Register Register

Author Topic: (Answered) Smoke dissipation check timing after placement  (Read 1213 times)

ArcFurnace

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 82
I am working from a 2008/first printing copy of Tactical Operations. While I do not see errata for the passage I am uncertain about, it might have changed in the newer two-volume version(s) anyway. In this version, the rules for smoke dissipation and drift are described on pages 47-48. The passage in question is: "Players only start to determine drift and dissipation for smoke during the End Phase following the turn in which the smoke was initially placed."

Clarification request: if smoke is placed during the Weapons Phase (e.g. by firing Smoke SRMs), does the resulting smoke cloud make its first check for dissipation during the End Phase of the turn in which the weapon attack occurred, or the turn after that? I initially assumed it was the latter (acting similarly to the ruling for the turn in which missile generated smoke is guaranteed to dissipate), but after reading the wording more carefully I managed to confuse myself into just enough uncertainty that I felt asking for clarification of the rule's intent would be simpler.

Alternately, is the "check for dissipation" rule supposed to apply to weapon-generated smoke at all? The passage on page 48 describing its application to a cloud of smoke from smoke LRMs implies it should be, but that may have changed as well.
« Last Edit: 22 January 2022, 19:56:17 by Hammer »

ArcFurnace

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 82
Re: (Research) Smoke dissipation check timing after placement
« Reply #1 on: 28 July 2021, 18:14:12 »
Bump.

ArcFurnace

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 82
Re: (Research) Smoke dissipation check timing after placement
« Reply #2 on: 08 January 2022, 00:27:04 »
This post is primarily a bump.

However, I now have access to Tactical Operations: Advanced Rules (2020 printing). The rules for smoke are now on pages 45-46. The sentence in question, now on page 45, remains unchanged.

For possible clarification, I think my confusion is related to the use of the phrase "only start to determine", implying a delay before checking for dissipation the first time. However, as written, it seems that the first dissipation check is made during the End Phase of the turn in which the smoke was placed on the map, since said End Phase is "following" the turn in which the weapon-delivered smoke was placed on the map. Is this as intended, or should it be the End Phase of the turn following the smoke being placed on the map, i.e. the End Phase of the turn after the turn in which the smoke was placed?

Hammer

  • Numerorum Malleo
  • Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3458
    • MegaMek Website
Re: (Research) Smoke dissipation check timing after placement
« Reply #3 on: 22 January 2022, 19:56:06 »
pg 45 - Smoke Drift/Dissipation

"Players only start to determine drift and dissipation for smoke during the End Phase following the turn in which the smoke was initially placed."

Keywording is the bolded part.
MegaMek Projects Wiki
Bug Trackers
MegaMek Tracker
MekHQ Tracker
MegaMekLab Tracker
New Units and RAT's aren't added until after the 2 month release moratorium is passed.


ArcFurnace

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 82
Re: (Answered) Smoke dissipation check timing after placement
« Reply #4 on: 22 January 2022, 21:19:24 »
To confirm, it's the End Phase of the turn in which the smoke was placed? Because the phrase "following the turn" was itself part of my initial confusion.

Paul

  • dies a lot at the Solaris Melee Challenge!
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14893
Re: (Answered) Smoke dissipation check timing after placement
« Reply #5 on: 22 January 2022, 22:48:08 »

For example, a fire starts in a Woods hex on turn 4 during the Weapons Phase.
You would check for spread in the End Phase of turn 5. (And then every turn after that)
The solution is just ignore Paul.

ArcFurnace

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 82
Re: (Answered) Smoke dissipation check timing after placement
« Reply #6 on: 23 January 2022, 12:57:13 »
For example, a fire starts in a Woods hex on turn 4 during the Weapons Phase.
You would check for spread in the End Phase of turn 5. (And then every turn after that)
This matches the "Fire and Smoke Resolution Sequence" described on page 44. However, I was asking about smoke deployed directly during the Weapons Phase (e.g. using smoke missiles), not smoke generated by a fire.

If a smoke cloud was generated using smoke missiles on turn 4 during the weapons phase, do you check for drift and dissipation of said smoke cloud during the End Phase of turn 4, or turn 5?

The resolution sequence actually looks like it clears things up a bit, implying that it would be turn 4, since the smoke generated during the weapons phase is an "existing smoke cloud" at the beginning of said End Phase, while smoke from a fire is added later in the sequence, after the checks for drift and dissipation.

Paul

  • dies a lot at the Solaris Melee Challenge!
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14893
Re: (Answered) Smoke dissipation check timing after placement
« Reply #7 on: 23 January 2022, 14:28:03 »
I'm not sure where you're getting confused.

"players only
start to determine drift and dissipation for smoke during the
End Phase following the turn in which the smoke was initially
placed"

So, turn 5.
The solution is just ignore Paul.

ArcFurnace

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 82
Re: (Answered) Smoke dissipation check timing after placement
« Reply #8 on: 23 January 2022, 15:23:40 »
So, turn 5.

Thank you for providing a definitive answer.



For reference, the confusion was as described in my second post in this thread. The wording is, as you say: "the End Phase following the turn in which the smoke was initially placed".

The End Phase occurs at the end of a turn, i.e. following the turn, so it was possible to interpret this as indicating that dissipation checks should begin in the End Phase of Turn 4 if the smoke was placed on Turn 4 - "[the End Phase] [following the turn] [in which the smoke was initially placed]".

Possibly it could be phrased as "A smoke cloud does not check for drift or dissipation on the turn it was initially placed", or similar. This is especially relevant, as it overrides the Fire and Smoke Resolution Sequence (which otherwise might plausibly see a weapon-delivered smoke cloud as an "existing smoke cloud" in the End Phase of the turn it was placed, and therefore indicate that you should check for drift and dissipation).
« Last Edit: 25 January 2022, 10:25:05 by ArcFurnace »