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Author Topic: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra  (Read 128870 times)

Starfury

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1410 on: 21 October 2021, 21:04:46 »
They're probably producing anything they can, adding upgrades or new production lines later. We know that they have active production lines for the following

Locust
Snow Fox Omni
Nexus/Star Python
Cazador
Urbanmech
Tolva
Phoenix Hawk
Rhino
Surtur
Wolverine
Thunderbolt
Awesome
Zeus
Banshee.

Based on the MUL, I'm assuming some of the 3025 units are being converted to C variants as parts become available to be added to second line units, while the 3050 tech units like the Surtur or the Banshee 5S also go to PGCs, adopted HDF forces, and Grunt Galaxies to fill holes.  That also seems to he the same SOP for the non SL era Wobbie units.  The Seekers seem to be converting their older units to Clan or early Clan Tech as much as possible, retaining only SL era designs they don't have Clan upgrades for or need for historical inspiration from. 

I'm curious what the SE is going to do with the Wolverine line on Antwerp.  Is it going to become a full up Surtur conversion, a new design created by a Trial of Grievance filed against the name, or something else? And do we see eventual Clan upgrades for the rest of the mechs along with the vehicles and the ASFs?

Vehicles: Tiger, the Vedette, AC/2 carrier
Aerospace fighters: the Centurion ASF, the Thrush, and the Vulcan ASF Interesting times indeed.


CJC070

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1411 on: 21 October 2021, 21:38:34 »
They may keep it as the Wolverine just to show how far they have stepped away from the Clans.  Or rename it the Conjurer to avoid the dual names some Clan mechs are infamous for.

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1412 on: 21 October 2021, 22:49:21 »
They are still producing IS tech, even on new production lines, though.
See the Star Python. You have an IS version and a Clan tech version.

I thought the Star Python is the Clan tech version while the Nexus name was kept for the IS tech produced version. They do have their hands full with political, economic and social stabilization, but in the long run it's logical they'll harmonize their technology around Clantech and refit/mothball the existing IS tech stuff isn't it?

Stormy

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1413 on: 28 October 2021, 18:55:51 »
That logic seems to make sense - it’s certainly taken up residence in my head canon.

Mostly because I want a use-whatever faction. 😎

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1414 on: 29 October 2021, 01:21:25 »
Imperial diversity, not just in peoples but in military units :thumbsup:

Empyrus

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1415 on: 29 October 2021, 23:39:18 »
How likely would it for the Scorpion Empire to rob raid Sea Fox planets or convoys for loot 'Mechs and other equipment?
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Doc Swift

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1416 on: 30 October 2021, 00:22:49 »
Perhaps to issue a trial.

Empyrus

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1417 on: 30 October 2021, 00:40:38 »
Oh, right, forgot still Clan enough to do Trials.
But this makes me think that the Clans essentially have formalized piracy system already...

Just thinking that the Chainelaine Isles, Chaine Cluster specifically, where some Sea Fox holdings are located, is the closest external source of ClanTech. Figure there's stuff that's hard to build, and raiding Trialing keeps skills fresh. Plus they might have shiny new OmniMechs not otherwise available. Or other stuff.


Another thing, what's the Scorpion source of HarJel? Traded from the Sea Foxes? Found a new supply? Gonna make do without?
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1418 on: 30 October 2021, 02:14:33 »
The Scorpions produce Clantech, just not uniformly. They can just make do without harjel.

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1419 on: 30 October 2021, 06:52:18 »
Seems the recent Rec Guides are more liberal regarding the Coreward Deep Periphery. The Empire gets a lot of new info.

There's Prosoma War Works on Valencia making Hellions. APGRs, iHMLs etc. The configs are deadly against Periphery opponents.

Bordello Military Goods was apparently renamed to Imperial BattleMechs and builds Warhawks. Even better, the Empire is self-sufficient and doesn't need the Foxes. The configs are a good indicator of Imperial tech levels. Nice configs, mating plasma rifles with Clan PPCs with a tar comp is awesome. We can mass produce those in addition to superchargers, iHLLs, CASE II, Watchdogs, PPC Capacitors. A bit disappointed that the Heroic-level Magon Scott wasn't included in the notable section. Can't imagine that captain would be Heroic.


rebs

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1420 on: 30 October 2021, 07:14:24 »
The Scorpions produce Clantech, just not uniformly. They can just make do without harjel.

The Sea Foxes won't let a Clan get by without Harjel.  Once they hear the Scorpions are without it, they will come knocking!

Empyrus

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1421 on: 30 October 2021, 09:44:05 »
The Scorpions produce Clantech, just not uniformly. They can just make do without harjel.
Clan Battle Armor, like the Elemental, which the Scorps still use, very much require HarJel.
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1422 on: 31 October 2021, 03:56:42 »
The Sea Foxes won't let a Clan get by without Harjel.  Once they hear the Scorpions are without it, they will come knocking!

It would make them a unique country not to get dependent on Sea Foxes. As it is, the Sea Foxes are being shoehorned into every handyman role for current CBT, and being reliant on outsiders is always a bad thing.

Let the Empire keep its Warhawks and other native designs and be self-reliant. It IS actually self-reliant, with that population and number of worlds with only the Snake Homies or other Blakist remnants as a threat.
« Last Edit: 31 October 2021, 04:01:29 by ArkRoyalRavager »

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1423 on: 31 October 2021, 03:58:07 »
Clan Battle Armor, like the Elemental, which the Scorps still use, very much require HarJel.

Nope. Imperial BA design can always switch to IS chassis with Clan armour and equipment. Harjel is just useful for RPG aspects.

Empyrus

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1424 on: 31 October 2021, 04:09:00 »
And HarJel has benfits beyond RPGs:
With TacOps rules, HarJel means UMUless-BA doesn't need breach checks underwater (rare situation but it is there) and it has effect on toxic atmospheres.
With Campaign Ops, HarJel increases the chance a "destroyed" Battle Armor Trooper actually survives. It is extremely useful stuff.

It is extremely unlikely there will be IS-chassis/Clan-equipment BA published in the future for general use. The few that exist are either prototypes or pure second line designs (the Surat solahma suit, the unpublished Longinus C). The Clans have always seen HarJel Benefits as much greater than the greater mass requirement.
Even the Inner Sphere is moving to HarJel chassis: Gray Death Strike Suit (though that one still uses Inner Sphere-grade armor if i recall correctly).

In order to keep Elementals, Undines and other Clan BA in use: need a source of HarJel.

Plus HarJel is needed for Clan WarShips (and JumpShips), i would assume the Scorps will want to maintain their WarShips.

EDIT I forgot the Oni (Fire resistant armor) and Cavalier II (unpublished, Clan stealth armor) but those are rare exceptions.
In any case, the point was, the HarJel in Battle Armor is far too useful in-universe to not have it. The Scorps will want that moving onward.
« Last Edit: 31 October 2021, 04:35:30 by Empyrus »
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1425 on: 01 November 2021, 06:26:45 »
Negligible benefits. The Empire now has a huge population pool with no major war and the vast majority of BT combat takes place in normal terrain instead of underwater or toxic atmosphere.

The main benefit is to wean off Fox meddling and foreign economic control, and the Empire is one of the few factions that can do that without suffering withdrawal symptoms like the IS factions.

Though it is extremely unlikely to have IS-chassis/Clan-equipment BA, that is always the writers' discretion. Anything can be spun into something, just say the Scorps had to make do without Harjel due to their isolation since ejection from the Homeworlds, hence IS-chassis/Clan-equipment BA.

rebs

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1426 on: 01 November 2021, 08:01:39 »
You really don't like the life-saving benefits of hargel.  That's fine, to each their own.  But if it saves the lives of our brave Elementals when they are grievously wounded by Battlemech-scale weaponry, I am in favor of it 100%. 

And if not the Sea Foxes, then some other source. Perhaps if the Scorpions keep looking, they may get lucky and find their own source of the stuff.

After all, it's kind of BS that the Sharkfoxes are the only source of it for hundreds of years.
« Last Edit: 01 November 2021, 09:08:40 by rebs »

Empyrus

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1427 on: 01 November 2021, 08:04:25 »
Elementals (as in the phenotype) surviving even grievous wounds compared to Spheroid BA is incredibly useful advantage for battle armor. Battle armor is extremely risky and vulnerable thing. Manpower is always the limiting factor, and experienced manpower even more so. HarJel means more Elementals survive, meaning overall more experience battle armor forces. And experience trumps other factors greatly.
There is a reason Wolves used to place cadets into Dire Wolves for their Trial of Position, because that greatly increased their chances of surviving and succeeding, lending them overall greater base of acceptable warriors quality warriors, something that has most certainly contributed to their overall success as a Clan.

It is not "negligible" benefit.
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Agathos

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1428 on: 01 November 2021, 10:59:28 »


After all, it's kind of BS that the Sharkfoxes are the only source of it for hundreds of years.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind at all if someone (maybe even the Scorpions?) found a new source of HarJel outside of the Homeworlds and Twycross. Declaring one system to be the sole source of a strategic resource... look, I love Dune but the Battletech universe has never worked that way.

Empyrus

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1429 on: 01 November 2021, 11:35:59 »
Dune has some justification in that its anti-technology universe means synthesizing a complex molecule may indeed be beyond their capabilities (at least until later events) but within BattleTech, i find the idea of there not being synthetic HarJel substitute weird.
While the Clans were stuck in their Homeworlds, sure. They were hidebound traditionalists, and the Sea Foxes had iron grip on the supply. And they weren't that numerous so eh, let's just go with it.
But nowadays, in the Inner Sphere and Periphery... yeah, the monopoly should be broken either with artificial substitute or even an improvement, or more natural sources.
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CJC070

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1430 on: 01 November 2021, 13:24:24 »
Dune has some justification in that its anti-technology universe means synthesizing a complex molecule may indeed be beyond their capabilities (at least until later events) but within BattleTech, i find the idea of there not being synthetic HarJel substitute weird.
While the Clans were stuck in their Homeworlds, sure. They were hidebound traditionalists, and the Sea Foxes had iron grip on the supply. And they weren't that numerous so eh, let's just go with it.
But nowadays, in the Inner Sphere and Periphery... yeah, the monopoly should be broken either with artificial substitute or even an improvement, or more natural sources.

With all the balls being juggled around right now HarJel production or a substitute may have just fallen through the cracks.  One item to note that the substitute was found in an uninhabited planet in Twycross.  It could be that the Scorpions have not found it because they have only started expanding their empire before the Hanseatic Crusade and the absorption of 29 planets with resistance from within and without can be a bit distracting.

Doc Swift

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1431 on: 01 November 2021, 13:29:19 »
I'll state here that I considered the HarJel issue when writing the Crusade, and solved it pretty quickly. I don't remember if I mentioned it in anything published. I'll offer a hint: my solution involves an absorption.

Empyrus

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1432 on: 01 November 2021, 14:22:01 »
Interesting. And so very vague  ;D

Good to hear you guys ain't forgetting details like that though. Seen some franchises running into "oops, we forgot that"... That isn't encouraging ever.
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rebs

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1433 on: 01 November 2021, 14:33:38 »
It's an issue to me because I like my Elementals!

But if they solve it somehow, cool.  If not, the Empire will soldier on without it.

Doc Swift

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1434 on: 01 November 2021, 14:38:21 »
It draws from canon history. Nothing random.

rebs

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1435 on: 01 November 2021, 15:09:02 »
My guess is the Scorpions *could* have Absorbed an Aimag.

Mostly because they would have nothing to do with the Home Worlds.

Even if I'm wrong, I like my theory.  Conflict between the Scorpion and the Sea Fox would be epic, as we have discussed earlier in this thread.

Rainbow 6

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1436 on: 01 November 2021, 15:45:55 »
My guess is the Scorpions *could* have Absorbed an Aimag.

Mostly because they would have nothing to do with the Home Worlds.

Even if I'm wrong, I like my theory.  Conflict between the Scorpion and the Sea Fox would be epic, as we have discussed earlier in this thread.

Or the Empire expands to control of the Chainelane Isles.

Empyrus

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1437 on: 01 November 2021, 16:00:13 »
Does Chaine have HarJel source? IIRC the Sea Fox's Inner Sphere source was on Twycross.
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1438 on: 01 November 2021, 16:07:11 »
It draws from canon history. Nothing random.

Its a longshot, bu it involves the "Blood in the water" story in MW Guide to the Clans?
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Doc Swift

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Re: The Scorpion Empire : Plus Ultra
« Reply #1439 on: 01 November 2021, 16:44:26 »
 :-X