(Answered) Infantry Questions (Followup Questions)

[BirdofPrey]

1. Movement on pavement: The movement bonus from moving on pavement seems obvious to me, but it is listed in TO not TW, does this mean that players can't gain the 1MP bonus from pavement in tournament legal games?

2. Squad deployment:  it says on TO27 that a squad is teated as 7 troopers when using squad deployment however, with the exception of tracked infantry, the max squad size is smaller than 7 (TM145, TO324).  Can mechanized infantry still be deployed as individual squads?  If so how do you reconcile the smaller squad sizes with the 7 troop requirement of squad deployment.   Additionally, how does that rule affect platoons of factions other than the Great houses who organize their infantry differently than 4 squads of 7 troops?

2b. How does squad deployment affect any of the infantry options in TO? (mainly interested in beast mounted and, field guns)  Can field gun crews be split up and how does that work, do beast mounted infantry split between animals the same as mechanized are split between vehicle?

2b.  Oversized platoons are broken up into two sub platoons for gameplay purposes.  What affect does this have on squad deployment?  Do both sub platoons have to use squad deployment at the same time and does stacking apply to squads from different sub-platoons.

3. I have seen in TW and TO that mechanized infantry is supposed to pay 3 MP to enter heavy woods but TM145 says that heavy woods are prohibited terrain (TW42 also says vehicles are prohibited from entering heavy woods which mechanized infantry would presumably fall under).  Can mechanized infantry enter heavy woods or not?

4. According to TM 144 mechanized infantry is a way to attach vehicles to infantry without having to track them separately.  As they are still vehicles, can mechanized infantry take any of the chassis modifications listed on TO 302-303?  Are there any vehicle rules that can be applied to mechanized infantry?

5. TO 304 states that once per scenario an infantry platoon can make an attack with disposable weapons and the construction rules state that a platoon may be given one disposable weapon.    The infantry record sheet, however, has 3 lines for disposable weapons, can those other 2 lines be used to give the platoon additional disposable weapons or are they just there to take up space (or to track ammo usage across multiple scenarios)?

6. Field guns and Field artillery can carry 1 ton of ammunition, but the only thing it says about ammo types is that LB-X autocannons must use cluster munitions.  Can that ton of ammo be one of the alternate munitions described in either TM or TO and can the ton of ammo be split between different ammo types?

6b. Can field guns be used for anti aircraft fire or are infantry limited to just AA support weapons.

6c. While this would make sense to me, I understand real life logic does not always apply to Battletech for simplicity purposes.  Can beast mounted infantry tow field guns or artillery?

7. TO has an extensive list of infantry armor types, but given the stats in the table on TO 317-318 many of the types seem redundant since theres only 2 possible armor divisors and they can be encumbering or not.  In Time of War, however, these armor types are clearly different.  Granted the game at regular scales is not that detailed (there aren't multiple damage types), but are there any differences at all or are the armor choices mainly fluff in standard scales?  is there any hope of things such as ablative armor on infantry having similar affects to reflective armor on mechs (house rules aside)?

8. Paramedics can replace some or all of a squads secondary weaponry.  Does stacking a squad with 2 paramedics give the same movement penalties as 2 support weapons per squad?  What about one medic and one support weapon?

8b.  Can paramedics be combined with any of the specialized other infantry types (ie. putting paramedics in a paratrooper platoon)?

9. What other infantry options can be combined with XCT troopers?

[Welshman]

Researching

[BirdofPrey]

So how's that research coming?

Anyways I'd like to add another item to the list:

6d. Can field guns and Field Artillery be towed by a regular vehicle as external cargo while the platoon and their vehicles ride in the passenger compartment?
6di. If so, can I make a field gun/artillery platoon that's just people and guns that operates as a fixed position unless an APC comes along to haul them away (I'm thinking firebase here)

edit: Nevermind, Saw the answer in another topic.  Seems the answer is 'no'.

[Welshman]

1.       Movement on pavement: The movement bonus from moving on pavement seems obvious to me, but it is listed in TO not TW, does this mean that players can't gain the 1MP bonus from pavement in tournament legal games?

 

Answer:  Correct.  The extra movement for infantry is an Advanced Rule and as such is not a Tournament legal rule.

2. Squad deployment:  it says on TO27 that a squad is treated as 7 troopers when using squad deployment however, with the exception of tracked infantry, the max squad size is smaller than 7 (TM145, TO324).  Can mechanized infantry still be deployed as individual squads?  If so how do you reconcile the smaller squad sizes with the 7 troop requirement of squad deployment.   Additionally, how does that rule affect platoons of factions other than the Great houses who organize their infantry differently than 4 squads of 7 troops?

 

Answer:  The text refers to generic infantry platoons.  For platoons created with Tech Manual, follow the squad size deployments therein.

2b. How does squad deployment affect any of the infantry options in TO? (mainly interested in beast mounted and, field guns)  Can field gun crews be split up and how does that work, do beast mounted infantry split between animals the same as mechanized are split between vehicle?

 

Answer:  Field Gun crews and Beast Mounted infantry cannot be split into multiple squads.  All crew for the same gun, or riders of the same beast, must be in the same squad or platoon.

2b.  Oversized platoons are broken up into two sub platoons for gameplay purposes.  What affect does this have on squad deployment?  Do both sub platoons have to use squad deployment at the same time and does stacking apply to squads from different sub-platoons.

 

Answer:  It depends on the platoon in question.  Comstar/WoB platoons would break down into two groups of three 6-man squads each.

3. I have seen in TW and TO that mechanized infantry is supposed to pay 3 MP to enter heavy woods but TM145 says that heavy woods are prohibited terrain (TW42 also says vehicles are prohibited from entering heavy woods which mechanized infantry would presumably fall under).  Can mechanized infantry enter heavy woods or not?

 

Answer:  Prohibited under Tournament-Legal Rules.  Permitted under Advanced Rules.

4. According to TM 144 mechanized infantry is a way to attach vehicles to infantry without having to track them separately.  As they are still vehicles, can mechanized infantry take any of the chassis modifications listed on TO 302-303?  Are there any vehicle rules that can be applied to mechanized infantry?

 

Answer:  No.

5. TO 304 states that once per scenario an infantry platoon can make an attack with disposable weapons and the construction rules state that a platoon may be given one disposable weapon.    The infantry record sheet, however, has 3 lines for disposable weapons, can those other 2 lines be used to give the platoon additional disposable weapons or are they just there to take up space (or to track ammo usage across multiple scenarios)?

 

Answer:  They are a way to track ammo usage, and something to fill out the record sheet so it doesn’t look empty.

6. Field guns and Field artillery can carry 1 ton of ammunition, but the only thing it says about ammo types is that LB-X autocannons must use cluster munitions.  Can that ton of ammo be one of the alternate munitions described in either TM or TO and can the ton of ammo be split between different ammo types?

 

Answer:  It can be one of the alternate munition types.  The ton of ammo is not permitted to be split between types of munitions.  E.G. it must be either all armor-piercing, or all flechette, or all standard.

6b. Can field guns be used for anti aircraft fire or are infantry limited to just AA support weapons.

 

Answer:  Yes, they can.

6c. While this would make sense to me, I understand real life logic does not always apply to Battletech for simplicity purposes.  Can beast mounted infantry tow field guns or artillery?

 

Answer:  No.  If you want a more detailed answer, the animals are not strong enough to transport modern weapons 30 meters in 10 seconds and still have them ready to fire.

7. TO has an extensive list of infantry armor types, but given the stats in the table on TO 317-318 many of the types seem redundant since theres only 2 possible armor divisors and they can be encumbering or not.  In Time of War, however, these armor types are clearly different.  Granted the game at regular scales is not that detailed (there aren't multiple damage types), but are there any differences at all or are the armor choices mainly fluff in standard scales?  is there any hope of things such as ablative armor on infantry having similar affects to reflective armor on mechs (house rules aside)?

 

Answer:  That’s speculation on future rules.  However, most armor choices are indeed mainly fluff at the standard scale.

8. Paramedics can replace some or all of a squads secondary weaponry.  Does stacking a squad with 2 paramedics give the same movement penalties as 2 support weapons per squad?  What about one medic and one support weapon?

 

Answer: No.  Paramedics do not count as support weapons for movement penalties.

8b.  Can paramedics be combined with any of the specialized other infantry types (ie. putting paramedics in a paratrooper platoon)?

 

Answer:  Yes.

9. What other infantry options can be combined with XCT troopers?

 

Answer: All but SCUBA.

[BirdofPrey]

Thanks Welsh.

A few notes:
2a.  I probably could have worded that better, since you responded with the same wording (split field guns crews and animal riders) it is a mite confusing.  Just to make sure, field guns platoons and mounted infantry can use squad deployment, the caveat being they can't be split up into groups smaller than the crew needed to ride one animal or operate one gun, correct?

2b. you didn't answer my question.  I understand each sub platoon breaks into 3, 6 man formations; what I wanted to know is how sub-platoons affect stacking.  Are the sub platoons treated as completely separate formations, or can I have squads from both in the same hex without penalty?

9. XCT is compatible with mounted troops? Make way for the space whale riders!

[Welshman]

2a- Correct

2b- Each sub-platoon is considered an "unit" for the purposes of stacking. The only exception is other sub-platoons of the same platoon, which all count as a single unit. If you have four sub-platoons, from four platoons, that's four "units"

9- No comment.

[BirdofPrey]

As always thanks for your patience dealing with the myriad questions I have.

I have a question to expand on 6:
I am rereading the rules, and it seems each gun comes with a ton of ammo, not each platoon as I thought when I wrote that.  Since each field gun comes with a ton of ammo, if I have multiple field guns (which is very likely) can some of those tons be alternate ammo types (still keeping 1 ton increments)?

[Welshman]

Guns can carry alternate types of ammunition. Guns may note share ammunition. If you have two field guns, one with standard and one with precision ammunition, they may not share. Once the precision ammo gun is empty, it is out of ammo.

[BirdofPrey]

Bummer.

Thanks for the answers to my boatload of questions.

[BirdofPrey]

Hey Welsh, sorry to bug you again.  I have some more follow up questions.  I am hoping to keep things consolidated, so I appologise if I should have created a new thread entirely.

I'd like to follow up on sub-platoons and squads as well as disposable weaponry.

Squad deployment.  After reading it a few times, I am not entirely sure you havent mixed up sub-platoon and squad for the answer.  Regardless, I'd like to be 100% sure.
When creating a platoon if you are creating a platoon of more than 30 troops (for example C* squads of 30 troops or a Hegemony Century of 100 troops) you have to split them as evenly as possible into multiple sub-platoons.  Each sub-platoon moves, and fires separately and tracks damage separately.
Does each sub-platoon count as a separate unit for stacking, or is it at the platoon level (so a Level II [2 sub-platoons] or a century [4 sub-platoons] can be all in the same hex counted as one unit leaving room for another unit in that hex.  This is assuming both are subsets of the same platoon)

I notice you didn't actually answer this, but I would guess it falls under the each sub-platoon moves separately rule:
If one sub platoon uses squad deployment, are the other sub-platoons required to also use squad deployment?  Also can squads of separate sub-platoons (of the same platoon) share a hex?

The rules in Tech manual states that you should split troops as evenly as possible. With Hegemony infantry this results in 4 sub-platoons of 25 troopers each.  Unfortunately, each squad is composed of 10 troopers, so each sub platoon is 2 and a half squads.
How does this affect squad deployment?  Do you field the half squads as is, do you combine the half squds from seperate sub-platoons into 1 squad (and how does it affect stacking if sub platoons are counted as separate units?) or should we be splitting the Hegemony Platoon into 2 sub-platoons of 30 and 2 sub-platoons of 20 to avoid this problem?


My second question concerns disposable weaponry.
Is your initial answer regarding disposable weaponry a confirmation that, regardless of the number of lines on the page, you can only equip and use one disposable weapon per scenario?

It has been pointed out in another thread that all but one of the weapons that can be used as disposable weapons are listed as support.  Per normal construction rules, each squad can carry a maximum of 2 support weapons (can be modified by some TO infantry options), and if a squad carries the maximum number of support weaponry it loses 1 MP.
Do disposable weapons count against this limit (ie. a squad with 2 support weapons can't carry any disposable weapons in the support category, a squad with 1 support weapon can carry 1 disposable weapon per squad but takes a movement penalty, and a squad with no support weapons can carry 1 or 2 support weapons per squad taking a movement penalty if they carry 2) and if so how are the number of disposable weapons diminished by troop deaths (My guess is it would be platoon size divided by the number of support weapons so a standard IS foot platoon with 2 disposable weapons per squad would lose a disposable weapon for every 3 troops killed), or does every single trooper get their own disposable weapon (so a standard IS foot platoon gets 28 disposable weapons)?

(Personally, it makes more logical sense to me for each troop to carry a grenade [classifying it as standard rather than support if disposable weapons count toward support weapon limits], but for the mk1 Light AA and Dragonsbane Disposable pulse laser to be carried only by one or two troops per squad [limited as per normal support weapons], but then I'm not a developer and game balance is a sticky thing.)


Another field gun question:  In the constriction rules, it says you can use any autocannon but then lists every type except HVACs.  Can I use HVACs as field guns?

[Welshman]

Abnormal Infantry Formations:
When deploying by squads, the Marian Hegemony Infantry Platoon deploys in 10 10-man squads.  Up to two of the Marian squads can recombine into a single unit.  A third squad would push it over the 25-man sub-platoon deployment limit.

Put simply, a Marian platoon can never be deployed as a full 100-man formation.  It must either be broken into four 25-man formations, or 10 10-man formations.

Comstar and the Word of Blake have similar restrictions.


Disposable Weapons:
Disposable Weapon damage is determined by Squad.  Ammo for a Disposable Weapon is determined by how many squads are in the platoon.

Example:  Standard IS Rifle Platoon.
7-man squad carries rifles, a grenade, and a LAW.
The Platoon gets a Grenade attack and a LAW attack, each with 4 shots.  Damage is calculated as per a 7-man unit.


HVAC Field Guns: No, they are not usable as field guns .

[BirdofPrey]

Thanks for bearing with me Welshman.  Infantry aren't as simple as they initially appear.

You missed a couple of questions.  As far as stacking goes, how are sub-platoons treated: are those 2 18-man comstar sub-platoons counted as 2 units or just one, similarly are thise 4 25-man Marian. sub-platoons treated as 1 unit or 4?

Also do all sub-platoons have to use squad depoyment at the same time, or can I have say 2 Marian sub-platoons split up into 5 squads acting seperately while the other 2 sub-platoons stay as they are?

Abnormal Infantry Formations:
When deploying by squads, the Marian Hegemony Infantry Platoon deploys in 10 10-man squads.  Up to two of the Marian squads can recombine into a single unit.  A third squad would push it over the 25-man sub-platoon deployment limit.

Put simply, a Marian platoon can never be deployed as a full 100-man formation.  It must either be broken into four 25-man formations, or 10 10-man formations.

The problem I am having is how to reconcile the half a squad Marian formations have.  If we go by what Tech manual says, each Marian sub-platoon contains 2½ squads what am I supposed to do with those half squads?  If I have 2 sub platoons seperate into squads while in the same hex, I have no problems, but what if the sub-platoons are spread out?  I wouldn't think 5 men from one sub-platoon would magically teleport over to the other to the other sub-platoon where the second half of the squad is, but having a mix of 5 and 10-man squads running around feels clunky.

Now I understand the platoons can't be deployed as a single 100-man formation; Tech Manual makes that clear.  I'm a bit confused when you say I can't combine 3 squads, however, since the TM gives 30 men as the maxixumum troops in a (sub-)platoon.

[/quote]Comstar and the Word of Blake have similar restrictions.[/quote] They don't suffer this problem anyways since they get split into 2 sub-platoons with 3 6-man squads each.  This question only concerns Marian sub-platoons since each is 2½ squads.

Personally, I would recomend TM be errataed to say that marian formations shoild be split into 5 20-man sub-platoons so that squads aren't being cut in half.

Disposable Weapons:
Disposable Weapon damage is determined by Squad.  Ammo for a Disposable Weapon is determined by how many squads are in the platoon.

Example:  Standard IS Rifle Platoon.
7-man squad carries rifles, a grenade, and a LAW.
The Platoon gets a Grenade attack and a LAW attack, each with 4 shots.  Damage is calculated as per a 7-man unit.

Now you have completely lost me.  I was under the impression that everyone fired their disposable weapins at once, and that I have one shot, not that I had a number of smaller shots (ie. the damage is determined by the number of men in the platoon and the ammo is 1).   Also, I thought you confirmed we could only take 1 disposable weapon per scenario, but your example has them using 2 different weapons.

Anyways, what I wanted to clear up wasn't a damage or ammo calculation issue in and of itself since it's based on how many people carry the weapon, the question was regarding that latter point: how many peole can carry disposable weapons?  All but one of the disposable weapons are classified as support, so I (and a few others, actually) was wondering if this means I can only have 2 of them per squad rather than 1 for each person.  The other part of this is if they count toward the regular suport weapon limits (for example, if I have 2 suport weapons per squad already, am I not allowed to have them carry grenades as disposable weapons as well, or if I have 1 support weapon per squad, can only one person in each squad carry a grenade )  or if they impose movement penalties (for instance, if I give each squad 2 mk1 Light AA  as disposable weapon or a squad with a support weapon takes 1 mk1 light aa as a disposable weapon do they suffer -1 mp since those are classified as support weapons)

HVAC Field Guns: No, they are not usable as field guns .

I suspected as much.
Thanks Welsh.