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Author Topic: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition  (Read 11956 times)

Stormlion1

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #120 on: 03 October 2021, 15:40:23 »
Might also be how much dust and dirt were pumped into the atmosphere. Lot of dust could cause colder temps because that dust would stay in the atmosphere and block sunlight. This colder for a decade. It is the definition of nuclear winter originally.
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idea weenie

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #121 on: 03 October 2021, 15:41:56 »
It isn't uncommon in BT, there are/were a lot of planets with fragile ecosystems.

But there might of course have been something special in the cargo of the DropShip.

Salted bombs that were designed to cause ecosystem damage?  The material from the bomb might only cause damage for half a year, but if repairing from that damage can take over 9 years that could work.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #122 on: 03 October 2021, 17:44:39 »
But by the description of the Shrapnel story it seemed like the issue was the radioactive drive of the dropship that created the mini nuclear winter. In any case I don't see either as a cause for that disaster. After all there are a lot of dropships falling to planets in novels and none provokes anything other than a fireball.

Don't get me wrong, I liked the story and I thing it created a very interesting scenario for the Aurigan Coalition, tense, and not very hopeful for its future.

Radiation in and of itself doesn't cause nuclear winter. And also... umm... fusion drives aren't that kind of radioactive.

A ship that hasn't finished its deceleration could smack the planet pretty hard and throw up a hefty cloud of particulates though.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Stormy

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #123 on: 04 October 2021, 00:55:26 »
I wonder what happens if you throw dropship specs into one of those asteroid impact simulators...

Dragon Cat

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #124 on: 04 October 2021, 07:14:02 »
I wonder what happens if you throw dropship specs into one of those asteroid impact simulators...

I'm not an expert but I would have thought it would be more density than Mass or speed to throw up that amount of dirt

Most DropShips would be like a fly hitting a windshield of a moving vehicle
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Stormlion1

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #125 on: 04 October 2021, 08:12:54 »
I'm not an expert but I would have thought it would be more density than Mass or speed to throw up that amount of dirt

Most DropShips would be like a fly hitting a windshield of a moving vehicle

It would count on what the dropship is hitting. A dusty plain of fine dirt and sand. And gravity would have a few things to say. A lighter gravity world would allow that fine particulates to go higher and stay up longer.
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #126 on: 04 October 2021, 19:14:40 »
I'm not an expert but I would have thought it would be more density than Mass or speed to throw up that amount of dirt

Most DropShips would be like a fly hitting a windshield of a moving vehicle

Velocity covereth a multitude of sins.

If you just drop a dropship from high orbit (no starting velocity), that will still be equivalent to kilotons of energy, but like you imply, it's not moving fast enough. It'll break apart and spread that energy out over a wide area before it can do anything significant.

If it's close enough on its final approach when things go wrong, then the same result. Still not moving fast enough.

The further out it's sabotaged, the more velocity it has. If it has enough velocity, it doesn't have a chance to break apart before the massive fireball it creates reaches the ground and kicks up material. Maybe a lot of material.

And by the time a dropship would normally be beginning its deceleration leg on the way into this system (based on oublished transit times) it would be moving at about 1% C. Not tens or hundreds or even thousands of meters per second, but literally millions.

I assume the failure occurred later in the deceleration leg and the ship had bled off a good part of that velocity, just because if it failed earlier it might have screwed up the approach so badly it missed the planet. But still, there's a lot of energy to potentially smack the planet with.

Even a fly can go through a windshield if it's moving fast enough.


Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Stormy

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #127 on: 04 October 2021, 23:57:46 »
Interesting things that I've learned playing with earth impact simulators:

  • If you drop a Fortress-class sized rock on a city, you'll destroy it.
  • The density of the Fortress-class dropship is the biggest barrier to making craters (even going ridiculous velocities, it breaks apart in the atmosphere).
  • That said, with ridiculous velocities, you can make an absolutely prodigious fireball in the atmosphere with one, assuming that it hits at speed.

Stormlion1

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #128 on: 06 October 2021, 19:11:27 »
Interesting things that I've learned playing with earth impact simulators:

  • If you drop a Fortress-class sized rock on a city, you'll destroy it.
  • The density of the Fortress-class dropship is the biggest barrier to making craters (even going ridiculous velocities, it breaks apart in the atmosphere).
  • That said, with ridiculous velocities, you can make an absolutely prodigious fireball in the atmosphere with one, assuming that it hits at speed.

From the game cut scene, 17:30 or so.
https://youtu.be/q_b5Rl0JvG8

It looks like it came down from just below the Karman Line and impacted into hills. Probably threw up a lot of dust.
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Stormy

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #129 on: 07 October 2021, 00:49:16 »
Yeah, I've seen the scene (a few times)...

...I just thought it was interesting that it essentially amounts to Rule of Cool territory. I'd never thought to model it before.

Colt Ward

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #130 on: 09 November 2021, 17:05:35 »
Interesting things that I've learned playing with earth impact simulators:

  • If you drop a Fortress-class sized rock on a city, you'll destroy it.
  • The density of the Fortress-class dropship is the biggest barrier to making craters (even going ridiculous velocities, it breaks apart in the atmosphere).
  • That said, with ridiculous velocities, you can make an absolutely prodigious fireball in the atmosphere with one, assuming that it hits at speed.

Bolded for emphasis . . . that is a known flaw with the designs- basically ye olde FASA was not great with math.  IIRC cray laughed the mass vs dimensions off saying a dropship was akin to a beachball.  You could say the dropship impact results would be realistic IF the dropship volume to mass ratio was realistic.
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carlisimo

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #131 on: 17 November 2021, 13:24:32 »
I'm not an expert but I would have thought it would be more density than Mass or speed to throw up that amount of dirt

Most DropShips would be like a fly hitting a windshield of a moving vehicle

It’s energy that kicks up dirt, and energy is proportional to the object’s mass and the square of its velocity.  Density plays an indirect role; if it’s denser, it’ll have a smaller projected area so it’ll lose less velocity due to air resistance.  The density of the atmosphere plays into that as well. 

I looked up Skylab and it was several times more dense than a Fortress despite being flimsy and unlandable.  That’s the density issue Stormy and Colt are talking about.  It was small (85 tons) and fell from orbit, so no surprise that it didn’t do a whole lot. 

For what it’s worth, the meteor that created Meteor Crater in AZ is estimated to have weighed 200,000 to 300,000 tons.  A Fortress is 6,000.  When I played the game I got the feeling that the dropship had slowed down before being infected, so I’m skeptical about this whole thing.  I would’ve gone with something like, “...and lo, the dropship did fall onto the planet’s water vapor emitter, and a Star League artifact was lost, and the grain fields of [continent] did revert to frozen tundra.”  But I admit, the Fortress causing direct harm is more dramatic.

Elmoth

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #132 on: 17 November 2021, 17:12:25 »
Make it explode like a current nuclear bomb (but clean, so we do not have incovenient radiation at the point of impact) and the problem is saved as well.

MDFification

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Re: Fall of the Aurigan Coalition
« Reply #133 on: 22 November 2021, 20:45:17 »
Given the Aurigan Coalition's worlds were colonized after the restoration war/during the Star League era, it's predecessor (the Aurigan Trade Partnership) is noted to exist shortly after Star League, and Aurigans in the games speaking favorably of Star League and Ian Cameron (atypical for Periphery dwellers, especially in their neck of the woods) and the presence of a SLDF cache I think there's a case to be made that the Reach was settled during Star League by the Terran Hegemony.

That... might also go a ways towards explaining why the Concordate is so quick to assume hostility from the Coalition, and why it's got better ties with the Magistracy. Old baggage.

 

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