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Author Topic: (Answered) Patchwork Armor and Penetrating Critical Hits interactions  (Read 412 times)

monbvol

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Tactical Operations Page 377
Total Warfare page 206-7
And page 187 of A Time of War also possibly applies.

Irregardless of the ruling for what armors are allowed on what units that is currently pending there does seem to be possibilities for creating mismatches between the BAR rating of Armor and as page 187 of A Time of War indicates the BAR of the Internal Structure.

The section on page 206 of Total Warfare specifically dealing with the Armored Chassis modification does pretty clearly indicate that part of the reason you check for Penetrating Criticals at all is due to the standard of which the underlying Internal Structure was built to in the first place as what the BAR in question changes how the Armored Chassis modification behaves against Penetrating Critical checks.

Using the Patchwork Armor rules and referencing page 187 of A Time of War keeping the above in mind it seems entirely possible to create a mismatch between the BAR of armor on Support Vehicles and their underlying BAR of their IS.

So yeah there are two possible mismatches.

Higher BAR Armor than IS.

And

Lower BAR Armor than IS.

So how do these two mismatches alter the Penetrating Critical rules on page 206 Total Warfare?

Related question for Armor Piercing Ammunition and how these mismatches impact those mechanics?

By my readings my best guess is to just use the higher BAR, except for Armor Piercing which I would guess you always use IS BAR to decide when that gets the +2, to determine when to check for Penetrating Criticals.  Any other methodology may require some pretty substantial errata.

My thanks in advance.

[edit]included possible Armor Piercing ammunition interactions that would be impacted by this as well[/edit]
« Last Edit: 16 August 2020, 23:58:53 by Xotl »

monbvol

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Missed one.

Best I can tell indeed my proposed changes in the errata discussion thread would close this up nicely and allow AToW to be ignored.

monbvol

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Since last bump was late I know this may seem early.

At least the Errata Discussion thread has provided clarification that certain less fringe interactions just are not possible since the last bump.

monbvol

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Bump.

I must admit Patchwork Armor and Penetrating Critical hits may go into my personal category of rules more trouble than they are worth the more I try and grapple with them in trying to find my own more definitive answers.

Xotl

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Can you link to this other discussion?
3028-3050 Random Assignment Tables -
Also contains faction deployment & rarity info and Quirk lists.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1219.0

monbvol

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From the Errata Discussion Thread from nckestrel that provided clarification:

the vast majority of open question threads are open because we each have only limited time and willpower.  previous rulings are rulings into explicitly said otherwise.  you can't have a player toss out a previous ruling by opening a question and demanding we answer it now (or any time period) or whatever ruling isn't valid.

which open question thread are you referring to?

Relevant statement highlighted.

The rest of the context should be obtainable from that point on but I'd be happy to give additional links if it'd be easier on you.

Xotl

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Okay, I have to be honest with you: this is a wall of text that also spreads across multiple books and threads.  Our eyes tend to glaze over and we move to other issues in cases like this.

Is there any way you can, taking into account whatever has happened since you posted, make a short post, concise as possible and self-contained as possible, that sums up your issue?
3028-3050 Random Assignment Tables -
Also contains faction deployment & rarity info and Quirk lists.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1219.0

monbvol

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Looking through it all again I think we have come to certain consensuses without a ruling actually being rendered and my sanity challenged mind has just now noticed it.

In the interests of those who may read this thread I think I shall go ahead and just do a re-cap of the conclusions that have been arrived at:

AToW is to be disregarded in cases like this.  Paul has said close enough to this that unless I grossly misunderstood him I feel confident that this stands.

As far as I know Paul's 2013 ruling that Patchwork Armor does not provide a loophole to mount armor otherwise unavailable to a unit still stands, which closes off a few possible weird interactions believe it or not.

I do maintain there need to be some wording changes to the Penetrating Critical hit rules to make it clearer that armor needs to exist on the location for Penetrating Critical checks because as it stands now the way I read them you still check even if damage goes straight to IS which lacking any other guidance while being aware of AToW page 186's rule granting a BAR to IS caused one heck of a pointless trip down a rabbit hole.

Answering my own questions then:

No it does not actually seem possible to create mismatches under TW/TM/TO rules and thus does not much with AP specialty ammunition when using Patchwork Armor and interacting with Patchwork Armor.

So xotl I think we're done in this thread as the only outstanding item may be the Penetrating Critical rules themselves and that is more a TW thread and only if I'm incorrect about the intention being that armor is supposed to exist for when to check for them.

My thanks.

Xotl

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Roger, and thanks.
3028-3050 Random Assignment Tables -
Also contains faction deployment & rarity info and Quirk lists.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1219.0