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Author Topic: consrtuction rules?  (Read 3040 times)

captnchuck67

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consrtuction rules?
« on: 27 August 2021, 07:29:38 »
Are there rules on building units along with how long it would take to build them?Mostly looking at Naval and Aerospace. If BT wants to try and have a strategic component ,it is going to have to do that and stop being so generic.

Daryk

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #1 on: 27 August 2021, 07:48:56 »
Rules for building Fighters, Small Craft and DropShips are in Tech Manual.

Rules for JumpShips, WarShips and Space Station are in StratOps.

Rules for Primitive Jump/WarShips (they use old cores and have transit drives) are in Interstellar Operations.

monbvol

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #2 on: 27 August 2021, 11:47:07 »
That settles the how to build but not the time element being asked for.  The answer to that second is honestly rather contentious as there are no rules governing how long it takes to build something and the fluff uses 'as plot demands' and is thus incredibly unhelpful.

Daryk

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #3 on: 27 August 2021, 11:51:35 »
ISAW has unit build times, as I recall.

monbvol

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #4 on: 27 August 2021, 12:00:31 »
Unless they errated them or I'm getting forgetful in my old age they were just pay the cost and you get them and that was it.

I'll have to check the book when I get home.

Daryk

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #5 on: 27 August 2021, 12:51:18 »
Probably that, but turns have a duration last I checked.

monbvol

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #6 on: 27 August 2021, 13:02:15 »
A month if I remember right but even if it was something like say a new factory that realistically should take many months to construct the only limitation was what you can afford.

Daryk

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #7 on: 27 August 2021, 13:05:36 »
Ah... that would be MUCH too short, yeah.

Hellraiser

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #8 on: 03 September 2021, 09:32:14 »
There are lots of examples in canon, but they calculate out to be all over the place in terms of #s & tonnage in both mechs & Jumpships/Warships.

I don't believe we have ever gotten much in the way of actual DS, Smallcraft, or ASF #s.  An item or 2 maybe but not compared to Mechs & KF Drive units.

End result, no, there is no "Rule" on how long to build something.  Nor should there be really.  The diversity of answers in canon show you that no 2 factories are equal in terms of speed, quality, or # of lines producing said unit.
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monbvol

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #9 on: 03 September 2021, 11:00:32 »
About the only thing we do have solid rules for how long it takes to make something is Campaign Ops has rules for how long it takes to build a base.

AlphaMirage

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #10 on: 03 September 2021, 15:15:51 »
Your best approximation is likely in Strategic Operations (at least in the old books) for how long it takes to repair or replace something. I'd say at least double that to see how long it takes to build something from scratch.

Daryk

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #11 on: 03 September 2021, 16:51:01 »
Be sure to apply the "Factory" modifiers to those "repair" rolls, though...  ^-^

jasonf

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #12 on: 04 September 2021, 10:15:54 »
Keep in mind, too, that part of the reason the fluff is vague is because times vary a lot by factory, production line, etc. Defiance Industries on Hesperus II churns out 'Mechs way faster than most Periphery plants.

I've always interpreted a general rule for production times to be:
Mechs, vehicles, fighters, battle armor -- a couple weeks to a couple months per unit/squad
Dropships and small craft -- a few months to just over a year per vessel
JumpShips and warships -- one to four years per vessel


Daryk

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #13 on: 04 September 2021, 10:29:23 »
Those sound like reasonable guidelines to me.  :thumbsup:

victor_shaw

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #14 on: 05 September 2021, 10:05:43 »
The book "Objective Raids" Pg. 170-171 has some info on the time it takes to build a Battlemech and the process used to build them.
As for other units, I don't see them really take more time to build then their modern day versions.
« Last Edit: 05 September 2021, 10:27:48 by victor_shaw »

victor_shaw

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #15 on: 05 September 2021, 10:47:09 »
Keep in mind, too, that part of the reason the fluff is vague is because times vary a lot by factory, production line, etc. Defiance Industries on Hesperus II churns out 'Mechs way faster than most Periphery plants.

I've always interpreted a general rule for production times to be:
Mechs, vehicles, fighters, battle armor -- a couple weeks to a couple months per unit/squad
Dropships and small craft -- a few months to just over a year per vessel
JumpShips and warships -- one to four years per vessel

We know from canon that a construction "Line of Battlemech" is not an assembly line as per other types of units and that for at least the Marauder II it takes 3 months to produce 6 of them. Now even if you where to take this and say that it takes a quarter of that time to build a light mech, then it would take about 24 days or close to a month to turn out 6 light mechs or an average of a month and a half to turn out 6 mechs of variable size per line. So if we take these as the working numbers. you could produce Per line a:

Lance: in about a month
Company: in about 3 months
Battalion: in about 9 months
Regiment: in about 27 months
Now this is subject to the weight class of the mechs in question and the number of lines at the factory, but it does put in to perspective the low numbers of Battlemech regiments the factions field and how destroyed regiments tend not to be rebuild quickly or at all.

« Last Edit: 05 September 2021, 10:56:47 by victor_shaw »

victor_shaw

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #16 on: 05 September 2021, 13:24:42 »
So the rules in "Combat Operations" for "Innersphere in Flames" which "Innersphere at War" seems to be based off of, state that a faction can spend a max of 3RP per turn (month) per line to produce combat units. This seems to be the best answer to the question of units that can be produced. Now if we use the factories listed per faction which I checked is the number of lines. then we can figure out the number of combat commands that can be produced per turn.

For year 3025*
Capellan Confederation: 20 lines, 60RP per turn, Combat Command cost 124, so it takes 2.1 turns to produce.
Draconis Combine: 23 lines, 69RP per turn, Combat Command cost 131, so it takes 1.89 turns to produce.
Federated Suns: 25 lines, 75RP per turn, Combat Command cost 119, so it takes 1.58 turns to produce.
Free Worlds League: 30 lines, 90RP per turn, Combat Command cost 137, so it takes 1.52 turns to produce.
Lyran Commonwealth: 33 lines, 99RP per turn, Combat Command cost 155, so it takes 1.57 turns to produce.
Magistracy of Canopus: 5 lines, 15RP per turn, Combat Command cost 119, so it takes 7.9 turns to produce.
Outworlds Alliance: 3 lines, 9RP per turn, Combat Command cost 239, so it takes 26.6 turns to produce.
Taurian Concordat: 14 lines, 42RP per turn, Combat Command cost 119, so it takes 2.8 turns to produce.

So, in general it would take most Innersphere powers about 2 turns to produce one new combat command and for most Periphery powers a lot longer to replenish their loses.

And when compared to the info above this seems to pan-out.

*Numbers modified for current errata I forgot about :)
« Last Edit: 05 September 2021, 16:44:03 by victor_shaw »

Colt Ward

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #17 on: 29 November 2021, 15:46:47 »
Combat Ops, in their BattleTech Strategic Game gave a build time for JS/DS . . . IIRC it was based on BV, which meant it was linked to dropcollars IIRC.  So, FREX, it took less time to build a Whirlwind? class destroyer compared to a Fox, b/c of the difference in collar count.  LF Batteries also took more time I think.
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idea weenie

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #18 on: 29 November 2021, 20:07:27 »
Does the strategic rules provide any location for determining costs of buildings?  I.e. if I design a hangar using the "Tactical Operations: Advanced Rules", what would be the price for it?

Colt Ward

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #19 on: 29 November 2021, 22:02:23 »
Does the strategic rules provide any location for determining costs of buildings?  I.e. if I design a hangar using the "Tactical Operations: Advanced Rules", what would be the price for it?

Campaign Ops I think.
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idea weenie

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #20 on: 30 November 2021, 00:21:01 »
Campaign Ops I think.

Ah, found it all (I think):
TacOps:AR provides building construction rules on pages 112-141, but you have to look on page 208 for the costs (and references to the costs are not in the Index nor the Building construction section, so I put that as part of the TO:AR Errata)

Campaign Ops pages 54-55 gives building construction times (and cost per week of construction personnel/equipment)

theagent

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Re: consrtuction rules?
« Reply #21 on: 09 March 2022, 21:22:17 »
Looks like the times in Campaign Ops are for the construction of base facilities, with the 'Mech notations being the modifier for construction times to use the 'Mechs for construction duties (not actually building the 'Mechs).

Interstellar Ops basically says you can build as many Combat Commands as you have spare RPs to build.  They get deployed during the Military Develophment Sub-phase of the turn.  Each sub-phase is essentially a week long, so theoretically you can create an entire regiment in 1 month.  But I'm assuming that implies that you have the spare 'Mechs available to staff them with pilots.

As far as actually building them, the fluff varies so much because the factories vary so much as well.  Some factories are super high-tech, wonders of automation that resemble futuristic versions of our real-world automotive assembly plants (high use of robotic systems, waldos, etc.).  Some factories may involve the machining of parts as needed (advanced CNC machines all the way down to manually hand-cranked mills).  Some factories may be nothing more than pure assembly shops, where the components are built on other planets & shipped for final assembly to the "factory" -- note that the Clans may actually use this quite often, as it allows for more flexibility in the "master artisan/craftsman" mindset they prefer over the "churn" of automated systems (which the latter would also mean having a lot of extra parts stored on hand, which is viewed as wasteful to them).  And sometimes it comes down to the size of the factory.  A factory that makes a single line of 'Mechs is going to be much smaller, & have much lower production, than the vast complexes of Defiance Industries and Luthien Armor Works.

Only some of the old handbooks had numbers on them, but this is what I found:
  • Corean Enterprises's factory in Jeratha on New Avalon was a fully automated SLDF-era factory, capable of churning out 130 Valkyries/year...but was so heavily automated that supposedly the engineers running the plant forgot how the machinery works (which I find highly suspect).
  • Independence Weaponry's factory on Quentin was churning out 20 Marauders & Victors per year, but only 5 Atlas; however, it was also running at only about 50% capacity
  • KaliYama's Wasp line on Kalidasa could build 20/year, but Irian's line on Shiro III could build 31
  • Tikonov was building 90 'Mechs per year, but Grand Base was only managing 55

 

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