BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat

BattleTech Game Systems => A Time of War => Topic started by: monbvol on 26 January 2011, 02:51:25

Title: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 26 January 2011, 02:51:25
Warnings about usability:
All intended user entries are shaded yellow.
Each file is one character only so be sure to keep a blank version handy.
Currently my spreadsheet does not correctly follow the rules for repeating modules.
There is a print tab so you don't have to print out pages and pages of mostly blank crap but it does require some sorting to do so.  My attempts at automating the sort have failed to date.  Also some know how for setting print ranges is required.
There are plenty of drop down menus to help prevent typos and ensure everything works correctly.  Some are hidden until certain character options are selected.
Due to certain limitations mostly on my part some modules will not match AToW's listed XP costs.  This is likely because of free XP or having a multiple choice option associated with the module.
There are helpful comments in the file to help guide you.
Leave the modules blank if making a point buy character.
Be sure to use the first available module entry when making a module method character.
Some of the short comings of my sheet are somewhat intentional to make people still have to rely on having AToW available to them in some form as primary reference to ensure character creation is done by the rules(like remembering details about who needs Citizenship for what or making sure they follow the special cases for previously required modules like University), others like the flexible XP and any "Choose one of the following" are limitations of my ability with spreadsheets.  After all it is a supplement, not a replacement.
I can't think of much else off the top of my head.

I did think of one thing to clear up.  When I first developed this spreadsheet it was not fully compatible with MS Office.  It should be usable in MS Office now.

I'm pretty happy with where it is now and probably won't be doing any further development on it but knowing me and the things I have learned in doing this I might think about eventually doing another major rewrite moving it up to version 4 of the sheet.

Next I'll do the standard disclaimer:

A Time of War is the property of Catalyst Games Labs.  This spreadsheet is intended as a game aid only.  It does not replace their fine product.  Use of this spreadsheet is at your own risk.

Get it here (http://www.mediafire.com/?vclwjkoaj1q9i4r).

Now with additional aides!  Check out the first attachment to this post for a list of 200 questions to help you think about the fluffy bits of your character!  The second is a quick and somewhat dirty table that shows all the XP to skill rank conversions for all the traits that impact said conversion!
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: Bedwyr on 26 January 2011, 23:20:55
What would it take to get working in Office then?
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 27 January 2011, 01:22:58
Probably a redesign from the ground up.

I'm not sure why it acts so funky for some of the formulas/calculations I use though I do know why my validation rules don't work though I have learned of a MS Office compatible function that I could use in such a redesign.

Of course it would probably be even better if I could dig up a more recent copy of MS Office than 2001 to develop a new version in.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: Bedwyr on 27 January 2011, 01:59:32
Your call of course.  It would be a very valuable resource if you did get another creative hankering.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 27 January 2011, 02:49:53
Yeah it's one of those things.

I want to put it on my to do list and I have the time, I just have trouble making myself since my current version does work albeit with a software suite I have a love hate relationship with.

It depends on how much longer I stay unemployed.  Which could be a while since I theorize I may not be employable in the current economy and that is unlikely to change.  Worst part is I do have enough evidence to support this speculation that it may be moving into theory territory.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: MEP on 27 January 2011, 12:03:28
Honestly, I think setting up something like this for Google Docs is much more valuable because then you know that everyone has access to it. You don't have to worry about what spreadsheet every possible user has installed on their system and you don't have to worry about which version of Office they're using or any of that crap. Google Docs is free and if they have internet access (to this forum for instance) they have google access.

Sure, some people won't like it because they're emotionally attached to something else, but that's true no matter what you use. At least this way, you know it will work for everyone.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 27 January 2011, 12:16:07
I have had issues with things working right in Googledocs and I think the usability of the sheet is higher if users nab their own copy that they can tinker with if desired.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: Bedwyr on 05 February 2011, 20:44:38
Finally downloaded Libre and tried it.  It looks really powerful, but hard to decipher.  I see dropdowns for affiliations, sub affiliations, and modules.  I see column sets for skills, traits, and attributes.  I'm also seeing XP denoted in Pool, Bank, and Starting.  Can you clarify the first two?  I can't make things add back up to 5000.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 05 February 2011, 21:27:56
Pool is basically what you start with accounting for the whole +/- 100 for each year past 21.  Bank is what is currently left of the Pool.  The Starting is a GM override if say you want to run a campaign with 6000 XP characters instead of 5000.  So ideally the bank should equal as close to 0 as possible.

The drop downs are to prevent typos.

I keep trying to save a Macro to the thing that will organize the Print sheet for the user but it doesn't seem to stick so for now the end user is on their own for sorting the Print sheet into something useful.

Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: Bedwyr on 06 February 2011, 00:27:57
Hmm, I'm probably being thick, but the starting xp is 5000.  Pool is 3000.  Bank is 2150.

3000 + 2150 + 850 != 5000.  Something somewhere is adding in an extra 1000xp mysteriously or I don't understand the book well enough.

I tried changing it to 4000 and it came up with 2000 + 1150, which is correct.

@ 6000, I get 4000 + 3150, which is 1000 over again.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 06 February 2011, 01:10:44
At 1 year old(what I have the minimum set at currently) with a Starting pool of 5000 will result in a Pool of 3000.  The Bank of remaining XP will then equal 2150.

Here is the math one step at a time.

To get the each year before 21 we start with 1-21 = -20.

Multiply that by 100  -20*100 = -2000.

Subtract from the Starting allotment 5000-2000 = 3000.

Now account for the mandatory investments 3000-850 = 2150.

So even though the Starting pool is 5000 because the character is only one year old until modules are selected or the age advanced the Pool will only be 3000.  The Bank is how much XP is left to be spent.

I know technically it is an optional rule but I like it.  It wouldn't be hard for me to add another GM entry cell to put that in compliance with the rules.

Oh yes because I forgot to mention it because of the whole module thing and optimization I did not code in any sort of maximum negative trait limit.  I also forgot to mention since I couldn't think of a good way to handle the situations where you have to choose from multiple skills or traits in a module it does not correctly handle those.  I also defaulted some of the fields and modules to certain skills and as such tracking the XP costs for some of those can be a bit of a pain.

I have also discovered an error in the Gremlins, Tech Empathy, Slow Learner, and Fast Learner skill rank calculations.  I can fix most of that but somehow I missed Computers is also effected by Gremlins and Tech Empathy.  This could be problematic because of the highly complicated nested if statement structure I have set up to handle skill calculations.

I have started thinking about a new version and I am frankly tempted to deep six the Spreadsheet implementation.  So sort of a good news bad news situation there.  I have VB 6, C++, SQL, and a Java book either all sitting on my shelf or readily obtainable.  I am slightly leaning toward Java because I do already have a SDK for that and it'll skip the whole problem of compiling for different OSes.  Problem is I haven't seriously coded in Java in years and even then I barely got to the GUI stuff.  C++ has actually been longer, didn't even get to the GUI stuff at all, and I'm not sure if the compiler I have will even work on Windows 7.  VB 6, well it's what I got but I'm not sure how that venture would work especially with modern .Net structures and OSes.  SQL I would need to get a lot of things for and even then I'm not sure how well it would actually handle something like a Character Generation aid.

Oy.  Now the old headaches are coming back.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: Bedwyr on 06 February 2011, 10:58:36
Ok, I think I get what it means.  If it does mean that then the Pool field isn't all that useful.  It's the other field you monitor to see how close it's getting to 0.  Anyhow...



Hmm.

Actual programming would be a difficult and long row to hoe.  If you do go that way, I'd go with java and rely on people like Skyhigh and Taharqa for advice and help.  Those opposed to installing java runtime are also fewer than those who can't/won't use .Net.

Since Excel is probably not in the cards (don't recommend doing anything on less than '03), I'd go for a freshening up of the existing spreadsheet.

My suggestions:

- Offload some of the stuff to script (I believe Libre uses javascript, yes?).  It'll make life easier on you.

- Obviously whatever leftover bug fixing needs to happen.

- Do a worksheet usability re-design.  While I like the amount of automation that you did compared to the more manual attempt I made awhile back, it's not very user friendly.  Some things don't really serve a purpose to the user (ID# or the pool I spoke of).  Other things are confusing or need more explanation (Lkp, rank in negative numbers, etc).

I can send you pack some comments and mockups on what might help if you like.

- Not sure I'm jiving with the XP pool thing.  I sort of get the math
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 06 February 2011, 13:14:36
Well the pool is useful because say instead you have a 31 year old character.

31-21 = 10.

10*100 = 1000.

5000+1000 = 6000.

It is there to handle the +/-100 XP for each year over/under 21 while Starting gives the baseline.

As to hiding the ID#s and lookup cells I thought about it and I probably should do it.  Anyone with enough skills to tinker with what I've done for their own ends probably also has enough skills to un-hide them.

As to my approach for the next design yeah I'm considering my options still.  I don't have the money for a newer MS Office than the 2001 sitting on my shelf and actually coding something this ambitious is going to take a rather long time.  Possibly in the years time frame considering how much I'm going to have to relearn.  All said and done though I am pretty well almost at the limit of what I can make automated with my skill set with a Spreadsheet and to make this useful for a larger set of users will require a redesign from the ground up what ever I choose.

Things now on my to do list that I can implement:

Add another cell somewhere to allow for the optional part of the +/-100 XP
Finish reworking the calculation errors for Fast and Slow Learner.
Hide the unneeded stuff.
Lock the not data entry cells so users can't change the wrong things.

Something I'm not sure how to do without adding to the monster nested if statement:

Figure out a way to get Computers to behave properly with Tech Empathy and Gremlins.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: Bedwyr on 06 February 2011, 13:36:54
Well yeah, but I don't have direct influence over the pool.  I'd recommend re-labeling it something like: "XP Pool (based on current age)" so it's clear.  That's the kind of thing I'm getting at for the average user.


Quick questions:

- Why am I getting negative numbers and value errors in Rank?

-- For instance, cryptography has 30 final points and it has a -1 value. 
-- Forgery has 20 points and a -1 value.
-- Interest/any has 30 points and a 0 value.


- The print tab shows acting on the first line, then value errors, then nothing.  Should there be more skills showing up?

-- I thought it might be getting hung up on administration (10 points, threw a value error, reduced it to 0, no change on the print tabe BUT, admin does show up if I raise it to 20 points... no other skills show up)


- What are the strange negative numbers next to final attribute scores?
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 06 February 2011, 14:23:36
If you don't have enough XP in a skill to have a skill rank my sheet tosses an error out.  I suppose I need to add another comment there.

Negative Ranks in a skill happen because I automatically add in the Attribute bonus(or penalty in this case) to the skill rank.  Comment added to clear this up.

And special thanks to Bedwyr for being the first user to actually give input on this dang thing to make it more usable!
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 06 February 2011, 14:27:50
Almost forgot if you need to remove the protection the password is the page number with the aging effects table.

Also for some reason despite me telling it to hide the ID#s and lookup stuff it seems it actually hasn't.  This is getting to be a pain.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: Cannon_Fodder on 06 February 2011, 18:39:19
Almost forgot if you need to remove the protection the password is the page number with the aging effects table.

Also for some reason despite me telling it to hide the ID#s and lookup stuff it seems it actually hasn't.  This is getting to be a pain.
You should give up on excel and make a GUI  ;D
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 06 February 2011, 21:58:36
I probably will for the next version.

I am growing weary of this whole developing it in one suite makes it not behave the same when using another suite thing that Spreadsheets give.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 06 February 2011, 22:11:21
I have started thinking about a new version and I am frankly tempted to deep six the Spreadsheet implementation.  So sort of a good news bad news situation there.  I have VB 6, C++, SQL, and a Java book either all sitting on my shelf or readily obtainable.  I am slightly leaning toward Java because I do already have a SDK for that and it'll skip the whole problem of compiling for different OSes.  Problem is I haven't seriously coded in Java in years and even then I barely got to the GUI stuff.  C++ has actually been longer, didn't even get to the GUI stuff at all, and I'm not sure if the compiler I have will even work on Windows 7.  VB 6, well it's what I got but I'm not sure how that venture would work especially with modern .Net structures and OSes.  SQL I would need to get a lot of things for and even then I'm not sure how well it would actually handle something like a Character Generation aid.

*glances at his copy of visual studio*

hmm... C++, C#, Java, VB6... I need a chalk board. And flow charts. Gotta start thinking about flow charts.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 06 February 2011, 23:03:24
Well I'm still early enough in the decision cycle to take input from potential users.

Hopefully I'll get more than last time I sought some.

Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: Bedwyr on 07 February 2011, 00:02:10
Again, Java will serve the most users and you've got ready resources in the developers for help on GUI design.  Also Eclipse is a really good (and free) IDE.  Better than NetBeans in some peoples' opinion.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 07 February 2011, 00:33:07
Geez I'm getting absent minded these days.

I just realized I forgot to mention that I do have my non-canon affiliations for my AU in my spreadsheet.  I also have all the old proto states that would later become the factions we know today.  So if you see affiliations you are not familiar with this would probably be them.

I may see about reposting some of my AU stuff that I do have worked up.  I have super short faction write ups to go with RPG data for them.  I have some short stories as well.  Plus a more detailed faction write up for one of them.  Of course with the board wipes I may also take the opportunity to rewrite some of this.  We'll see how creative I'm feeling.  :P

Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: Tempus on 19 February 2011, 04:05:02
It seems that people interpret the starting xp and age thing differently.  As a result I'd like a switch that uses a set baseline of exp and does not attempt to adjust the exp pool for the character's age.


For our goup we set a 'baseline' age and used that as the starting exp..   in our case age 25 (figuring a merc company wants folks with a bit of experience, on average) so starting exp of 5400


No matter how old you build, 18 or 31  that's your exp.  (plus aging effects if you cross those thresholds)


The basis for doing it this way is this line in the rules



Quote
a character’s actual age may not conform to the XPs allotted to
his “baseline age”. This is perfectly legal, so long as the allotted
XPs are properly accounted for. After all, experience is more
than a measure of years.


we also felt this method was more equitable and didn't penalize someone who wants to build some young attribute heavy phenom verses someone else's skills heavy grizzled vet  (and i also tends to prevent a group composed of almost entirely 30 somethings created because everyone wanted that extra thousand or so exp for the extra 100 per year.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 19 February 2011, 04:53:06
Which is why I gave a few GM option cells so that you can go with or without the optional rule of +/-100 per year above or below 21 for a Spheroid and 18 for a Clanner in my last revision.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 19 February 2011, 05:16:36
Oh since I'm still awake from horrible insomnia from breaking my months long spell from drinking something with caffeine in it a progress report on my next version.

I have sketched out a flow chart for the first time in years just to give myself something of an idea how this will work.

I'll probably be spending the rest of my insomnia reading one of my Java books to start think about taking this from flow chart to execution.

Thanks to the flow chart though I am starting to get ideas on how to handle certain elements when they come up.

So for now things are progressing reasonably well for how many years it's been since I last coded in Java but I doubt it'll be anytime soon before I have much more than sketches and mock-ups.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: Bedwyr on 19 February 2011, 10:57:55
The best way to program.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 19 February 2011, 16:39:59
Let me see your flow charts when you get a chance, I'll help with the work.

Damnit, I need a chalk board.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 26 February 2011, 19:21:14
I haven't gotten to any coding yet.  I have way too much Java to relearn for any progress on that front to be made anytime soon.

What I have managed to get done is a currency conversion spreadsheet for my alternate universe.  I need to add some notation then I just might share it.

I've finished a Random Allocation Table for Driving/Ground for my alternate setting's first era.  I'm debating just calling that good overall though just so I don't have to worry about overdoing something that is probably going to see very little usage.  I lost track of where I left off for stating the entries that need them but I'm probably 75% done in that regard.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet
Post by: monbvol on 07 March 2011, 02:01:28
Shoot this is turning into a think tank thread isn't it?

Progress is frankly slow on relearning Java.  I keep finding myself working on other projects rather than cracking open one of my books to start wrapping my head around the actual coding.  Though I still manage once in a while.

What work I've managed to get done on it is mostly layout and procedural stuff.  I've pretty well determined that the final output will almost certainly be a two page affair for printing.  Probably three.  One for biographical data and if we can pull it off maybe even have a section where a picture can be put on there for the artistically inclined or those who have a reference picture they'd like to use.  I would also like to put the Attributes, Modules chosen, and any fields the character possesses on this page as well.  The rest we'll have to see how many pages will be needed.

Since my AU Affiliations are in my spreadsheet I may have to repost what little I have for write ups and what not.  I have the Terran Dominion on my HD now and part of the Belarus Alliance.  I have to admit even though I have given myself a fair amount of stuff to do despite the free version of Minecraft eating hours and World of Tanks doing a decent job of hogging time too I seem to be getting a fair amount done.

I'm making good progress on other projects.  One I am not going to disclose because it is for the use of myself and my gaming group only.  I have cobbled together a Mercenary Contract creator for my AU of a sorts.  I think it still needs work but it is getting there.  I only have maybe 20 vehicles or so left to stat for my AU design archive.  I have at least a dozen mechs left to recover.  I'm debating how much more to recover before I give my alternate setting another whirl for an RPG campaign.  I like to do that once in a great while because it is a good test to see what I need to work on still to flesh out the setting more.  I figure I may be able to get my Random Allocation Tables to a satisfactory level for the campaign I have in mind with not much more effort.  Depends on how evil my players want to be to me for how evil I am going to be to them.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 11 March 2011, 01:42:01
Since I've been forced to step up my efforts on recovering my AU stuff I haven't been getting as much done on my coding re-education.

I'm within probably 30 mechs or so of recovering everything that I can/care to in that regard and have probably a couple dozen combat vehicles that need stats still and untold numbers of ASFs and battle armor.

I haven't forgot all the other things I need to get cracking on.

Let's see I've got about a dozen projects going on these days and I'm only really close to finishing up two of them.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 12 March 2011, 18:59:28
Okay I think I have my archive of mechs reasonably recovered for now.  I could probably use more low tech mechs but that can wait for when I get bored and have fewer projects.

I'm still debating on how much effort to really put into a Random Allocation Table.

Come Monday unless my gaming group gets together again I fully intend to spend many hours just reading a damn Java book.

I agree with Liam's Ghost in that I would like to put all the actual data into an external source rather than hard coding everything into the program itself.  It'll make it easier to add new information and if we do it right we will even have the program able to support house rules/Alternate setting information.  What this external source will be has yet to be determined.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Bedwyr on 12 March 2011, 21:44:15
We support your efforts!
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 18 March 2011, 13:15:32
It has been a week since I did an update and I feel the need to go ahead and keep up that pace for updates.

I'll admit I've been getting rather side tracked lately letting myself do too many unrelated things but I have made some progress.  I have started sketching out what I want some of the windows to look like when done and have jotted page references for how to pull off what I want.

Next thing I intend to concentrate on is deciding how the output will look for the character itself and how to store the back end information so it'll be usable by the program and editable for those who want to do house rules.

All in all I'm probably only a couple weeks out at most from starting the coding.  That will certainly be slow going.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Bedwyr on 18 March 2011, 14:27:46
It has been a week since I did an update and I feel the need to go ahead and keep up that pace for updates.

I'll admit I've been getting rather side tracked lately letting myself do too many unrelated things but I have made some progress.  I have started sketching out what I want some of the windows to look like when done and have jotted page references for how to pull off what I want.

Next thing I intend to concentrate on is deciding how the output will look for the character itself and how to store the back end information so it'll be usable by the program and editable for those who want to do house rules.

All in all I'm probably only a couple weeks out at most from starting the coding.  That will certainly be slow going.

One note, if you will be creating the ability to print sheets, it should be optional whether abilities affect skill as is standard on the published character sheet.  I know you auto-calculated that in the spreadsheet and it is convenient, but I had to extract the unaffected numbers to write out a standard sheet (and to allow for flexibility in case skills and/or abilities changed).
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 18 March 2011, 14:38:37
Yeah after some quick thought I concur I should probably have the raw skill rank no link attribute modifiers added and with standard link attribute modifiers if any.  I feel it'll be situational enough when the standard link attributes are inappropriate that the player should be able to do their own math when it comes up.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 19 March 2011, 19:57:51
Okay I did a mock up of roughly what I want the first page to look like for the output.  I know I'm going to have to get a bit more creative to figure out how to get the remaining modules on there if someone does decide to max out.

I will probably replace the equipment section with just a series of lines for the player to jot down their desired gear because I'm disinclined to include an equipment buying function.

Any way I would like some feedback on the layout.

Advanced warnings:

The first page is what I am currently referring to as the fluff page since it contains a lot of those fiddly bits.

The second I intend to set up as pretty much just a master list of the characters skills, traits, and special abilities.

Third will be a combat quick reference page where the players can jot down their armor and weapon stats and have all their static modifiers set to go.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 27 March 2011, 02:00:13
Oops day late on my intended update schedule.

Since it has been a week and no one has commented one way or another I find myself at an impasse.  I do see two changes I need to make though.  For a 10 module character I need to make more space to list the modules.  At the very least I should give the player a space to jot down current C-Bill balance and I should also list the Equipment ratings for post creation item purchasing for those GMs who pay attention to such things.

Aside from that I think I may be on the verge of breaking out a SDK to start some coding.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Gaifin on 28 March 2011, 00:10:05
Looks good to me..Used your updated sheet today  and worked well [rockon]
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 28 March 2011, 14:23:30
Glad you like it.

Though I really should fix the Fast/Slow Learner thing one of these days.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: ghth on 29 March 2011, 16:00:46
You Sir, created a very good excel sheet. I just tried it and it looks great and you put a lot of effort in it. Maybe you should draw some borders around some tables, to give a better overview.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 29 March 2011, 17:32:30
I just wish it'd work better with MS Excel is all.

Open Office has some nice features but it seems to not translate too well when using MS Office to open a file developed in Open Office.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 06 April 2011, 01:33:36
I fixed the last two issues I can think of how to fix without doing a major redevelopment from the ground up.

I fixed the XP tables for converting to skill ranks for Fast Learner, Slow Learner, Tech Empathy, and Gremlins.

I even fixed the Target Numbers thing for Tech Empathy.

I'll see what I can do to have just a skill rank no attribute modifiers then it'll probably be it for the spreadsheet version.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 06 April 2011, 02:14:47
Sorry the one person who downloaded my last update.

A formula got copied where it shouldn't have.

It is fixed now.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 14 April 2011, 12:52:50
I am contemplating abandoning coding my own character creator.

I have found a decent enough alternative that is much farther along in the development cycle and works fine for canon campaigns.  It is still a little buggy but it isn't bad.  Compounded with frankly a lack of interest from anyone else and my help being disinterested in helping to the point I wrote off their supposed help a month ago.

Things left to figure out for my spreadsheet:

The XP cost adjustment for Illiterate.  I can put it in but it will be a huge pain in the ass to adjust the skill level look ups.

I need better ways to set field skills on the fly and better ways to calculate the rebate for point buy.  For now though the Field Skills are as good as their going to get.

Optimization functionality.  I'd have to shoehorn in a couple columns somewhere.  Maybe even go so far as to have an extra tab just for optimization.  I'd also have to figure out how to get it to do the XP costs correctly.  Simple enough premise but just because something is simple does not mean it is easy.

I still really don't have a good way to make the sheet enforce the extra 10% XP of Negative Traits.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Maelwys on 14 April 2011, 16:48:24
Have you given any thought to shading the various cells in different colors, depending on what the user is supposed to do with them? One color for user entered data, another for calculated results...right now you open it up and there's a lot of intimidating white space, especially since the drop down boxes aren't apparent until you click on them. A bit of visual guidance would be helpful, instead of clicking each cell and wondering if its going to be a formula or blank cell :)
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 14 April 2011, 18:46:53
Not a bad idea actually.

And I'm finding the data protection  feature is not working correctly which I had hoped to be able to make use of to help with that issue.  So for my next release that will be turned off.  I put a light yellow background on every cell the user is intended to be able to alter.

While I was at it I did fix the extra entries for skills issue a bit.  So now if for some weird reason you want to have a Natural Aptitude for one of these skills it will now appear correctly.

Hopefully there will be a fix for that soon and I can turn protection back on.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 15 April 2011, 17:40:30
Somehow the XP advancement wasn't being tracked correctly.  Fixed now so it'll be less of a pain to reprint your character after your GM awards sufficient XP.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Bedwyr on 22 April 2011, 11:13:23
Can you re-post a link in the OP so we know where to get your materials?
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 22 April 2011, 11:26:17
The link for the sheet itself seems to still be working fine for me.  :P

Now if you mean my AU stuff I went and rewrote all that stuff since this sheet to be compliant with my new house rules but haven't rewritten the sheet to be compliant.  So uploading that would be more confusing than helpful.  I'll try and make up for it by finishing my rewrite of the one faction write up I have finished and completing the rest.

Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Bedwyr on 22 April 2011, 14:04:31
The link for the sheet itself seems to still be working fine for me.  :P


No no.  Just what I get for not paying attention.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 27 April 2011, 01:36:40
Okay I managed to find my write up of the Terran Dominion in the archives of the old board.

I've put it up in the Fan Fiction (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,5099.0.html) boards because it didn't seem right putting it in the non-canon units forum and likewise it didn't seem to fit in here very well either.

One down and seven more to go.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 22 July 2011, 12:55:54
Figured since there has been some renewed interest in the sheet as of late I'd bump this thread so people who need some guidance would at least have the scant few helpful hints I've put in here to help them out.

I'm still trying to figure out a way to automatically sort the Print Tab so that it is a little easier to get a less monsterous print out going.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Welshman on 26 July 2011, 00:16:11
Monbvol,

Having built an spreadsheet for advanced units (sorry it's an internal CGL dev resource right now) I've got great respect for what you've done. Keep up the good work.

Couple of questions/issues:
Note- maybe I'm just missing something obvious on some of these. If so, thanks for the pointers.

Module 3 to 10 have blank pull downs: If you go to data validation and fix the cell range to not include the blank cells at the end, this fixes the problem.

Fields have a blank pull down: Same fix as above

F100- Age adjustment confusing: Only after I read this thread did I see the note that this is a variable XP field and not the age adjustment over/under 21. Might help to make the comment more clear.

Module Age: Stage 2 covers late childhood, which is ages 11 to 16. Cell H3 says the age is ten.

Using the Modules, especially for older characters: Trying to make a 47 year old character who was a lifer military. If I put in Military Basic, Military Advanced and then Tour of Duty for the rest, I only get a 37 year old. Any suggestions?

Fields: Not sure how to use these in relation to character generation. Disclaimer, been a long time since I worked on AToW and that section I only reviewed, so I may just be missing something obvious. Even us writers can't know all the rules.

Thanks,
Welshman
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 26 July 2011, 23:36:22
Quote
Module 3 to 10 have blank pull downs: If you go to data validation and fix the cell range to not include the blank cells at the end, this fixes the problem.

Fields have a blank pull down: Same fix as above

Mostly those blank sections in the drop downs are there to support additional Module/Field selections if they should become available.  I may go ahead and cut down to the supported Modules/Fields to be less confusing.

Quote
F100- Age adjustment confusing: Only after I read this thread did I see the note that this is a variable XP field and not the age adjustment over/under 21. Might help to make the comment more clear.

I'll try and remember to make a notation that is less confusing for the XP for age above or below 21.

Quote
Module Age: Stage 2 covers late childhood, which is ages 11 to 16. Cell H3 says the age is ten.

This is something I need to make a notation on.  The entire column where this appears denotes how many years the character actually spends in that Stage/Module not their actual age.

Quote
Using the Modules, especially for older characters: Trying to make a 47 year old character who was a lifer military. If I put in Military Basic, Military Advanced and then Tour of Duty for the rest, I only get a 37 year old. Any suggestions?

Here's where we run into one of the problems of using a spreadsheet only approach to character generation.  I have no good way to make sure attributes and traits are applied only once and the way I have the XP calculating for modules it is a little off to say the least.  As to how to make a 47 year old lifer oh boy.  Since I only support the official limit of 10 modules but I do not count affiliation in that limit I'm not sure if it is even possible using only Tour of Duty.

Quote
Using the Modules, especially for older characters: Trying to make a 47 year old character who was a lifer military. If I put in Military Basic, Military Advanced and then Tour of Duty for the rest, I only get a 37 year old. Any suggestions?

The Fields selection is so you can get the standard allotments and correctly receive the rebate XP for the Stage 3 training fields.  I have hopes of someday being able to use this to correctly automate the XP rebate for Point Buy character generation, something that still requires the user to do their own math for.

It has problems and I've probably missed a few that need mentioning but I hope it serves you well.  Though at this point I'm not sure how much farther I can take it with my skill set.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Nerhesi on 28 July 2011, 16:01:30
None of the pulldowns are giving me any text values, just either "0" listed multiple times, or a list from 0 to 20+ or 40+ or so.

Yes, just the actual integers.. almost like row ID numbers. Am I using an older version of excel or something?
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 28 July 2011, 16:42:53
Excel doesn't play nice with Open Office, any version.  I know I started development using Excel but after my last crash I had to switch to Open Office because I could only find really ancient MS Office instillation disks.  Despite the claims of compatibility my sheet no longer works correctly with Excel.  So yeah without starting from scratch and a job to pay for MS Office that isn't an ancient relic this is about as good as my sheet is going to get.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Nerhesi on 28 July 2011, 17:33:30
my apologies - misread the first part as does not work well with open office not vice versa
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 28 July 2011, 19:18:40
No worries.

It's something I still harbor hopes to fix someday.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Daryk on 29 July 2011, 06:39:27
Excel doesn't play nice with Open Office, any version.  I know I started development using Excel but after my last crash I had to switch to Open Office because I could only find really ancient MS Office instillation disks.  Despite the claims of compatibility my sheet no longer works correctly with Excel.  So yeah without starting from scratch and a job to pay for MS Office that isn't an ancient relic this is about as good as my sheet is going to get.
Interesting.  I've never had a problem going back and forth.  But then, I don't use any pull downs, so maybe that's the issue.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 29 July 2011, 11:30:22
Two major problems crop up:

1: I used direct references to content on different tabs in the validation rules for my pull downs.  This is a feature that is not supported in MS Office.  You can use the INDIRECT function to achieve something similar in theory but lacking a suitable test environment I haven't explored this.

2: The formulas will produce weird numbers that do not match between MS Office and Open Office.  I'm not sure why this is since the formulas that produce these numbers should work exactly the same between the two platforms.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Daryk on 29 July 2011, 17:57:56
Which version of office are you using?  I'm using 2010 now, and I haven't seen a problem yet, but then I may be looking in the wrong places.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 30 July 2011, 00:13:57
I have only been able to test it with Office 2001 and 2007.

So if 2010 works I'll take what I can get.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 05 October 2011, 10:55:49
And I think I've figured out the problem for Excel compatibility.  At least mostly.

It was in how I was handling the attribute bonus lookup.  I found a simpler way to handle it and it eliminated all those nasty #N/As and incorrect skill rank issues.  I still run into problems with using validation rules from other tabs but I can go ahead and see about replacing those with named ranges and I may well be finally done with this project.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 05 October 2011, 11:15:06
And fixed, at least in MS Office 2010.  So those of you that have been missing out because I was being frankly an idiot for making things more complicated than they needed to be check out the link in the first post of this thread and have at.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 01 January 2012, 23:30:56
Lately with all the shifting gears of Liam's Ghost's campaigns I've just been noticing certain things just seem to be off in my spreadsheet so I've started doing some auditing of my spreadsheet.  So far I've noticed for Module build it does not correctly charge for Affiliations.  Since I have no good way to charge for flexible XP I know the modules that have flexible XP will be charged differently but the good news is so far the 1st Stage Modules all seem to be correct.

I'm debating as to if I should go ahead and fix this since Point Buy still works just fine and most of the other changes I would like to make will almost certainly require a ground up rebuild anyway.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 27 January 2012, 12:15:10
Well since Megaupload is having legal troubles I'm forced to pull my link.  So I hope everyone who wanted it got the most recent version.

I may take this opportunity to start work on a redesign.  It might be nice to properly support House Rules and make the Fields actually work right.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 25 March 2012, 12:22:50
Back in business folks.  Trying Mediafire.  Link is in the first post.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 05 April 2012, 21:24:23
Good to see folks are still trying my sheet out.

I added a new helpful hint to the first post to help with using the sheet.

I've detected an accounting issue so if I get off my lazy duff I will see about fixing it.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 05 April 2012, 21:30:47
Okay I got off my lazy duff.

The accounting error was in not correctly deducting the Affiliation costs from the remaining XP.  Quick enough fix.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 21 April 2012, 23:11:30
Don't be afraid to keep giving me feed back about how easy or hard it is to actually use this sheet of mine.

Things I'm still baffled about how to fix:
Auto-sorting the Print Tab. -Every method I know how to use does not seem to not save with the sheet.
Auto setting Print Range. -Biggest problem is the possible print range is always going to be different with each character.
Correctly repeating modules. -The only idea I have for this is such a mess that I'm not sure I will ever make it happen.
Self optimization. -There are two problems here.  I'd have to fix a lot of the layout of the worksheet for it to even be possible and even then it is an optional step and as such it is permisable to "bank" extra XP in certain skills.  Indeed this may actually be the better approach just so the sheet is a bit more usable over a campaign and a character gains XP in certain skills.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 04 May 2012, 11:08:18
Okay I guess no one is having any issues with my sheet and it is perfect the way it is. ;D

Seriously unless a few people start speaking up I am going to just leave my sheet the way it is for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Maelwys on 04 May 2012, 21:52:09
If I had a game...

Might be best to just set it aside for now until more people look and play with it, or something massive pops out at you.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 04 May 2012, 22:31:00
I can certainly use it as it is and it may be a bit before my group gets back to AToW.  Overall though yeah I'm not likely to change anything.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Maelwys on 05 May 2012, 07:37:24
Plus I'm an Excel user so it seems a little wonky when I tried it earlier...all of the dropdowns just had 0's in them, or were blank, or had to scroll down for a while, and then the data was just numbers. :)
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 05 May 2012, 13:38:08
Huh.  Thought I had fixed that problem.

Of course now that I don't have ready access to Office newer than 2001 testing is going to be a might bit problematic.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Maelwys on 05 May 2012, 21:25:15
Well, I used the link in the first post, unless I'm missing something...

Really wish Open Office and Excel were slightly more compatible :)
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Woody on 05 May 2012, 22:35:04
I too have the same problem with Excel on the drop downs; I believe I've tried excel 2003/2007, but don't quote me on that.  I think Monbvol quoted 2010 was his test case that showed it worked..  It could just be a version error.  It looked to me that if you grabbed the base version, and then just remapped the dropdowns, that it would work.  In fact I did that for a few of the dropdowns and fiddled with it some.  Unfortunately, I didn't see the value in continuing to mod the sheet, in parallel with the base version..
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 06 May 2012, 00:15:02
Weird.  I'm using cell ranges for the data validity/drop downs which should work just fine in Office 2003/2007.  I didn't even upload an older version of the file this time.

I'll keep at it to see if I can figure out what is going on still.

Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Woody on 06 May 2012, 14:25:18
So, just re-downloaded to check.  Office 2007. Upon freshly opening, I go to cell b10 (affiliation) and hit the dropdown, and don't see anything.  If I look at the data validation it is pointing to "=Affiliations!d43:d1048569".

On the affiliations tab, column D is essentially blank.    It could be pointed to column A or E (don't recall which ) and it would start to work, picking up the names, and then being able to track exp etc.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 06 May 2012, 14:39:56
The one I uploaded and sitting on my computer show the data validation rule as pointing to a cell reference of $Affiliations.E2:E52 for cell B10.  Which should work just fine as Office 2007 can take a cell range for data validation.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Though I didn't set any error codes for the data validation, I only did that to prevent typos.  So if you enter what it expects it should still work.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Woody on 06 May 2012, 16:27:34
Yah, all (or many of) the data validations in 2007 point to very large ranges like the one I mentioned.  Which along with the column being off suggests that maybe a bit is being slipped or something.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 06 May 2012, 18:39:59
Problem at this juncture is how do I fix it since I don't have anything newer than MS Office 2001 and what Open Office shows me should work in MS Office.

I should elaborate a bit further for context.

When I was last employed I managed to have access to MS Office 2010 at work and thanks to that I managed to hash out a lot of other major problems for compatibility and before I was unemployed it worked fine but I have made a couple small changes on the sheet while unemployed so evidence leads me to believe either something in the tinkering I did has fouled something up or there is something really weird going on here.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 09 May 2012, 18:47:30
I know I promised some time back I'd type this up and post it and this thread actually seems more suited to the nature of what I finally typed up since it is inherent to the core of AToW and not my House Rules.

Any rate what I'm rambling on about is I went through with a calculator mostly because it was easier to use to keep track of the XP for all the Stage 4 modules you could repeat and how much XP they reward relative to what you spent to repeat them.

I have no qualms about sharing this because it is not like I'm sharing anything more specific than what you can find for free in the Table of Contents except for which modules can be repeated anyway.

On to the list.

Agitator -45 XP
Civilian Job 0 XP
Clan watch Operative +55 XP
Combat Correspondent -195 XP
Comstar/Word of Blake service -320 XP
Covert Operations -125 XP
Dark Caste 0 XP
Explorer -140 XP
Goliath Scorpion Seeker -50 XP
Guerrilla Insurgent -105 XP
Merchant -50 XP
Ne'er-do-well -295 XP
Organized Crime +50 XP
Scientist Caste Service -50 XP
Solaris Insider -345 XP
Solaris Games -245 XP
Star League Department of Mega Engineering -400 XP
Think Tank -265 XP
Tour of Duty Periphery -175 XP
Tour of Duty Inner Sphere -375 XP
Tour of Duty Clan -400 XP
To serve and Protect -275 XP
Travel -90 XP

List updated due to acquisition of Era Report 2750 and the new module introduced.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 11 May 2012, 23:37:40
I managed to get some time on my Dad's computer which has a more modern MS Office and according to it I have fixed the data validation issues and I even managed to fix the attribute bonus lookup problem I noticed.

So hopefully it will now be more fully cross platform now.

Link in first post updated.

Thanks Woody and Maelwys for your assistance.  Feel free to let me know if anything else winds up not working right in MS Office.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Woody on 12 May 2012, 17:08:28
Monbvol-
This is much better for us M$oft Office users.  However, in module 3 and beyond (3-10), the validation range needs to be something like "=RealLifeList".  Right now it looks like it doesn't have the "=" and maybe even a typo in the string.
The first two work, and the affiliations look like they work.  Quick fix, and should really make this thing sing for MS users.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 12 May 2012, 18:16:46
Weird looks like it didn't save my new validation rule for some reason.

Oh well.  Fixed and I'll upload and correct the link in the first page as soon as I'm done typing this.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 13 May 2012, 22:21:04
Okay I did find some Phenotype problems brought to my attention in my House Rule thread.  Got those fixed.  I do have a data entry error to track down what it is actually supposed to be before I go ahead and re-upload a new version.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 13 May 2012, 22:28:35
It still needs a lot of work before it gets to full AToW compliance but it is probably as close as I can get barring more data entry errors.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 23 May 2012, 18:59:41
Okay I updated my list of repeatable modules but I haven't included the new module from ER:2750 in my spreadsheet.

It really comes down to the simple fact that all the alternate era stuff is a bit of a pain to incorporate into a spreadsheet.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 13 July 2012, 14:22:10
By request and just me getting off my duff and doing it I have dug up my infamous 200 questions.

I suppose I'll repeat the story here for clarity.

In the gaming group I am a part of there used to be a terrible pattern of RPG characters being little more than names and stats with no thoughts given to their background or other fluffy bits.  Even I got a bit fed up with it so whenever it was time for me to run a campaign I started asking a lot of questions.  It was something of a joke that I got up to as many as 200.  After some years I've finally typed up the list of questions I asked and it didn't take much doing to get to 200.

So without further ado my questions.

*updated the questions*
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Kalten on 13 July 2012, 19:36:21
Ta for thje list Mon, found some of the questions very amusing! :)
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 14 July 2012, 14:38:18
You are welcome.

I may rework them a bit to allow a bit more universal use for fantasy/other settings where some of the questions are just not going to come up.  Not much mind you since most of them should work no matter the RPG and no matter the setting.  If I remember when I get back to my regular computer I'll duplicate the list in the first post of this thread for ease of access.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 15 July 2012, 12:44:57
Good news everybody!

I've changed up the questions I wanted to to give them a more universal use and while I was at it I made a few corrections to the more glaring errors(probably need to actually do a ton more such corrections but it'll do for now) and hopefully made a couple questions a bit more clear.  I've updated the attachment a couple posts above but for easier access I've also put it on the first page of this thread.  Have at all.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Galenthor on 17 July 2012, 19:26:35
hey o folks... I just dloaded the spreadsheet, and it won't let me do anything but change from human to like mechwarrior... other than that, it's locked into read only mode... I have been using a recently updated open office, but not that oddball apache thing they are touting lately... any ideas?
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 17 July 2012, 20:37:44
No problems for me.

I haven't even updated that sheet since Apache took over Open Office from Oracle so it is a bit older so it shouldn't be a problem there.

So tech support mode time.

On the mediafire page when it finally loaded did you right click the green box that said AToW3.xls(9.9mb) and on the menu that popped up select "save target as"?
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 25 July 2012, 17:38:20
I did find a fairly substantial error that only impacted characters with Tech Empathy.  It has been fixed and link to correct version is now in the first post of the thread.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 03 October 2012, 14:45:20
Development is at a stand still since mediafire seems to hate me anymore and I really am at a point of only if data entry errors are found could I even really do anything anyway.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 05 October 2012, 11:29:48
A new utility for vanilla AToW is now added to the first post.  A table that shows the final XP cost for skills with all the different combinations of traits that change the XP cost of skills.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Maelwys on 05 October 2012, 17:27:49
Hmm, interesting. I don't think I realized just how many combos there were.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 05 October 2012, 18:58:36
It is pretty sneaky and a big reason why as I use the system more and more I become less and less of a fan of XP conversion effects like these.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 05 January 2013, 18:47:12
Shameless bump on my part I know but I figure with some renewed interest in character creation aides cropping up again I may as well get this back on the first page.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Dave Talley on 22 January 2013, 23:50:25
tag
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 23 January 2013, 00:41:55
Well don't expect much more development at this point.  At best I'll fix data entry errors I find but that will be about it.

The problem i I've realized even though I probably could fix some of the outstanding incompleteness of the sheet it would be easier(possibly mandatory for some items) to start from scratch to implement those features and egads I remember how much of a sanity sucking experience that was the first time around.  As such it is pretty much a non-starter for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 01 March 2013, 15:45:41
Just a shameless bump on my part to keep this on the first page because it does offer a few useful things to people.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: bblaney on 01 March 2013, 17:15:27
Yes it does, a great help imo, ty again, AToW is a pain to make characters when new at it and your spreadsheet helps immensely/
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Bedwyr on 01 March 2013, 17:52:02
Yes, the sheet definitely remains a go-to tool. My group at the moment is experimenting with Pathfinder right now (and we've never done d20 before). We'll probably come back to this at some point.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 07 March 2013, 00:43:02
Belated appreciation for your appreciation!

While I was at it I added a small item of clarification to the first post since the second asks about MS Office compatibility.

At least last time I had access to MS Office the sheet worked in MS Office.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Negaman1971 on 16 March 2013, 16:20:48
Hi! I just wanted to say a big thank you for this, it looks to be awesome and will help me a lot! I am having some confusion with it though and was hoping for your input: when I open it with Excel 2003, I can't seem to get the Fields drop down to show anything. The character I was working on had selected military academy and I was trying to select basic training but I don't see anything. Is there something I'm missing? Should I try open office instead?

Thanks for your time!
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 16 March 2013, 23:43:44
The list is quite large and I padded extra fields into it.  Due to this it may be neccessary to scroll the Dropdown box up to find the field you desire.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Negaman1971 on 17 March 2013, 00:45:17
*smacks forehead*
 :D
Wow, thanks for that tip, it is indeed as you said. I found the same when when I tried picking my 3rd life module as well. You are awesome sir, and I salute you! O0
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 17 March 2013, 01:27:05
Yeah I tried to plan ahead in case I needed extra entry space without screwing up my tables.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 23 May 2013, 14:34:15
Just a shameless bump on my part to get this back on the first page.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 10 July 2013, 16:36:36
Just another shameless bump to keep it from going to page 2 while I'm thinking about it.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Bedwyr on 10 July 2013, 17:28:45
While the sheet's good, I'm going to ask you as a moderator not to do bump posts. They don't contribute to the topic. If there's something new to add, that's different.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 10 July 2013, 17:41:47
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 14 August 2013, 15:00:45
Special thanks should go to hive_angel for letting me know my affiliation XP deductions were not working correctly.

Also seems I went and forgot to upload some other updates I made in late January that I can't remember the details of anymore.  So bonus update.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 12 September 2013, 00:37:16
Just a heads up post from me real quick.

I realized there is a possible feature improvement I may potentially be able to make to my sheet.  It deals exclusively with point buy support.  I have figured out how to handle using the drop downs so you can add the touches of having Affiliation information display for the character without it assigning the module XP.  The only catch is how to handle the phenotype adjustments.  If I can figure out how to handle that I'll incorporate this point buy support option.  When that will get implemented depends on how my efforts to end my two years of unemployment go tomorrow.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 14 September 2013, 16:31:50
Well turns out I have the support setup correctly for point buy phenotype adjustments so I just had to sneak in a couple nested if statements so that you can do a point buy character and still have my sheet show affiliation information.

Just leave the modules blank and go to town.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 16 September 2013, 01:36:29
Okay found some small other errors and corrected them.

Should hopefully work a bit better now for supporting both point buy and module build.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: PurpleDragon on 02 October 2013, 15:29:15
lurking to get any further fixes/updates/enhancements/...
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 02 October 2013, 23:54:17
Unfortunately it is unlikely I will be making any further improvements to my sheet and without error reports I am unlikely to find and fix errors.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: Battleclad on 06 October 2013, 14:32:07
Just a little aside but on the affiliations, I can see one you've missed. The Independent Principality of New Olympica, just a minor thing but hey might as well mention it.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 06 October 2013, 18:01:42
Wasn't in any of my sources as a distinct affiliation.

I'm a bit mixed on the affiliation stuff.

I could replace my AU factions with additional canon affiliation data but at the same time I cringe at the kind of data entry that would require but that is all it would take to get those out of there and expand the usefulness of my sheet.

I'll see if I can make myself get to that since I did do a lot of alterations to my AU/house rule stuff that would require more than simple data entry to make work.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: hive_angel on 06 October 2013, 18:17:31
I thought you fixed the AFF costs?

I have the age at 0 XP 5000 and Bank at 4150 which accounts for the starting 850 paid for the basics.

When I select an IS faction and a qualifying sub faction I don't see 150 deducted, but I see the skills being added.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 06 October 2013, 18:31:54
Did you select a module as well?

Because the version I am working with doesn't distribute skills without also deducting affiliation XP cost if a module is set.

I did it this way so you could use the sheet a bit more easily for both point buy and module builds.

Now it is possible I manage to upload an older unfixed sheet thinking I was uploading the fixed sheet.  That will be easy enough to verify shortly.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 06 October 2013, 20:01:21
Verified the sheet uploaded to Mediafire is operating as intended.

So only the mandatory XP is placed to start with until a module is selected or the user starts entering XP.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: hive_angel on 06 October 2013, 22:31:02
Okay I downloaded fresh from Page 1.

I open it up as is and select module 1 Back Woods which is 240, but should be 290. XP is down to 3910. Then I select FWL for an affiliation. XP is down to 3885. I select Marik Commonwealth a a sub. XP is down to 3760. I think the affiliation worked out, but the price for back woods is off.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 06 October 2013, 23:21:14
The free XP of Back Woods is throwing off the cost.

Things that throw off module costs in my sheet because I have never figured out how to handle them correctly:

Free XP

choices between multiple options

and no good way to handle repeating modules while also following the rules
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: hive_angel on 07 October 2013, 08:24:25
Ahh ok.

Perhaps we can work on a tab in the worksheet for notes like this and a simple ten step how to make a regualr and point by character.

I can start writing something and give to you or you add something and I'll walk it through testing. Love this sheet so I am glad to work on it.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 07 October 2013, 11:06:39
If you would like to write a guide best I can do is toss it on my mediafire account or in a post here somewhere.  Possibly both.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 07 October 2013, 14:38:31
Okay I was going through to update my character archive to the current version of my sheet and found a bit of a problem I could of sworn I had solved before.  I still have some left over calculation issues for determining skill XP to skill rank conversions.

So I'm going to have to dig in and make sure the math is returning the correct lookup columns now.

If anyone wonders why I'm getting soured on traits that modify skill XP to skill rank conversions this is why.

I also realized I may have to make a presentation adjustment to my skill XP to skill rank stand alone aide linked in the first post of this thread.  I may be assuming some traits are opposed that are not meaning I may have to add more combinations.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 07 October 2013, 14:50:38
I did remember correctly which traits opposed which for my chart but did find some presentation adjustments I could make and a combination I did over look so I have corrected it and uploaded it to the first post of this thread.  So enjoy.

Now back to figuring out how to do the maths so I can return the correct column look ups so my sheet fully correctly supports all skill XP to skill rank conversions found in AToW.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 07 October 2013, 16:52:33
Okay got it figured out.

It'll be up to the user to make sure the trait values are entered correctly but the sheet now works correctly for calculating skill XP to skill rank for all combinations of Fast Learner, Gremlins, Illiterate, Slow Learner, and Tech Empathy and correctly only applies the correct modifiers to the correct skills as far as I can tell.

Link should still be the same.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: hive_angel on 08 October 2013, 10:06:32
In reference to the Free XP which is not calculated. Is is possible to add a sheet which calculates how much Free XP is left over which your sheet cannot assign and what categories those Free XP have to go to? May not be able to calculate an overall total, but at least provide a breakdown of what is left.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 08 October 2013, 11:04:44
I'll have a good think about how to pull it off.

The technical aspect is easy enough as I could just create a free XP table that also includes a lookup column for rules on how to spend it but how to present it will be something to think about.

Oh also spotted something else that needed fixing on my skill XP to skill rank chart found in the first post.  Uploading the fix here in a jiffy.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: hive_angel on 10 October 2013, 16:57:30
Have you added your latest edition containing the errors you found?
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 10 October 2013, 17:25:37
Yeah it should be uploaded.

Bad habit of mine, I keep forgetting to clarify when I have actually uploaded a fix when I post before I upload the indicated fix.

I doubt anyone noticed the error since it took a bunch of traits being activated at the same time and said traits are ones players tend to not activate.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 11 October 2013, 19:27:06
I just had a thought to make my life easier for cleaning up my sheet of my AU factions and getting alternate era support in there for factions.  It'll probably still take a while to implement since there is still tons of data entry to do and that still makes me cringe but progress!
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 24 October 2013, 00:02:11
Just an update on my part real quick.

I've let myself get rather distracted as of late working on other things so I've not been making much in the way of progress in cleaning up my sheet and getting additional era support in there.  I'll try and get back to it soon.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 25 October 2013, 00:55:17
Okay found another problem I could have sworn I already solved.

The table for looking up skill ranks bloated past the defined size for it and so there were some lookup issues because of it.

Like I said I could have sworn I had fixed that once already.  Fix has been uploaded.  Not much progress on cleaning things up and fully implementing the alternate era affiliation data since last update though I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: hive_angel on 25 October 2013, 09:21:50
Sounds good.

If you have a multi-era support is it better to place the different eras in seperate workbooks to not overload one workbook? You can always zip up multiples books for a download.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 25 October 2013, 10:27:56
I would like to keep it all in one file if I can, especially since some eras don't actually change the affiliation data for some affiliations.  But I will have to be mindful of file size at the same time.  The sheet is already just shy of 10mb.  The good news is I doubt it'll get much bigger.  The bad news is I have poor willpower in facing down all that data entry.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 20 December 2013, 14:43:12
I think I owe it to people to just say I've given up on any further refinement of this sheet.  It is not fair of me to keep any hopes up that I'll add/edit content.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 18 January 2014, 10:08:22
As I said before new feature implementation has stopped.  There are errors in data entry for some affiliations that I'm just not going to correct(should be exclusively confined to alternate era affiliation selections).  But thanks to hive_angel an error in calculations for switching affiliations was discovered and snuffed out.

Enjoy the corrections.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 04 February 2014, 23:37:07
Found and fixed another error on my own.

There was somehow a skipped line in bringing over information from the worksheet to the print page.  This caused a trait to not appear on the print sheet even if active.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 14 March 2014, 17:56:56
After last night's session with my gaming group I did come to the conclusion there was one thing I did need to absolutely change on my spreadsheet.  I needed to adjust how it displayed skill rank so that it was easier to see when a character was eligible for the Special Pilot Abilities or when issues of training came up.  So now it displays Total Rank with Link Attribute Modifiers(Base Skill Rank + Link Attribute Modifiers).  So for example if you have a Dex 7 Reflexes 7 Gunnery Mech 3 character it will display it as 5(3+2).

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: matsci on 24 March 2014, 18:03:42
Hey, Monbvol.

I've been thinking about starting up a AToW game, and found your sheet quite useful, though I have run into a rather sheetbreaking bug. For some reason, whenever I select a Field for my character, a bug adds the Lookup ID Number from the skill the XP of all my skills. This is rather silly. It might be becouse I am opening the sheet in LibreOffice, but everything else besides the Field cells works fine.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 24 March 2014, 19:42:02
Weird.

It works fine in Open Office and I don't see anything wrong in how the formulas are implemented.

For now I'll suggest re-downloading it on the off chance something got screwed up in the first download you did but in the meantime I'll see if I can get Libre Office up and running to see if there is something going on there.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 24 March 2014, 22:58:27
Okay after having to squash two viruses I'm officially giving up on trying to get Libre Office up and running for the time being.

I'm kind of stumped where the error could have come from though.  I've been over the formulas and nothing looks out of place.  *shrug*
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: matsci on 25 March 2014, 13:32:42
Okay after having to squash two viruses I'm officially giving up on trying to get Libre Office up and running for the time being.

2 Viruses?  :o Where are you downloading LibreOffice from?

I'm kind of stumped where the error could have come from though.  I've been over the formulas and nothing looks out of place.  *shrug*

Thanks for looking into the problem, though. I just downloaded a copy of OpenOffice, and it seems to work fine with open office. It's probably a subtle difference in the way both programs handle lookup.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 25 March 2014, 14:31:39
Having purged my browsing history I can't say for sure where I tried dling it from.

If it is Libre Office not understanding the formulas then that is really bizarre.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: matsci on 25 March 2014, 14:42:19
Having purged my browsing history I can't say for sure where I tried dling it from.

https://www.libreoffice.org/

Big Fancy website

If it is Libre Office not understanding the formulas then that is really bizarre.

Yeah. It works OK in Excel, Perfect in Open Office, and weirdly in LibreOffice. What makes it even more  bizzare is that LibreOffice is a fork from OpenOffice.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 25 March 2014, 16:23:30
Okay I checked it out with Libre Office and the sheet seems to be working as intended.  So I'm not sure what went wrong.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 13 April 2014, 17:03:42
I was looking at the Aging charts again because I was curious if there was a point where the negative effects of aging out weight the extra XP you'd get from making a character that old and running the numbers even at 101 years old you would get 8000 extra XP but only take a grand total of 6100 XP of negative penalties(assuming that Glass Jaw and Slow Learner stacked at each appropriate age threshold for purposes of having to buy it off).  The scary part is there is an obvious loophole to that XP penalty total.  If you decide to just have Glass Jaw and Slow Learner dealing with the consequences 2100 XP of that penalty suddenly goes away as Glass Jaw and Slow Learner can't go below -300 XP total and as such it just essentially goes away.

Assuming the penalties accrue at the same rate for 111+ as they do for 101 then it actually takes until 131 years old to out pace the extra XP with Glass Jaw and Slow Learner stacking without it'd take until 301 years old.

Figured I should share this revelation and here seemed as good a place any.
Title: Re: Monbvol's AToW sheet and other related projects
Post by: monbvol on 22 April 2014, 14:15:29
Okay found an issue with the Target Number lookup not functioning correctly.  It only really effected tiered skills but I think it works a bit better the way I'm doing it now anyway.  Have fun all.