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Author Topic: A trio of Ultra Protos  (Read 9832 times)

ANS Kamas P81

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A trio of Ultra Protos
« on: 08 August 2011, 01:56:00 »
Either I'm missing something or someone wasn't considering potential abuse of the Ultra Proto rules...

Quote
Weight: 15000kg
Structure: 1500kg
Engine: 90, 3000kg
  Walk: 4
  Run: 6
  Jump: 0
Armor/IS: 47, 2750kg
  Head: 6
  Torso 16
  Arms: 6
  Legs: 14
  Main Gun: 5
Cockpit 750kg
ER Large Laser, 4000kg
Heat Sinks (12), 3000kg

Weight: 15000kg
Structure: 1500kg
Engine: 75, 2000kg
  Walk: 3
  Run: 5
  Jump: 0
Armor/IS: 45, 2250kg
  Head: 5
  Torso 15
  Arms: 6
  Legs: 14
  Main Gun: 5
Cockpit 750kg
Large Pulse Laser, 6000kg
Heat Sinks (10), 2500kg

Weight: 15000kg
Structure: 1500kg
Engine: 45, 1000kg
  Walk: 2
  Run: 3
  Jump: 0
Armor/IS: 40, 2000kg
  Head: 5
  Torso 15
  Arms: 5
  Legs: 10
  Main Gun: 5
Cockpit 750kg
ER PPC, 6000kg
Heat Sinks (15), 3750kg
guess I'll call then Chernobogs for now, keeping the theme.  Um.

...yeah I got nothing.  Check please...
« Last Edit: 08 August 2011, 01:59:08 by ANS Kamas P81 »
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #1 on: 08 August 2011, 02:35:25 »
One more that was Youngblood's idea, sorta.
Quote
Weight: 15000kg
Structure: 1500kg
Engine: 90, 3000kg
  Walk: 4
  Run: 6
  Jump: 0
Armor/IS: 40, 2000kg
  Head: 6
  Torso 16
  Arms: 6
  Legs: 12
Cockpit 750kg
RA: Improved Heavy Medium Laser, 1000kg
LA: Improved Heavy Medium Laser, 1000kg
Torso: Fusillade, 1500kg
Torso: Fusillade, 1500kg
Heat Sinks (14), 3500kg
Making it worse...
« Last Edit: 08 August 2011, 02:50:26 by ANS Kamas P81 »
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Snake Eyes

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #2 on: 08 August 2011, 13:26:28 »
Wow, those are nasty machines........nice job

Decoy

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #3 on: 08 August 2011, 13:31:22 »
*shrugs* How do they deal with a 15 ton ultra light that has a pair of plasma cannons?

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #4 on: 08 August 2011, 13:42:09 »
Calling in artillery fire.
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Siden Pryde

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #5 on: 08 August 2011, 14:17:35 »
Your first design lists 47 points of armour at 2750kg.  Protomech armour is 50kg a point, not 58.5, unless there is some extra rule for these new Protos that I am missing.

Otherwise, they look good. 

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #6 on: 08 August 2011, 16:39:35 »
Your first design lists 47 points of armour at 2750kg.  Protomech armour is 50kg a point, not 58.5, unless there is some extra rule for these new Protos that I am missing.
Math error.  It should be 55, you're right.  That said, the ERPPC and LPL aren't legal on ProtoMechs, thank God, so let's see.  What is...ooh!

Code: [Select]
Phlegyas

Weight: 15000kg
Structure: 1500kg
Engine: 75, 2000kg
  Walk: 3
  Run: 5
  Jump: 0
Armor/IS: 45, 2250kg
  Head: 6
  Torso 20
  Arms: 5
  Legs: 14
Cockpit 750kg
Torso: Improved Heavy Large Laser, 4000kg
Heat Sinks (18), 4500kg
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
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Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Moonsword

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #7 on: 08 August 2011, 17:04:42 »
The BV of that last one is 494 if anyone's curious.

Youngblood

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #8 on: 08 August 2011, 17:35:07 »
Any ideas to get those guys air-mobile?  I'd love to see a ProtoMech ambush over a building.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #9 on: 08 August 2011, 17:39:03 »
You talking jump jets or parachutes?
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Youngblood

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #10 on: 08 August 2011, 18:20:31 »
From out of line-of-sight to being in line of sight.  As in, jump jets or VTOL or Glider or WiGE or whatever.

Moonsword

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #11 on: 08 August 2011, 18:40:03 »
From out of line-of-sight to being in line of sight.  As in, jump jets or VTOL or Glider or WiGE or whatever.

Gliders will do it but you're going to be painfully slow in the air and anyone using flak (read: HAGs, LB-Xs) will find hitting you fairly simple.  Jets are going to be a little difficult to arrange.

EDIT: Not sure on flak just yet.
« Last Edit: 08 August 2011, 19:08:07 by Moonsword »

Youngblood

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #12 on: 08 August 2011, 18:51:31 »
I'm not necessarily wishing for -faster- Protos, just ones that can attack over terrain they can hide in.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #13 on: 08 August 2011, 18:54:55 »
Well, protos can also move through buildings like infantry, though you pay 2MP each for it. So if you find yourself a couple skyscrapers, you could really ruin someone's day.
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Moonsword

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #14 on: 08 August 2011, 19:04:12 »
I'm not necessarily wishing for -faster- Protos, just ones that can attack over terrain they can hide in.

I'm just noting a few of the things to keep in mind when doing it.  Another problem is the fact that they only have 1 ground MP.  Gliders are not a universal solution.

EDIT: It's not clear they're vulnerable to flak now that I read that part of the rules again.

Well, protos can also move through buildings like infantry, though you pay 2MP each for it. So if you find yourself a couple skyscrapers, you could really ruin someone's day.

The only reason gliders can do that is the minimum movement rule.
« Last Edit: 08 August 2011, 19:07:41 by Moonsword »

wantec

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #15 on: 08 August 2011, 20:54:27 »
Math error.  It should be 55, you're right.  That said, the ERPPC and LPL aren't legal on ProtoMechs, thank God, so let's see.  What is...ooh!
Ok, I'm a little lost, where does it say the ERPPC and LPL aren't legal on Protos?
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Moonsword

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #16 on: 08 August 2011, 21:14:46 »
TechManual page 343.  So are HLLs.  For reasons unknown to me, large ER pulse and improved heavy lasers are available to Protos.

Snake Eyes

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #17 on: 08 August 2011, 21:16:39 »
TechManual page 343.  So are HLLs.  For reasons unknown to me, large ER pulse and improved heavy lasers are available to Protos.
Beat me to it Moonsword.......Yeah that doesn't make sense.....maybe its a mistake

Moonsword

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #18 on: 08 August 2011, 21:29:14 »
It's possible no one bothered attempting it with something that was more or less impossible to mount on Protos anyway if you wanted to also have minor luxuries like armor and actual movement.  The prototypes were attempted, were still impossible to use for any practical purpose, but no one bothered adapting the techniques back to standard weapons because, well, they were still uselessly impractical.  Personally, the ER pulse laser bothers me less than an LPL would.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #19 on: 09 August 2011, 00:41:24 »
ERLPL does have only the -1 THM instead of the -2, and while it's got a 15% range bump it's got a 30% heat bump...
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wantec

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #20 on: 09 August 2011, 07:22:30 »
TechManual page 343.  So are HLLs.  For reasons unknown to me, large ER pulse and improved heavy lasers are available to Protos.
Ah, thank you, didn't even think to look there.

Maybe it's a combination of tonnage and heat sinks needed for the weapon which is why they excluded it. Surprisingly, they didn't exclude the ERLL that way.
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Moonsword

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #21 on: 09 August 2011, 09:49:26 »
Well, ERLLs are smaller than LPLs are on Protos - 7000 kg vs. 8500 kg.  Still large enough to be impractical on non-Ultras but at least you can mount them on a 9 tonner that's as fast as an Urbie with rusted-out actuators and just enough armor on the head, torso, and legs to stop an LMG once.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #22 on: 09 August 2011, 10:12:38 »
Well, ERLLs are smaller than LPLs are on Protos - 7000 kg vs. 8500 kg.  Still large enough to be impractical on non-Ultras but at least you can mount them on a 9 tonner that's as fast as an Urbie with rusted-out actuators and just enough armor on the head, torso, and legs to stop an LMG once.
I remember statting that one.

Maybe it's a combination of tonnage and heat sinks needed for the weapon which is why they excluded it. Surprisingly, they didn't exclude the ERLL that way.
I think it's more the "you want a point of these with five LPLs that don't build up heat, get a +1 TMM because of their size, get near-miss charts, and can potentially carry as much armor between them as an Atlas?  Are you high?"
« Last Edit: 09 August 2011, 10:14:14 by ANS Kamas P81 »
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Fear Factory

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #23 on: 11 August 2011, 00:13:17 »
Man.  That heavy large laser one...   {>{>

You know what though...  I want one with 4 heavy medium lasers.  I don't care if it's a glass cannon, what, potential of 200 damage per point?
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wantec

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #24 on: 11 August 2011, 08:00:09 »
Man.  That heavy large laser one...   {>{>

You know what though...  I want one with 4 heavy medium lasers.  I don't care if it's a glass cannon, what, potential of 200 damage per point?
I don't know if that's even possible. 1000kg for the Heavy Medium, 1750 for the heat sinks, that's 11000kg for 4 Heavy Mediums and heat sinks. Now 3 of them might be workable.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #25 on: 11 August 2011, 10:54:28 »
Baba Yaga
Quote
Weight: 15000kg
Structure: 1500kg
Engine: 90, 3000kg
  Walk: 1
  Run: 1
  WiGE Cruise: 5
  WiGE Flank: 8
Armor/IS: 47, 2750kg
  Head: 6
  Torso 16
  Arms: 6
  Legs: 14
  Main Gun: 5
Cockpit 750kg
ER Large Laser, 4000kg
Heat Sinks (12), 3000kg
oh dear god what
« Last Edit: 11 August 2011, 10:56:22 by ANS Kamas P81 »
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Fear Factory

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #26 on: 11 August 2011, 14:24:26 »
I don't know if that's even possible. 1000kg for the Heavy Medium, 1750 for the heat sinks, that's 11000kg for 4 Heavy Mediums and heat sinks. Now 3 of them might be workable.

I'll settle for this!   :D
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Snake Eyes

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #27 on: 11 August 2011, 15:41:06 »
Baba Yagaoh dear god what
Thats not even right :o

Decoy

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #28 on: 11 August 2011, 16:48:15 »
I'm not worried about it. Get me the BV for a point.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: A trio of Ultra Protos
« Reply #29 on: 11 August 2011, 20:25:14 »
I'm not worried about it. Get me the BV for a point.
I hate you.

Okay, let's see.
Armor 47*2.5=117.5
IS 31*1.5=46.5
No defensive equipment
Defensive Factor 1.4(?)
Defensive Rating (117.5+46.5)*1.4=229.6
ER Large Laser 248
Speed factor 1.37
Offensive Rating 248*1.37=339.76
DBR+OBR 229.6+339.76=569(.36)

BV 569 each, 2845 for a full point, skill rating 4/4
« Last Edit: 11 August 2011, 20:44:48 by ANS Kamas P81 »
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
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