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Author Topic: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love  (Read 53741 times)

marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1260 on: 22 September 2021, 14:21:25 »
The IJN used them as part of the battle line and they did well one was heavily damaged by 10-inch gunfire but she survived and fought in the whole battle.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1261 on: 22 September 2021, 14:50:46 »
Well, surviving a shot and not sinking is a plus but accurate gunnery is also nice.
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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1262 on: 22 September 2021, 18:54:14 »
Italians have come a long way since i was in the service.  Hell, if my bridge was like this thing I'd properly be happier guy in that one.


This is the cockpit of their navy's Thaon di Revel Class Patrol Ship

This is the exterior of this patrol ship / corvette.  Pictures are from Reddit posts.
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Rainbow 6

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1263 on: 26 September 2021, 06:29:27 »
Construction started on the Royal Navy's first Type 31 Frigate, HMS Venture, this week.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/steel-cut-on-first-type-31-frigate-hms-venturer-at-rosyth/

truetanker

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1264 on: 26 September 2021, 12:05:49 »
I've always wonder if Seaview and Seaquest could really happen IRL...

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Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1265 on: 26 September 2021, 17:07:35 »


Battleship USS Massachusetts BB-59 and Task Force 38 push deeper in the Pacific toward Japan in September 1944.

TG 38.3 escorted carriers that made a series of strikes in late August and early September in preparation of the landings at Morotai and Peleliu. These included strikes on 9 and 10 September on the island of Mindanao in the Philippines to neutralize Japanese-held airfields that could interfere with the landings.

From 12 to 14 September, the fleet moved to strike targets in the Visayas. BIG MAMIE escorted the carriers for further strikes on Luzon, particularly around the capital at Manila, and the Visayas from 21 to 22 September. The month-long campaign destroyed some 1,000 Japanese aircraft and sank or otherwise neutralized 150 ships.
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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1266 on: 26 September 2021, 19:21:48 »
Man, I'm not used seeing her so low in the water.  Look at freeboard at mid ships.  It must be like 10 feet from the water's surface.

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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1267 on: 26 September 2021, 22:06:25 »
Something completely different, Swedish Warship Mars, as she lays at the bottom of the Baltic Sea after explosion sunk her 500 years ago.

"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1268 on: 26 September 2021, 22:13:02 »
Must be a very low-oxygen region for the hull to be so intact.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1269 on: 26 September 2021, 22:55:27 »
Must be a very low-oxygen region for the hull to be so intact.
the Baltic is infamous for that. the bottom layers are practically oxygen free. a side effect of the cold climate and the geography of the area limiting the strength of currents.

truetanker

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1270 on: 27 September 2021, 07:46:22 »
Let's see...

If we patch her here, support that there... Yep!

Gentlemen, I believe we can refloat her! But the budget.... I can only donate so much blood a month... :(

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Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
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Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1271 on: 27 September 2021, 09:37:14 »
 . . .so did the explosion take off the bow, and all that kindling bits from the starboard side impacting with the sea floor?

Or am I thinking too much of a Hollywood explosion, and instead whatever happened just punch a small hole and blow out the seams?  Because it looks like we can see the stern half of the ship and port side.
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Weirdo

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1272 on: 27 September 2021, 12:10:15 »
If it was a powder explosion, then my understanding is that is very much like a Battletech ammo boom: a ship of the line transforms rapidly and violently into a large collection of toothpicks.

To have that large chunk of hull and concentrated debris, my guess is that it wasn't the main powder storage that went up, but the localized ready powder for one or more of the forward guns. That would certainly have taken the bow off without shredding the rest of the ship, allowing it to sink and crunch as we see here.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1273 on: 27 September 2021, 14:10:15 »
Yeah, the only black powder explosions I have seen were demo explosions, and there you go for display.

But everything I ever read about handling black powder and what happens when that fails made Hollywood seem legit- except for maybe speed of burn.

So yeah, there would be a chance a powder monkey's load got caught that could have burst the seams.  Any sort of discharge inside that was uncontrolled could have caused uncontrollable flooding without Hollywood pyrotechnics.
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truetanker

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1274 on: 27 September 2021, 16:23:54 »
Rough handlings of the powder keg could spill loose grains around and a smouldering wick could have touched off the spilt and that lead to a fire that spread...

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glitterboy2098

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1275 on: 27 September 2021, 18:28:41 »
or it could have been on of its guns that exploded. the guns of that period were prone to that sort of thing, especially the naval guns where the drive to save weight made the guns more vulnerable, and the salt water conditions and difficulty of proper cleaning made the guns more prone to rust and failure.

this is reconstruction of a higher end weapon from the period:

yes that is a breechloader. those were actually quite common, especially on naval guns. given the realtively weak powder charges the guns could handle, the removable breach approach was viable (if not ideal as the seals sucked) and allowed decent rate of fire via use of multiple breech assemblies.

on a merchant ship, the guns would likely have been made of forged iron rather than the expensive cast iron. little more than a bundle of iron rods with a hole down the middle, surrounded by lots of iron bands to hold them together. (a method that was the state of the art a century earlier.) naval guns often skimped on the barrel reinforcement and were made of fairly low quality iron, which made the rust problems worse (since there are many more weak spots and potential flaws in the construction). these guns were usually muzzle loading with quite slow RoF, and were prone to be accidentally overcharged with powder or warping enough after repeated firing for the shot to end up plugging the barrel. a gun team doing practice firing could easily have had a nasty accident and sent the whole ship down. especially if they had been lax about storage of powder near the gun.

Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1276 on: 27 September 2021, 18:42:25 »
I had no idea breech loaders were that early!  :o

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1277 on: 27 September 2021, 19:30:39 »
Didn't depend on whom was making those cannons? Some where more advanced than others.
I was peering into it, i could sworn i saw a cannon in that debris just above where intact part hull was.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1278 on: 27 September 2021, 19:54:39 »
I had no idea breech loaders were that early!  :o
breech loaders were very early. they had a bad habit of backfiring dangerously if the breech wasn't secured properly, and the most effective method was basically to slot it into a groove in the solid frame (which you can see in that example) and then wedge the breech block in place. which slowed down firing some.
and they limited the powder charge, and by extension, the weight of shot the cannon could fire. so they were only really used for the lightest guns, and came in and out of fashion. most guns were muzzle loaders, especially the heavier naval guns. (the best of which were cast bronze (on the smaller guns) or cast iron (the big ones.) note that the era had tons of names for cannon depending on the size of shot, size of the barrel, length of the barrel, etc.

Drachenifel has a great video talking about the evolution of naval guns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loldlSJ4k_8

marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1279 on: 28 September 2021, 01:40:32 »
Yeah explosions aboard ships of that era or later (going up to Nelsonian era) were pretty much always cataclysmic for the ship and all aboard. The Dutch ship Eendracht exploded in the Battle of Lowestoft, killing all aboard



that's the French ship of the line L'Orient going up at the Battle of the Nile and during the Armada campaign, one of the Spanish ships suffered a magazine explosion although oddly enough she survived. Probably due to the powder being stowed not in the middle of the ship but in her sterncastle and above the waterline, and due to the probably weaker nature of the powder of the time. The hull of the ship channeled the blast up through the lightly built sterncastles and blew that up, and with the blast going up rather than out she stayed afloat but was beyond crippled and abandoned by the armada. She was then found and captured, towed into a british port and the powder supply in her forecastle was sent out to the British fleet.
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1280 on: 28 September 2021, 03:54:10 »
According to the Swedish wiki page Mars exploded after being siezed by Lybeck borderers. It seems quite likely the explosion was intentional as she wasn't burning or fighting at the time.

Might have been some fanatics setting off a couple of barrels that had been rigged for this. A very throughout scuttling in effect.

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1281 on: 28 September 2021, 06:26:10 »
The hull of the ship channeled the blast up through the lightly built sterncastles and blew that up, and with the blast going up rather than out she stayed afloat but was beyond crippled and abandoned by the armada.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1282 on: 28 September 2021, 08:00:15 »
Considering what those ships were made of, "cellular" has whole new meaning!

marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1283 on: 28 September 2021, 09:24:26 »
Thing is, galleons were absurdly tough, their ribs were about 4 feet thick and very very closely spaced and then you've got the wood of their hulls layered atop this. The ribs of their hulls made them tough but also very inflexible so in bad weather, where a longer and more lightly built but flexible ship would bend slightly with the waves. A Galleon wouldn't, and instead you risked them cracking and developing leaks and prone to slamming into waves rather than rolling with them.
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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1284 on: 15 October 2021, 12:22:58 »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FDZ4Q6op98&ab_channel=RinachelaFransisca

This is from that The Great War of Archimedes movie
apparently the yelling of the AA gun crews was accurate, as the two gunners would be telling one another when they'd be turning, what speed etc and elevation. The chap with the stripey stick was directing them at targets as he'd basically be their fire control/spotting, whilst the loaders would be yelling out when a magazine was empty and when it was loaded etc.
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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VIII: From Japan with love
« Reply #1285 on: 15 October 2021, 18:05:37 »
Wow!  :o