returned, he found Carr was back up, holding the round and trying to load it again.

He died on the deck of his ship, outside that turret. The ship went down shortly thereafter, stern first. Carr was awarded a Silver Star and a FFG eventually bore his name. But inside that turret are the remains of several men who were amongst the best in their field, and who died doing the only thing they knew how and what to do--what had to be done.

Sources: Last Stand..., Hornfischer (pp. 295-6, 332) and https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/uss-samuel-b-roberts-destroyer.html?edg-c=1


I write this because, especially for Americans on this day, it is well to remember that worn, sometimes trite, often overused, truism that freedom is never free.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth, 
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.
When I needed something good.                                            One day we'll reveal the truth,
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.        That one will die before he gets there.

But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra
--A. Duritz

DOC_Agren

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #433 on: 16 July 2022, 13:55:23 »
USS Constitution, Charlestown Navy Yard 1901
Apparently, it was set up as barracks before it was restored
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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #434 on: 16 July 2022, 14:11:02 »
Possibly... could have been office space too...

CVB

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #435 on: 16 July 2022, 15:02:09 »
According to the USS Constitution Museum website she was a receiving ship 1882-1897 at Portsmouth Naval Shipyard , and "on exhibition" at Charlestown Navy Yard 1897-1906.
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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #436 on: 16 July 2022, 15:51:00 »
Another one bites the dust, ex-USS Rodney M. Davis (FFG 60) sunk as target July 12th, 2022.

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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #437 on: 16 July 2022, 16:05:42 »
Just as we're realizing we need FFGs after all...  ::)

glitterboy2098

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #438 on: 16 July 2022, 16:14:31 »
Just as we're realizing we need FFGs after all...  ::)
[sarcasm]well we've got those corvette sized LCS ships, so we don't need FFG's after all.[/sarcasm]

Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #439 on: 16 July 2022, 16:19:14 »
Well, the Navy figured out they're too small, but hasn't quite convinced Congress yet...

Failure16

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #440 on: 16 July 2022, 16:37:17 »
What's the deal with the Constellation-Class, then?
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth, 
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.
When I needed something good.                                            One day we'll reveal the truth,
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.        That one will die before he gets there.

But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra
--A. Duritz

Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #441 on: 16 July 2022, 16:42:48 »
That's being developed, but Congress is slowing down the decommissioning of the LCSs.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #442 on: 16 July 2022, 16:56:02 »
Well, the Navy figured out they're too small, but hasn't quite convinced Congress yet...

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I am Belch II

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #443 on: 16 July 2022, 17:59:18 »
Well, the Navy figured out they're too small, but hasn't quite convinced Congress yet...

Outside of being fast...the ships were barley armed. A 57mm gun, a couple of cannons, and a RAM CIWS missiles. Only later they got some NSM Anti Ship missiles on some of the ships.  Half a billion dollars for each ship that is what you got.
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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #444 on: 16 July 2022, 19:40:22 »
Outside of being fast...the ships were barley armed. A 57mm gun, a couple of cannons, and a RAM CIWS missiles. Only later they got some NSM Anti Ship missiles on some of the ships.  Half a billion dollars for each ship that is what you got.
Issue is that the 57mm is seen by the US Navy as best gun for their buck.  Frankly, i see it as high-power machine gun with little range and some issues with punch.
I'm not gunner's mate.  I can't tell you that my opinion is bull-crap.  I think the 5 & 3 inchers still have their value, their not over kill.  The Italians use their 3 inch Metos as CIWS against missiles, as do the French are able to do with their 100mm guns.  While missiles nowadays have far more punch than 5 inchers do but former to me, missiles cost is wee bit too high now.

Destroyer, ITS Durand de la Penne


I don't really count the Horizon Class ships as actual Destroyers, they were designed by the French as Frigates originally, though they're listed as Destroyers in the Italian service.. 

Both Classes have 3 inch guns as CIWS
« Last Edit: 16 July 2022, 19:42:33 by Wrangler »
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"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
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"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #445 on: 16 July 2022, 19:49:13 »
76mm seems a bit of overkill for CIWS to me...

Garrand

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #446 on: 16 July 2022, 20:49:45 »
76mm seems a bit of overkill for CIWS to me...

If someone is tossing anti-ship missiles at you, a 76mm CIWS works just as well. Plus you can go out & shoot at lots of other things too.

From what I understand, the 57mm was selected due to the flexibility the cannon offers, from punching holes in hulls to ammo that detonates above the target to disable, etc. Lots of different smart-shells, with an enhanced ability against small craft. The sort of thing you want in a littoral combat ship, where your enemy are not going to be destroyers, but small craft armed with lightweight anti-material missiles, small caliber cannons, machine guns, etc.

But the LCS suffered from mission creep, & stopped being a light craft dedicated to small naval warfare, to something that can take the place of a frigate AND do the littoral combat stuff too. A smaller, cheaper hull with a similar armament package probably would have been more useful -- and successful.

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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #447 on: 16 July 2022, 20:51:43 »
The most important thing size gets you is endurance.  If the LCSs could have done what the FFGs did, we wouldn't have been using DDGs to do those things.

Failure16

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #448 on: 16 July 2022, 23:27:51 »
Here is a more in-depth exposition of what Wrangler posted. There is a short video near the end, which is shot almost as if it's a recruitment video of sorts. Which is amusing, to me at least.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/watch-missiles-clobber-a-mothballed-u-s-navy-frigate-during-rimpac/ar-AAZEFNr?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=02cafaf35bb0444180c66ad057982398
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth, 
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.
When I needed something good.                                            One day we'll reveal the truth,
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.        That one will die before he gets there.

But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra
--A. Duritz

chanman

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Re: Naval Pictures IX - General Quarters, Battlestations!
« Reply #449 on: 17 July 2022, 01:43:20 »
Outside of being fast...the ships were barley armed. A 57mm gun, a couple of cannons, and a RAM CIWS missiles. Only later they got some NSM Anti Ship missiles on some of the ships.  Half a billion dollars for each ship that is what you got.

Eh, the weapons aren't even close to being the biggest problem. The flawed design concept is the problem. Both LCS designs give up too much to go fast (and carry helos, because starting from the 80s or so, it seemed like every ship needed organic aviation capability).

Unreliable running gear, small crews (both of which work against readiness), expensive operating costs are all far more important. LCS cost somewhere between $50-70 million a year to operate. A Burke costs $80 million/year. Half a billion dollars? That's operations every 7-10 years.

There's a reason why no one wanted the Spruances, even for free, when they were retired. It's unlikely anyone will be interested in purchasing the LCS unless they have a burning need for a giant unreliable, and expensive go-fast boat.

 

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