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Author Topic: (Answered) Patchwork Armor and Commercial Armor  (Read 396 times)

RifleMech

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(Answered) Patchwork Armor and Commercial Armor
« on: 10 April 2020, 10:07:40 »
Tac Ops errata page 47, 80
(Version 3.03)
Tac Ops PDF pages, 280, 377, 379
Corrected Second Printing
Int Ops page 88, 114
2016 PDF
Strat Ops
2009 PDF page 190
TechManual
page 302, 315


What armors can be mounted on which units? I keep being told that BattleMechs can't use Commercial Armor yet I find nothing in the rules that they can't do so under Patchwork Armor Rules. Or any other advanced rules.

The errata on page 47 says
Quote
Armor (p. 280)
Under “Construction Rules”, replace the third paragraph with the following:
Finally, of the Advanced Armor types described here, only Modular Armor may be pod-mounted. No more than one Modular Armor item may be mounted in a given critical slot location. For torso locations, it should be specified whether the Modular Armor faces to the front or rear, and it will only protect against attacks striking that armor location. Though Modular Armor is an advanced armor type, the Armor Value provided by Modular Armor is Standard Armor (p. 205, TM). It may be mounted over any other armor type. All other armor types (except for Hardened Armor) are available to units using modular (Omni) technologies, but must be incorporated into the unit’s base configuration unless the designer is also using the optional Patchwork Armor design option (see p. 377). Hardened Armor is compatible only with standard, non-Omni units.

If all armor types are available to OMNIs, that would include Commercial, wouldn't it? And if Commercial Armor is available to OMNIs then it would be available to standard Mechs, right?

Then on page 80 of the errata there's this ruling.
Quote
Patchwork Armor (p. 377)
At the end of the third paragraph insert the following:
A unit may also not mount armor types illegal for that unit type to mount.

But it doesn't say what armors are illegal.

TacOps page 280 lists the new armors in that book and which units can use them or not. The units that cannot use the armor have NA listed for them. Int Ops page 88 does the same thing for the armors in that book.

In TacOps we have the Mixed Technologies rules page 376 which allows items to be used from different technology bases. Industrial is a different technology base than Military.  So Commercial Armor would be allowed under this rule.

Also under the Patchwork Armor Table Commercial Armor is listed as being available to all units with a 0/0 in the column for how many critical spaces taken. Only Vehicular Stealth is listed as NA under the Mech/Support Vehicle Column. Modular Armor is listed as NA under both columns as it's an item not an armor type. Furthermore, the Table makes no distinction between BattleMech or Industrial Mech, listing only Mechs. So under these rules and this table Commercial Armor should be available to BattleMechs.

The under Advanced Battle Values Page 380 it says this for armor.
Quote
ARMOR
Under TechManual rules, only ’Mechs used the ’Mech Armor Type Modifer Table. The advanced armor types made available under Tactical Operations allow other units to use alternative armor types. When calculating the Defensive Battle Rating for armor for all units except infantry, apply an additional modifer
from the Armor Type Modifer Table, at right.

TechManual page 302 says that BattleMechs and IndustrialMechs share the same method to determine BV.  The Table on page 315 also lists Commercial Armor.

Int Ops page 114 also does not proscribe Commercial Armor from being used on LAMs, saying only that Armors that take critical slots may not be used. If a LAM can mount Commercial Armor surely a BattleMech could.

Strategic Ops page 190 also says
Quote
Armor: The armor limit per location is still determined by the internal structure. Each location starts with the armor it originally had. Armor can be added or removed using the customization rules as normal (see Patchwork Armor, p. 377, TO, if different armor types are involved). Stealth Armor is only effective if all locations mount it.

So I'm not seeing anything that says BattleMechs can't mount Commercial Armor. I'm even being pointed to this ruling to prove it doesn't.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=22948.msg511583#msg511583

It doesn't say anything about Commercial Armor though. In fact everything I've pointed out says that it should be available under advanced rules. So can I mount Commercial Armor on a BattleMech?


Also that ruling hasn't appeared in the errata. If still in effect my I suggest putting a note in the TacOps Patchwork Armor Table under the Note Column for Support Vehicle Armor saying Support Vehicles Only?

If this ruling also applies to Commercial Armor on BattleMechs and Support Vehicles may I suggest that a Note be placed saying IndustrialMechs only?Although I would argue it should be Mechs only for the following reasons.

It isn't in keeping with the rules which list Commercial Armor as being available.

It would change how BV is calculated as it makes a divide between BattleMechs and IndustrialMechs.

Commercial Armor would be the only Armor Type for Mechs that BattleMechs can't use which would be kind of odd.

It would nerf lowtech BattleMechs. Why allow low tech engines but not armor?

It would also nerf FrankenMechs which by their very nature should be be able to use mixed technology from all bases, IS and Clan, Military and Civilian.

SVs have their own BAR-5 armor so don't need to mount Commercial BAR-5 Armor. 

Thanks. :)
« Last Edit: 17 August 2020, 00:03:15 by Xotl »

Hammer

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Re: Patchwork Armor
« Reply #1 on: 10 April 2020, 18:21:28 »
Wouldn't the table on TM 206 answer this.
« Last Edit: 11 April 2020, 00:01:27 by Hammer »
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RifleMech

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Re: Patchwork Armor
« Reply #2 on: 10 April 2020, 23:20:51 »
Hi

I forgot that one. Thanks.  :thumbsup:  And no it doesn't.  :( Those are standard rules. I'm asking under advanced rules. Advanced Armor rules, LowTech Mechs, Mixed Technology, Patchwork Armor, and FrankenMech Rules all allow items to be used when they normally wouldn't. So under advanced rules Commercial Armor should be available under advanced rules but I'm told no. Yet I look at the rules and it's listed as available. So is it or isn't it?

I know its not something one would really want to do but neither is putting an internal combustion engine on a mech or using Patchwork Armor or FrankenMechs and so on. It's one of those things you do because you have to because Commercial BAR-5 armor is better than no armor at all. Having Commercial Armor or even Support Vehicle Armor be not available seems inconsistent and contrary to the rules and universe.

Xotl

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Re: (Research) Patchwork Armor
« Reply #3 on: 17 August 2020, 00:02:13 »
You can only use armours specified as being allowed.  It not saying you can't is not permission.  Anything not listed is not permitted, and per the errata is also specifically illegal with regards to armour.

No commercial armour.  At the same time, I'd gladly allow it as a house rule for battlemechs because of that classic CityTech story.
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http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1219.0

RifleMech

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Re: (Research) Patchwork Armor
« Reply #4 on: 17 August 2020, 07:35:13 »
You can only use armours specified as being allowed.  It not saying you can't is not permission.  Anything not listed is not permitted, and per the errata is also specifically illegal with regards to armour.

No commercial armour.  At the same time, I'd gladly allow it as a house rule for battlemechs because of that classic CityTech story.


Hmm. Seems kind of odd that Industrial Mechs can mount more armor types than BattleMechs. But they don't have movement either so. Weird. Okay. Thanks :)

Thanks  :thumbsup: Classic CityTech story?  ???

Thanks  :beer:

 

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