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BattleTech Game Universe => The Periphery => Topic started by: Baldur Mekorig on 14 May 2021, 09:04:09

Title: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 14 May 2021, 09:04:09
Last thread hit the limit, but as always, we strive to reach for another one!

ONWARD MY LEGIONS! FOR THE GLORY OF ALPHARD!
Title: Re: Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite domum!
Post by: Adacas on 14 May 2021, 09:24:42
To greater Glory of the Marian Hegemony !!  Nam qui Barbari delendos reges eiecerat promptum omni origins
Title: Re: Mars Rising Marian Hegemony V: Bárbari ité Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 14 May 2021, 09:35:45
Fresh topic, new start.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 14 May 2021, 20:51:25
Ave, Caesar!

Nova Roma Victoria!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 May 2021, 10:35:01
Well, waiting for the next Recon Guide this Friday and discarding the Turkina who think we have a new mech, versions of an existing mech or another IIC model of clanner origin?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 17 May 2021, 11:44:13
I try not to speculate on it.  I'm still of a mind we're not going get get any variants of our own.  No idea what we'll be able to procure through trade/salvage though.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 17 May 2021, 12:37:42
Locust maybe? Who knows....
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 May 2021, 14:01:17
Locust maybe? Who knows....

Locust or some other slight could be that it appears occurring in the Hegemony in the Rec Guide although I don't know, I in the next one maybe we will see that some new mech appears, new version or IIC that happens to swell the list of the MUL Hegemonic
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Geont on 17 May 2021, 14:07:58
Anthony Scroggins showed on his Patreon Locust IIC. IMHO Locust (IIC) is a good guess for this week RecGuide.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 May 2021, 14:24:18
We will see at the moment the only thing that is known is the Turkina because it is the cover of the Rec Guide itself, but if the Locust IIC appears, it could be that it appears, although there are several more that Scroggins has released and they have not yet appeared
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 17 May 2021, 19:00:32
Sadly, the only sure thing with what we get is always the Periphery General list :(
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Starfury on 18 May 2021, 01:03:57
Well, we do have some nice refits like the Jagermech 6H with the LB-2s and large lasers. Thee Goliath 2 and 6H for fire support or fun with rocket launchers is a nice investment, and the in between Centurion from TRO Irregulars is fun.  And Recguide 15 gave the Caesar more Thunderbolts to smite the enemies of the Hegemony with.  Gaining access to the Centurion Maximus from Battletechnology would be an awesome stroke of luck and salute to the old crew.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 18 May 2021, 01:44:51
Well, we do have some nice refits like the Jagermech 6H with the LB-2s and large lasers. Thee Goliath 2 and 6H for fire support or fun with rocket launchers is a nice investment, and the in between Centurion from TRO Irregulars is fun.  And Recguide 15 gave the Caesar more Thunderbolts to smite the enemies of the Hegemony with.  Gaining access to the Centurion Maximus from Battletechnology would be an awesome stroke of luck and salute to the old crew.

Thunderbolts are awesome, so that hasn't changed much.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 18 May 2021, 02:36:24
Well, we do have some nice refits like the Jagermech 6H with the LB-2s and large lasers. Thee Goliath 2 and 6H for fire support or fun with rocket launchers is a nice investment, and the in between Centurion from TRO Irregulars is fun.  And Recguide 15 gave the Caesar more Thunderbolts to smite the enemies of the Hegemony with.  Gaining access to the Centurion Maximus from Battletechnology would be an awesome stroke of luck and salute to the old crew.

What's a Centurion Maximus?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 18 May 2021, 09:31:57
Well, we do have some nice refits like the Jagermech 6H with the LB-2s and large lasers. Thee Goliath 2 and 6H for fire support or fun with rocket launchers is a nice investment, and the in between Centurion from TRO Irregulars is fun.  And Recguide 15 gave the Caesar more Thunderbolts to smite the enemies of the Hegemony with.  Gaining access to the Centurion Maximus from Battletechnology would be an awesome stroke of luck and salute to the old crew.

The issue is that we still do not know beyond any comment when passing what the Factorys of the Hegemony manufacture. We know that we do Locust and Commando nothing else, then we have over time several Refits such as those already mentioned and others such as the Withworth and Catapult H, but we have an informative silence post 3085 regarding mech and aero since 3077, we have info about what was produced in Tanks and BA but little else, the inclusion of the Militiamech the only thing that has given us is a Trooper for the Militias, the Mars Cadre and occasional Privatters
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 18 May 2021, 09:51:00
What's a Centurion Maximus?

From Battletechnology #15. A Centurion Frankenmech modified by a ex-Oberon bandit. 75tn, 4/6, 300 XLFE, 15tn of STD armor,  GR w/2tn ammo in RA, LRM/10 with AIV in LT, 1tn of ammo in LT with CASE, also CASE in the RT, and 4xMPL (2xLA, 1 CT and 1 in CT(R).
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 18 May 2021, 10:13:52
That Nice Mechs in weight resembles my Tribune, although mine has other things
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Elmoth on 18 May 2021, 10:18:32
75 tons does not look much like a Centurion...
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 18 May 2021, 10:37:28
That is why, in a version of the mech that was made in a campaign directed by the mech, it has a similar head but there the similarity ends, then it is different, the image is in my post of my Fanmade TRO in the Fan Art post
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 18 May 2021, 15:39:46
75 tons does not look much like a Centurion...

Centurion is not a image, but a state of mind.  ;D

BTW, this is Adaca´s Tribune.
(https://i.imgur.com/oa1Y7vc.jpg)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 18 May 2021, 15:43:54
That's the Tribune TRB-5H, the 2H has some extra protectors on the shoulders
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 18 May 2021, 20:27:27
From Battletechnology #15. A Centurion Frankenmech modified by a ex-Oberon bandit. 75tn, 4/6, 300 XLFE, 15tn of STD armor,  GR w/2tn ammo in RA, LRM/10 with AIV in LT, 1tn of ammo in LT with CASE, also CASE in the RT, and 4xMPL (2xLA, 1 CT and 1 in CT(R).

Thanks man. That's a nice Mech, like an upsized version of Kai's Yen Lo Wang with MPLs.

The Tribune Mech is the perfect image of a big Centurion
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 19 May 2021, 11:26:18
Two minis shipped.  My century is almost done, just need to get ahold of a marauder and a centurion.

Not sure what to get for either.  Also that Tribune is nice.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 19 May 2021, 17:04:40
We will have to wait for it to come out on Friday and there will be less, and less than a month for IlClan
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 21 May 2021, 09:41:30
Could anyone see the new Rec Guide?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Geont on 21 May 2021, 15:24:17
Could anyone see the new Rec Guide?
Yes, MH got new Locust, LCT-7V.

EDIT: Correction, two variants, LCT-7V (2xMagShot, 1MXPL) and LCT-7V2 (Light PPC, 2xERSL).
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 21 May 2021, 15:43:04
Wiii, two versions of the same mech produced by the Hegemony? I die dead
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 21 May 2021, 15:43:52
I die dead

 ;D :D
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Geont on 21 May 2021, 15:50:22
7V is produced by Bergan and 7V2 is mentioned as a basic weapon swap so I assume that Bergan does it too.

EDIT: My bad, it seems I misread and thought that one plant of Bergan is situated in MH.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 21 May 2021, 15:58:55
7V is produced by Bergan and 7V2 is mentioned as a basic weapon swap so I assume that Bergan does it too.

EDIT: My bad, it seems I misread and thought that one plant of Bergan is situated in MH.

Ugh bad luck I thought we were finally in the Rec Guide
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 21 May 2021, 16:39:52
Well here's to Rec17.  To which I'll forget about until the Discord advertises it in eight channels because I probably have the awareness of a gnat.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 21 May 2021, 17:38:54
7V is produced by Bergan and 7V2 is mentioned as a basic weapon swap so I assume that Bergan does it too.

EDIT: My bad, it seems I misread and thought that one plant of Bergan is situated in MH.

You got my hopes high Geont, for a moment at least. But no, the only mention of the MH is to be a mook faction again. They even did not used the correct term. Its no Lance, but Century.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 21 May 2021, 17:46:40
If unfortunate that they do not even know the correct term of the Marian unit, they also do not seem to know what is written about laws of the Marian Hegemony that people of Marian citizenship cannot be made slaves, they could lose their titles and honors and go down from patrician to plebey but not sold as slaves
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 21 May 2021, 17:56:21
Nevermind.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 22 May 2021, 06:56:28
If unfortunate that they do not even know the correct term of the Marian unit, they also do not seem to know what is written about laws of the Marian Hegemony that people of Marian citizenship cannot be made slaves, they could lose their titles and honors and go down from patrician to plebey but not sold as slaves

I see the Century/Lance mistake is already up in the errata thread, might be worth adding the slaves information.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 22 May 2021, 07:00:01
You got my hopes high Geont, for a moment at least. But no, the only mention of the MH is to be a mook faction again.

It is now canon that Canopians are so deadly in war that their planetary militia can defeat veteran legionaries. Next the Caesar might even have lorica segmentata, living on top of a tower with a lidless eye as his personal emblem.

In a desperate time such as getting invaded on two fronts, Marian leadership can still spare trained MechWarriors for slave life, nevermind the canon contradiction.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 22 May 2021, 08:34:57
Nevermind.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 22 May 2021, 09:19:36
Hence my first paragraph was in Sarcasm Mode.

I'm sure anyone who knows how valuable MechWarriors are, especially in the Dark Age, would know not to treat them as expendable slave material.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Sharpnel on 22 May 2021, 09:31:46
Hence my first paragraph was in Sarcasm Mode.

I'm sure anyone who knows how valuable MechWarriors are, especially in the Dark Age, would know not to treat them as expendable slave material.
Unless, of course, the Locusts belonged to a century from the Cohors Morituri.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 22 May 2021, 09:51:19
Unless, of course, the Locusts belonged to a century from the Cohors Morituri.

Only if it was needed to send the Suicide Squad to a target.  Irony is Morituri who didn't die and failed are already dead men.  They'd just get reassigned or executed most likely unless they survive long enough to be pardoned.  Not Legio VI plebs/possibly patrician citizen mechwarriors.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 22 May 2021, 09:52:01
They were VI Legio.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: GreekFire on 22 May 2021, 09:55:40
I'll be checking to see if this passage can be slightly changed.
As always, if you see something that you believe is an error, please post it to its respective errata thread.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 22 May 2021, 09:57:30
I'll be checking to see if this passage can be slightly changed.
As always, if you see something that you believe is an error, please post it to its respective errata thread.

Now that I know it's there I will chime in constructively.  Thanks Greekfire.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 22 May 2021, 14:34:04
Turaglas has already posted the suggestion that they change from selling them as slaves to sending them to the Cohors Mortuori, which I think is perfect, an option to add would be that they lose their title of Patricians, and if we look at corporal punishment that they Give them a good whipping, mark them and send them to the Mortuori ideas that come to me mixing discipline of the Roman Legions with the laws of the Marian Hegemony.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Moonsword on 24 May 2021, 10:15:18
=== MODERATOR DIRECTIVE ===

Take the 'Mech upgrade discussions to the BattleMech subforum under the Fan Designs board.  It does not belong in this part of the forums.

To facilitate that, the discussion has been moved for you (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/re-mars-rising-marian-hegemony-v-barbari-ite-domum!/).
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 24 May 2021, 11:27:56
Well seeing that the Rec Guide 16 the only thing that it has brought is ignorance about the hegemonic setting, and in the writing it makes us appear like cobblestones without a brain, I do not count the LCT-3M because we already had it, we will have to wait until the REc Guide 17 to see if a crumb falls out or if they make us appear like hopeless rompers or something that is manufactured but seeing that they have not even commented on something about a local design of two models that we know are manufactured as the Locust and the Commando
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 24 May 2021, 14:49:14
As disappointing as it is, the only surprise I found that actually fits is that Legio VI kept run down locusts with how often their mechs were in a dismal state of disrepair.  Granted you'd think the proxy invasion would have changed that with parts and supplies or breathing room from the Capellans.

Back to it though, there are barely any noteworthy Periphery references in general apart from some minor Randis, Canopian, and Taurian content.  Which is a given, it's a Sea Fox (lol) perspective guide focusing on core designs in the IS for House and Clan bringing old to new again.  Nothing in it really pops out at me so far in general.  I wouldn't expect the Marian manufacturing to get a mention in it nor am I going to be upset because I don't expect significant content Periphery bound for some time.  Except maybe with the Capellan vs Clans and the attached Canopian forces.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 24 May 2021, 15:10:25
As disappointing as it is, the only surprise I found that actually fits is that Legio VI kept run down locusts with how often their mechs were in a dismal state of disrepair.  Granted you'd think the proxy invasion would have changed that with parts and supplies or breathing room from the Capellans.

Back to it though, there are barely any noteworthy Periphery references in general apart from some minor Randis, Canopian, and Taurian content.  Which is a given, it's a Sea Fox (lol) perspective guide focusing on core designs in the IS for House and Clan bringing old to new again.  Nothing in it really pops out at me so far in general.  I wouldn't expect the Marian manufacturing to get a mention in it nor am I going to be upset because I don't expect significant content Periphery bound for some time.  Except maybe with the Capellan vs Clans and the attached Canopian forces.


Your conclusion is more than possible, the Fluff VI Legio thing bothered me more the ignorance of Marian laws and formations than the ridicule of those Locust

As for mentions of the periphery, I would not be surprised if there were little or no mentions in the Rec Guie, perhaps in that year 3151 there were some mentions in Ilclan's book but I estimate that few since it is more oriented to the reactions of the houses to the Earth's fall into the hands of the Wolves
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 24 May 2021, 16:34:34

Your conclusion is more than possible, the Fluff VI Legio thing bothered me more the ignorance of Marian laws and formations than the ridicule of those Locust

As for mentions of the periphery, I would not be surprised if there were little or no mentions in the Rec Guie, perhaps in that year 3151 there were some mentions in Ilclan's book but I estimate that few since it is more oriented to the reactions of the houses to the Earth's fall into the hands of the Wolves

I'm not mad about at Legio VI's scouting lance being in rough shape.  It was a surprise they followed FM3145 when the rest of the entry wasn't done with terminology or history in mind.  That it was Marian scout century at all is filler, they were showcasing that Locusts are fragile and we just happened to be it.  Like sure, the Marians went into two theaters without preparing for an actual conflict or for ground to hold, or were written to have any common sense.  Would it sound feasible all the resources they got into attacking the Tamarind forces the Capellans meant they'd also get parts to get tertiary legions repaired fully? 

Who knows.  Short of correcting the terminology which we've done to death, it's not worth caring about until Ilclan finally makes headway.  The Recguides are working on short word counts as it is.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 24 May 2021, 17:21:21
Surely, even IlClan we won't have anything of importance from Fluff Marian except this they took out.
The maintenance of the Legio is very curious because except for the VI Legio that had a low maintenance in comparison but it was nothing similar in the other Legio that were at 90/100% of their capacity or even more.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 25 May 2021, 01:21:22
Apart from what happened to V, I don't know anything. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 25 May 2021, 02:48:27
Surely, even IlClan we won't have anything of importance from Fluff Marian except this they took out.
The maintenance of the Legio is very curious because except for the VI Legio that had a low maintenance in comparison but it was nothing similar in the other Legio that were at 90/100% of their capacity or even more.

They are using the VI Legio unit rules for disrepair from FM3145. Although it's ridiculous that it's still in that state 5 years after that book.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 25 May 2021, 06:10:11
They are using the VI Legio unit rules for disrepair from FM3145. Although it's ridiculous that it's still in that state 5 years after that book.

Evidently Legio III still suffers wide morale problems decades later.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 25 May 2021, 06:41:20
Although that is still plausible(there is another IS unit with long-term morale issues), keeping your front line units "run-down" in a life-or-death war is absurd, especially when the MHAF could re-form a lost Legio but have another existing Legio shorted of supplies.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 25 May 2021, 08:04:28
I'd say that's being vague and deliberately careful not to wash in significant losses on either side.  It might be foreshadowing a much more important conflict in the future if anything.  Might take a year or two.  I just realized there were dissidents in the Wolf ranks wanting to rejoin the FWL thanks to Recguides and you obviously have the Canopus-Andurien situation waiting to pop open.

Biggest casualty loss is a Legion that for all intents and purposes, was just sentence filler as it didn't exist for three books.  The rest seem to be Tertia and Auxilia, which just screams filler to me.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 25 May 2021, 09:14:03
As Baldur Mekorig noted, the Hegemony is being treated as a mook faction.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 25 May 2021, 15:35:07
I don't feel like we have mustaches large enough for that.  Nor are they green.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 25 May 2021, 20:07:21
They need a "bad" fool and incompetent apparently when no Legion is "Regular", all or most are Veterans and only one with supply problems, theoretically Legions with Discipline, Veteran and Very good Material but inexplicably they behave like idiots, their commanders according to the same Field Manual are the most experienced in combat, tactics and strategy of the periphery, the only conclusion is that a sacrificial lamb was needed
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 25 May 2021, 23:17:21
Yeah. Don't worry. With Daoshen fixated on taking Terra, the neoFWL and Andurien will soon have plenty of prime territory in the other direction to conquer. Canopus will be distracted and a Marian counterattack will drive them out at the least.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 26 May 2021, 02:09:44
They need a "bad" fool and incompetent apparently when no Legion is "Regular", all or most are Veterans and only one with supply problems, theoretically Legions with Discipline, Veteran and Very good Material but inexplicably they behave like idiots, their commanders according to the same Field Manual are the most experienced in combat, tactics and strategy of the periphery, the only conclusion is that a sacrificial lamb was needed

Well, they still act experienced.  I'm going to pretend the ratings are flat for context here.  So, they retreated after fighting protracted withdrawals against superior numbers.  When encircled in Tamarind borders they knew when to break out and were able to hold worlds that Tamarind hasn't retaken yet.  However, no amount of confidence should strip you of the common sense knowing the entire FWL could turn around and overrun you if it absolutely wanted to.  I'm not overly a fan of this Capellan scenario mainly because I hate proxy opfors and know once you finish your objective you'll be discarded even faster than pmcs and mercs are.  It would have made more sense and, probably would have been cheaper to hire pirates to false flag (this setting seems to trope in BT) the Marians and Tamarind and just let natural animosity take over.  This would have opened up more chances to finally introduce a written Caesar again since Julius in a narrative and try diplomacy with the factions around like his wife from the Rim Commonality. 

Part of an issue with this contrivance of expanding into multiple theaters is overstepping operational effectiveness.  Intel should know sending unprepared and ill equipped forces east aren't going to be able to hold out simply because of basic attrition.  As well as major factions can just buy up every magically available merc and zerg them in if they can't fill in native regiments. 

Yeah. Don't worry. With Daoshen fixated on taking Terra, the neoFWL and Andurien will soon have plenty of prime territory in the other direction to conquer. Canopus will be distracted and a Marian counterattack will drive them out at the least.

Well, it also means the FWL can overtly support cutting off the Hegemony before focusing on Andurien.  The Canopians might have gotten mauled by the Highlanders soaking up for the Capellans but they're not stretched to the point they need to withdraw. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Elmoth on 26 May 2021, 02:29:47
The thing is that the MH is not that powerful. It is by periphery standards, but the number of legions it has is limited (regardless of the quality or lack thereof of its equipment). The MH has grabbed A LOT of territory in the last century, but it's legions have not expanded accordingly, basically because the grabbed territory is periphery quality, not triple A planets. I think the number of legions should be somewhat larger (or the number of canopian regiments lower) but the main problem is that, that the size of the military is small, so a long war is problematic. It is effective in a blitzkrieg, but it is a force that cannot stand a war of attrition.

If that makes it into a mook faction or not depends on your POV. I dislike the MH because of its slaver and falcon-like abuse of conquered populations trappings. Otherwise I would consider it to be a great faction worth playing.

To me. For being a mook faction they have been enjoying quite some time in the sunlight Inthe last 100 years. Compare that to how the FWL a supposedly core faction, fared. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 26 May 2021, 05:36:56
Well, it also means the FWL can overtly support cutting off the Hegemony before focusing on Andurien.  The Canopians might have gotten mauled by the Highlanders soaking up for the Capellans but they're not stretched to the point they need to withdraw. 
I meant the neoFWL and Andurien might both go for a land grab in Liao space if they throw most of the CCAF against Terra.

The thing is that the MH is not that powerful. It is by periphery standards, but the number of legions it has is limited (regardless of the quality or lack thereof of its equipment). The MH has grabbed A LOT of territory in the last century, but it's legions have not expanded accordingly, basically because the grabbed territory is periphery quality, not triple A planets. I think the number of legions should be somewhat larger (or the number of canopian regiments lower) but the main problem is that, that the size of the military is small, so a long war is problematic. It is effective in a blitzkrieg, but it is a force that cannot stand a war of attrition.

If that makes it into a mook faction or not depends on your POV. I dislike the MH because of its slaver and falcon-like abuse of conquered populations trappings. Otherwise I would consider it to be a great faction worth playing.

To me. For being a mook faction they have been enjoying quite some time in the sunlight Inthe last 100 years. Compare that to how the FWL a supposedly core faction, fared. :)
It's down to the direction they choose to write.

The Marians didn't treat conquered populations like the Falcons. On the contrary, Julius tried hard to integrate Illyria and Lothario. It was the double factor of the Blakists inciting revolt and Cassius' brutal response that drove the Lothians away.

With respect to the original FWL, it was in the limelight from 3035-3067, then the neoFWL from 3139-3150.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 26 May 2021, 06:53:26
The thing is that the MH is not that powerful. It is by periphery standards, but the number of legions it has is limited (regardless of the quality or lack thereof of its equipment). The MH has grabbed A LOT of territory in the last century, but it's legions have not expanded accordingly, basically because the grabbed territory is periphery quality, not triple A planets. I think the number of legions should be somewhat larger (or the number of canopian regiments lower) but the main problem is that, that the size of the military is small, so a long war is problematic. It is effective in a blitzkrieg, but it is a force that cannot stand a war of attrition.

If that makes it into a mook faction or not depends on your POV. I dislike the MH because of its slaver and falcon-like abuse of conquered populations trappings. Otherwise I would consider it to be a great faction worth playing.

To me. For being a mook faction they have been enjoying quite some time in the sunlight Inthe last 100 years. Compare that to how the FWL a supposedly core faction, fared. :)

Nevermind.  Gonna shorten it down a lot so I sound less like a sleep deprived madman.

I disagree on the limelight and other points.  Marians have recovered and nosedived from the Jihad and a secession where as the FWL fractured in a civil war and was reformed, while outlasting a two-part invasion, with pet clanners who can handwaive narrative conflicts by throwing a warship at them.  They are doing spectacularly at the moment by comparison compared to the Marians since the Jihad.  Battle armor and conventional arms upgrades are great, but they don't compare in anyway to that of the lack of manufacturing specifications we've been griping about for who knows how long on mechs.  The relative scope from Great House to Medium/major periphery power is obvious, but we are also talking in relevant terms of a province or other periphery powers.

Troop wise we're okay.  None of the periphery realms are at a level that can take on a full great house.  Rereading SF can gleam insight into the tactical filler blunder we have: Two legions, IV and VI split off from Tamarind and attacked the RC and Magistry for whatever ingenious reason.  Legio V was destroyed because of an ambush while it was too green.  Legio I (minus the tertia cohort which is kia) and the Morituri still in reserve while II and III are fighting the massed bulk of mercs and Tamarind forces between Illyria and the contested Tamarind worlds captured.  So we spread too thin in a short time.   

Also going to say that the context of 3025 to post 4th succession wars the BT morale compass is relative and as you said factions are based on perspective, but I believe that is just what shade of morale grey you think someone is.  When you read into the MH the amount of raids since the nation legitimized from a pirate kingdom sort of slows down, and slavery laws are regulated similarly to the Clan's indentured servitude of bondsmen.  You should be able to tell the nuances from being a freed Plebian in the MH or ranking out and up to warrior in a clan.   Everyone raids in this setting, piracy to mercenaries to House and clan invasions is a moot opinion to stand a chair leg on.

Lastly, the MHAF learned not to mistreat planets they conquered from Julius.  The Lothian uprising and secession was from the Jihad after the bombings and the Wobbies and culminated with a different direction going along with the trend of enhancing the diverse backgrounds of periphery minor factions.  This has had the unfortunate consequence of somewhat stunting the Taurians and Marians development wise.

I meant the neoFWL and Andurien might both go for a land grab in Liao space if they throw most of the CCAF against Terra.

I dunno why Andurien would go after Liao space but I don't know a lot still.  I'm not really sure what the political goal of the FWL once the Andurien/Regulan situation is resolved but my guess would be stabilization and maybe arms buildup in response to the Wolf Empire becoming Ilclan.

I suspect the hinted Wolf worlds who want to return to the FWL from the recguide might instigate a counter invasion, who knows.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 26 May 2021, 08:35:49
The Marian campaign is only a sideshow for the neoFWL. Periphery realms generally survive because they aren't as attractive as IS planets nor are they worth the cost of invading. There's no lack of enmity between the Successor States. Historically, the Capellans were getting continuously carved up by both the FWL and Suns. Andurien's political marriage with Centrella notwithstanding, they still hate Liao, just without the means to express that hate.

The Clans on the other hand, especially now with an actual ilClan, is not a risk the neoFWL is willing to take. They've seen what happened to Melissa Steiner II. The Foxes have deep ties with the Wolves. If it comes down to war, they might back their own people and simply expand their Protectorate at the expense of their former clients in the neoFWL.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 26 May 2021, 09:28:32
The thing is that the MH is not that powerful. It is by periphery standards, but the number of legions it has is limited (regardless of the quality or lack thereof of its equipment). The MH has grabbed A LOT of territory in the last century, but it's legions have not expanded accordingly, basically because the grabbed territory is periphery quality, not triple A planets. I think the number of legions should be somewhat larger (or the number of canopian regiments lower) but the main problem is that, that the size of the military is small, so a long war is problematic. It is effective in a blitzkrieg, but it is a force that cannot stand a war of attrition.

If that makes it into a mook faction or not depends on your POV. I dislike the MH because of its slaver and falcon-like abuse of conquered populations trappings. Otherwise I would consider it to be a great faction worth playing.

To me. For being a mook faction they have been enjoying quite some time in the sunlight Inthe last 100 years. Compare that to how the FWL a supposedly core faction, fared. :)


100 years of expansion? Lothario is independent, only Illyria remains and a few more worlds, that the Hegemony does not expand its legions is the sole responsibility of the authors, if you read the fluff all the Caesars want to do it, it has been invested in it but it is never achieved, that is a decision of the authors and nothing else.

The conquered populations have the same rights as the citizens of the hegemonic central worlds, they elect senators and representatives to the House of People, in the case of the Illyria worlds it has Senators since 3068, and the same Blantleff and Maximilian, the former worlds. marik since 3075 have Senators in the House of Alphard.

I think your idea about the brutality on the conquered populations is what the Rebels Lotharians and the Canopians say in the fluff, being Citizens for voting Senators from that date, no member of those planets can be enslaved as the Marian Law says according to what published in MPS, and I do not change that later, the only slaves are prisoners of war and captures by raids and nothing else, the rest is propaganda of a state that is dedicated to trafficking in women as a way of life
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 26 May 2021, 09:34:16
The Marian campaign is only a sideshow for the neoFWL. Periphery realms generally survive because they aren't as attractive as IS planets nor are they worth the cost of invading. There's no lack of enmity between the Successor States. Historically, the Capellans were getting continuously carved up by both the FWL and Suns. Andurien's political marriage with Centrella notwithstanding, they still hate Liao, just without the means to express that hate.

The Clans on the other hand, especially now with an actual ilClan, is not a risk the neoFWL is willing to take. They've seen what happened to Melissa Steiner II. The Foxes have deep ties with the Wolves. If it comes down to war, they might back their own people and simply expand their Protectorate at the expense of their former clients in the neoFWL.


I doubt that the Foxes move troops and if they expand their protectorate it is at Marik's request to make them more members of the House, I see them benefiting more by selling equipment to Marik to take worlds from the Wolf Empire or to try to take worlds of the Terrestrial Corridor from the Falcons in that new emerging Chaos March
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 26 May 2021, 14:28:17
I was under the impression the Foxes were almost entirely autonomous from each other?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 26 May 2021, 14:34:15
I was under the impression the Foxes were almost entirely autonomous from each other?

There are different fleets that manage their businesses as they see fit, some associated with Marik, others go on their own, I think
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 26 May 2021, 15:01:33

100 years of expansion? Lothario is independent, only Illyria remains and a few more worlds, that the Hegemony does not expand its legions is the sole responsibility of the authors, if you read the fluff all the Caesars want to do it, it has been invested in it but it is never achieved, that is a decision of the authors and nothing else.

The conquered populations have the same rights as the citizens of the hegemonic central worlds, they elect senators and representatives to the House of People, in the case of the Illyria worlds it has Senators since 3068, and the same Blantleff and Maximilian, the former worlds. marik since 3075 have Senators in the House of Alphard.

I think your idea about the brutality on the conquered populations is what the Rebels Lotharians and the Canopians say in the fluff, being Citizens for voting Senators from that date, no member of those planets can be enslaved as the Marian Law says according to what published in MPS, and I do not change that later, the only slaves are prisoners of war and captures by raids and nothing else, the rest is propaganda of a state that is dedicated to trafficking in women as a way of life

Handbook: Major Periphery States pg 155 says offspring of slaves or pows only.  As well as how slaves are to be treated. 

I still don't have the stuff during the Jihad and after though, if anyone would like to tell me the names of the sauces with them that'd be swell.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 26 May 2021, 23:06:46
It seems that we will add a couple of designs from the Rec Guide 16, the LCT-5S and the LCT-7V at least for now, the 3M that we already had on the list and appears in the Rec Guide also apparently
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Geont on 27 May 2021, 02:40:05
I was under the impression the Foxes were almost entirely autonomous from each other?
They are in its area of commerce control. Sometimes, due to political changes, there are overlaps of these areas (neoFWL is a prime example, Spina and Skate Khanates due reunification of FWL). But they are all still under the control of SeaFox Khan. There was an attempt of one Khanate to achieve full independence but was resolved.


I doubt that the Foxes move troops and if they expand their protectorate it is at Marik's request to make them more members of the House, I see them benefiting more by selling equipment to Marik to take worlds from the Wolf Empire or to try to take worlds of the Terrestrial Corridor from the Falcons in that new emerging Chaos March

It's hard to say how would Sea Foxes (more precisely Spina Khanate) reacted to request from the FWL government to aid in taking these exFWL worlds from Wolf Empire. Especially if Alaric demanded that they act against it. They are still loyal to Clans.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 27 May 2021, 05:24:06

100 years of expansion? Lothario is independent, only Illyria remains and a few more worlds, that the Hegemony does not expand its legions is the sole responsibility of the authors, if you read the fluff all the Caesars want to do it, it has been invested in it but it is never achieved, that is a decision of the authors and nothing else.

The conquered populations have the same rights as the citizens of the hegemonic central worlds, they elect senators and representatives to the House of People, in the case of the Illyria worlds it has Senators since 3068, and the same Blantleff and Maximilian, the former worlds. marik since 3075 have Senators in the House of Alphard.

I think your idea about the brutality on the conquered populations is what the Rebels Lotharians and the Canopians say in the fluff, being Citizens for voting Senators from that date, no member of those planets can be enslaved as the Marian Law says according to what published in MPS, and I do not change that later, the only slaves are prisoners of war and captures by raids and nothing else, the rest is propaganda of a state that is dedicated to trafficking in women as a way of life
True. It is afterall the authors who decide who does what, what happens to who etc.

Reading about Julius' painstaking efforts to integrate Lothario and Illyria gives a positive image that the Hegemony was really trying to get legit and build a tolerant nation.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 27 May 2021, 05:26:48

I doubt that the Foxes move troops and if they expand their protectorate it is at Marik's request to make them more members of the House, I see them benefiting more by selling equipment to Marik to take worlds from the Wolf Empire or to try to take worlds of the Terrestrial Corridor from the Falcons in that new emerging Chaos March

If they attempt to play Alaric out, they might find themselves destroyed. The Foxes are highly vulnerable to a Bearding The Shark 2.0-style campaign.

Taking worlds from the Falcons would be out of the question. They only want strategic worlds as business or factory enclaves, basically they are acting like a Multi-National Corporation in Space.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 27 May 2021, 05:33:49
I guess it goes to whomever gives the best offer.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 27 May 2021, 08:02:52
True. It is afterall the authors who decide who does what, what happens to who etc.


Except, apparently, what the Caesars want. I guess they write themselves.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 27 May 2021, 09:20:28
Naaa, those are from the writers, the Caesars reveal a certain lack of imagination, beyond Julius and Sean that with their baseness and alliances of dubious category, we have not had a Caesar like people, nor a Trajan, nor a Hadrian, nor a Marco Aurelio, not a Tito Vespaciano and much less an Augustus, with an intelligent Cesar like any of those options the Hegemony would be much better
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 27 May 2021, 13:58:05
Except, apparently, what the Caesars want. I guess they write themselves.

That's not how it works.  That's not how any of this works.  That's even more convoluted and contrived than Abbadon's 13 Crusades being retconned for the sake of narrative to make him look like a competent Commander and not a decade old meme.

Unrelated note: I just got the xbox MW5 and now I've spent an unnecessary amount of time painting Legio II.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 28 May 2021, 17:08:08
Since we are going to the case is that neither Cesares nor Generales nor anything that exemplifies the level of excellence of the MHAF that says Field Manul 3145
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 28 May 2021, 18:55:17
Excellence is a... stretch in the writing of this context.

On to new and fun things, I've been running around as Legio II in a game they don't exist.  I've called my mercs Cohors Sagittariorum for MW5.  Currently planned to dive from the LC to FWL to visit Alpbard but I want to get cash and my rank up first in career mode.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 31 May 2021, 12:58:29
Already thinking about the next Rec Guide, there will be more inner sphere designs than Clan as happened in the REc Guide 15 or will it be more Clanner like 15? In any case the doubt is we will continue to touch inner sphere units or something clanner of more than 40 tons?

And then what do you think will appear from the periphery in that one year that IlClan will talk about the entire IS and Periphery before heading to the area around Terra?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 31 May 2021, 13:49:34
No idea on either.  Dunno how many mechs are left to do honestly. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 31 May 2021, 14:49:42
From what they say in the post of the Rec Guide, there is still a good lot of fundamentally 3050/2750 and 3055 of the Inner Sphere and quite a few second line clans, it is more rumored that the Bane would come out in the next
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 31 May 2021, 15:15:00
...Hopefully we get that super missile boat bane for other factions.

Not gonna hope for more Periphery mention for IS/Clan mechs though.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 31 May 2021, 16:48:31
...Hopefully we get that super missile boat bane for other factions.

Not gonna hope for more Periphery mention for IS/Clan mechs though.

Some more mechs are going to fall, almost certainly the most common IICs as happened with the Griffin IIC and the Vixen.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 01 June 2021, 14:44:25
Not sure how clan surplus circulates this far out in the boons but I'm trying not to be pedantic over how space economics, trade, and scrap circulate.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 01 June 2021, 15:08:08
The clanner equipment that reaches us at least could be part Salvage, part small direct sales from Sea Foxes, part sales from third party sales.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 01 June 2021, 18:04:37
When did we get the capacity to maintain clan tech mechs?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 01 June 2021, 18:09:12
When did we get the capacity to maintain clan tech mechs?

Its not mentioned, but there is a very small number of clantech mechs appearing in the Periphery general RATs, and that can be blamed on the Sharks. Also things like the Vixen is fluffed as beign sold to the Periphery.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 01 June 2021, 19:40:30
As they already told you, maintenance can be a problem but both the Vixen and the Fighter that old but omni figure in our MUL so they must be quite common to see, idem the Griffin IIC Standard, it would be interesting to see how many second-line Clan mechs are seen in high numbers in the Periphery those could surely fall into our MUL
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 02 June 2021, 05:40:59
Now I want to see a Fox jumpship story of going to the Marian Hegemony to see the reactions of alien and sldf anachronistic clanners meeting the alien and anachronistic Nova Romans. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 02 June 2021, 08:21:00
Like any smart businessmen, the Foxes would include maintenance and upgrade contracts to whatever sales they make to their customers, including the Marian Hegemony.

From what they say in the post of the Rec Guide, there is still a good lot of fundamentally 3050/2750 and 3055 of the Inner Sphere and quite a few second line clans, it is more rumored that the Bane would come out in the next

The Jade Phoenix and Amarok would probably be in the last or penultimate Rec Guide. Callisto and others would probably be in the rules section for ilClan or whatever book after it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 02 June 2021, 08:56:42
Like any smart businessmen, the Foxes would include maintenance and upgrade contracts to whatever sales they make to their customers, including the Marian Hegemony.


IIRC, there are mentions of that, and more, in the lore.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 02 June 2021, 09:09:57
Like any smart businessmen, the Foxes would include maintenance and upgrade contracts to whatever sales they make to their customers, including the Marian Hegemony.

The Jade Phoenix and Amarok would probably be in the last or penultimate Rec Guide. Callisto and others would probably be in the rules section for ilClan or whatever book after it.

After IlClan and from August to November another batch of Rec Guides will be released so there will be more mechs
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 03 June 2021, 05:40:30

IIRC, there are mentions of that, and more, in the lore.

Yeah. A prominent example would be Petr Kalasa doing the sales pitch for the Savage Wolf to the Wolf Hunters and how Anastasia Kerensky could keep it in top condition through heavy fighting.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 03 June 2021, 05:42:13
After IlClan and from August to November another batch of Rec Guides will be released so there will be more mechs

That's a definite. 5 Mechs a volume stretches everything out for a very long time.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 03 June 2021, 08:45:43
I guess life is still at hurry up and wait then.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 03 June 2021, 09:47:06
To that, let's add the Sharpell N ° 5 that maybe we will throw a little more equipment with a little luck
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 04 June 2021, 07:41:23
The situation doesn't look good in both ground and space.

With luck the Canopians and neoFWL won't deploy their warship fleets, because the Marian aerospace has no way to counter them.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 04 June 2021, 08:22:38
Tamarind did lead a small Fleet of PWS and Assault Dropships, and that's the reason for her success so far at least.
Canopus came quite bare in terms of naval air support, a sample of that were the casualties before hitting the ground in Islington, it will be seen how all these situations evolve
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 04 June 2021, 09:54:32
Tamarind did lead a small Fleet of PWS and Assault Dropships, and that's the reason for her success so far at least.
Canopus came quite bare in terms of naval air support, a sample of that were the casualties before hitting the ground in Islington, it will be seen how all these situations evolve

Tamarind's success is attributed to a logistical mishap and tactical blunder from the Marians leaving the Tamarind front pitifully weak while someone had the bright idea fairy to open invasion corridors into the Rim and Magistry.  Both failed spectacularly so now we're fighting two factions undermanned while most of the mhaf is retreating or galavanting about. 

The only thing that is going to stop writing contrivance here is more writing contrivance. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 04 June 2021, 10:48:33
Tamarind's success is attributed to a logistical mishap and tactical blunder from the Marians leaving the Tamarind front pitifully weak while someone had the bright idea fairy to open invasion corridors into the Rim and Magistry.  Both failed spectacularly so now we're fighting two factions undermanned while most of the mhaf is retreating or galavanting about. 

The only thing that is going to stop writing contrivance here is more writing contrivance.  Either from the FWL core pulling Tamarind out or the Capellans intervening, both of which I highly doubt and I'm not sure I even want that anymore.

The FWL thing may be that they order Tamarind to retreat to that, we add the worlds surrounding Tamarind that could be orphaned and that they would also like to claim.
Capella is not going to interfere, I estimate that the Canopians are going to be much more busy with the Andurien area and its conflict with the Rim commonality

Of course, if things happen with a certain sense and a new chain of stupid things for the MHAF and the Hegemony are not taken from the gallery
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 04 June 2021, 10:50:22
Let me reformat that to this post then since my phone died brainstorming:

Canopus pulls out because of a FWL push to Andurien, Nikol's father's murder investigation may shed light on the political state of the FWL but I highly doubt it's advancing past DA to add sense to the wars here.  Regulan was pacified by the Foxes and Nikol putting her foot down.

The Capellan drive to Terra might also necessitate MHAF-MoC ceasefire, although I still can't fathom why the MH would attack someone who indirectly supplied it for a proxy war, or why someone would think this was good to write in. 

The Lyrans retaking their province from the Duchy now that they can start retaking worlds and Tamarind can't mount proper defenses of anything with so much of its military counter-invading the Marians. 

Wildcard one is the Caesar's wife negotiating a ceasefire with the FWL using Capellan supplied info but the diplomacy card and the Caesar's actual character development has been nonexistent since er3145. 

The other is the Lothian League aiding its ally but I highly doubt joint training from FM3145 is enough to consider the MH and LL even remotely friendly given what happened thanks to the Jihad writing.

It's only a disaster at surface level.  Casualty rates are still low at least across the board but most of them aren't available assets as of 3150.  If you look at the map of SF we didn't even lose Thraxa, we just abandoned it altogether.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 04 June 2021, 11:51:00
Let me reformat that to this post then since my phone died brainstorming:

Canopus pulls out because of a FWL push to Andurien, Nikol's father's murder investigation may shed light on the political state of the FWL but I highly doubt it's advancing past DA to add sense to the wars here.  Regulan was pacified by the Foxes and Nikol putting her foot down.

The Capellan drive to Terra might also necessitate MHAF-MoC ceasefire, although I still can't fathom why the MH would attack someone who indirectly supplied it for a proxy war, or why someone would think this was good to write in. 

The Lyrans retaking their province from the Duchy now that they can start retaking worlds and Tamarind can't mount proper defenses of anything with so much of its military counter-invading the Marians. 

Wildcard one is the Caesar's wife negotiating a ceasefire with the FWL using Capellan supplied info but the diplomacy card and the Caesar's actual character development has been nonexistent since er3145. 

The other is the Lothian League aiding its ally but I highly doubt joint training from FM3145 is enough to consider the MH and LL even remotely friendly given what happened thanks to the Jihad writing.

It's only a disaster at surface level.  Casualty rates are still low at least across the board but most of them aren't available assets as of 3150.  If you look at the map of SF we didn't even lose Thraxa, we just abandoned it altogether.

Lots of things can happen

The Hegemony does nothing for Capella, what may interest us is if Canopus begins to have serious problems with his conflict in Andurien and Frontier Rim Commonality that would cause the Canopians troops to either withdraw or become isolated.

Tamarindo is very overextended like Pyrrhus against Rome, too many borders to cover and too few troops.
And the fund for mercs is already using it on the border with the Hegemony, and if the FWL withdraws a good number of JS and DS, the logistics and the movement of troops will become very complicated and that if there are not more movements on the borders of Tamarind

Or Riots Regulans, or that finally the murderer of Nikol's Father comes from Tamarind or Andurien, if it were one of those cases the War could consequently be brutal

As for the Diplomatic Ability of Ignatius's woman, it seems to be legendary, but neither Tamarind nor the Rim Commonality wants her, if their influences and hand of Cultural annexation moved much better than what has been shown so far and the worlds "liberated" by Tamarind will riot or even add some more independent worlds than those between Kendal and the Rim Comonality could be something epic, but I don't think the authors are going there, we already know from the jihad writing for here what they think about the hegemony
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 04 June 2021, 16:42:48
I'd like to think the writers aren't going to screw the Magistry over.  The murder plot may resolve itself before Andurien gets invaded, and would the Capellans even help the MoC fighting the FWL?  Would the MoC pull auxilary troops from Capellan fronts or the Marian front?  Regulans aren't going to riot over anything because the Sea Fox embargo basically screwed the entire province over. 

Logistically a lot of variables and no real hints to what will possibly happen by Tamar Rising.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 04 June 2021, 16:53:37
I'd like to think the writers aren't going to screw the Magistry over.  The murder plot may resolve itself before Andurien gets invaded, and would the Capellans even help the MoC fighting the FWL?  Would the MoC pull auxilary troops from Capellan fronts or the Marian front?  Regulans aren't going to riot over anything because the Sea Fox embargo basically screwed the entire province over. 

Logistically a lot of variables and no real hints to what will possibly happen by Tamar Rising.

We will have to wait to start seeing something that comes out in IlClan

Let's hope now which models we have, I bet on some Marik, something from Steiner and perhaps some of the less "Technological" Rs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 04 June 2021, 16:56:54
I am hoping we get some hybrid retrotech with modern upgrades.  Kind of a given since we keep using PGeneral but the Taurian rats is mostly that and the MoC one is mostly Capellan. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 04 June 2021, 17:06:06
I am hoping we get some hybrid retrotech with modern upgrades.  Kind of a given since we keep using PGeneral but the Taurian rats is mostly that and the MoC one is mostly Capellan.

Totally, let's hope we do something that is not old and outdated tech, and we can build one of the 3050/3060 versions with that, I'm satisfied
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 June 2021, 08:55:17
Tamarind did lead a small Fleet of PWS and Assault Dropships, and that's the reason for her success so far at least.
Canopus came quite bare in terms of naval air support, a sample of that were the casualties before hitting the ground in Islington, it will be seen how all these situations evolve

That Tamarind force is really potent.

The truce with Davion will free up Canopian assets for the Terran and Marian fronts, and unlike the Hegemony, Canopus has had 60 years+ to build Vengrance DCs and other things.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 June 2021, 09:48:50
Dropping fuel air bombs on legitimate military targets is described as brutal while them using nukes and specifically targeting Marian troops with Infernos for death by burning is not called out on.

That would be a real sign of professionalism for legionaries but obvious hypocrisy on the part of these neoFWL.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 05 June 2021, 11:13:39
That Tamarind force is really potent.

The truce with Davion will free up Canopian assets for the Terran and Marian fronts, and unlike the Hegemony, Canopus has had 60 years+ to build Vengrance DCs and other things.

Again, assuming they even go this far.  Tamarind force is relying on borrowed time that is shorting out from sanctions, assuming logistics mean anything.

Dropping fuel air bombs on legitimate military targets is described as brutal while them using nukes and specifically targeting Marian troops with Infernos for death by burning is not called out on.

That would be a real sign of professionalism for legionaries but obvious hypocrisy on the part of these neoFWL.


BT is a war crime simulator meme, just wait we probably found a Wobbie nuke cache and are waiting for someone to reach Alphard.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 06 June 2021, 02:45:23
It's an invasion, not a usual raiding campaign. Serious assets are committed to invasions.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 06 June 2021, 05:03:17
An invasion that has left their periphery defenses in the province wide open even with the mercenaries he's pulled.  Tamarind's also facing sanction by parliament.  I theorize he has no logistical sustainability if he can't get out of Ilyria.  Likewise they still have to dislodge Legio II and the handful of Legio III left in their own territory.

Unless they decide to nuke themselves just to avoid fighting a Legion again.  Still worth waiting to see if TR shed's light on this.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 06 June 2021, 13:26:00
An invasion that has left their periphery defenses in the province wide open even with the mercenaries he's pulled.  Tamarind's also facing sanction by parliament.  I theorize he has no logistical sustainability if he can't get out of Ilyria.  Likewise they still have to dislodge Legio II and the handful of Legio III left in their own territory.

Unless they decide to nuke themselves just to avoid fighting a Legion again.  Still worth waiting to see if TR shed's light on this.

Frme the description of TR that book covers the area around the Lyran's, Hell's Horses, Jade Falcons and near Periphery, guess we'll have to wait until the book that covers our area of the IS/Periphery.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 06 June 2021, 14:05:43
Frme the description of TR that book covers the area around the Lyran's, Hell's Horses, Jade Falcons and near Periphery, guess we'll have to wait until the book that covers our area of the IS/Periphery.

Yeah, most of us believe it'll primarily focus on that region's power struggle.  It's mostly just hoping we get some light on the situation down here via galaxy blurbs or mention in Nikol's book on what's actually going on. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 07 June 2021, 09:26:36
Frme the description of TR that book covers the area around the Lyran's, Hell's Horses, Jade Falcons and near Periphery, guess we'll have to wait until the book that covers our area of the IS/Periphery.

There may be some mentions in IlClan in that year (3151) in which they will talk about other areas beyond the Terrestrial Corridor, then for deep data we must wait for them to comment on the area of the FWL and the Periphery.
although perhaps some things that appear in the Marik Girl Novel influence our sector
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 June 2021, 09:55:09
The Marik novel will probably focus on Successor State or Clan interactions. They are the movers and shakers of BT afterall.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 07 June 2021, 10:08:02
The Marik novel will probably focus on Successor State or Clan interactions. They are the movers and shakers of BT afterall.

It may be, but what can influence our side of the map is if he identifies his father's killer and turns out to be someone inside the FWL or Canopus.

Although with the genius they are writing, I would not be surprised if they want to hang the dead on us
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 07 June 2021, 10:22:13
The Marik novel will probably focus on Successor State or Clan interactions. They are the movers and shakers of BT afterall.

If it's nothing we don't already know from SF, then it's likely just going to be internal affairs with intelligence and plans to move on Andurien being canceled.  Much like the Capellan book was just insight into the faction pre De-Stoning Terra. 

It may be, but what can influence our side of the map is if he identifies his father's killer and turns out to be someone inside the FWL or Canopus.

Although with the genius they are writing, I would not be surprised if they want to hang the dead on us

As much as I am loathing the writing like it's Gav Thorpe codexes again, it's extremely doubtful they can even pin that on the Romaboo meme pirates Marian nation like that. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 07 June 2021, 10:31:07
We will see and hopefully not the case, when the murderers are quite obvious, but I expect anything
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 June 2021, 10:51:01
We will see and hopefully not the case, when the murderers are quite obvious, but I expect anything

Agreed. These days, anything can be turned into new "truths".
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 June 2021, 10:52:39
If it's nothing we don't already know from SF, then it's likely just going to be internal affairs with intelligence and plans to move on Andurien being canceled.  Much like the Capellan book was just insight into the faction pre De-Stoning Terra. 

Yeah. They really got the releases backward. The novels are just retreading things already done in SF. They should've had the novels out before SF and following sourcebooks.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 08 June 2021, 09:41:36
We will see how the Fluff evolves, what comes out in IlClan will give us a first image of what is to come
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 08 June 2021, 11:17:42
Yup. Especially the maps and faction summaries.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 08 June 2021, 11:30:13
Hurry up and wait for likely bad news. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 08 June 2021, 11:51:23
Hurry up and wait for likely bad news.


Hahahaha, don't worry here we have a saying "Prepare for the worst that is almost always right, if something good falls everything is a bonus"
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Nerroth on 08 June 2021, 12:33:59
It would not be surprising if one of the three "sister" sourcebooks to Tamar Rising at least partially covered the ongoing wars on the Marians' doorstep. Yet while Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade demonstrates how a long-awaited focus on a Periphery faction can come at a cost, I would be surprised if the Hegemony was to end up going the same way as the Hanseatic League.

If only from a game perspective, the distinct force organization structure used by the Marian Legions (and, by extension, in the "post-Marian" Lothian League) stands out in a setting otherwise limited to regiments, Level IVs, and Galaxies. Given that there aren't many options for one of those three other organization types in the ilClan era thus far, it would be unfortunate to see the options narrowed yet further.

Actually, I have been wondering if a future product could offer BattleForce-type Cohort and Legion chain of command diagrams and sheets, akin to those offered in Strategic Operations for Inner Sphere/Periphery companies and regiments, ComStar/WoB Level IIIs and Level IVs, and Clan Clusters and Galaxies. Perhaps an ilClan-era sourcebook taking a look at the Hegemony's current troubles might be a good place to offer such charts?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 08 June 2021, 12:40:29
It would not be surprising if one of the three "sister" sourcebooks to Tamar Rising at least partially covered the ongoing wars on the Marians' doorstep. Yet while Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade demonstrates how a long-awaited focus on a Periphery faction can come at a cost, I would be surprised if the Hegemony was to end up going the same way as the Hanseatic League.

If only from a game perspective, the distinct force organization structure used by the Marian Legions (and, by extension, in the "post-Marian" Lothian League) stands out in a setting otherwise limited to regiments, Level IVs, and Galaxies. Given that there aren't many options for one of those three other organization types in the ilClan era thus far, it would be unfortunate to see the options narrowed yet further.

Actually, I have been wondering if a future product could offer BattleForce-type Cohort and Legion force organization charts, akin to those offered in Strategic Operations for Inner Sphere/Periphery companies and regiments, ComStar/WoB Level IIIs and Level IVs, and Clan Clusters and Galaxies. Perhaps an ilClan-era sourcebook taking a look at the Hegemony's current troubles might be a good place to offer such charts?


It could be, but it would be strange to me that they were occupied in that depth in the Marian Hegemony, but when previously they have occupied little and nothing

We will see the first mentions in IlClan in the year 3151, then we will have to wait for the zone book as you say, but that they will expand for the better in the Hegemony I see it difficult, except in MPS there was little or no expansion on society / military / reforms / factories

And the factories only had that level of detail in the Objectives Raids and of those I doubt that we will see one again in a long time
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 08 June 2021, 15:37:13
Nevermind.  Gonna wait and see while I play MW5 and build my Century which the last two are processing.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 June 2021, 07:41:09
If only from a game perspective, the distinct force organization structure used by the Marian Legions (and, by extension, in the "post-Marian" Lothian League) stands out in a setting otherwise limited to regiments, Level IVs, and Galaxies. Given that there aren't many options for one of those three other organization types in the ilClan era thus far, it would be unfortunate to see the options narrowed yet further.

Really? They even wrote the MHAF as using lances instead of Centuries in one of the recent Rec Guides. It shows that the Hegemony is quite expendable in the current timeline.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 09 June 2021, 08:28:01
Really? They even wrote the MHAF as using lances instead of Centuries in one of the recent Rec Guides. It shows that the Hegemony is quite expendable in the current timeline.

Or someone made a mistake and it wasn't caught.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Geont on 09 June 2021, 08:48:38
MHAF has unique force composition so it could slip by editor/fact-checker. I hope that they update(d) it. It's a pretty daring mistake and should be corrected.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 June 2021, 10:22:45
To their credit, it was errata'd and quickly corrected
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 09 June 2021, 10:24:58
Or someone made a mistake and it wasn't caught.

Aja skip all the Marian military order type and put them like vanilla mech spears? It seems to me something bigger than a little mistake, not to mention the atrocity of not reading a little about the faction and saying that they sell slaves to citizens. That "mistake" has passed four soccer fields
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 09 June 2021, 10:46:45
Aja skip all the Marian military order type and put them like vanilla mech spears?

What does that even mean?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 June 2021, 10:50:48
spears = lances - as in the basic 4-unit organization.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 09 June 2021, 11:04:35
I guess it is far more likely that the writers are attempting to denigrate and remove the Marians but need to do so slowly because of the power of it's fiat than a writer accidentally using the standard BattleTech formation instead of a century.  ::)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 09 June 2021, 11:12:52
MHAF has unique force composition so it could slip by editor/fact-checker. I hope that they update(d) it. It's a pretty daring mistake and should be corrected.

Is that, as I put in the post to Kit, the "Mistake" goes beyond the errors of the name of the MHAF army, the sole concept of selling slaves to a citizen is punishable by the law of the own Hegemony is Patrician Or Plebeyan, it could have been that they were sent to the Mortuori Cohort to atone for their guilt, but in what seems somewhat on purpose it is said that the Hegemony does something contrary to its own law as a more common and wild Bandit Kingdom, and not a nation of laws

And that is unforgivable if they have something similar to a Fast Checking / Editor team that fairly follows the fluff they write above, which I already doubt considering the contradictions between the Field Manual 3145 / Era Report 3145 to the ridiculousness of Shattered Fortress

The Century / Maniple thing was already reported in the Errata post


If it seems so small that they skip the Marian Laws, I hope to see soon that the Wolves sell the Republicans as slaves or that they sell their old men instead of sending them as Solamhna
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: GreekFire on 09 June 2021, 11:23:03
OK. I think it should be said that not every author (and there's a decent number of them!) is an expert when it comes to every faction. Sometimes a few mistakes are made during the writing process. This is normal. A product where an author gets absolutely everything right is exceedingly rare.

Normally this gets picked up on during fact check. It slipped through here. I can only speak for myself, but my recent focus has been in other areas, meaning that some of my Periphery knowledge has gotten a bit rusty. And heck! I've got a few centuries of Marians next to my work desk. I can assure you that there was no malice on my behalf, just a fine example of errare humanum est in action.

If it can be reassuring, I used that mistake as an excuse to brush up on my Marian knowledge, and read my way through relevant passages in about ten different sourcebooks to solidify myself with them once more.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 09 June 2021, 12:00:37
OK. I think it should be said that not every author (and there's a decent number of them!) is an expert when it comes to every faction. Sometimes a few mistakes are made during the writing process. This is normal. A product where an author gets absolutely everything right is exceedingly rare.

Normally this gets picked up on during fact check. It slipped through here. I can only speak for myself, but my recent focus has been in other areas, meaning that some of my Periphery knowledge has gotten a bit rusty. And heck! I've got a few centuries of Marians next to my work desk. I can assure you that there was no malice on my behalf, just a fine example of errare humanum est in action.

If it can be reassuring, I used that mistake as an excuse to brush up on my Marian knowledge, and read my way through relevant passages in about ten different sourcebooks to solidify myself with them once more.

Relax, we all make more mistakes if it is from a faction that you do not know too much, the correction process must be arduous, and it seems to me that the writing by the author could have induced more error than by the correction team itself.

If you want to ask any Fluff query or interpret something from the Marian point of view you can ask us here or privately how more comfortable and neat it is, my English is not very good but I manage to collect all the fluff marian, so you can Ask me, Mekorig, Arkroyalravager, Turaglas, Saint, Weirdo or any other member of the Faction that has been around for a long time, I say it in case something you read does not fit or close or how to interpret it from the point of view peripheral
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 09 June 2021, 12:35:07
For the record, I still know jack in terms of complete reference.  I'm still missing good bits of the Jihad and I am constantly having to re-read SF blurbs to not mixup words with the current conflict.  Part of why I picked a periphery faction because a Clan or Great House would require a lot more reading. 

I can form coherent sentences again since the concussion subsided though!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 09 June 2021, 14:11:01
I can form coherent sentences again since the concussion subsided though!

Yikes! Glad you're feeling better!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 09 June 2021, 15:31:52
Last of my minis game in.  Time to build that century.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 13 June 2021, 17:05:57
Add Crusader-7M In The MUL List , little did we receive this return already discounting the 5M that we already figured, it hurts not to have a version of the BR with Claws
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 17 June 2021, 09:46:27
Anything from Shrapnel #5?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 June 2021, 10:29:13
No, I still have no news on the subject, do you know that something from Sharpell has been solid for the Hegemony?

From what I read out there at the moment there was some fluff from the Crusader Liran but little news more
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 17 June 2021, 22:23:01
Let me ask on Discord.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 18 June 2021, 11:25:27
There I saw the Sharpel 5, as it seems to be the norm, the Marian mention is small about a Sub machine gun called Tiberius and how the Lotharians make a version based on it, their own called Spartacus, curious that when we could do retroengineering of other technological levels , with our own factories we are unable to do it

To wait for the crumbs that are thrown at us in the new Rec Guide, because it is seen that Hegemony is very useless, very gross for own developments according to the writers
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 18 June 2021, 17:10:11
This is why you buy Taurian arms.  Great for killing Fedrats and Cappienists.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 20 June 2021, 06:53:11
There I saw the Sharpel 5, as it seems to be the norm, the Marian mention is small about a Sub machine gun called Tiberius and how the Lotharians make a version based on it, their own called Spartacus, curious that when we could do retroengineering of other technological levels , with our own factories we are unable to do it

To wait for the crumbs that are thrown at us in the new Rec Guide, because it is seen that Hegemony is very useless, very gross for own developments according to the writers

So we can manufacture good battlesuits but fail at a technology like SMGs? We even have some of the best regular infantry in the Periphery, imagine the Caesar's Royal Guard forced to use junk guns.

Yet another case of flip-flopping about the Hegemony's technology and the painfully-forced cartoon villain role the faction is forced to take. You'd imagine a nation that can build standard technology medium ASFs since the 3070s would be able to manufacture decent small arms 80 years later.

Or perhaps those nice Shilones will be retconned into primitive versions too.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Saint on 20 June 2021, 09:20:13
I decided to use some handwavium a while back. It's just too foolish to keep production of primitive tech mechs for a faction that is looking to expand. So using basic logic here is what I'd say the Marians are producing by the Dark Age.
I added the Brigand because of the MUL entry and I think it would be easy to build it as it is the same weight and speed as the Commando. Plus it's not like the Haven's Star Cluster pirates or Vengeance Inc are the suing type.

- - - Domestic 'Mechs - - -
Locust LCT-1V2
Commando COM-4H
Brigand LDT-1
Icarus ICR-2S
Centurion CN9-H2H and H3
Gladiator GLD-5R
Emperor EMP-6A
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 20 June 2021, 09:30:15
So we can manufacture good battlesuits but fail at a technology like SMGs? We even have some of the best regular infantry in the Periphery, imagine the Caesar's Royal Guard forced to use junk guns.

Yet another case of flip-flopping about the Hegemony's technology and the painfully-forced cartoon villain role the faction is forced to take. You'd imagine a nation that can build standard technology medium ASFs since the 3070s would be able to manufacture decent small arms 80 years later.

Or perhaps those nice Shilones will be retconned into primitive versions too.

I don't know anything about the tabletop infantry meat scale weapons to draw comparisons.  Is it actually a bad weapon or is it just a meme Craig threw in as filler?

Gonna use some armchair here, smgs kind of fell behind in real life outside of PDW weapons for everyone who isn't civilians and law enforcement.  Main reason is pistol caliber rounds do jack **** for armor, SBRs using intermediate rounds are where its hot currently because the loss of muzzle velocity from decreasing the barrel still out performs them firing lots of little pews.  I wouldn't fathom anyone issuing this for anyone that isn't support crew like tankers or vtol pilots, or people who are still scared about over penetration around civilians.  Second, large magazine Vladof bullet hose memes don't sound useful outside squad automatic weapons or enclosed spaces like ship raiding.  Lmgs and sbrs can easily be built off or converted from a hegemony standard-issue rifle.  The writer here evidently did not understand what the definition of force multiplier means.

This sounds like a pirate weapon, not MHAF service equipment.  Shot placement is going to be more important, especially with factions who are strapped on tech, resources, anddoesn't require a lot of cleaning either.

I decided to use some handwavium a while back. It's just too foolish to keep production of primitive tech mechs for a faction that is looking to expand. So using basic logic here is what I'd say the Marians are producing by the Dark Age.
I added the Brigand because of the MUL entry and I think it would be easy to build it as it is the same weight and speed as the Commando. Plus it's not like the Haven's Star Cluster pirates or Vengeance Inc are the suing type.

- - - Domestic 'Mechs - - -
Locust LCT-1V2
Commando COM-4H
Brigand LDT-1
Icarus ICR-2S
Centurion CN9-H2H and H3
Gladiator GLD-5R
Emperor EMP-6A


Makes sense I guess, if we're going to be stuck with pirate ties we may as well get a pirate mech seeing as how the Brotherhood got our rocket commando variant as a local production run now.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Sharpnel on 20 June 2021, 11:17:11
That's not too bad of a mix for the Marians. Upgraded weapons and tech would make them better of coursee
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 20 June 2021, 12:01:49
I decided to use some handwavium a while back. It's just too foolish to keep production of primitive tech mechs for a faction that is looking to expand. So using basic logic here is what I'd say the Marians are producing by the Dark Age.
I added the Brigand because of the MUL entry and I think it would be easy to build it as it is the same weight and speed as the Commando. Plus it's not like the Haven's Star Cluster pirates or Vengeance Inc are the suing type.

- - - Domestic 'Mechs - - -
Locust LCT-1V2
Commando COM-4H
Brigand LDT-1
Icarus ICR-2S
Centurion CN9-H2H and H3
Gladiator GLD-5R
Emperor EMP-6A

It would not be surprising if the Hegemony builds some more Light mech version, something very common like the Wasp or the Stinger.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 20 June 2021, 14:28:21
That's not too bad of a mix for the Marians. Upgraded weapons and tech would make them better of coursee

You're right.  Maybe semi-modern refit kits with some weird designs.

Could even throw in old Hunchbacks in.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 June 2021, 15:08:23
Given the good relations with the Taurian's i'm surprised the Hegemony isn't making the Stinger -5R and Wasp -3P.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 20 June 2021, 18:44:26
Given the good relations with the Taurian's i'm surprised the Hegemony isn't making the Stinger -5R and Wasp -3P.

It is a more than reasonable appreciation about possible versions of Stinger / Wasp that could be manufactured in the Hegemony
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 21 June 2021, 02:16:06
Given the good relations with the Taurian's i'm surprised the Hegemony isn't making the Stinger -5R and Wasp -3P.

I think the friendliness is more attributed to the MIC building in Taurian space.  Presuming the Taurians and MH are indifferent to each other even though most Taurian players I know don't really care and are good people.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 21 June 2021, 05:51:06
It would not be surprising if the Hegemony builds some more Light mech version, something very common like the Wasp or the Stinger.

The ones with Light PPCs are good and easy to produce too
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 21 June 2021, 10:30:18
I think the friendliness is more attributed to the MIC building in Taurian space.  Presuming the Taurians and MH are indifferent to each other even though most Taurian players I know don't really care and are good people.

no, Since 3075 the TTI and Pinard have a good relationship with the Marian Arms and have sold the Maultier as a design, to that the partnership between the ATC Perdition and Alphard for the Fulcrum, and the military exchange between the two states say more than a good neighborhood.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 21 June 2021, 11:40:11
I think the friendliness is more attributed to the MIC building in Taurian space.  Presuming the Taurians and MH are indifferent to each other even though most Taurian players I know don't really care and are good people.

The TC/MH relation is...complicated. Up to Jeffrey Calderon ascencion, the TC was selling molitary equipment to the MH, especially the exchange of the Gladius's taurian made Pontiac 50 AC/10 for a part of the hover production. Jeffrey cancelled it for obvious reasons, but after he died, the new Protector, Grover Shraplen, restarted the trading. Also by this time you have the dealing between Perdition´s ATC, Alphard´s ATC and Kendall´s ATC/KY to produce the upgraded Fulcrums in the MH. By the DA you see Marian Arms Inc. and Pinard Protectorates Limited[ co-producing the Marian-designed Marauder BA.

I would not say that the MH/TC have a "buddy" relation, but i am sure they have a healthy commercial relationship.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 21 June 2021, 16:35:18
The TC/MH relation is...complicated. Up to Jeffrey Calderon ascencion, the TC was selling molitary equipment to the MH, especially the exchange of the Gladius's taurian made Pontiac 50 AC/10 for a part of the hover production. Jeffrey cancelled it for obvious reasons, but after he died, the new Protector, Grover Shraplen, restarted the trading. Also by this time you have the dealing between Perdition´s ATC, Alphard´s ATC and Kendall´s ATC/KY to produce the upgraded Fulcrums in the MH. By the DA you see Marian Arms Inc. and Pinard Protectorates Limited[ co-producing the Marian-designed Marauder BA.

I would not say that the MH/TC have a "buddy" relation, but i am sure they have a healthy commercial relationship.

With the MoC being tied to the CapCon it makes some sense for the Taurians to keep relations with the Hegemony friendly.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 21 June 2021, 22:16:13
Periphery factions and sense?

Holy crap hell is freezing over. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 22 June 2021, 06:18:30
With the MoC being tied to the CapCon it makes some sense for the Taurians to keep relations with the Hegemony friendly.

This. They are both interested in keeping the much-stronger Canopians from swallowing them up on a whim.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 22 June 2021, 11:57:40
Add Wolwerine 11M and 9R to the Marian MUL
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 23 June 2021, 22:43:07
Got a question about Marian formations, did they switch to quasi Roman when Julius instituted his reforms, or before Marius' reforms?  I know they received the Latin names after the Lothian conquest.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 24 June 2021, 10:37:31
Got a question about Marian formations, did they switch to quasi Roman when Julius instituted his reforms, or before Marius' reforms?  I know they received the Latin names after the Lothian conquest.

The training on 10/5/30 was done by Marius, if you mean the names and functions of each Legio if I think it is part of Julius's Reformation
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 26 June 2021, 00:34:18
I'm gonna look through de re militari and see what I can use to Romanify more of my Marian stuff.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 27 June 2021, 14:23:35
We will always have to do the work of Romanization / Marianization of the mechs, not all of them are the Sarcina unfortunately
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 28 June 2021, 01:44:49
Yeah it's a beautiful design.  Little too much embellishment for my tastes but perfect for the Praetorians. 

Going to ask something for the other Marian players, how do you guys view internally the MH itself?  As a deluxe bandit Kingdom or a growing underdog nation?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 29 June 2021, 22:37:58
I see the Marian Hegemony as a growing nation that was not given much development except in the period 3064/3074, that is, during the Julius period and immediately after this, the most detailed book on what the Marian Hegemony is like is by that era the Glorious Mayor Periphery States
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 30 June 2021, 01:28:51
Even Sean's period was given better treatment than the current one. He brought in the Gladius and conquered the Lothians.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 30 June 2021, 08:47:21
The obvious not withstanding, I'd say Sean really put the drive into nation building over Marius.  Although we need another Julius.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 30 June 2021, 09:46:43
Clearly, the consolidation of the Nation began with Marius, he made the first reform of the MHAF and created the Collegium Bellorum, he also did the Colonization program that added 4 more systems.
Then the MHAF was expanded and Lothario conquered, created the Air Academy of Aerofighters / DS / JS.
Julius colonized Valerius and conquered Illyria and two of the worlds of Circinus (bah according to Fluff's books people received him as liberators), then he took Hazeldan and Huntington who were in chaos and were used as a base by marik units related to WoB.
He expanded the Bellorum to train nearly two Cohorts per year of excellent troops and expanded the curriculum to BA / BA Marines Infantry. It also expanded the Air Academy and expanded the Mars Training Camps in resources to train Mech / Tanks / Infantry, mainly for commoners and patricians with fewer resources to supply the MHAF and militias of each planet.
Already in the social thing he made profound reforms giving them Tribunes of the Plebs and a legislative chamber to be elected by the Plebeians that had less power than the Senate of course.
He also made the Illyrians, Lotharians, and Circinians citizens, and Cassius extended that to Marik's annexed worlds.

Clearly we need a Caesar builder, a Julius, Trajan, Hadrian or Marco Aurelio, once our current problems are finished, the nation will need to be strengthened, and the best thing in my opinion as I already explained elsewhere is to open several colonization zones, and make it grow economically. / Technologically the nation, and separate ourselves from the Inner Sphere and its "IlClan" Raised in a cloning vat and its eugenic warriors
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: MDFification on 30 June 2021, 10:18:17
Clearly we need a Caesar builder, a Julius, Trajan, Hadrian or Marco Aurelio, once our current problems are finished, the nation will need to be strengthened, and the best thing in my opinion as I already explained elsewhere is to open several colonization zones, and make it grow economically. / Technologically the nation, and separate ourselves from the Inner Sphere and its "IlClan" Raised in a cloning vat and its eugenic warriors

It would be one heck of a twist for someone in the Periphery to be allowed to have nice things for once. Unfortunately, any time a Periphery state starts building better institutions, developing economically or settling new colonies, it usually means they're overdue for some sort of military disaster that either wipes them out or sets them back decades. Happened to Finnmark, happened to Oberon, happened to the Taurians, happened to the Illyrians, probably would have happened to the Rim Collection if the writers remembered they existed, looks like it's happening to the Marians in the 3150s with the war between them and Marik.

Still, looks like the Dark Age is closing the technological gap between the Periphery and the Inner Sphere somewhat. I still have hope.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 30 June 2021, 12:02:35
It would be one heck of a twist for someone in the Periphery to be allowed to have nice things for once. Unfortunately, any time a Periphery state starts building better institutions, developing economically or settling new colonies, it usually means they're overdue for some sort of military disaster that either wipes them out or sets them back decades. Happened to Finnmark, happened to Oberon, happened to the Taurians, happened to the Illyrians, probably would have happened to the Rim Collection if the writers remembered they existed, looks like it's happening to the Marians in the 3150s with the war between them and Marik.

Still, looks like the Dark Age is closing the technological gap between the Periphery and the Inner Sphere somewhat. I still have hope.

We will see what happens, even that war does not end, the worst may happen to us or the nuts may turn, likewise, starting colonization would have to be once the tail-blows of these confrontations end.

And if the Hegemony could colonize worlds before, it could do it again.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 30 June 2021, 22:38:42
It would be one heck of a twist for someone in the Periphery to be allowed to have nice things for once. Unfortunately, any time a Periphery state starts building better institutions, developing economically or settling new colonies, it usually means they're overdue for some sort of military disaster that either wipes them out or sets them back decades. Happened to Finnmark, happened to Oberon, happened to the Taurians, happened to the Illyrians, probably would have happened to the Rim Collection if the writers remembered they existed, looks like it's happening to the Marians in the 3150s with the war between them and Marik.

Still, looks like the Dark Age is closing the technological gap between the Periphery and the Inner Sphere somewhat. I still have hope.

Somewhat.  Writers said in the recguide ama that new stuff is still going to be traded for and the Sea Foxes are going to be trading.  Assuming of course they stop tapeworming into the FWL.

We will see what happens, even that war does not end, the worst may happen to us or the nuts may turn, likewise, starting colonization would have to be once the tail-blows of these confrontations end.

And if the Hegemony could colonize worlds before, it could do it again.

I'll be happy if we don't get roped into further proxying for a faction (most of us don't like) and sidelined with more hilariously bad filler like it's a Matt Ward book.  I'll also be thankful if the Marians do something nation building worthy that takes Josh Sawyer's meme out of people's minds when thinking of Romaboo's in space.  Maybe allying with the Timbuktu Collective and Taurians finally since I feel like the future merger might cut and run from Marian manufacturing. 

I do agree in colonizing further but I'm not sure how far we're gonna go there with a focus primarily on Clans and a crumbling IS.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 30 June 2021, 23:30:31
Somewhat.  Writers said in the recguide ama that new stuff is still going to be traded for and the Sea Foxes are going to be trading.  Assuming of course they stop tapeworming into the FWL.

I'll be happy if we don't get roped into further proxying for a faction (most of us don't like) and sidelined with more hilariously bad filler like it's a Matt Ward book.  I'll also be thankful if the Marians do something nation building worthy that takes Josh Sawyer's meme out of people's minds when thinking of Romaboo's in space.  Maybe allying with the Timbuktu Collective and Taurians finally since I feel like the future merger might cut and run from Marian manufacturing. 

I do agree in colonizing further but I'm not sure how far we're gonna go there with a focus primarily on Clans and a crumbling IS.

Regarding the Marian industry, I think that since 3085 we have enough of our own industry, it is necessary to know how much only when it occurs to them to say it, it is possible that we still depend on other markets for the most modern equipment but not much beyond that.

As for what we talk about the Colonization I think that the more colonies the province of Alphard gives to the deep periphery and from the Valerius area the better than the better, if things develop as it seems they will happen in the Inner Sphere we will have waves Refugees and groups leaving the Inner Sphere can be absorbed or allowed to pass, they can even be tempted to join their own colonizing process.

If it would be nice if they take care of developing the Marian Hegemony as they should, but for that we will have to wait and see, the meme-like positions about the Hegemonics are smiling once after they get boring, I hope they realize it
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 01 July 2021, 02:11:23
Clearly, the consolidation of the Nation began with Marius, he made the first reform of the MHAF and created the Collegium Bellorum, he also did the Colonization program that added 4 more systems.
Then the MHAF was expanded and Lothario conquered, created the Air Academy of Aerofighters / DS / JS.
Julius colonized Valerius and conquered Illyria and two of the worlds of Circinus (bah according to Fluff's books people received him as liberators), then he took Hazeldan and Huntington who were in chaos and were used as a base by marik units related to WoB.
He expanded the Bellorum to train nearly two Cohorts per year of excellent troops and expanded the curriculum to BA / BA Marines Infantry. It also expanded the Air Academy and expanded the Mars Training Camps in resources to train Mech / Tanks / Infantry, mainly for commoners and patricians with fewer resources to supply the MHAF and militias of each planet.
Already in the social thing he made profound reforms giving them Tribunes of the Plebs and a legislative chamber to be elected by the Plebeians that had less power than the Senate of course.
He also made the Illyrians, Lotharians, and Circinians citizens, and Cassius extended that to Marik's annexed worlds.

Clearly we need a Caesar builder, a Julius, Trajan, Hadrian or Marco Aurelio, once our current problems are finished, the nation will need to be strengthened, and the best thing in my opinion as I already explained elsewhere is to open several colonization zones, and make it grow economically. / Technologically the nation, and separate ourselves from the Inner Sphere and its "IlClan" Raised in a cloning vat and its eugenic warriors

Well said. We do need a new Julius or one of the Five Good Emperors-style leader.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 01 July 2021, 05:26:48
Or at the least a competent one.  If we can't get new colony worlds then we need more industrial improvements on our current worlds especially because we're likely going to lose a lot more territory now and have to make up losing Illyria.  I wouldn't be surprised if we shrink and lose the entire Illyrian province or get shot in the back by Lothario.  While we're at it let's hope the Timbuktu Collective and Taurians don't get screwed over too.

Edit: I literally forgot what I posted earlier.  I can't brain today.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 01 July 2021, 11:36:59
Or at the least a competent one.  If we can't get new colony worlds then we need more industrial improvements on our current worlds especially because we're likely going to lose a lot more territory now and have to make up losing Illyria.  I wouldn't be surprised if we shrink and lose the entire Illyrian province or get shot in the back by Lothario.  While we're at it let's hope the Timbuktu Collective and Taurians don't get screwed over too.

Edit: I literally forgot what I posted earlier.  I can't brain today.

The Hegemonic central worlds are industrialized, of course any improvement will be quite well received, we must see what happens with the Illyrian Front in the next books, the colonization adds resources, jump points and strategic positioning.

The Lotharians could only attack with a big hand from a writer, they don't even have a Full Legion and they depend on the equipment that we sell them.

Ignatius until 3145 was doing it regularly well, expanding investments in factories, improving trade and with the cultural annexation program, then in Shattered Fortress he does the complete opposite and acts like a chump.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 01 July 2021, 14:17:26
Just have to wait past the delay then and see what happens.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 02 July 2021, 07:00:23

Ignatius until 3145 was doing it regularly well, expanding investments in factories, improving trade and with the cultural annexation program, then in Shattered Fortress he does the complete opposite and acts like a chump.

This is not the only instance of heavy-handed contrivance in the storyline during the 3145 era. The plot is forcefully shoehorned to fit certain goals.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 03 July 2021, 01:02:43
It's obvious enough new people can pick up on it. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 04 July 2021, 11:11:26
I think one explanation is that in the end you can't turn a nation's fundamental principles on a dime. Ignatius has his policies, but the people he's carrying them out with still got to be the elites of the Hegemony in the traditional ways. So among other things, no matter how strategically appropriate to behave otherwise, a Legio at loose ends for a long period of time is going to want to go on a raid and be a domestic problem if it can't.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 04 July 2021, 13:37:08
I think one explanation is that in the end you can't turn a nation's fundamental principles on a dime. Ignatius has his policies, but the people he's carrying them out with still got to be the elites of the Hegemony in the traditional ways. So among other things, no matter how strategically appropriate to behave otherwise, a Legio at loose ends for a long period of time is going to want to go on a raid and be a domestic problem if it can't.

Feels like a dead horse again but I'm gonna disagree there, since that would be more meaningful if it was elaborated as such.  The justification for going raider isn't there though because the major decision making and the Caesar's dealings just aren't there, so you can't infer if the Marian Legions are really just raiding because boys will be boys. Though they should have abandoned most of that mindset by the Julius reforms of the military in the FCCW era. 

Paraphrasing what I said in the previous topic, it was to contrive an opening for Marik to counterattack.  Otherwise the breakdown in military operations has no substance and you can go back to inferring the writer didn't actually care and just wanted something there like the Recguide locust issue. 

I think Ravager's comment is about the overall state of DA as opposed to this particular instance of writing in SF though.  I don't have anything past ER:3145, FM3145, and SF to talk about the Hegemony's history during the Lothian Rebellions so I can't bring up additional qualms but it's more than just the MH here. 

Shortened significantly as I'm rambling too much.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 06 July 2021, 13:44:28
Feels like a dead horse again but I'm gonna disagree there, since that would be more meaningful if it was elaborated as such.  The justification for going raider isn't there though because the major decision making and the Caesar's dealings just aren't there, so you can't infer if the Marian Legions are really just raiding because boys will be boys. Though they should have abandoned most of that mindset by the Julius reforms of the military in the FCCW era. 

Paraphrasing what I said in the previous topic, it was to contrive an opening for Marik to counterattack.  Otherwise the breakdown in military operations has no substance and you can go back to inferring the writer didn't actually care and just wanted something there like the Recguide locust issue. 

I think Ravager's comment is about the overall state of DA as opposed to this particular instance of writing in SF though.  I don't have anything past ER:3145, FM3145, and SF to talk about the Hegemony's history during the Lothian Rebellions so I can't bring up additional qualms but it's more than just the MH here. 

Shortened significantly as I'm rambling too much.

My personal shot in the dark is that it is a high-level intrigue against the Caeser (domestic or foreign-influenced), it's almost perfectly bad as a course of action (that part of the analysis we share). But I maintain that raiding being the traditional mechanism that one rises and gains wealth in the Legios makes that it was a mistake made by Marians possessing "honest" intentions a plausible event (i.e. a "prize money!"/"greedy governor" explanation).
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 06 July 2021, 15:19:05
Well when the Germanium started to dry up, they took to piracy to support the Hegemony.  Even with the lore from Fedcom on the Legions and nation expanding and legitimizing, I'm not entirely sure how they organize slaver hunting parties like in the Rim in the blurb.  Slaves are economic multipliers so you'd want to collect POWs for that (or ransom) as the actual Romans did but you don't want to focus on it because it takes away from combat readiness.  Which is what Julius' reforms focused on honing the Legions into professionals and not pirates.

What I would like to know is the actual reason behind the leapfrog that left the MHAF wide opened.  If it's political intrigue and not just the Taurian comedy of wanting a better fight, it would have been more transparent someone wanted to remove the Caesar.

At least my take on it, Nero and Commodus archs bore me to death.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 06 July 2021, 16:39:31
Well when the Germanium started to dry up, they took to piracy to support the Hegemony.  Even with the lore from Fedcom on the Legions and nation expanding and legitimizing, I'm not entirely sure how they organize slaver hunting parties like in the Rim in the blurb.  Slaves are economic multipliers so you'd want to collect POWs for that (or ransom) as the actual Romans did but you don't want to focus on it because it takes away from combat readiness.  Which is what Julius' reforms focused on honing the Legions into professionals and not pirates.

What I would like to know is the actual reason behind the leapfrog that left the MHAF wide opened.  If it's political intrigue and not just the Taurian comedy of wanting a better fight, it would have been more transparent someone wanted to remove the Caesar.

At least my take on it, Nero and Commodus archs bore me to death.


Let's see in the case of Ignatius until 3145 he had a position to multiply the conventional units and leave for later the reconstruction of the V Legio, he invested in Commerce, Military and Civil Industry
The program of cultural annexation began, and the military expansion of the Hegemony was left off the agenda.
Only Raids and Pirate Hunts were authorized

And then less than 5 years later the MHAF did anything especially the III Legio that from Raids happened to take over systems.
The IV Legio was more a matter of Raids idem the VI Legio but strangely they are always incomptent despite the fact that the two units are Veteran and in the case of the IV Legio with a good technological level for having spent the last 10 years in the Hegemonic industrial zone receiving first by proximity to the factories

The change in policies of Cesar and the higher command of the MHAF is rare to begin to say something

Turaglas The Germanium did not dry out precisely, the Hegemony has mines in several Pompey, Horatius and Algenib systems and that is the easiest to find, beyond the old deposits of Alphard and the mines that still exist there as they well count in the fluff of the Land Train that coincidentally these vehicles were used to transport Germanium and other minerals from the mines to the Alphard Commercial Spaceports.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 07 July 2021, 06:01:17
I know, and again I know.  I'm reiterating what I read in the periphery field manual page 72-73 with battlemech forces. 

I can see the differences in fm3145 but I can't see a correlation with the orders of battle, corruption, and fighting strength since that goes out the window by 3147-50.  Best thing is to wait a month and see how screwed we are what's next.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 July 2021, 06:27:34

Let's see in the case of Ignatius until 3145 he had a position to multiply the conventional units and leave for later the reconstruction of the V Legio, he invested in Commerce, Military and Civil Industry
The program of cultural annexation began, and the military expansion of the Hegemony was left off the agenda.
Only Raids and Pirate Hunts were authorized

It is odd that the Hegemony provoked a war from a position of weakness. At least fully reconstitute Legio V before starting anything. Or just start invading in 3134, when they had the chance to conquer a lot of independents before digesting them.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 08 July 2021, 22:41:25
It's odd that Ignatius would take a deal with the Cappelans instead of looking towards the other factions first.  That deal involved being supplied to start a diversionary conflict, but then over expanded when any given point of time counterattack was to be expected.

If they wanted to attack the MoC, running chain into the Rim isn't relevant even if it's former territory.  Also waiting for the inevitable Andurien war would make loads more sense, because you could just make money selling BAs and tanks to the FW.  Or even the Lyrans rather than rely on very circumstantial and flimsy proxy deals.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Geont on 09 July 2021, 02:48:47
It's odd that Ignatius would take a deal with the Cappelans instead of looking towards the other factions first.  That deal involved being supplied to start a diversionary conflict, but then over expanded when any given point of time counterattack was to be expected.


Where is this implied? I don't remember that in Shattered Fortress there was any mention of such deal. Only justification from Tamarind to go to war with Marians.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 09 July 2021, 16:17:33
There is nothing in Shattered Fortress about Capela's help to the Marian Hegemony, the Capela team that we can have is salvage from fights with Canopus nothing else, the rest is Tamarind propaganda
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 10 July 2021, 05:41:50
Where is this implied? I don't remember that in Shattered Fortress there was any mention of such deal. Only justification from Tamarind to go to war with Marians.

Page 37 details the safespace agents who cracked Marian security and found Canopian and Capellan supplies in depots for the war effort.  As well as Peony Blossom, which is the Capellan agent signing off on supplying the Marian Legions and a correspondence with her command requesting they accelerate timetables to keep the FW on the Marians.  This was for the FWL not to attack Andurien, which would bog the Cappinists down as it wants to push towards Terra.

Greekfire had to point it out to me.  When I initially skimmed SF I only looked at the blitzkrieg section.  I chalk it up to cramming information into a book that was an operations table for upcoming novel releases and subsequently was rushed for it.  The relevant info before that is in the FWL section and the part where the Marians had a little success was in the Wolf section was in a blurb.  However there was no information as to why the Marians halted and switched targets at all apart from a speculation blurb of a Taurian news show mocking them over looking for a better fight.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 12 July 2021, 15:23:32
Page 37 details the safespace agents who cracked Marian security and found Canopian and Capellan supplies in depots for the war effort.  As well as Peony Blossom, which is the Capellan agent signing off on supplying the Marian Legions and a correspondence with her command requesting they accelerate timetables to keep the FW on the Marians.  This was for the FWL not to attack Andurien, which would bog the Cappinists down as it wants to push towards Terra.

Greekfire had to point it out to me.  When I initially skimmed SF I only looked at the blitzkrieg section.  I chalk it up to cramming information into a book that was an operations table for upcoming novel releases and subsequently was rushed for it.  The relevant info before that is in the FWL section and the part where the Marians had a little success was in the Wolf section was in a blurb.  However there was no information as to why the Marians halted and switched targets at all apart from a speculation blurb of a Taurian news show mocking them over looking for a better fight.

Curious about the Capellan help issue when there is almost no Capellan material in the MUL Marian, I don't know what they may have found if, as we repeatedly see, 90% of the material purchased or salvage is Marik or Lyran, even the Capellan material that could have can be attributed to salvage captured to Canopus.
Every time I see this info again, it sounds to me like what the intelligence services of my country and the surrounding area call "rotten fish", that is, false information planted by someone to profit by justifying an action, whether the culprit of this is Tamarind or Canopus in my opinion
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 13 July 2021, 04:33:07
Curious about the Capellan help issue when there is almost no Capellan material in the MUL Marian, I don't know what they may have found if, as we repeatedly see, 90% of the material purchased or salvage is Marik or Lyran, even the Capellan material that could have can be attributed to salvage captured to Canopus.
Every time I see this info again, it sounds to me like what the intelligence services of my country and the surrounding area call "rotten fish", that is, false information planted by someone to profit by justifying an action, whether the culprit of this is Tamarind or Canopus in my opinion

You need more than mechs and ships listed on MUL.  You need food and ammunition.  You need supply chains and local depots to rearm and fix all of your mechs.  Peony Blossom wasn't giving the Marians needed tech to build Capellan designs, they were supplying them with provisions to keep them localized since everyone assumes they're pirates and not a legitimate military force that can fight on attrition.  Napolean quote for the age: The amateurs discuss tactics: the professionals discuss logistics.

I can't dispute the information in SF besides what ifs and what lese until more comes out, however this is very much a proxy conflict that wasn't in our favor.  Like all proxy wars, the Marians got supplied and paid into fighting the FWL at the benefit of the Capellan block.  A good chunk of the success of the MHAF relied on being provisioned by the Capellans as well as remaining focused in the FWL with rapid feints they couldn't respond to.  Even the Taurians could guess the Canopians (even indirectly through Capellan corporate channels) backed the Marians into attacking the FWL, so it's almost baffling that the only explanation of changing fronts is they turned around and wanted to fight another enemy over an outdated territorial dispute because... they got over confident? 

I can come up with a few wild ideas besides the Marians being bored of fighting the FWL but they have no substance.  My best guess, going broadly here, is they're trying to portray Ignatius as Nero or Caligula and the possible end to the O'reilly dynasty while showing that the FWL is still divided with Nikol and Marik. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 13 July 2021, 06:25:43
Curious about the Capellan help issue when there is almost no Capellan material in the MUL Marian, I don't know what they may have found if, as we repeatedly see, 90% of the material purchased or salvage is Marik or Lyran, even the Capellan material that could have can be attributed to salvage captured to Canopus.
Every time I see this info again, it sounds to me like what the intelligence services of my country and the surrounding area call "rotten fish", that is, false information planted by someone to profit by justifying an action, whether the culprit of this is Tamarind or Canopus in my opinion

Sounds like Fontaine manufactured an excuse to go to war. He himself is getting senile, because it is contradictory that Canopus(the Capellan partner) is attacked by the Hegemony(a supposed benefactor of Capellan aid).
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 13 July 2021, 07:07:45
The Marians invading Canopus doesn't make sense from any perspective, Marik counter-invading just to get back at the Marians does.  Nikol sanctioning Marik does not make a lot of sense outside the idea that she's struggling to control the FWL seeing as she and her mother have to rely on the Sea Foxes heavily. 

The Canopian arch through the Rim doesn't do much unless you come up with really bad speculative conspiracies.  One I came up with last topic was it was a ruse between the Marians and Canopus to draw the FWL out more since the war puttered out.  Another substanceless idea I had was Nikol convinced the Marians to stop attacking the FWL and to attack Canopus for some reason and Marik and the council wasn't informed because she didn't want to directly draw the Capellans into the upcoming Andurien invasion. 

They're both stupid speculative hypothesis but I've got nothing else to work with.  If at face value, it's pretty bad filler and I've seen some bad ones from both Ward and Thorpe.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Geont on 13 July 2021, 07:34:04
Page 37 details the safespace agents who cracked Marian security and found Canopian and Capellan supplies in depots for the war effort.  As well as Peony Blossom, which is the Capellan agent signing off on supplying the Marian Legions and a correspondence with her command requesting they accelerate timetables to keep the FW on the Marians.  This was for the FWL not to attack Andurien, which would bog the Cappinists down as it wants to push towards Terra.


Missed that one. I sometimes forget to read these sidebar parts after reading through the main text of the chapter. Now I am dumbfounded by later development (attack on Canopus). Did they to hope to get more gear by raiding Canopus and not waiting on delivery? Was the gear delivered on Gibraltar being stuck on planet? It answers little and makes more questions.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 13 July 2021, 09:34:05
You need more than mechs and ships listed on MUL.  You need food and ammunition.  You need supply chains and local depots to rearm and fix all of your mechs.  Peony Blossom wasn't giving the Marians needed tech to build Capellan designs, they were supplying them with provisions to keep them localized since everyone assumes they're pirates and not a legitimate military force that can fight on attrition.  Napolean quote for the age: The amateurs discuss tactics: the professionals discuss logistics.

I can't dispute the information in SF besides what ifs and what lese until more comes out, however this is very much a proxy conflict that wasn't in our favor.  Like all proxy wars, the Marians got supplied and paid into fighting the FWL at the benefit of the Capellan block.  A good chunk of the success of the MHAF relied on being provisioned by the Capellans as well as remaining focused in the FWL with rapid feints they couldn't respond to.  Even the Taurians could guess the Canopians (even indirectly through Capellan corporate channels) backed the Marians into attacking the FWL, so it's almost baffling that the only explanation of changing fronts is they turned around and wanted to fight another enemy over an outdated territorial dispute because... they got over confident? 

I can come up with a few wild ideas besides the Marians being bored of fighting the FWL but they have no substance.  My best guess, going broadly here, is they're trying to portray Ignatius as Nero or Caligula and the possible end to the O'reilly dynasty while showing that the FWL is still divided with Nikol and Marik.


We go in parts

Supplies in an age of space travel and interstellar warfare sounds kind of outdated to me
Food and Ammunition I can assure you that the Hegemony produces in more than generous quantities, already in a certain Dark Age novel the Marikenses consider buying equipment and weapons from Marian Arms, so I can assure you that ammunition for a war is produced in quantity.
The only credible logistics that could in any way serve would be to facilitate dropships and dropships to mobilize troops faster.
Another option would be that Capela has built a factory or added lines of some designs in existing factories, obviously the smart thing would be to buy designs that do not point to a cappella and are camouflaged to the eye of an intelligence observer.
The capellan teams in a Depot installed in a hurry in Gibraltar a recently occupied world sounds like a Huge Bluff or a montage to me, if it were in a Depot in Illyria or in another world maybe I would consider it but in Gibraltar it reeks of Tamarind montage .

THE "agreement" for a proxy war in favor of Capela having the other head of the Hydra (Canopus) as an enemy sounds so illogical to me that it even seems that they did not read well the issue of the Hegemony fiefdoms with the Canopians.

Making Ignatius appear as Caligula or Neron sounds strange to me for the simple matter that in the Era Report and Field Manual immediately above there was little lacking for him to be Trajan.

Napoleon's Commentary is very sympathetic coming from him, being that he was precisely a Great Strategist who did not fulfill that maxim in his war with Russia.

The Attacks on Rim Commonality and Canopus could be considered Raids, because what the Legions did what they did was attack, sweep and lift the looted, and the attacks from the beginning on Thraxa and Vixen were not even on Canopus because at that time They are independent



Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 July 2021, 12:57:49

We go in parts

Supplies in an age of space travel and interstellar warfare sounds kind of outdated to me

Huh?  The most precious commodity in BTU is the drop collar . . . it does not matter what you can produce on a planet, if you want to project power, as much as what you can move to your Area of Operations.

The average battle (not skirmish like we see on the table top) runs several hours and you use (IIRC the stats) 2.5 'units' of fire which in BT's case IIRC gets translated as 2.5 ammo load outs.  I know some of the other logistical discussions talks about basic planning requiring 60% of the armor.  Of course, all of which is the ideal IF you have the hulls & collars to move the supplies . . . otherwise you might have to go to 2 units of fire and 40% armor or other such compromises.

Just basic outline for a multi-world invasion . . . you have to move the attack units on their in-efficient assault transports, you have to move the supplies to expeditiously carry out the invasion, you have to move the garrison follow up forces, you have to move the attack forces on to their next target, and then you have to keep the garrison force in supply while pushing the attack force supplies further from your depots.

One of those things that gave Ulric Kerensky a advantage when leading the Wolves in the Invasion was that his jumpships and cargo dropships were in constant motion- even while Wolf forces were pacifying their current targets, the merchant/tech castes were establishing forward Clan supply caches in space for the next wave of targets.  And unlike modern forces, BT forces seem to forage . . . or at least requisition from local sources, though IMO that introduces security problems- how do you know those fresh vegetables were not contaminated with listeria (or whatever)?  the tomato sauce given salmonella (chicken typically cross contaminated)?  So think about this . . . to maintain your supply lines and efficient use of JS collars you need 3 DS supply ships for each collar- 1 loading, 1 in transit, and 1 unloading- but those collars are also going to be how you are moving your attack forces who must gather and prepare before jumping.

Napoleon's quote is fine, but he ran up against another maxim as well . . . you go to war with what you have, not what you want to have.  This is why supply depots are built up, the centralized collection of everything a attacking force will need to cut down shipping from hundreds of different suppliers and allow the pre-packing of planned loads based on individual daily or formation use.  FREX, you are supplying a infantry company?  Depends if company or platoon is the most efficient size, but then you set those loads for how many ever days . . . so you could end up with a load that keeps a platoon supplied for a week as a 'basic' load.  Rations (20 meals a case, 3 meals a day, 7 days a week, 28 troops= 30 cases, with a half case of 'extra' for spoilage/damage), water (1 gallon a day basic, 196 gallons) either by case (3 gals) or larger containers, TP & hygiene (not calculating) . . . all of which might actually be two pallets.  Fill the rest of the container with ammo, batteries, replacement armor plates, and other sundries.  By centralizing all the load packing at a depot you make sure to avoid single point failure (all the water arrived, but none of the food made it on that transport) as well as more efficiently using your dropships & collars.  You can also build up supplies for future operations (FREX, OIE used bombs from the 80s stockpile), but you still have to move them from the depot to the frontlines.
 
The maxim is why every single Inner Sphere offensive has impressed civilian jumpships, dropships, and probably even small craft (often at ruinous 'rates' set by some government drone) that disrupts the civilian economy.  Because you can never have too many supplies moving towards the battle lines.

I am late to the discussion, but did the Marians actually acknowledge attacking the Canopians?  Otherwise it screams 'false flag' to me.  If I was the League looking to disrupt the Marians who according to my intel relies on supplies from the new Trinity (CC, MoC & Andies), hitting the transshipment point to stop any of the 3 from moving supplies would be a basic move.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 13 July 2021, 13:14:20
Huh?  The most precious commodity in BTU is the drop collar . . . it does not matter what you can produce on a planet, if you want to project power, as much as what you can move to your Area of Operations.

The average battle (not skirmish like we see on the table top) runs several hours and you use (IIRC the stats) 2.5 'units' of fire which in BT's case IIRC gets translated as 2.5 ammo load outs.  I know some of the other logistical discussions talks about basic planning requiring 60% of the armor.  Of course, all of which is the ideal IF you have the hulls & collars to move the supplies . . . otherwise you might have to go to 2 units of fire and 40% armor or other such compromises.

Just basic outline for a multi-world invasion . . . you have to move the attack units on their in-efficient assault transports, you have to move the supplies to expeditiously carry out the invasion, you have to move the garrison follow up forces, you have to move the attack forces on to their next target, and then you have to keep the garrison force in supply while pushing the attack force supplies further from your depots.

One of those things that gave Ulric Kerensky a advantage when leading the Wolves in the Invasion was that his jumpships and cargo dropships were in constant motion- even while Wolf forces were pacifying their current targets, the merchant/tech castes were establishing forward Clan supply caches in space for the next wave of targets.  And unlike modern forces, BT forces seem to forage . . . or at least requisition from local sources, though IMO that introduces security problems- how do you know those fresh vegetables were not contaminated with listeria (or whatever)?  the tomato sauce given salmonella (chicken typically cross contaminated)?  So think about this . . . to maintain your supply lines and efficient use of JS collars you need 3 DS supply ships for each collar- 1 loading, 1 in transit, and 1 unloading- but those collars are also going to be how you are moving your attack forces who must gather and prepare before jumping.

Napoleon's quote is fine, but he ran up against another maxim as well . . . you go to war with what you have, not what you want to have.  This is why supply depots are built up, the centralized collection of everything a attacking force will need to cut down shipping from hundreds of different suppliers and allow the pre-packing of planned loads based on individual daily or formation use.  FREX, you are supplying a infantry company?  Depends if company or platoon is the most efficient size, but then you set those loads for how many ever days . . . so you could end up with a load that keeps a platoon supplied for a week as a 'basic' load.  Rations (20 meals a case, 3 meals a day, 7 days a week, 28 troops= 30 cases, with a half case of 'extra' for spoilage/damage), water (1 gallon a day basic, 196 gallons) either by case (3 gals) or larger containers, TP & hygiene (not calculating) . . . all of which might actually be two pallets.  Fill the rest of the container with ammo, batteries, replacement armor plates, and other sundries.  By centralizing all the load packing at a depot you make sure to avoid single point failure (all the water arrived, but none of the food made it on that transport) as well as more efficiently using your dropships & collars.  You can also build up supplies for future operations (FREX, OIE used bombs from the 80s stockpile), but you still have to move them from the depot to the frontlines.
 
The maxim is why every single Inner Sphere offensive has impressed civilian jumpships, dropships, and probably even small craft (often at ruinous 'rates' set by some government drone) that disrupts the civilian economy.  Because you can never have too many supplies moving towards the battle lines.

I am late to the discussion, but did the Marians actually acknowledge attacking the Canopians?  Otherwise it screams 'false flag' to me.  If I was the League looking to disrupt the Marians who according to my intel relies on supplies from the new Trinity (CC, MoC & Andies), hitting the transshipment point to stop any of the 3 from moving supplies would be a basic move.

Colt Ward, precisely what I put below, the most pressing logistical contribution in an offensive in Battetech are the JS and the transport capacity of the DS that carry both troops and supplies, supplies of food or ammunition or spare parts The Hegemony can produce them or store stock to supply the troops, having a fleet of JS / DS to distribute and redistribute according to the different moments of the Military Operation is another very different issue, beyond now having two open fronts

The situation of the Rim Commonality seems strange to me that if they complain and ask for help against the Hegemony, Canopus invades them in error and they say nothing of the subject
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 13 July 2021, 13:16:57
Missed that one. I sometimes forget to read these sidebar parts after reading through the main text of the chapter. Now I am dumbfounded by later development (attack on Canopus). Did they to hope to get more gear by raiding Canopus and not waiting on delivery? Was the gear delivered on Gibraltar being stuck on planet? It answers little and makes more questions.

Yeah it helps to have a digital copy you can search Marian.  So far it's odd but you also learn Legio V was rebuilt.  Then lost a sentence later, I guess it's to make  at least one FWL force not look hopeless and it's better to randomly pull a new regiment out of the blue than to destroy a more important one? 

Huh?  The most precious commodity in BTU is the drop collar . . . it does not matter what you can produce on a planet, if you want to project power, as much as what you can move to your Area of Operations.

The average battle (not skirmish like we see on the table top) runs several hours and you use (IIRC the stats) 2.5 'units' of fire which in BT's case IIRC gets translated as 2.5 ammo load outs.  I know some of the other logistical discussions talks about basic planning requiring 60% of the armor.  Of course, all of which is the ideal IF you have the hulls & collars to move the supplies . . . otherwise you might have to go to 2 units of fire and 40% armor or other such compromises.

Just basic outline for a multi-world invasion . . . you have to move the attack units on their in-efficient assault transports, you have to move the supplies to expeditiously carry out the invasion, you have to move the garrison follow up forces, you have to move the attack forces on to their next target, and then you have to keep the garrison force in supply while pushing the attack force supplies further from your depots.

One of those things that gave Ulric Kerensky a advantage when leading the Wolves in the Invasion was that his jumpships and cargo dropships were in constant motion- even while Wolf forces were pacifying their current targets, the merchant/tech castes were establishing forward Clan supply caches in space for the next wave of targets.  And unlike modern forces, BT forces seem to forage . . . or at least requisition from local sources, though IMO that introduces security problems- how do you know those fresh vegetables were not contaminated with listeria (or whatever)?  the tomato sauce given salmonella (chicken typically cross contaminated)?  So think about this . . . to maintain your supply lines and efficient use of JS collars you need 3 DS supply ships for each collar- 1 loading, 1 in transit, and 1 unloading- but those collars are also going to be how you are moving your attack forces who must gather and prepare before jumping.

Napoleon's quote is fine, but he ran up against another maxim as well . . . you go to war with what you have, not what you want to have.  This is why supply depots are built up, the centralized collection of everything a attacking force will need to cut down shipping from hundreds of different suppliers and allow the pre-packing of planned loads based on individual daily or formation use.  FREX, you are supplying a infantry company?  Depends if company or platoon is the most efficient size, but then you set those loads for how many ever days . . . so you could end up with a load that keeps a platoon supplied for a week as a 'basic' load.  Rations (20 meals a case, 3 meals a day, 7 days a week, 28 troops= 30 cases, with a half case of 'extra' for spoilage/damage), water (1 gallon a day basic, 196 gallons) either by case (3 gals) or larger containers, TP & hygiene (not calculating) . . . all of which might actually be two pallets.  Fill the rest of the container with ammo, batteries, replacement armor plates, and other sundries.  By centralizing all the load packing at a depot you make sure to avoid single point failure (all the water arrived, but none of the food made it on that transport) as well as more efficiently using your dropships & collars.  You can also build up supplies for future operations (FREX, OIE used bombs from the 80s stockpile), but you still have to move them from the depot to the frontlines.
 
The maxim is why every single Inner Sphere offensive has impressed civilian jumpships, dropships, and probably even small craft (often at ruinous 'rates' set by some government drone) that disrupts the civilian economy.  Because you can never have too many supplies moving towards the battle lines.

I am late to the discussion, but did the Marians actually acknowledge attacking the Canopians?  Otherwise it screams 'false flag' to me.  If I was the League looking to disrupt the Marians who according to my intel relies on supplies from the new Trinity (CC, MoC & Andies), hitting the transshipment point to stop any of the 3 from moving supplies would be a basic move.

Yes, and my guess is they stalled when the supplies stopped coming in.  I'm just stating the importance of logistics over tactics, not trying to go too far into a Napoleon discussion for a group proxying for a faction I haven't heard a single Marian fan in three places say they liked.  We all seem to agree on the importance of it.  Lol.

No, there was no open acknowledgement.  It was just stated they attacked the Rim and leap frogged to Canopus space, took a few worlds along the way, then got smashed in the reprisal with the legions vanishing.  That neutral world between the MH and MoC was captured but then both factions ignored it too, adding to the confusion.  Normally I would agree on the false flag but the rec guide for the Locust further embedded that the Marians are doing it willingly attacking that way and losing a century of run down locusts when mopping up a planets militia.  You can guess whatever reasoning for it is, none of us actually know but it certainly wasn't raiding for supplies because they could have just attacked more Tamarind or Lyran worlds like they were already doing.

I missed the part where Canopus went into the Rim.  Gonna need to reread again.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 13 July 2021, 13:22:04
Yeah it helps to have a digital copy you can search Marian.  So far it's odd but you also learn Legio V was rebuilt.  Then lost a sentence later, I guess it's to make  at least one FWL force not look hopeless and it's better to randomly pull a new regiment out of the blue than to destroy a more important one? 

Yes, and my guess is they stalled when the supplies stopped coming in.  I'm just stating the important of logistics over tactics, not trying to go too far into a logistical discussion for a group proxying for a faction I haven't heard a single Marian fan in three places say they liked.

No, there was no open acknowledgement.  It was just stated they attacked the Rim and leap frogged to Canopus space.  Normally I would agree on the false flag but the rec guide for the Locust further embedded that the Marians are doing it willingly attacking that way and losing a century of run down locusts when mopping up a planets militia.  You can guess whatever reasoning for it is, none of us actually know but it certainly wasn't raiding for supplies because they could have just attacked more Tamarind or Lyran worlds like they were already doing.

I missed the part where Canopus went into the Rim.  Gonna need to reread again.


The VI Legio in Canopus is precisely a Raid in depth, they attack and take a series of worlds, they loot and recover equipment and then you retreat, very different from what Canopus has done in Islington and Ballalaba
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 13 July 2021, 13:29:22
Well, they took and held the worlds they could attack. It was the entire Legio VI and they conquered two planets as well as Thraxa before the Canopians drove off the Legion and came crashing back.  I've also said this last topic, the whereabouts of the rest of Legio IV and VI are unknown currently besides assumed raiding.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 13 July 2021, 13:31:47
Well, they took and held the worlds they could attack. It was the entire Legio VI and they conquered two planets as well as Thraxa before the Canopians drove off the Legion and came crashing back.  I've also said this last topic, the whereabouts of the rest of Legio IV and VI are unknown currently besides assumed raiding.

Thraxa was an independent world, just like Vixen and Ballad II who separated from Canopus, recently Canopus could feel attacked in Marantha or Gambilion


The VI Legio the bulk should be retreating from their raid except for the VI Caelum Wing which caused serious casualties to the invading Canopian force before retreating.
The IV Legio after its raids I suppose it will have returned to its main garrisons at Suetonius or Pompey
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 13 July 2021, 13:41:04
They were never fully driven from the Rim though.  They only left token auxiliary cohorts back on Ballaba and Islington.

And I finally looked at the part where Canopus was accepting former FWL worlds.  Still not sure what's going on there, not that I expect them to launch an invasion now.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 13 July 2021, 13:46:39
They were never fully driven from the Rim though.  They only left token auxiliary cohorts back on Ballaba and Islington.

And I finally looked at the part where Canopus was accepting former FWL worlds.  Still not sure what's going on there, not that I expect them to launch an invasion now.

The troops that were of the VI Legio and the IV Legio in Ballalaba and Islington are either Auxilia Legio (Conventional Troops) or the VI Caelum Wing in Islington that before retiring made them pay a high cost before touching land.
The Cohors of Mechs are not there, that will now fall into what will work as a counter offensive
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 13 July 2021, 13:55:33
I would expect Legio I to mobilize while the Morituri remain.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 13 July 2021, 13:59:07
I would expect Legio I to mobilize while the Morituri remain.

I believe that the VI Legio, the IV Legio and the Mortuori are going to counterattack the Canopians first, together with the Merc Regiment of the Winfield Regiment that is stationed in Suetonius. join the Counterattack against Tamarind, and that if not more mercs are hired for the emergency or more troops of reservists and retired are mobilized, which I would do
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 13 July 2021, 14:04:27
Well that entire arch was just hire as many mercs as possible.  Evidently mercs are everywhere again and everyone has infinite money to hire them.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 13 July 2021, 14:06:57
Well that entire arch was just hire as many mercs as possible.  Evidently mercs are everywhere again and everyone has infinite money to hire them.


We are talking about a logical action considering that Tamarind out of nowhere hired 4/5 merc units without a name to garrison in Landfall, Lahti, Hazeldan, Huntington, San Nicolas, what prevents us from doing the same?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 13 July 2021, 14:10:20
You already know what I'd say to that. 

Legio II has to break out of Tamarind eventually, hopefully we don't lose them in the process.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 13 July 2021, 14:15:09
You already know what I'd say to that. 

Legio II has to break out of Tamarind eventually, hopefully we don't lose them in the process.

The one in the Tamarind Territory is the III Legio, the II Legio and the I Legio are in Trasjkis, the others that are in the Gibraltar Stock Exchange are the Dragonslayers, I believe that the I Legio and the II Legio receiving reinforcements and spare parts from the Province of Alphard they could well resume systems of those occupied by Mercs and we must see what happens in the rest of the territory of Tamarind, the Wolf Territory, the Lyrans and what Nicol Marik finishes tightening.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 13 July 2021, 22:57:22
Is Legio II not behind the Tamarind lines with some pf the remaining III cohors?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 14 July 2021, 00:08:49
Nikol sanctioning Marik does not make a lot of sense outside the idea that she's struggling to control the FWL seeing as she and her mother have to rely on the Sea Foxes heavily.

I'd assumed that somebody had bought a Parliamentarian (possibly with yaun, possible with a slave harem) and that was that. Enjoy your sanctions for being the latest since the Hundred Years War to observe that it costs a lot less to counter-attack in response to a sustained raiding/conquest campaign than to defend against it indefinitely. It isn't very fair, but it's very Free Worlds League.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 14 July 2021, 00:38:53
That would imply Marik has a cheerleader and the flagship of the Marian fleet sank after embarrassing maneuvers right on their doorstep.

Now I imagine Nikol waving a banner at her enemies and the FWL grudgingly attacks them.  This has too much Davion energy now.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 14 July 2021, 09:12:08
Is Legio II not behind the Tamarind lines with some pf the remaining III cohors?

No, the II Legio and the I Legio withdraw from Illyria to Trasjkis to resupply, the III Legio is in the Gibraltar Stock Exchange with the Dragonslayers
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 14 July 2021, 10:39:34
That would imply Marik has a cheerleader and the flagship of the Marian fleet sank after embarrassing maneuvers right on their doorstep.

Now I imagine Nikol waving a banner at her enemies and the FWL grudgingly attacks them.  This has too much Davion energy now.

I meant that a plausible explanation for how Tamarind-Abbey was put under economic sanctions for responding to the Marian campaign is that somebody connected to the campaign bribed an MP in the League parliament to whip up outrage. This is more or less how the Free Worlds League works.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 15 July 2021, 01:57:08
I meant that a plausible explanation for how Tamarind-Abbey was put under economic sanctions for responding to the Marian campaign is that somebody connected to the campaign bribed an MP in the League parliament to whip up outrage. This is more or less how the Free Worlds League works.

I've only taken it at face value with Nikol's reaction.  Regardless that's rather awkward. 

No, the II Legio and the I Legio withdraw from Illyria to Trasjkis to resupply, the III Legio is in the Gibraltar Stock Exchange with the Dragonslayers

Wait, what?  Legio II was the one raiding planets for supplies which is when Legio III discovered the holes in the defenses and supply chain.  Prefect Kilgore was the one who pulled most (dunno how much is 4) of his cohorts back to Illyria before dying.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 15 July 2021, 09:34:34
Well that entire arch was just hire as many mercs as possible.  Evidently mercs are everywhere again and everyone has infinite money to hire them.

Money does not really hire mercs any longer since there is not a universal currency.  Supplies, or the equivalent House currency to buy supplies & upgrades for the duration of the contract is really the standard.  For 3132 and 3133, military forces were at a premium so it was a seller's market . . . that has since fallen off from that peak, but it is still the nature of the business.  It is better to get paid in military supplies and high value/low volume goods- like specialty liquor, spices, gems, refined metals, and electronics- than some currency that you might not even be able to exchange if you crossed a border or would be given a crap rate.

If you get paid in D-Bills, do you really expect it to have a decent exchange rate on your next contract in the League?  Sure inflation had to be bad back in Davion space, but currency is backed by 'the full faith' in the issuing government.  The FedSuns did not control their capital or 2 of the 3 March capitals for (as of 3150) most of the last 10 years at least.  You might for comparison look at the historical currency exchange rates for the losing sides in civil wars towards the end, French currency after Dunkirk but before Vichy France was established, and other similar circumstances.

I still expect the Sea Fox Kerensky (do they even still call it that?) to become the currency of trade.  It will not become as widespread as the C-bill because it cannot be exchanged as easily, but with how widespread their merchant empire is they are the most prevalent international organization remaining at this time.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 15 July 2021, 09:35:00
 

Wait, what?  Legio II was the one raiding planets for supplies which is when Legio III discovered the holes in the defenses and supply chain.  Prefect Kilgore was the one who pulled most (dunno how much is 4) of his cohorts back to Illyria before dying.

The Legio have 5 Mech Cohors, even though the II Legio was dedicated to raids, then it retreated to Illyria and withdrew from there after the death of Kilgore, and with them the I Legio that had been doing the same retired. other than Defender Illyria in the first place.
In part that the II Legio did Raids makes me a bit of noise because it is a Legio oriented to the planetary Assault more than to Raids, if you tell me the I Legio that I gained a lot of experience in Raids hunting all the pirate band that came from Circinus and beyond
They really have two places to retreat with Depots to resupply
1) Valerius
2) Trasjkis
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 15 July 2021, 10:32:20
Kilgore only took 4 cohorts with him back to Illyria, I presume they were just Legio III.  Legio II only had two (I assume out of the 3) on the planet during the invasion and Legio I had its Tertia cohort there until wiped out defending the planet, and obviously the II Caelum wing.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 15 July 2021, 10:48:20
Kilgore only took 4 cohorts with him back to Illyria, I presume they were just Legio III.  Legio II only had two (I assume out of the 3) on the planet during the invasion and Legio I had its Tertia cohort there until wiped out defending the planet, and obviously the II Caelum wing.

On the death of Kilgore the troops withdraw, he says it clearly and the II Caelum Wing dodged the confrontation to be long outnumbered, number my bet is that the II Legio is mostly intact with casualties close to a cohort, that is now replaceable with replacements and Depots teams, we must see the capacity of Kilgore's replacement, knowing of his death it is possible that either he is his second in command surely a Veteran / Elite Command or that Alphard sends a Veteran Prefect and that he knows the Legio
The I Legio also only lost one Cohort, the one that had the most casualties was the III Legio but more than its conventional component.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 15 July 2021, 11:24:53
Legio III would be the worst besides Legio V being all but destroyed.  Don't know what happened to Legio II's cohorts on Illyria if they were routed, if the govenor was captured on the run, or if he surrendered to save his men.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 15 July 2021, 11:34:39
Legio III would be the worst besides Legio V being all but destroyed.  Don't know what happened to Legio II's cohorts on Illyria if they were routed, if the govenor was captured on the run, or if he surrendered to save his men.


The Military Governor dies in combat, the troops of the II Legion after that withdraw, the civil government is captured, what happens in Illyria after that is too early to conjecture, beyond the propaganda of Tamarind, he thinks that the Ignatius's Cultural Annexation program was also made on the same province and the other worlds of it, including those that Tamarind "Liberated" and those that was assimilating the Hegemony as Lahti (He had already formed a Government in the image and likeness of the Marian according to Era Report 3145) and San Nicolas in addition to others.
I think the III Legio lost 1/2 Mech Cohorts and an Auxiliary Conventional Legion, it has 3 Cohors left, the III Caelum Wing and 1 Auxiliary Legion or 2, since the MHAf was expanding to 3 Auxiliary Legios of Conventionals for each Legio by Mechs
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 15 July 2021, 12:34:40
Military Govenor is a pow, he didn't die in combat.  Prefect Kilgore was kia trying to rescue him.  Legio II and III's whereabout's after December when the planet fell to Tamarind are unknown. 

We don't really know the casualty rates past the Legio I Tertia cohort once we get past the initial push from Tamarind.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 15 July 2021, 12:47:08
Military Govenor is a pow, he didn't die in combat.  Prefect Kilgore was kia trying to rescue him.  Legio II and III's whereabout's after December when the planet fell to Tamarind are unknown. 

We don't really know the casualty rates past the Legio I Tertia cohort once we get past the initial push from Tamarind.

If we guide ourselves as if by the art of Magic, the 7th of Tamarind recovered the entire Regiment with the same level of veterancy after two complete total casualties, the I Legio and the II Legio respawned in January.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 15 July 2021, 13:03:15
If we guide ourselves as if by the art of Magic, the 7th of Tamarind recovered the entire Regiment with the same level of veterancy after two complete total casualties, the I Legio and the II Legio respawned in January.

Just that one battalion (...just that one guy, amazingly). And there is no information on it's unit rating afterwards.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 15 July 2021, 13:07:14
Just that one battalion (...just that one guy, amazingly). And there is no information on it's unit rating afterwards.

Check, the Third Battalion and the Second Battalion are devastated in two different battles, one in Tormentine at the beginning and six months later the Second Battalion in Gibraltar, and if they are not Veterans, are you telling me that Green units can destroy Veteran units?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 15 July 2021, 13:40:32
Check, the Third Battalion and the Second Battalion are devastated in two different battles, one in Tormentine at the beginning and six months later the Second Battalion in Gibraltar, and if they are not Veterans, are you telling me that Green units can destroy Veteran units?

Nope, it was just the 3rd Battalion getting devastated. 1st Battalion threw in the towel early at Gibraltar (instead of holding until the Caballeros showed up) and so probably got off scott-free. And what happens to the Marians eventually is they reached a point where they stand their ground against superior (often with multi-regimental elements) forces (the 7th was holding hands with the 1st during the wipe on Tormentine).
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 15 July 2021, 13:54:45
Nope, it was just the 3rd Battalion getting devastated. 1st Battalion threw in the towel early at Gibraltar (instead of holding until the Caballeros showed up) and so probably got off scott-free. And what happens to the Marians eventually is they reached a point where they stand their ground against superior (often with multi-regimental elements) forces (the 7th was holding hands with the 1st during the wipe on Tormentine).

It may be but the First Battalion of the Seventh had been decimated by the time it withdrew from Gibraltar without waiting for the Camacho Caballiers.
The II Legio and the I Legio can be withdrawn and that is what the book says, we will see how much Combat capacity in IlClan or later books they want to write or give us something clearly or if everything follows in the same position or we receive a hand from Nicol or from let the hypocritical Duke of Tamarind get the memo that he has more worlds and that they are from Tamarind at hand
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 15 July 2021, 14:36:23
The more I look at Clay's response in the blurb, the more I feel like there's a FWL-Marian backdoor deal that Marik wasn't informed of. 

Reading this right, Legio II's prefect is kia with the Secunda Cohort (+ auxilary) on Landfall.  This would explain why Kilgore is in charge in FWL territory.  Since I assumed more of II's assets were intact.  So reading this correctly, there's only a handful of cohorts left behind Tamarind lines and the bulk of the invasion settled on Illyria with Marik having to pull defenses from other regions to attempt to retake the worlds the Marians are sitting on.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 15 July 2021, 14:45:45
The more I look at Clay's response in the blurb, the more I feel like there's a FWL-Marian backdoor deal that Marik wasn't informed of. 

Reading this right, Legio II's prefect is kia with the Secunda Cohort (+ auxilary) on Landfall.  This would explain why Kilgore is in charge in FWL territory. since I assumed more of II's assets were intact.  So reading this correctly, there's only a handful of cohorts left behind Tamarind lines and the bulk of the invasion settled on Illyria with Marik having to pull defenses from other regions to attempt to retake the worlds the Marians are sitting on.

Tamarind has no troops anywhere else at this time than on the Marian Frontier, there is no officially beyond a single regiment on the Lyran Frontier, there is nothing on the border with the Wolf Empire worlds and nothing on the border with Circinus, and the pirates of Circinus are dedicating themselves to looting all that area, for how long will Tamarind be able to maintain that situation, I do not know and surely it will not be making her win friends or loyalists in those worlds.
I wonder what would happen if some pirates were to destroy Galisteo or Cerrillos, what would happen for example with the Camacho Cavaliers?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 15 July 2021, 14:48:50
That is what they have the Regulan regiments doing after the surrender.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 15 July 2021, 14:52:19
It may be but the First Battalion of the Seventh had been decimated by the time it withdrew from Gibraltar without waiting for the Camacho Caballiers.

It doesn't say that, though. The indication for that matter is they didn't put up the fight they were expected too and left as soon as they grasped the odds and that it wasn't a raid.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 15 July 2021, 14:56:12
Tamarind has no troops anywhere else at this time than on the Marian Frontier, there is no officially beyond a single regiment on the Lyran Frontier, there is nothing on the border with the Wolf Empire worlds and nothing on the border with Circinus, and the pirates of Circinus are dedicating themselves to looting all that area, for how long will Tamarind be able to maintain that situation, I do not know and surely it will not be making her win friends or loyalists in those worlds.
I wonder what would happen if some pirates were to destroy Galisteo or Cerrillos, what would happen for example with the Camacho Cavaliers?

I would assume he would leave the mercs to clean up while he uses his native troops to restabilize the region.  Tamarind's entire key to the operation was zerg rushing at the best time at a point the MHAF was widely exposed using superior aerial assets.  If my wild guess has any weight, which is honestly doubtful, nobody else is going to be helping him retaking those worlds outside of mercs and independents acting against Nikol.

I think the Pirates are too busy screwing over the Lyrans to want to go into the Duchy, even if the former Circinus worlds are pirate havens.  It makes sense simply because Spina Khanate roams the FWL and the Duchy borders the Wolf Empire.  Making pirate activity that much harder going between places as opposed to the Marians which openly support them.  I doubt the Magistry privately supports any like they used to. 

And yes, Gumboot is correct in only 3rd Battalion getting hit hard.  Which I guess means the majority of the Tamarind district's military is in Illyria with Canopus having a couple regiments in Ballaba and whatsitcalled.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 15 July 2021, 16:01:17
I would assume he would leave the mercs to clean up while he uses his native troops to restabilize the region.  Tamarind's entire key to the operation was zerg rushing at the best time at a point the MHAF was widely exposed using superior aerial assets.  If my wild guess has any weight, which is honestly doubtful, nobody else is going to be helping him retaking those worlds outside of mercs and independents acting against Nikol.

I think the Pirates are too busy screwing over the Lyrans to want to go into the Duchy, even if the former Circinus worlds are pirate havens.  It makes sense simply because Spina Khanate roams the FWL and the Duchy borders the Wolf Empire.  Making pirate activity that much harder going between places as opposed to the Marians which openly support them.  I doubt the Magistry privately supports any like they used to. 

And yes, Gumboot is correct in only 3rd Battalion getting hit hard.  Which I guess means the majority of the Tamarind district's military is in Illyria with Canopus having a couple regiments in Ballaba and whatsitcalled.


Not in the Shattered Fortress itself does he comment that the pirates are sweeping the worlds of the FWL / ex Circinus Frontier reaching as far as Aylmer in their attacks and even deeper.

As for the Aerospace Superiority it can be shortened a lot if Nikol asks for ships and aerospace component to fight with Andurien
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 15 July 2021, 16:18:45
Nikol canceled any immediate plans to invade Andurien.  I assume that every asset committed is Fontaine's and at most all she can do is try to payroll the mercs from under him.  Which is completely pointless as she has no immediate plans to engage anything, I doubt Hunting Season will extend past what is in SF.  The news from Terra will probably reach her by then and we'll be back to guessing how worse off we are.  The likelihood of anything physical happening would make the FWL worse (something I don't want if it blocks the Wolves) and Tamarind won't back out because the moment the army separates to try and take worlds, the Marians will just regroup assuming it can hold off Canopus. 

So again, MoC in one door, Tamarind in the other.  No real explanation as to why we engaged one target from an uphill position of weakness.  MoC won't likely pull out unless the Capellans hit the wolves and demand for additional support, and Tamarind is so focused on fighting they've committed practically most of their assets to splitting off a corner of the Hegemony. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 15 July 2021, 16:25:11
Nikol canceled any immediate plans to invade Andurien.  I assume that every asset committed is Fontaine's and at most all she can do is try to payroll the mercs from under him.  Which is completely pointless as she has no immediate plans to engage anything, I doubt Hunting Season will extend past what is in SF.  The news from Terra will probably reach her by then and we'll be back to guessing how worse off we are.  The likelihood of anything physical happening would make the FWL worse (something I don't want if it blocks the Wolves) and Tamarind won't back out because the moment the army separates to try and take worlds, the Marians will just regroup assuming it can hold off Canopus. 

So again, MoC in one door, Tamarind in the other.  No real explanation as to why we engaged one target from an uphill position of weakness.  MoC won't likely pull out unless the Capellans hit the wolves and demand for additional support, and Tamarind is so focused on fighting they've committed practically most of their assets to splitting off a corner of the Hegemony.


We have to wait for Nikol Marik's novel and there we will see what Marik does

The two-way offensive is inexplicable, but the response from the Canopus side to some raids with something other than the same response raids is not understandable according to the attack and response logic with which there is always action between peripheral nations.

And the Fontaine thing would have to have the same purpose as Pyrrhus, winning but losing and finally collapsing his offensive, Tamarind does not have such a large fleet, the bulk of that fleet is either from Marik or they are merchant orders for an X amount of time later. They must return to their functions otherwise the trade will fall more if there are sanctions from Nikol
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 15 July 2021, 16:39:00
So hurry up and wait.  I don't think the FWL is going to rush to take out Andurien unless Nikol finds some pretty heavy concrete evidence it was them.  Which is probably what everyone suspects. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 15 July 2021, 17:21:17

Not in the Shattered Fortress itself does he comment that the pirates are sweeping the worlds of the FWL / ex Circinus Frontier reaching as far as Aylmer in their attacks and even deeper.

One of the rec guides has a Wolf Empire mechwarrior formerly of the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth that trialed for the right to paint his mech in Marik Militia colors and led a successful expedition into the ex-Circinus zone.


Quote
I doubt Hunting Season will extend past what is in SF. 

Just knowing what everyone is thinking will be a big deal. It's the difference between Dynamic Tension and Nothing Happening (those things look pretty similar).
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 15 July 2021, 17:53:10
One of the rec guides has a Wolf Empire mechwarrior formerly of the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth that trialed for the right to paint his mech in Marik Militia colors and led a successful expedition into the ex-Circinus zone.


Just knowing what everyone is thinking will be a big deal. It's the difference between Dynamic Tension and Nothing Happening (those things look pretty similar).

One of the wolf mechwarriors got caught being apart of a resistance cell wanting to go back to the FWL.  Something like that would be nice to see.

I get that, it's more or less not suspenseful if we know it's going to happen.  I'm more interested in what is going to be done about anything rather than the obvious suspicions being confirmed.  Especially since whoever did it is going to get invaded at some point.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 15 July 2021, 18:44:09
One of the wolf mechwarriors got caught being apart of a resistance cell wanting to go back to the FWL.  Something like that would be nice to see.

Not exactly. He's a Clan Warrior in good standing. He figured out how Clan culture works and fulfills his goals from within the system. So he's commanding Stars of Inner Sphere warriors, wearing the old colors, and reducing pirate bases.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 15 July 2021, 22:13:23
Am I thinking of the right pilot that got discovered?  Thought it was a female.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 18 July 2021, 23:13:35
I know something...

Have any of you thought to ponder this:

Just a random thought linked here... (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Buster)

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 19 July 2021, 04:09:54
As in using it as a militiamech?  Truth be told I don't really look at militia and industrial mechs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 19 July 2021, 10:44:30
I highly recommend taking a look. Busters are a NASTY surprise for anyone who doesn't expect an IndustrialMech to have the firepower to actually hurt a BattleMech, or to actually survive a return salvo afterwards. I'm not saying they're in any way comparable to an equivalent-weight BattleMech, but they're a lot closer than folks expect.

I see them as being useful in plenty of situations in the Hegemony. In militias (or the private forces of individual nobles), you give them to the pilots whose skills mesh the best with heavy mechs, but you don't actually have said heavies to give them. If there was a mini available, I wouldn't hesitate to paint up a few for a Cohors Morituri dice, as they've got the firepower to get their minds of missions done, without wasting advanced survivability on people who are already Dead.

Edit: Besides, what else in the Hegemony is going to bring a Gauss Rifle and 'Mech mobility to the table for less than 800BV? :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 19 July 2021, 16:25:44
the wobbie militia versions would make good supplements to the retrotech centurions. though i'd guess that if they started making Buster MOD's they use the Buster XV-M for its lower cost and easier logistics. (since LRM's, AC5's, and their ammo aren't hard to get)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 19 July 2021, 16:33:49
What books were they from? 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 19 July 2021, 16:59:33
What books were they from?
Technical Readout: Vehicle Annex Revised
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 19 July 2021, 17:09:31
The Record Sheets product for that is just mechs and exoskeletons, sadly. But it'll give you a huge selection of armed IndyMechs, on par with TRO Irregulars.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 July 2021, 10:01:03
The Overheat got me thinking . . .

The Raider's design team were engaged in illegal research in the Republic.  Bannson's organization was completely penetrated by Republic Intelligence, so the lab/production site was taken and probably most of the engineers . . .

 . . . but the Marians are supposed to be buying up whatever scraps of modern mechs, armor, BA, and aeros they can to rebuild back home.  Buyers through the Inner Sphere, probably with word having been widespread before the Blackout of their policy.  While the indications are the Raider ended up widespread and was a shade-tree mechanic put together, it is possible the MHAF buyers ended up with some- especially since apparently a typical merc upgrade is to give the thing a actual SFE with more armor.  But what if a one of the engineers from the design team ended up escaping the Republic dragnet and took a data core with them to a Marian rep for asylum?

The Raider was missing a fusion engine that caused it to be downgraded . . . the MH makes fusion engines for 50t mechs.

In your opinion would the Marians be interested in building a JL-3 Raider that resembled the original designs since they produce fusion engines?  Original design would have been 5/8/? since the JJs got cut, energy weapons (prob MLs of one flavor), RAC/2, and maybe MRM10s though they were a later 'solution' added to the design.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 20 July 2021, 10:26:32
The Raider IS beign produced in the Periphery, in the Fronc Reaches to be exact. The design got sold to almost anyone apparently.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 20 July 2021, 10:45:34
*checks the MUL*

Aww dang, you guys had me excited for a minute there...
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 July 2021, 10:51:10
The Raider IS beign produced in the Periphery, in the Fronc Reaches to be exact. The design got sold to almost anyone apparently.

Yeah, it is not in the ER:DA entry but Sarna says it was widely sold and had I guess semi-recognized upgrades- basically the common path.  Where did it say Fronc started building it?

I just figured the Marians would be a good place to seek asylum from the Republic.

And remove the tailpipes and I really like the look of the mech.  Not sure we have a mech w/ a RAC/2, MRM10s, and some flavor of MLs as a design.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 July 2021, 11:24:30
Yeah, it is not in the ER:DA entry but Sarna says it was widely sold and had I guess semi-recognized upgrades- basically the common path.  Where did it say Fronc started building it?

I just figured the Marians would be a good place to seek asylum from the Republic.

And remove the tailpipes and I really like the look of the mech.  Not sure we have a mech w/ a RAC/2, MRM10s, and some flavor of MLs as a design.

It would be a nice design to put into production and you could make some hard currency selling them to the mercenary market.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 20 July 2021, 12:38:26
Yeah, it is not in the ER:DA entry but Sarna says it was widely sold and had I guess semi-recognized upgrades- basically the common path.  Where did it say Fronc started building it?

I just figured the Marians would be a good place to seek asylum from the Republic.

And remove the tailpipes and I really like the look of the mech.  Not sure we have a mech w/ a RAC/2, MRM10s, and some flavor of MLs as a design.

IIRC, TRO 3150.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 20 July 2021, 13:19:33
Yeah, it is not in the ER:DA entry but Sarna says it was widely sold and had I guess semi-recognized upgrades- basically the common path.  Where did it say Fronc started building it?

I just figured the Marians would be a good place to seek asylum from the Republic.

And remove the tailpipes and I really like the look of the mech.  Not sure we have a mech w/ a RAC/2, MRM10s, and some flavor of MLs as a design.
depends.. would the Marians be able to make MRM's and RAC's for it? or would they mount other hardware instead?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 July 2021, 14:14:39
Well, the ER:DA fluff said the design team even had a breakthrough in the RAC/2 cooling jacket, so it would be a gain in knowledge . . . IIRC the development chain, the LACs came as a development from the RAC systems.  And they put the LAC/5 on the Gladius Mk II, I think their manufacture.

I think the TSM of the original design might be more of a stretch since I do not think they have shown any indication to produce it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 20 July 2021, 16:16:16
so probably yes to the RAC, maybe not to the MRM's, and no to the TSM..

RAC5 and some SRM's maybe?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 20 July 2021, 16:48:17
MRM is a primitive tech, its basically LRM ammo without the guidence electronics. Its repeated multiple times at the TROs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 July 2021, 17:01:47
Yeah, since they are RL-mad I figured MRMs would be fine . . .

The only other problem is I am not sure the need another medium rather than a heavy.

Then again if the new MHAF is going the route of quantity it would work with their current crops of Centurions.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 20 July 2021, 17:53:03
Another option instead of the Rac-2 would be the Ultra / 10
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 20 July 2021, 18:57:23
do the marians use any other unit that mounts MRMs? even if they technically can make them, that doesn't mean they would, especially if they have to set up an all new production line (either from scratch or repurposing an existing LRM launcher line) to make them.
while i know logistics are an issue that BT glosses over, it seems unlikely that a smaller state like the marian hegemony would go through the effort for a niche weapon system, when they could just use an existing system.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 July 2021, 20:38:39
They are supposed to use about the same things as RLs, so it is why I said the logistics and production should have been a bit easier.

UAC/10 is going to weight more than the RAC and a 'different' development tree if what I remember is correct- plus the mech is already designed to operate the RAC/2.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 20 July 2021, 20:50:51
the missiles sure.. but they'd have to build the launcher systems, which require either repurposing an existing SRM/LRM launcher line or building a new MRM one. nor is it simply a case of taking an LRM 10 or 20 and loading a different set of software and ammo.. the tonnage and crits are different which means the internal workings are different.

even if they have the capacity to build MRM systems, given their limitations compared to both SRM's and LRMs, and the fact they already have the much cheaper and easier to use and make Rocket Launcher packs, would they even bother with making MRM's?

also the marians already use the UAC10, on the Testudo (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Testudo)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 July 2021, 22:31:01
Thought that was imported?  Which does not mean they are not busy knocking it off.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 21 July 2021, 06:56:56
the missiles sure.. but they'd have to build the launcher systems, which require either repurposing an existing SRM/LRM launcher line or building a new MRM one. nor is it simply a case of taking an LRM 10 or 20 and loading a different set of software and ammo.. the tonnage and crits are different which means the internal workings are different.

even if they have the capacity to build MRM systems, given their limitations compared to both SRM's and LRMs, and the fact they already have the much cheaper and easier to use and make Rocket Launcher packs, would they even bother with making MRM's?

also the marians already use the UAC10, on the Testudo (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Testudo)

The project result for RLs was similar to MRMs but they went with it specifically because it's not a large system with complicated feeding tubes that could be retrofitted on any tank or mech easily.  I can see the Hegemony making MRMs but I feel like they'd rather dumb down the design for RLs and UACs because that's what's widely available.

That being said we could easily make simpler versions of the design here or use it to improve on the Ravager.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 21 July 2021, 08:07:45
do the marians use any other unit that mounts MRMs? even if they technically can make them, that doesn't mean they would, especially if they have to set up an all new production line (either from scratch or repurposing an existing LRM launcher line) to make them.
while i know logistics are an issue that BT glosses over, it seems unlikely that a smaller state like the marian hegemony would go through the effort for a niche weapon system, when they could just use an existing system.

They could just import them, just like building the Gladius.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 21 July 2021, 08:38:14
An MRM Gladius would be fun...

Hmmm...*do* we get access to any decent MRM vees? Not quite as hardcore as rockets, but still the same "We're kicking your ass with cheaper guns" vibe.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 July 2021, 09:03:58
Wasn't there a Saladin (MRM) that was supposed to be pretty generic?  I always kind of pegged that as being given to engineers for 'terrain rearrangement' uses.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 21 July 2021, 09:34:07
Maybe there could be a Harraser MRM, in the MUL apart from the basic one that we built since 3040 in Pompey appears the Harraser Thunderbolt maybe we will also build that variant
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 21 July 2021, 10:27:02
As with every other faction in Battletech, access does not require domestic production. We can and already do field plenty of units that we don't build ourselves.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 21 July 2021, 11:04:58
So how many drinks do we need to buy the MUL team to give us some?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 21 July 2021, 12:11:48
We already have it. (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6752/harasser-missile-platform-thunderbolt)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 21 July 2021, 12:27:01
I meant the raider and mrm stuff.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: GreekFire on 21 July 2021, 12:39:28
I only accept cold, hard cash in the form of unmarked 100$ bills.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 21 July 2021, 14:50:45
Welp.  Guess we'll have to stick to our mutual friends the rocket bois, tanks, and battlearmors.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 21 July 2021, 14:52:14
"How did the Marians get access to Leviathan Primes?"
"The same way GreekFire got his new Corvette."
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 21 July 2021, 16:19:38
"How did the Marians get access to Leviathan Primes?"
"The same way GreekFire got his new Corvette."

Ba Dum Tssshhh....https://youtu.be/bcYppAs6ZdI (https://youtu.be/bcYppAs6ZdI)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 26 July 2021, 08:30:08
What do you guys do for personal styling on your legion paints? 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Saint on 26 July 2021, 11:30:14
I made my own scheme and own unit.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 26 July 2021, 12:38:17
I don't tend to go for personal schemes usually, but I might whenever I finally get around to modeling an Aquilifer. A Cataphract holding a giant standard kinda calls for a standout scheme.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 26 July 2021, 13:12:39
Weirdo, if you want an Aquilifer, look at the one that Juodasvarnas made us for a mech of our campaign and TRO Fanmade, there is a photo or a Render in the post of Juodasvarnas in Fan Art, if it works for you I can pass it to you
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 26 July 2021, 13:54:33
No offense, but I genuinely cannot decipher one bit of what that post was trying to say.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Death_from_above on 26 July 2021, 14:01:07

I think Adacas is referring to this thread, more specifically reply 46 (on page 2) :

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-art/battletech-3d-fan-models/30/

Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 26 July 2021, 14:36:52
Thank you very much Death_from_above, that's what I mean, I have the Stl or Baldur Mekorig too if you want
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 26 July 2021, 15:31:21
That is a nice standard indeed...
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 26 July 2021, 15:51:55
Yes, it is a beautiful banner
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 26 July 2021, 22:26:33
Wow that is mighty nice.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: DOC_Agren on 28 July 2021, 12:22:06
Yes, it is a beautiful banner
I at 1st thought that was a Massive weapon...
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 30 July 2021, 23:10:22
So Gibraltar is mentioned in the ToC for Ilclan saucebook.  Any guesses as to how that pans out?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 31 July 2021, 08:04:08
I really need to go back and memorize Shattered Fortress so that I know what on earth you guys are talking about...
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 31 July 2021, 10:06:53
I really need to go back and memorize Shattered Fortress so that I know what on earth you guys are talking about...


(https://i.ibb.co/TMV2B6V/227200473-165321522239815-3257410764131964533-n.png) (https://ibb.co/JjftRVf)
(https://i.ibb.co/28zHhn6/223364867-1259920867771583-662589478819915692-n.png) (https://ibb.co/z83Dxn5)

While looks like the current MH-FWL situation is covered on page 115, i am more worried by whats on page 116....
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 31 July 2021, 10:16:35
Again, my reference was to unfamiliarity with Shattered Fortress. Can someone give me a refresher(without bias or commentary as to where anything was a good idea or stupid) as to what's going on there?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 31 July 2021, 10:21:55
Again, my reference was to unfamiliarity with Shattered Fortress. Can someone give me a refresher(without bias or commentary as to where anything was a good idea or stupid) as to what's going on there?

MH had a sudden case of idiocy and began to try to conquer multiple world in multiple fronts. In the FWL front Gibraltar was one of the most important worlds taken. By 3150 the Tamarind counter-offensive retook almost all of those worls and even invaded the MH taking Illyria, but there is still a small surrounded island consisting og Gibraltar, Lepaterique and Atzenburg.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 31 July 2021, 10:33:01
So the answer to my request was "No." Gotcha, thanks. I'll look it up myself in whichever month I get any personal time.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 31 July 2021, 14:54:50
So Gibraltar is mentioned in the ToC for Ilclan saucebook.  Any guesses as to how that pans out?

Unequivocally and without dissimulation... it could go either way. Tamarind-Abbey has a brigade, and it's on Illyria. They can order around some of the Free Worlds Guards, and those are by Lyran space. The Gibraltar pocket was used to supply troops for a failed relief of Illyria, but who knows what got stuck there. I think the theatre is a cripple fight, nothing up against nobody. Planets can change hands quickly.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 31 July 2021, 17:44:08
Again, my reference was to unfamiliarity with Shattered Fortress. Can someone give me a refresher(without bias or commentary as to where anything was a good idea or stupid) as to what's going on there?

The real answer is we don't know once the initial invasion tapers off.

Marians get paid by Capellans to attack Tamarind to pull the FWL from invading Andurien.  FWL tries to counterattack but stalls out.  Few years later the Marians stop raiding and pulls out a bit and sends Legio IV to attack the Rim, and Legio VI to attack Canopus.  There is no explanation why apart from a small detail blurb and a mock politiblurb.

Canopus counter invades, pushes the Marians out and takes two worlds with minimal resistance.  As the Marians back is turned, Tamarind practically bankrupts itself hiring outside help and invades the Marians and gets as far as Illyria dumping 3 regiments into the territory while Legio II and III are taking worlds behind their lines.

Marians end up losing Illyria at years end while almost all of Tamarind's forces are there, and Tamarind is sending border forces from the other side of the province to attempt to retake the Gibraltar systems.  Parliament sanctioned Tamarind for launching an unauthorized invasion which will probably bite them later since independents are trying to supply them.

We have no idea why the second half of this happened, speculation paints (my personal opinion now) someone is either profiting from Tamarind's demise in the FWL or Parliament convinced the Marians to break off and draw out Canopus so the FWL can prepare it's invasion of Andurien. 

The politiblurb from the Taurians about the Marians getting bored doesn't make sense, but challenging Canopus over Rim territory reinforces my speculation in a bizarre way that they might have disengaged without withdrawing completely.  Capellans push for Terra might have cut the Marians off from the agreed supplies and the FWL might have negotiated without telling its member states, as Clay in parliament is condoning Tamarind for going rogue.  Or, I'm just throwing random crap at the wall and Marian leadership really is that stupid.

Unequivocally and without dissimulation... it could go either way. Tamarind-Abbey has a brigade, and it's on Illyria. They can order around some of the Free Worlds Guards, and those are by Lyran space. The Gibraltar pocket was used to supply troops for a failed relief of Illyria, but who knows what got stuck there. I think the theatre is a cripple fight, nothing up against nobody. Planets can change hands quickly.

My money is on the Marians losing and the FWL going back to bickering till standstill. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Starfury on 01 August 2021, 07:25:12
Or the Marians pull back from the Ilyrian province, letting the FWL annex the world's seized by Tamarind in return for a peace treaty. The Leauge will need all the resources they can get once the rest of the Clans decide to join Clan Wolf in enforcing the rule the new Ilclan, and the Hegemony is a distraction from that.
 Given how much of their material comes from either the Leauge or the Lyrans, I can't see any further offensives being useful for the Hegemony.  The Lyrans are going to be scrambling to prevent more losses like the Timbuktu Republic and Tamar, so they'll need all the material they can get to preserve the core of the Commonwealth.

The Capellans and the Canopians aren't going to be too generous in donating stuff to the Hegemomy after the raids/attacks on Canopus either (military attacks do that).  The Caesar may just cut his losses, sign a peace treaty preserving the remainder of the MH, and continue to develop more internal resources for access to gear, plus purchasing things from Andurien or whomever they can finagle stuff from.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Saint on 01 August 2021, 10:19:06
A third option is Gibraltar becomes a quagmire for both sides. They end up at the peace table and return the three systems held by each to their former powers.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 01 August 2021, 16:05:40
Or the Marians pull back from the Ilyrian province, letting the FWL annex the world's seized by Tamarind in return for a peace treaty. The Leauge will need all the resources they can get once the rest of the Clans decide to join Clan Wolf in enforcing the rule the new Ilclan, and the Hegemony is a distraction from that.
 Given how much of their material comes from either the Leauge or the Lyrans, I can't see any further offensives being useful for the Hegemony.  The Lyrans are going to be scrambling to prevent more losses like the Timbuktu Republic and Tamar, so they'll need all the material they can get to preserve the core of the Commonwealth.

The Capellans and the Canopians aren't going to be too generous in donating stuff to the Hegemomy after the raids/attacks on Canopus either (military attacks do that).  The Caesar may just cut his losses, sign a peace treaty preserving the remainder of the MH, and continue to develop more internal resources for access to gear, plus purchasing things from Andurien or whomever they can finagle stuff from.

FWL doesn't want Illyria or even the old FWL worlds, Parliament sanctioned Tamarind until it withdraws from all MH territory.  I highly doubt Andurien will trade with the MH if it's held in union by the MoC.  That would be like Croatia helping the Mongolians while Bela is currently running fort to fort from them.  I also doubt the MH wants the former Circinus worlds to be split from the MH and stuck between the FWL and Lothian League.

A third option is Gibraltar becomes a quagmire for both sides. They end up at the peace table and return the three systems held by each to their former powers.

Magistry already took back all the worlds it lost, although they didn't expand to said independent worlds.  Marians also abandoned Thraxa even though no one fought for it.  I could see that with the FWL if Nikol manages to curb the air control and Tamarind loses the fight to retake Gibaltar, but I suspect Legio II will lose there anyway.  I don't see the Magistry wanting a protracted war against an enemy that can regroup while it's husband union is at risk of invasion from the FWL and it's parent ally is marching to Terra.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 02 August 2021, 01:04:35
A third option is Gibraltar becomes a quagmire for both sides. They end up at the peace table and return the three systems held by each to their former powers.

Status quo ante bellum. This would be preferable.

Realistically, the Hegemony should send an embassy to Clan Wolf to pressure the League for a favourable outcome.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 02 August 2021, 07:19:19
I would really prefer to not to involve the Clans at this stage. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 02 August 2021, 10:33:32
They are the only ones who have the strength and interest to help the Hegemony against the neoFWL.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 02 August 2021, 10:44:28
Looking for allies from more self-absorbed conquerors is only going to cause more problems for the periphery later.  Granted we shot off our only clemency of help by redirecting to Canopus, but there are other ways of getting pressure out.  Unless of course there happens to be no pirate and mercenary forces available now.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 02 August 2021, 14:37:59
Looking for allies from more self-absorbed conquerors is only going to cause more problems for the periphery later.  Granted we shot off our only clemency of help by redirecting to Canopus, but there are other ways of getting pressure out.  Unless of course there happens to be no pirate and mercenary forces available now.


Mercs are always available, if you have the tickets or something that has value to pay them, pirates and privatters are always there too, although they are not the most reliable troop (pirates), provision of equipment for a price surely they are Hoa can always provide them, knowing provided that its main buyer will be Lyra although not the only one.
Neither Canopus, nor the NeoFWL nor Capela are trustworthy in anything, nor to trade anything at all, if the Hegemony were saved from a capital mutilation I would prohibit all trade with them, nothing good came from them or will come.
I would begin to close trade agreements with Lyra, the Republic of Timboktu and any other proto-state that separates from Lyra, having done this, begin to colonize outwards from both the Alphard Province and the Valerius Zone if it does not occur to them. give it to Lothario, Marik or anyone else who is out there

As for the Clans, minimum contact, if Sea Fox merchants pass, you can buy something, but 0 rights to nothing in the Hegemony, 0 presence of eyes and ears of the IlClan in our territory.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 02 August 2021, 17:33:28
Sea Fox will just attack you if you don't allow them to sell their overpriced wares.  However it's still good to allow them around because freedom of trade is important too.

I agree on branching out to the splitting Lyrans and the New Rim Worlds Republic Timbuktu Collective.  I would also say improve relations to Illyria, the Rim, and Taurians. 

Unless Ignatius pulls something out of his ass to not lose significant portions of territory, I wouldn't be surprised if Legio I doesn't pull a Commodus on him.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 04 August 2021, 01:01:10
The Clans are far away and not interested in conquering the Hegemony. That's way better than factions that share borders and constantly threaten the Hegemony.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 04 August 2021, 08:26:08
The Clans are far away and not interested in conquering the Hegemony.

Dangit, I did *not* need to laugh that hard this early in the morning! :toofunny:


The Crusaders won. *Everybody* is on the To Be Conquered list. Pointing them at the League and Commonwealth might buy us a few decades(a century, tops), and it's possible diplomacy plus a few good showings on the battlefield might make it a softer conquest than in other places, but I still don't see any result that keeps the Hegemony independent in the very long run.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 August 2021, 09:19:00
Dangit, I did *not* need to laugh that hard this early in the morning! :toofunny:


The Crusaders won. *Everybody* is on the To Be Conquered list. Pointing them at the League and Commonwealth might buy us a few decades(a century, tops), and it's possible diplomacy plus a few good showings on the battlefield might make it a softer conquest than in other places, but I still don't see any result that keeps the Hegemony independent in the very long run.

 . . . yeah, they want to restore the STAR LEAGUE . . . which started off by launching the Reunification War to bring all humanity under one government (because that is always a good idea . . . ) and while Alaric blames the Great Houses for the fall, like others in the Clans, there is no guarantee that any successor will leave the Periphery alone once Phase 1 of the Kerensky Vision is complete.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 04 August 2021, 09:24:53
The Clans cannot function without someone to conquer, or the promise of future conquest. I suspect that in the very long run they'll succeed in uniting everyone in sight under their banner, and that's when the pressures of their society will make everything fall apart.

That's when everybody else(Hegemony included) gets their second chance. >:D
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 04 August 2021, 10:30:55
You're both talking about a possible distant future. In the short term, negotiating with Alaric is the best way to help the Hegemony out of the current mess.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 August 2021, 11:34:16
You're both talking about a possible distant future. In the short term, negotiating with Alaric is the best way to help the Hegemony out of the current mess.

Or he decides that when he kicks off a FWL campaign in 5 years, he wants to hit them from around 70% of the edge of the territory- Republic & Empire and now add in the periphery wing with the MH.  It comes down to the simple fact it is never good to be noticed by a predator higher up the food chain.

Honestly, culturally the MH and CC would be easier to integrate to the Clan system than many of the other factions in the game.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 04 August 2021, 13:01:23
Very true. Shoot a bunch of patricians until the rest get the hint that their time on top is over, and life likely won't change much for the plebians, especially if the IlClan takes the same light approach to local populations as most of the more successful Clans in the IS have done. The entire slave class will likely see a huge benefit to Clan rule.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 04 August 2021, 15:44:28
Yeah, no.  I'd rather go back to Warhammer than see that crapshoot go to the periphery.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 05 August 2021, 08:23:11
If Battletech has taught me anything, it's patience. We lost Marauders, we got Marauders back. The Free Worlds League fell, we got the League back. Hell, even the two or three Jaguar fans that statistically had to be out there got their faction back.

If the Hegemony falls, it's just an opportunity for us to resurrect it, even crankier and goofier than ever! :thumbsup:

It's either that, or we move our capital, develop an unhealthy fascination with Inferno rounds, and finally figure out how to pronounce Greek names. :)


Hmmm... That's an interesting question for a discussion. Let's assume that the historical parallels become too much to resist, and Space Alaric turns his attention to Space Rome, even if only for the laughs. What's your preferred option for Byzantium?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Metallgewitter on 05 August 2021, 08:56:05
. . . yeah, they want to restore the STAR LEAGUE . . . which started off by launching the Reunification War to bring all humanity under one government (because that is always a good idea . . . ) and while Alaric blames the Great Houses for the fall, like others in the Clans, there is no guarantee that any successor will leave the Periphery alone once Phase 1 of the Kerensky Vision is complete.

The question would be if the reborn "Star League" would consider the Hegemony even be worthy of getting conquered. During the old Star League days the Star League left the Iliyran Palatinate alone despite them being around for a long time. And the current landscape would be: the Outworlds Allince are basically Clan. The Concordat? Not worth much, even if they merge with the Protectorate again. The Fronc Reaches? Are they even a threat? The only Periphery state that should start sewating bullets would be the Magistracy thanks to their ties with the Capellans (not to mention being the most powerful Periphery state). And it comes the question if a new League can even be formed. Fight against everyone? I doubt the Clans have that much manpower or firepower even if Alaric has sealed himself on Terra. Alaric would need to make alliances (like Cameron did with Houses Marik and Liao for a start)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 August 2021, 10:14:00
IIRC the Illyrians were a post-SL/Reunification War creation, with their history backfilled to that point.  They escaped the Reunification War b/c they were a client of the League?

Alaric wants a slow grinding campaign that gives the Clan warriors combat for decades so his not going to try to eat the rest of Human space at once.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 August 2021, 10:40:46
Apparently Canopus' slave trade has been retconned out.

The Hegemony's mistreatment continues while certain other factions are being pandered to. The Canopians get turned from a typical prosperous Periphery state with a dark side into a "Good Guy" faction that has slavery retconned out.

Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 August 2021, 12:28:07
Apparently Canopus' slave trade has been retconned out.

The Hegemony's mistreatment continues while certain other factions are being pandered to. The Canopians get turned from a typical prosperous Periphery state with a dark side into a "Good Guy" faction that has slavery retconned out.

They are Capellan allies, how could they be construed as good guys?

Besides TC and MoC have always been the showboats of the Periphery, and joining the Trinity Alliance just increased that involvement in the IS politics.

Folks need to stop construing indifference for malice- hate it all you want, but the Hegemony just does not matter to the BTU narrative 99.5% of the time.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 05 August 2021, 12:32:09
They are Capellan allies, how could they be construed as good guys?

Besides TC and MoC have always been the showboats of the Periphery, and joining the Trinity Alliance just increased that involvement in the IS politics.

Folks need to stop construing indifference for malice- hate it all you want, but the Hegemony just does not matter to the BTU narrative 99.5% of the time.

Just to be the occasional punching bag to show off with right? What irritates the most is that they solved their complaint from a book 9 years ago or more and when we ask for some lines of mechs or tanks we are stalkers
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 05 August 2021, 14:03:33
What irritates the most is that they solved their complaint from a book 9 years ago or more and when we ask for some lines of mechs or tanks we are stalkers

Do you have any links that explain either of these, because I have no clue what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 05 August 2021, 14:52:55
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/handbook-major-periphery-states/msg1747857/#msg1747857
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 05 August 2021, 14:57:09
Do you have any links that explain either of these, because I have no clue what you're talking about.

What i think Adacas is trying to explain is that while the Hegemony fans were trying for years to get a clear answer to the Commando and Locust lines in 3067 that were later ignored in favor of the primitive Centurion, the Canopians fans complained (or in this case, A canopian fan) loud enough in another place so what it was bothering them (the HB:MPS having a entry for MoC slave salaries) was retconned as a "errata".
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 05 August 2021, 16:13:07
The MoC "slavery" thing was itself a retcon.  No mention of it was in the original sourcebook, or anything else for that matter, until that one line for slave salaries.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 06 August 2021, 01:26:33
What i think Adacas is trying to explain is that while the Hegemony fans were trying for years to get a clear answer to the Commando and Locust lines in 3067 that were later ignored in favor of the primitive Centurion, the Canopians fans complained (or in this case, A canopian fan) loud enough in another place so what it was bothering them (the HB:MPS having a entry for MoC slave salaries) was retconned as a "errata".

Thank you for the explanation, because the link that was posted with absolutely no context or elaboration told me absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 06 August 2021, 01:58:14
They are Capellan allies, how could they be construed as good guys?

Besides TC and MoC have always been the showboats of the Periphery, and joining the Trinity Alliance just increased that involvement in the IS politics.

Folks need to stop construing indifference for malice- hate it all you want, but the Hegemony just does not matter to the BTU narrative 99.5% of the time.

Abolishing slavery is a positive thing in 21st century Western society. Hence, "good guys".

Yeah, the Hegemony does not matter to the narrative, which has been clearly demonstrated time and again. However, this doesn't stop micro-states that also don't matter (New St Andrews, Rim Collection, Fronc, Randis, Filtvelt, Rim Territories) from getting far better things over a sustained period of development.

Contrast the Hegemony getting the Centurion MilitiaMech and rebooted Locusts piloted by frontline regulars that are downed by podunk while every single faction in the previous paragraph bar NSA and Hegemony getting standard to SL Tech Mech production lines. Oh yes, said rebooted Locusts even initially come deployed in Lances instead of Centuries.

Of course, that all pales in comparison to nomadic horde factions getting Clantech cheese, cutting-edge designs that are often Omnis. Even their standard designs are state of the art  ::)

And people still support the idea that it's "normal" for the Hegemony to fight among the beggars for Retro RL crap.

Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 06 August 2021, 15:31:43
The Gibraltar Stock Exchange is well lost, there is a fight but the mercs let the MHAF troops withdraw without persecution and let them go, and apparently Tamarindo is going to have another problem on its other border (finally), I hope we can recover something when that happens

While Canopus / Andurien is doing well and they continue to add planets but nothing happens there, not even a movement of FWL troops
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 06 August 2021, 16:35:33
Don't forget your spoiler tags.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 06 August 2021, 17:42:51
Fixed
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 09 August 2021, 13:29:09
The MoC "slavery" thing was itself a retcon.  No mention of it was in the original sourcebook, or anything else for that matter, until that one line for slave salaries.

It was added for voluntary servitude. Herb and I had a discussion and while owning slaves wasn't in the style of the Magistracy, the ultimate in personal freedom would be the ability to surrender that freedom and voluntarily become a slave. It just didn't get explained in the ensuing sourcebook.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Turaglas on 12 August 2021, 00:52:31
If Battletech has taught me anything, it's patience. We lost Marauders, we got Marauders back. The Free Worlds League fell, we got the League back. Hell, even the two or three Jaguar fans that statistically had to be out there got their faction back.

If the Hegemony falls, it's just an opportunity for us to resurrect it, even crankier and goofier than ever! :thumbsup:

It's either that, or we move our capital, develop an unhealthy fascination with Inferno rounds, and finally figure out how to pronounce Greek names. :)


Hmmm... That's an interesting question for a discussion. Let's assume that the historical parallels become too much to resist, and Space Alaric turns his attention to Space Rome, even if only for the laughs. What's your preferred option for Byzantium?

History teaches us that it repeats itself in cylical rythm.  If the official stance from CGL is the periphery doesn't matter, then the circlejerk that spent a decade in dev hell won't change until the porchrockers and writers behind it change their stance on it.  A Byzantium would have to follow the MH taking in SL tech and cease being a Retrotech meme.  If Adhara and Alphard are lost, then the Hegemony will lose any military industry it has and go back to being Pirates completely unless someone handwaives them getting the industrial output to make new things rather than having a plot dump crack open shipments and ancient lost caches.

Experience has taught me waiting on setting equilibrium is pointless, so rather than try to make my own Pirate/Merc faction or AU I'm just going to close out the investment and try elsewhere.  Again.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: DavyJones on 12 August 2021, 10:00:50
Returning after a long hiatus . Sorry Weirdo you may want to check the MUL for the Hegemony  also
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 12 August 2021, 13:25:44
*tired sigh*

What did they do now...
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: GreekFire on 12 August 2021, 13:32:39
...nothing. The Marian lists are exactly the same as they've been.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 12 August 2021, 13:44:45
For future acquisitions for the MUL Marian List we have to wait for the Rec Guide to restart ..., will that be at the end of this month?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 12 August 2021, 15:15:45
Have you guys thought of thinking that maybe the Free world League refugees might head the MH way, escaping the destruction soon to come in 3100?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 12 August 2021, 16:34:12
Have you guys thought of thinking that maybe the Free world League refugees might head the MH way, escaping the destruction soon to come in 3100?

TT

Personally, I thought about it, maybe a first wave of refugees of that style are Regulans, the issue is that I don't know if the Hegemony will happily receive anyone, the Regulans possibly, and some very specific cases but I don't know about the rest.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 03 September 2021, 16:49:14
According to what can be seen that is commented in Tamar Rising and Empire Alonela FWL will have its troops placed in other front, so there would be chances to recover what was lost.
And indirectly it would not be surprising that Capela even asks Canopus for troops to raid the Wolf Empire, so that we could well recover worlds

And in Battletech Universe, which I think is a kind of Era Report IlClan Early Years, maybe we could have more news about our beloved Marian Hegemony because they don't dedicate as many books to us as they do to others (Except to mention beatings that give us that if)

And I'm still hoping against all odds, some mention of some mech that is made in the Marian Hegemony in the Rec Guide and some good mention of our troops, not something like the bad fool in the movie or the bad idiot who trips over his feet.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 04 September 2021, 00:41:37
It's true that with the Wolf-neoFWL war it would leave Tamarind even more isolated and a good chance for a Marian counterattack to succeed.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 04 September 2021, 15:42:35
It's true that with the Wolf-neoFWL war it would leave Tamarind even more isolated and a good chance for a Marian counterattack to succeed.

It is not only the isolation in which the troops would fall on the Marian front, but there are several systems that Tamarindo itself would be interested in recovering with much more strategic and political value than the frontier worlds for which it fought, apart from if they do, Lyra will advance. also towards them or Regulus or the Sharks or many others, the systems that they snatched from us and almost all the rest of the border in comparison are expendable, and in the case of the same FWL I do not know how far it will keep its mercs in the area having so many worlds to storm
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 September 2021, 05:10:09
I doubt the Duke will abandon his Marian gains that easily. His troops fought so hard for it, if they get pointed at a new war while losing these Marian gains, they will mutiny.

Still, the inevitable Clan victory gives me hope the neoFWL will be crippled to allow a Marian counteroffensive, preferably coordinated with the Clans.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 05 September 2021, 11:59:37
This is more of long-term problem (and I think it is a big long-term problem); the Wolf Empire shouldn't be able to project force and the League offensive is cast as something akin to the Victoria War or the Andurien/Canopan attack on the Capellans back before the Clan Invasion. Tamarind's issue is the imminent Lyran offensive on Bolan.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 05 September 2021, 15:28:54
As I said some time ago, the pressure of Tamarindo and the FWL in the Border area could not be maintained in time, between the offensive and Bolan, and if to that we add the opportunity to recover worlds occupied by the Wolf Empire with its factories. and strategic or symbolic importance I do not think they maintain a number higher than 25% of what they currently have and if we add to that the fact that the FWL and Nicol will not send troops to Marian worlds the question becomes even more complicated, he even asked me how many of the mercs commanded by the FWL will remain in the area after the war breaks out in the Wolf Empire
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 05 September 2021, 15:33:19
Unless of course they make use of some Plot Armor measure and that more people attack us or do something in the Marian Hegemony to keep it weak, defensive and without fighting spirit, everything is in the hands of the writers of course.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 05 September 2021, 15:42:27
Unless of course they make use of some Plot Armor measure and that more people attack us or do something in the Marian Hegemony to keep it weak, defensive and without fighting spirit, everything is in the hands of the writers of course.

Or the Duchy of Tamarind could decide it's clearly in its best interests to hold onto Illyria (given the factories and paradoxically more friendly local population (something of a self-aware pun, there)), and if the forces available against the Lyrans after ensuring that aren't sufficient for the task, figure out how to at least drag out the process of losing Bolan.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 05 September 2021, 15:56:26
Or the Duchy of Tamarind could decide it's clearly in its best interests to hold onto Illyria (given the factories and paradoxically more friendly local population (something of a self-aware pun, there)), and if the forces available against the Lyrans after ensuring that aren't sufficient for the task, figure out how to at least drag out the process of losing Bolan.

First Question, Factory in singular only BA are manufactured there, it would be necessary to find out which ones because the Marauder and Ravager are from Marian Arms, and that factory is from ATC.
Second Question I do not know Bolan and the worlds closest to Tamarind seem a little more interesting to me, security of the Duchy and those things
Third Question Is Tamarind going to let the Cameron / Jones keep systems that were Tamarind's? Interesting, particularly those with factories
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 07 September 2021, 17:34:42
[(https://i.postimg.cc/65KGMnzT/FB-IMG-1631020774081.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YjX9945w)]


Corps of Instruction of Cadets Gregarius in a College of the Marian Hegemony in their History Class circa 3151

Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 08 September 2021, 00:36:20
[(https://i.postimg.cc/65KGMnzT/FB-IMG-1631020774081.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YjX9945w)]


Corps of Instruction of Cadets Gregarius in a College of the Marian Hegemony in their History Class circa 3151

Ensuring Marian children are schooled in Roman history and patriotism
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 08 September 2021, 00:37:37
All eyes are now on how much the neoFWL will be crippled by the Clans and how far the Hegemony can progress in such a situation(unless, as Adacas has already pointed out, what kind of contrivance comes up to stifle the Hegemony this time)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Geont on 08 September 2021, 00:41:27
All eyes are now on how much the neoFWL will be crippled by the Clans and how far the Hegemony can progress in such a situation(unless, as Adacas has already pointed out, what kind of contrivance comes up to stifle the Hegemony this time)
Coup d'etat?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 08 September 2021, 06:21:30
Coup d'etat?
That would be the easy way out of the authors for the Marian Hegemony to do nothing at all and sink into insignificance instead of making a general call to MHAF Retirees, making a Consolidation Decree for non-Patricians to get hooked and achieve the Patrician Caste or Non-Nationals to achieve Citizenship and manage to arm at least two more Legio and replace all casualties.
If in all the IS and the Periphery any group of retirees makes you an veteran unit, I do not see why in the Hegemony it cannot be the same.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 08 September 2021, 22:07:48
Shouldn't Fontaine be the one to suffer a coup? He engaged in an unsanctioned war and left his entire frontier unguarded.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 09 September 2021, 09:23:29
Shouldn't Fontaine be the one to suffer a coup? He engaged in an unsanctioned war and left his entire frontier unguarded.

I do not know if there is a coup, but if the Lyrans ravage several systems and cause a lot of damage, their political capital will go down a lot and if they have to divide troops and lose part of them in one or the other front that will be even worse.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 September 2021, 09:32:40
I am actually wondering if the League hits the Wolf Empire b/c Fontaine kicks it off since Nikol last we saw was more focused on getting Andurien back in the band.  Personally, with just the announced set up of Tamar Rising, if they follow that pattern it will not just be the League & Empire, but other surrounding powers.  Heck, we could see the rogue Lyran splinter state nibble at the Empire's periphery-ward holdings.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 09 September 2021, 09:45:35
I am actually wondering if the League hits the Wolf Empire b/c Fontaine kicks it off since Nikol last we saw was more focused on getting Andurien back in the band.  Personally, with just the announced set up of Tamar Rising, if they follow that pattern it will not just be the League & Empire, but other surrounding powers.  Heck, we could see the rogue Lyran splinter state nibble at the Empire's periphery-ward holdings.

I would not rule out that Fontaine throws himself headfirst on those worlds of Tamarind that the Wolves took from them, and that would already be his third consecutive war / military offensive, his troops should in any universe exhausted and at the limit of their possibilities. If that were to happen, I do not see how the Marian Hegemony could not recover the lost worlds
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 September 2021, 10:07:07
The other option is Kenyon, which might piss off Fontaine as it pulls resources from 'his' fight . . . starting up the traditional League sports- Marik Rivalry Games!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 09 September 2021, 11:07:18
The other option is Kenyon, which might piss off Fontaine as it pulls resources from 'his' fight . . . starting up the traditional League sports- Marik Rivalry Games!

Jajajajaj, who threw the two heads to it, the more entertaining you are, more resources better compromise for us, more chances of recovering territory and maybe snatch some more, the issue is that we can consolidate the recovery of the Legio and increase them, already It is forzitozo of total need to recover the V Legio and expand the MHAF with another Legio more inclusive, and I hope that the authors pull us more dates from what we are producing because doing calculations of expanding in the air is not the best.
Since the hegemony does not have the capacity to build a number of fighters more than shilone is frustrating and the same not having some dropship in manufacturing even if it was load, it limits us too much in the logistic chain
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 September 2021, 11:26:36
Lol, I kept hoping they would resurrect the Black Eagle . . . because, Eagle.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 09 September 2021, 12:11:15
Lol, I kept hoping they would resurrect the Black Eagle . . . because, Eagle.

I remember I think that time ago I commented, making a rebuild of the Black Eagle would be nice, I would conform with doing union, vulture and maybe something evolved from this last one to make a light pws but that in the future with having union, Vampire modernized and Mule We would already be fine to start progressing both military logistics and expanding trade capabilities
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 15 September 2021, 20:21:20
I would not rule out that Fontaine throws himself headfirst on those worlds of Tamarind that the Wolves took from them, and that would already be his third consecutive war / military offensive, his troops should in any universe exhausted and at the limit of their possibilities. If that were to happen, I do not see how the Marian Hegemony could not recover the lost worlds

The Wolves took one Tamarind-Abbey world. I believe the sentiment from the fluff on it is that they're welcome to keep it; it was one of those border-system basket-cases full of troublemakers.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 15 October 2021, 21:07:04
Seeing what came out in the last Rec Guide I say that hopefully some variant of Scorpion or Spider but nothing else.
As for Fluff, we are still the mockery of the writers
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 16 October 2021, 01:08:14
Seeing what came out in the last Rec Guide I say that hopefully some variant of Scorpion or Spider but nothing else.
As for Fluff, we are still the mockery of the writers

Didn't you guys just get some nice new Centurion MilitiaMechs in Tech Readout: Irregulars that you can use to fill out your second-line forces and are exporting for extra money?

I mean, I get wanting all the new toys.  I do - I check each one of these for mentions of Niops.  But your Periphery faction not getting one of the shiny new toys doesn't mean it's the mockery of the writers.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 16 October 2021, 01:24:23
As for Fluff, we are still the mockery of the writers

You see it as mockery, not we. Don't pull the rest of the Marian fandom into this thing you've got going.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 16 October 2021, 05:38:35
Adacas has a point when so much writing about the Hegemony is using them as convenient designated villains and whipping boys for whatever neighbouring hero that's on the current agenda.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 16 October 2021, 10:42:10
They're smaller than everybody else in the neighborhood, but have never shown any inclination that they know how to act like it. How did you *think* they were going to act, like Ghost Bears?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 16 October 2021, 17:39:16
Didn't you guys just get some nice new Centurion MilitiaMechs in Tech Readout: Irregulars that you can use to fill out your second-line forces and are exporting for extra money?

I mean, I get wanting all the new toys.  I do - I check each one of these for mentions of Niops.  But your Periphery faction not getting one of the shiny new toys doesn't mean it's the mockery of the writers.

We go by parts my comments on the Scorpion and the Spider was to see if we received it in the list of the MUL as options for the MHAF.

As for the Centurion Militiamech if it is nice for militias and perhaps basic trainer but it is not a mech that can fight as equals in an open war, except as a guerrilla and for a short time and only if you ask me the H3H version, the rest in modern warfare is an expensive coffin.
It is a good industry mech / militia mech but it is not a mech, apart from that it was produced during the time that the Republic did not want excess mechs to be produced and it sold well at the time.

The thing about the writers is because again in the fluff we appear as the useless bad guy who trips over his shoes and is run off the planet by a mechwarrior and a gang of raggedy men, I mean 3/3 stories we are the bad and useless of the neighborhood, that goes without saying that one of the stories seems that they wrote it without having any idea of what the hegemony is, its military organization or its punishment system

Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: rebs on 16 October 2021, 23:41:25
Yeah...The Marian Hegemony is one step above Space Pirates.  What part of Space Pirates says "Good Guise"?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Elmoth on 17 October 2021, 11:14:06
You can.always try to submit a story to shrapnel to show other perspectives on the MH.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 October 2021, 11:20:31
You can.always try to submit a story to shrapnel to show other perspectives on the MH.
Which Story in which Sharpell because the only thing I saw is a story from the beginning of a Destiny scenario
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 October 2021, 11:58:19
There are scenarios for Destiny?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 October 2021, 12:57:05
You can.always try to submit a story to shrapnel to show other perspectives on the MH.

I know at least 12 people who have sent material to Sharpell about the Marian Hegemony with very dissimilar points of view. I have not seen any of that published.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 October 2021, 13:01:02
There are scenarios for Destiny?

Look at Sharpell 6, there the Hegemony appears as an antagonist because in that scenario they are mercs working for the NFWL that hires you to prove that a popular candidate with Kendall's secessionist ideas is supported economically / politically and militarily by the Marian Hegemony, I consider that as part of some operation of the Ordo vigilis, it is in the time of 3150/51 at the same time that the Fontaine offensive
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 October 2021, 13:03:19
Yeah...The Marian Hegemony is one step above Space Pirates.  What part of Space Pirates says "Good Guise"?

That is what it seems by reading the Fluff that they publish in the last Rec Guide our troops, apart from being useless and backward, are defeated with astonishing ease
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: rebs on 17 October 2021, 13:15:30
To be fair, it's all a matter of the yin yang.  A little bit of good must exist in the bad.  Both morally and skill-wise.

A story for Shrapnel would be a good idea.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 October 2021, 13:29:01
To be fair, it's all a matter of the yin yang.  A little bit of good must exist in the bad.  Both morally and skill-wise.

A story for Shrapnel would be a good idea.

It is that reading that the Marians units are the most veteran and experienced in the last TRO or Era Report to what they published in Shattered Fortress does not close you what was so less than two years before, not to mention Ignatius' policy of a position hyper defensive to launch into 3 silly and crazy offensives, it does not close me, it even seems that I had not even read the previous Era Report

What about the stories in Sharpell if it could be a good idea as long as they publish them, everything published at the moment except the outline of the idea for Destiny is bringing down the Hegemony
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: GreekFire on 17 October 2021, 13:32:24
That is what it seems by reading the Fluff that they publish in the last Rec Guide our troops, apart from being useless and backward, are defeated with astonishing ease

The RecGuide entry simply references events that were covered in more detail in Shattered Fortress.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 October 2021, 13:36:13
The RecGuide entry simply references events that were covered in more detail in Shattered Fortress.

Humm then better forget to read something in which the MHAF troops do more than bump into each other, not to mention something produced in the MH
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Starfury on 18 October 2021, 04:40:07
While I like the Marians, especially since they combine old remnants of Renegade Legions Terran Overlord Government with Battletech styling, let's not forget they were founded by a guy who discovered some germanium and built an empire based on a partial caste system with slavery. The MH prefers to buy or salvage their mechs, and they're still behind the other medium powers in building up a full tech base to make full up normal Centurions and Emperors (given that he the MUL has given them primitive units.) We're fighting against Marik with aid from Liao and Canopus, and like many powers, we decided to attack them with our new found weapons as well. That's nothing new for the Hegemony. We're partially short sighted because we're dependent on a good ruling Caesar, just like the Roman Empire. Perhaps we'll finally get our act together and reform into more of a Republic after Marik kicks out of Tamarind Abbey or they leave the Ilyrian Province due to their focus on claiming back parts of the Wolf Empire.

Then we can finish updating our production lines to full up Star Leauge lostech/3060/Jihad era times and make Centurions, Commandos, Hunchbacks and Emperors, plus a new line medium or heavy.

Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 18 October 2021, 06:22:53
They're smaller than everybody else in the neighborhood, but have never shown any inclination that they know how to act like it. How did you *think* they were going to act, like Ghost Bears?

The Ghost Bears are a special kind of AAA-grade cheese that not even the Wolves can reach.

The Marians act out of plot contrivances with writing holes the size of a crater. Case in point: that Locust entry stating they use lances.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 26 October 2021, 11:48:02
Well from Rec Guide 19 we added the Spider 9M to our MUL list, I am not a fan of VSP but it is a nice mech.

Now we have to see what appears in the Red Guide 20 ..., the Hunchback ?, the Shadow Hawk IIC? The Goliath?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 27 October 2021, 02:10:01
Hopefully we produce the Goliath. A natural evolution from the Jihad -6H refit efforts
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 27 October 2021, 10:19:53
Hopefully we produce the Goliath. A natural evolution from the Jihad -6H refit efforts


Hopefully, although I don't think we receive anything from the Rec Guide, they have focused a lot on the children of the Cloning Cuba, and on the usual suspects, so we will surely have to wait for a footnote from future books.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 27 October 2021, 10:28:39

Hopefully, although I don't think we receive anything from the Rec Guide

 We get 45 mechs so far. (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=true&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&BookAuto=&Books=425&Books=426&Books=431&Books=432&Books=433&Books=434&Books=442&Books=438&Books=453&Books=454&Books=455&Books=456&Books=471&Books=472&Books=473&Books=474&Books=475&Books=476&Books=489&FactionAuto=&Factions=35&Factions=57) None are domestic production, but that's not relevant.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 27 October 2021, 10:37:26
We get 45 mechs so far. (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=true&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&BookAuto=&Books=425&Books=426&Books=431&Books=432&Books=433&Books=434&Books=442&Books=438&Books=453&Books=454&Books=455&Books=456&Books=471&Books=472&Books=473&Books=474&Books=475&Books=476&Books=489&FactionAuto=&Factions=35&Factions=57) None are domestic production, but that's not relevant.

That is your opinion Weirdo, it is always relevant for the advancement of the faction that produces its own mechs, receiving new mechs via MUL is nice, but the other is even more beautiful
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 27 October 2021, 10:44:33
It's a nice bonus, but for a nation that has relied on foreign trade for the vast majority of its mechs for its entire history, having that status quo prevent all other discussion about said nation is moving beyond irritation towards genuine anger. I'm keeping a lid on things, but even I have my limits.

I am truly begging you-PLEASE find something other than domestic production(or how they're not making the strategic decisions you would) to talk about. I don't enjoy hating my fellow fans.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 27 October 2021, 10:49:07
It's a nice bonus, but for a nation that has relied on foreign trade for the vast majority of its mechs for its entire history, having that status quo prevent all other discussion about said nation is moving beyond irritation towards genuine anger. I'm keeping a lid on things, but even I have my limits.

I am truly begging you-PLEASE find something other than domestic production(or how they're not making the strategic decisions you would) to talk about. I don't enjoy hating my fellow fans.

Okay Weirdo, no problem
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 28 October 2021, 01:48:53

Hopefully, although I don't think we receive anything from the Rec Guide, they have focused a lot on the children of the Cloning Cuba, and on the usual suspects, so we will surely have to wait for a footnote from future books.

That's sad. The wait for homegrown medium/heavy/assault Mech production continues. We must move forward into self-sufficiency. Heck even the Taurians got the Cadaver and Lamprey after the Jihad.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 30 October 2021, 06:24:25
Marian RL Longbow. Not bad for the 3060s
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 30 October 2021, 08:16:43
If it is a nice concept, I still like the one with the CA / 20 more, both designs are cute and useful for Legio Auxilia, the CA / 20 maybe for urban actions of the MHAF would be useful too, but in perspective the two designs They are 90 years behind in design with the modern battlefield
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Starfury on 30 October 2021, 09:58:47
The Marion RL Longbow would also work well with our Jagermech and Goliath refits.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 30 October 2021, 10:39:12
If or like the Mad II 4H or the Withworth 1H, they are refits of the Era of Sean / Julius O'Reilly and Jihad, it is more I believed that the first to appear were for 3062/63 and the Invasion of Illyria
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 30 October 2021, 22:47:20
Marian RL Longbow. Not bad for the 3060s

That thing is fabulous and I can't wait for it to hit the MUL so we can see if the Marians are exporting it, too.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 31 October 2021, 03:51:30
If it is a nice concept, I still like the one with the CA / 20 more, both designs are cute and useful for Legio Auxilia, the CA / 20 maybe for urban actions of the MHAF would be useful too, but in perspective the two designs They are 90 years behind in design with the modern battlefield

Yup. They would fit the desperate times of the Jihad, but not for the Dark Age. We require homegrown production of medium or heavier Mechs that are suited for the Legios.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 31 October 2021, 03:53:06
That thing is fabulous and I can't wait for it to hit the MUL so we can see if the Marians are exporting it, too.

It can still fire PPCs after emptying the RLs, definitely has endurance. It'll surely become IS and Periphery General, since that happened to many other -H model RL refits.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 31 October 2021, 06:39:32
That thing is fabulous and I can't wait for it to hit the MUL so we can see if the Marians are exporting it, too.
I doubt that it will be exported considering that the chassis need to be imported so that it can be refitted.  There would have to be a huge mark-up to make it profitable, which would take the incentive out of buying it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 31 October 2021, 19:47:39
I doubt that it will be exported considering that the chassis need to be imported so that it can be refitted.  There would have to be a huge mark-up to make it profitable, which would take the incentive out of buying it.

Perhaps it is not an export of zero product but if it were an ally of the Hegemony that asks for the conversion of an old model, it could well be carried out without too much problem, just as there are systems to which the Hegemony subsidizes personnel training, it could well provide this or another design as a way to deepen Relationships between states
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 01 November 2021, 06:28:17
Correct, Ignatius had been practicing soft power diplomacy with his neighbours, so Niops getting it as a subsidized purchase is highly plausible. They are rabidly anti-FWL, so relations with the Hegemony should be more or less normal.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 01 November 2021, 14:01:45
Correct, Ignatius had been practicing soft power diplomacy with his neighbours, so Niops getting it as a subsidized purchase is highly plausible. They are rabidly anti-FWL, so relations with the Hegemony should be more or less normal.

I don't think of Niops as "rabidly anti-FWL" as much as "tired of their neighbors' crap".

To review:


So, yeah, I don't get the impression that Niopian irritation is exclusively aimed at the Free Worlds League.  Hell, as of 3145, the only formal embassy on Niops, the Republic's embassy, was empty, and was still the site of protestors.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 01 November 2021, 14:56:36
I don't think of Niops as "rabidly anti-FWL" as much as "tired of their neighbors' crap".

To review:

  • Marian Hegemony came in and stole a bunch of their stuff, breaking other stuff.
  • Word of Blake, probably either Straight Outta Circinus or by way of the FWL, comes through lobbing nukes around, breaking the remaining stuff.
  • The "FWL", or at least a former part of it, decides they're going to briefly occupy Niops.  For Niops' safety, of course.  Though there's a lot we don't know here and I still wonder if it wasn't the Regulans looking for Blakists underneath everyone's beds.
  • The Republic, ie. the Word in less goofy clothes, shows up and says "Here, you're getting an embassy.  Deal."  This may or may not be what got the former FWL forces to leave, but we don't have enough information published to say for sure.
  • Niops, who was formerly essentially self-sufficient, is now reduced to buying the military hardware to keep their neighbors from invading or raiding again from those same neighbors who might raid or invade again.
  • The only thing keeping Niops afloat at the moment is germanium mining in their asteroids, done as a joint project with Interstellar Expeditions.

So, yeah, I don't get the impression that Niopian irritation is exclusively aimed at the Free Worlds League.  Hell, as of 3145, the only formal embassy on Niops, the Republic's embassy, was empty, and was still the site of protestors.

Also i think Niops is still dealing with the social issue resulting from their own civil war.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 01 November 2021, 16:30:46
Also i think Niops is still dealing with the social issue resulting from their own civil war.

Because when the devs finally pay attention to your faction, why hit it with one calamity, when you can hit it with three?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 01 November 2021, 17:14:00
Because when the devs finally pay attention to your faction, why hit it with one calamity, when you can hit it with three?

That feeling sounds familiar to me Giovanni
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 01 November 2021, 17:56:18
That feeling sounds familiar to me Giovanni

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7086/7274826826_ef5769852f.jpg)

I think it's safe to say their situations are not comparable, and leave it at that.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Starfury on 02 November 2021, 05:27:07
Niops simply got hit by the effect every faction approach of the Jihad. No different then anyone else.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 02 November 2021, 06:18:48
I don't think of Niops as "rabidly anti-FWL" as much as "tired of their neighbors' crap".

To review:

  • Marian Hegemony came in and stole a bunch of their stuff, breaking other stuff.
  • Word of Blake, probably either Straight Outta Circinus or by way of the FWL, comes through lobbing nukes around, breaking the remaining stuff.
  • The "FWL", or at least a former part of it, decides they're going to briefly occupy Niops.  For Niops' safety, of course.  Though there's a lot we don't know here and I still wonder if it wasn't the Regulans looking for Blakists underneath everyone's beds.
  • The Republic, ie. the Word in less goofy clothes, shows up and says "Here, you're getting an embassy.  Deal."  This may or may not be what got the former FWL forces to leave, but we don't have enough information published to say for sure.
  • Niops, who was formerly essentially self-sufficient, is now reduced to buying the military hardware to keep their neighbors from invading or raiding again from those same neighbors who might raid or invade again.
  • The only thing keeping Niops afloat at the moment is germanium mining in their asteroids, done as a joint project with Interstellar Expeditions.

So, yeah, I don't get the impression that Niopian irritation is exclusively aimed at the Free Worlds League.  Hell, as of 3145, the only formal embassy on Niops, the Republic's embassy, was empty, and was still the site of protestors.

True,though the military occupation and legitimate cooperation between WoB and Atreus for most of the Jihad would really taint the ex-FWL in Niopian eyes.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 02 November 2021, 06:25:40
Niops simply got hit by the effect every faction approach of the Jihad. No different then anyone else.

No doubt, which is why I don't tend to complain about it, other than one of the neighboring factions who are far better off tend to complain about their lot in life. ;)

True,though the military occupation and legitimate cooperation between WoB and Atreus for most of the Jihad would really taint the ex-FWL in Niopian eyes.

Undoubtedly.  I'm sure that tainted the Republic, too.  Also, the FWL states trying to draw Niops into their internal politics around reunification probably doesn't help.  I'm just saying that, just because they don't trust the FWL doesn't mean Niops trusts the Marians.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 02 November 2021, 06:27:10
Oh, definitely. Niops wouldn't trust the Marians completely due to all the raids. However, it would be "love-hate" compared to "paranoia of FWL".
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 02 November 2021, 14:03:19
I think that the slave raids would make Niops hate the Marian Hegemony.  I don't see any reason for love.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 02 November 2021, 14:13:39
Yeah, while not as big as the FWL, I'm pretty sure the Niopsian attitude towards the Hegemony is hate-hate.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 02 November 2021, 14:13:58
I think that the slave raids would make Niops hate the Marian Hegemony.  I don't see any reason for love.


Slave raids to Nyops? Where did that come from? Source?
Post 3077 there is no mention of attacks on Nyops by the Hegemony
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 02 November 2021, 14:46:01

Slave raids to Nyops? Where did that come from? Source?
Post 3077 there is no mention of attacks on Nyops by the Hegemony

I don't know about Nyops, but Technical Readout 3075, Jihad Hotspots 3072, Jihad Final Reckoning all mention Marian raids against the Niops Association. 

Unless your argument it that these were the kinder, gentler Marian raids, full of warm fuzziness that only targeted military hardware when the "alleged Marian Hegemony forces sack Niops V" (direct quote from Jihad Final Reckoning) in August 3077.  Or that the 3071 raid doesn't count because it was unsuccessful.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 02 November 2021, 15:44:40
I don't know about Nyops, but Technical Readout 3075, Jihad Hotspots 3072, Jihad Final Reckoning all mention Marian raids against the Niops Association. 

Unless your argument it that these were the kinder, gentler Marian raids, full of warm fuzziness that only targeted military hardware when the "alleged Marian Hegemony forces sack Niops V" (direct quote from Jihad Final Reckoning) in August 3077.  Or that the 3071 raid doesn't count because it was unsuccessful.

Raids up to 3077 are the answers to the failure of 3071 and to take advantage of the bag of rabid cats that Nyops had transformed due to its civil war to get equipment and strategic personnel, from slave raids nothing at all.
After that date I have not seen another incursion into Nyops by the MHAF, it is more since the Assumption of Ignatius Nyops must have entered into the same strategy of commerce and abarazos that was given to Lothario, some worlds of Circinus and several independent worlds of Marik + other non-independent worlds where military equipment was supported or sold
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 02 November 2021, 15:52:05
Raids up to 3077 are the answers to the failure of 3071 and to take advantage of the bag of rabid cats that Nyops had transformed due to its civil war to get equipment and strategic personnel, from slave raids nothing at all.

What?

Quote
After that date I have not seen another incursion into Nyops by the MHAF, it is more since the Assumption of Ignatius Nyops must have entered into the same strategy of commerce and abarazos that was given to Lothario, some worlds of Circinus and several independent worlds of Marik + other non-independent worlds where military equipment was supported or sold

1.  Where's Nyops?  Is that anywhere near the Marion Hedge Money?
2.  FWL hasn't made any incursions since the end of the Jihad either, yet everyone seems to think that Niops should be hating on them.
3.  The Marian Hegemony is actively making an effort to expand and gobble up nearby worlds in the 3150 time period, to the point of attacking FWL worlds.  Their neighbors, including Niops, would have to be run by half-wits to think that the Marian Hegemony is not a strategic threat.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 02 November 2021, 16:10:30
What?

1.  Where's Nyops?  Is that anywhere near the Marion Hedge Money?
2.  FWL hasn't made any incursions since the end of the Jihad either, yet everyone seems to think that Niops should be hating on them.
3.  The Marian Hegemony is actively making an effort to expand and gobble up nearby worlds in the 3150 time period, to the point of attacking FWL worlds.  Their neighbors, including Niops, would have to be run by half-wits to think that the Marian Hegemony is not a strategic threat.


This is according to Shattered Fortress onwards, until that moment Ignatius' policy was very different and the change of position from Era Report 3145 to what happens in Shattred Fortress a year later is too noticeable, doing exactly the opposite of what he had been doing. until then but that is another totally different debate and I will not do it here again
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 02 November 2021, 16:26:32
1.  Where's Nyops?  Is that anywhere near the Marion Hedge Money?

Cheap shot ther Giovanni. Adacas is not fluent in english (neither am i), and i think you can get the meaning even if he mistype an "y" instead of a "i".
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 02 November 2021, 16:36:28

This is according to Shattered Fortress onwards, until that moment Ignatius' policy was very different and the change of position from Era Report 3145 to what happens in Shattred Fortress a year later is too noticeable, doing exactly the opposite of what he had been doing. until then but that is another totally different debate and I will not do it here again

So, why are the Marians attacking FWL worlds in 3147?  And the Magistracy in 3150?  I mean, 3145 also lines up with "the Marian Hegemony Armed Forces incursions over the past five years" cited in the new ilClan sourcebook, too (pg. 115), which is also described as a "campaign of conquest" (also pg. 115) and an "invasion" (pg. 12).
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 02 November 2021, 16:48:59
So, why are the Marians attacking FWL worlds in 3147?  And the Magistracy in 3150?  I mean, 3145 also lines up with "the Marian Hegemony Armed Forces incursions over the past five years" cited in the new ilClan sourcebook, too (pg. 115), which is also described as a "campaign of conquest" (also pg. 115) and an "invasion" (pg. 12).

As I said, I will not make theories about why from one year to another Cesar and the MHAF threw overboard a work that they had been doing since 3110. but it seems to me that it was an "artistic freedom of writers", when until 3145 it was completely the opposite.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 03 November 2021, 00:24:09
So, why are the Marians attacking FWL worlds in 3147?  And the Magistracy in 3150?  I mean, 3145 also lines up with "the Marian Hegemony Armed Forces incursions over the past five years" cited in the new ilClan sourcebook, too (pg. 115), which is also described as a "campaign of conquest" (also pg. 115) and an "invasion" (pg. 12).

There has been a clear tendency to employ the Hegemony in anything post-FM:3145 as the go-to villains, regardless of whether they should know the odds of winning wars against much bigger powers.

There was an illogical total flip from a benevolent Marian foreign policy to a sudden frenzied campaign that seems to be for the neoFWL and Canopus to justify any conquest of Marian territory in their "defensive wars".
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 November 2021, 15:52:29
We add two Ostroc from the Rec Guide, little by little the list of the Marian MUL grows
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 November 2021, 16:01:32
Are there any known Marian unique pilots? All I can think of are Caesar Julius and his Sunder, and I think there's a Legatus known to pilot a Starslayer.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 17 November 2021, 16:02:42
You would think the Mortis would with their being equivalent of the Dirty Dozen.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 November 2021, 16:07:02
Are there any known Marian unique pilots? All I can think of are Caesar Julius and his Sunder, and I think there's a Legatus known to pilot a Starslayer.


Legatus Julie Gupton  IV Legio

Then there are some named pilots from a scene from the Illyrian War from Battlecorps


Then I think there is a General who pilots a Ravager and an ASF Pilot
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 November 2021, 17:34:44
You would think the Mortis would with their being equivalent of the Dirty Dozen.

...I have no idea what this sentence is trying to say. Mortis would what? Who is the Dozen here?

I actually just found that old BattleCorps scenario, and seven of my VI Legio mechs match ones in there. I think I'll use those names, and say that those are pilots transferred when VI was formed to keep the former mercs reliable. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 17 November 2021, 23:26:40
The penal battalion equivalent, Cohort Morti or whatever Roman-esque word that means death/dead.  Like the Dirty Dozen, they are serving death sentences in the MHAF armed forces.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 18 November 2021, 02:28:57
....yes?

I sorry if it seems I'm being obtuse, but I feel like there must have been some blatantly obvious segue I missed. What do the Morituri have to do with this? And again, we'd think the Mortis would what? Where's the second half of that sentence?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 18 November 2021, 06:29:14
He is using slang speech to say "There should have been a notable Marian pilot for the Mortis since its name evokes the Cohors Morituri, which is a penal unit equivalent to the Dirty Dozen"
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 18 November 2021, 09:14:53
OH, so the post was trying to say

You would think the Mortis would have such a pilot with their Cohors Morituri being the equivalent of the Dirty Dozen.

Okay, it makes sense once the missing words are added. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 18 November 2021, 10:03:35
He was speaking in casual slang English, so it might be harder to catch for non-native speakers.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 November 2021, 10:50:53
He was speaking in casual slang English, so it might be harder to catch for non-native speakers.

Lol, first time I have heard someone in Texas referred to as a non-native speaker.

But yeah, I guess the referents or whatever it is called in sentence diagramming was not coming across.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 18 November 2021, 18:24:02
This conversation puzzles me still further.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 18 November 2021, 18:28:32
This conversation puzzles me still further.


A misunderstanding about a way of expressing yourself, usually happens
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: MDFification on 09 December 2021, 12:59:52
I've stumbled upon something I don't quite understand. Illyria has something on the planet's surface referred to as a "shipbuilding center". What precisely is this facility manufacturing? Are the "ships" being build DropShips/Small Craft (I assume JumpShips can't be built planetside) or actual floats-on-water boats?

I suspect the latter, because the Marians having domestic DropShip manufacturing would be a big deal and I assume it would be talked about more frequently. But if it's watercraft, why is it relevant enough to be one of the few things we're told about the planet? I would have thought most worlds, except the most technologically regress or those without oceans, build their own boats.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 December 2021, 13:31:09
They could build ships to meet their own needs but also developed some blue-water combatants . . . Thumper, AC/2s or AC/5s, maybe some torpedoes, and VTOL or ASF options.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 09 December 2021, 14:13:54
I've stumbled upon something I don't quite understand. Illyria has something on the planet's surface referred to as a "shipbuilding center". What precisely is this facility manufacturing? Are the "ships" being build DropShips/Small Craft (I assume JumpShips can't be built planetside) or actual floats-on-water boats?

I suspect the latter, because the Marians having domestic DropShip manufacturing would be a big deal and I assume it would be talked about more frequently. But if it's watercraft, why is it relevant enough to be one of the few things we're told about the planet? I would have thought most worlds, except the most technologically regress or those without oceans, build their own boats.


The Hegemony has been known since approximately 3075 that it manufactures Shilone and varying equipment also has docks to Repair ships at least as far as the MUL is concerned says that we have access to that type of orbital constructions, then what we manufacture locally beyond the Shilone is a Great unknown, at this point the Hegemony should manufacture some type of DS minimally but the authors have well forgotten us, notice that we even have factories that make tanks and mechs since 3090 and we still have no idea what they do there, because the Locust and commandos are made in Alphard, much of the marian production whatever it is is "Terra Incognita"

Notice that thanks to the Rec Guide where the Longbows appeared we found out that we made a Field Refit since 3060 that was not listed anywhere and we found out chronologically 90 years after it was created.
We have at least four Companies that are dedicated to the construction, refit or repair of Mechs / Tanks / ASF / BA

Alphard Trading Corporation
Marian Arms Inc
Hadrian Industries
Techwizards Inc

Add to that a few subsidiaries of ATC and Marian Arms that make Advanced Shields and other things.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 10 December 2021, 05:57:19
I've stumbled upon something I don't quite understand. Illyria has something on the planet's surface referred to as a "shipbuilding center". What precisely is this facility manufacturing? Are the "ships" being build DropShips/Small Craft (I assume JumpShips can't be built planetside) or actual floats-on-water boats?

I suspect the latter, because the Marians having domestic DropShip manufacturing would be a big deal and I assume it would be talked about more frequently. But if it's watercraft, why is it relevant enough to be one of the few things we're told about the planet? I would have thought most worlds, except the most technologically regress or those without oceans, build their own boats.

They're actual, floats on water boats. Illyria was a low-tech world which was founded by refugees and had little actual industry and the like. Water transport was likely a key part of their planetary transport infrastructure as they probably lacked the resources and tech base to make aviation travel a viable industry.

There's no indication that the Marian Hegemony has any sort of Dropship production capability. Simply put, they lack the technology base and infrastructure to do such. While yes, they can repair ships, there is a world of difference between repairs and ground-up construction. (and, for that matter, we don't know what the limits of their repair capabilities are)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 10 December 2021, 10:16:09
I've stumbled upon something I don't quite understand. Illyria has something on the planet's surface referred to as a "shipbuilding center". What precisely is this facility manufacturing? Are the "ships" being build DropShips/Small Craft (I assume JumpShips can't be built planetside) or actual floats-on-water boats?

I suspect the latter, because the Marians having domestic DropShip manufacturing would be a big deal and I assume it would be talked about more frequently. But if it's watercraft, why is it relevant enough to be one of the few things we're told about the planet? I would have thought most worlds, except the most technologically regress or those without oceans, build their own boats.

As far as i know, the Illyrian shipyards were for blue-water vessels only. But there were rumors of a SLDF Repair and Refit Facility in the north part of the planet.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 December 2021, 10:20:14
They're actual, floats on water boats. Illyria was a low-tech world which was founded by refugees and had little actual industry and the like. Water transport was likely a key part of their planetary transport infrastructure as they probably lacked the resources and tech base to make aviation travel a viable industry.

There's no indication that the Marian Hegemony has any sort of Dropship production capability. Simply put, they lack the technology base and infrastructure to do such. While yes, they can repair ships, there is a world of difference between repairs and ground-up construction. (and, for that matter, we don't know what the limits of their repair capabilities are)

Even IF they had aviation, putting stuff on ships is still usually more economical.  Just as today, airplanes vs ships is really speed vs bulk & cost.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 10 December 2021, 10:53:15
As far as i know, the Illyrian shipyards were for blue-water vessels only. But there were rumors of a SLDF Repair and Refit Facility in the north part of the planet.

With the luck of the Hegemony for misfortunes, Tamarind finds him and puts him in operations
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 11 December 2021, 10:46:25
Let us hope not. The Marian partisans will end any such Tamarind attempts and continue overstretching their resources.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 20 December 2021, 20:33:55
Happy Saturnalia for all Marian Citizens
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 21 December 2021, 00:38:09
Happy Saturnalia, fellow New Romans!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 December 2021, 10:20:37
What is the best beginner/easy Space Roman paint scheme?  I have not thought about what I was going to do with the IS KS mechs- and really shuffling my spreadsheet with all the unpainted metal, AS Lance Pack, and new GoAC/KS mechs- and I might make a lance or two of Marians.  Particularly using one of the Centurions to be a CN9-H and CN9-Ar that the Marians would field.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 21 December 2021, 10:29:36
IV Legio is really easy. Paint everything in a dark or rust red. Paint some orange trim. Paint guns, joints, etc. Hit the while thing with a light brown or sepia wash. Paint the cockpit, base, done.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 December 2021, 11:05:57
Picture?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 21 December 2021, 12:22:49
What is the best beginner/easy Space Roman paint scheme?  I have not thought about what I was going to do with the IS KS mechs- and really shuffling my spreadsheet with all the unpainted metal, AS Lance Pack, and new GoAC/KS mechs- and I might make a lance or two of Marians.  Particularly using one of the Centurions to be a CN9-H and CN9-Ar that the Marians would field.

The most friendly scheme is as Weirdo tells you about the IV Legio, I myself am painting a unit of "Privatters" based on that Legio with a similar color scheme in my case Light Brown and Gold details, with the Cockpit in a light color based on blue, I still have to paint the weapon

[(https://i.postimg.cc/SJrTJW39/IMG-2290.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJrTJW39)]
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 21 December 2021, 16:51:54
Picture?

(https://i.imgur.com/b1PXJnk.jpeg)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Crimson Dynamo on 21 December 2021, 18:36:43
III Legio with dark blue and gold isn't too difficult either.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 22 December 2021, 09:12:55
Happy Saturnalia for all Marian Citizens

Merry Christmas you Pagan Heathens!  ;D
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 22 December 2021, 10:14:14
The most friendly scheme is as Weirdo tells you about the IV Legio, I myself am painting a unit of "Privatters" based on that Legio with a similar color scheme in my case Light Brown and Gold details, with the Cockpit in a light color based on blue, I still have to paint the weapon

[(https://i.postimg.cc/SJrTJW39/IMG-2290.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJrTJW39)]

Those are nice man.

Weirdo, that orange looks awfully red- I would have thought red if you had not said different.  Better than I thought when you first said it- I was picturing something like hunter safety orange or worse that color from Austin.

Thanks for the pics guys.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 23 December 2021, 00:09:38
Merry Christmas you Pagan Heathens!  ;D

Hypothetically, the Space Romans could integrate Saturnalia as a secular celebration with Christmas :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 23 December 2021, 09:37:37
Hypothetically, the Space Romans could integrate Saturnalia as a secular celebration with Christmas :)

Let's say that Saturnalia in the Marian Hegemony is a great holiday mixing the Roman Worship with the Christian Worship, the same festive dates with different meanings.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 24 December 2021, 03:46:37
Agreed. They can co-exist peacefully as Rome was a tolerant empire.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 24 December 2021, 09:16:51
Except where monotheistic religions were concerned.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 24 December 2021, 09:57:01
Except where monotheistic religions were concerned.

In the Hegemony there is a great assortment of religions and all coexist without any problem according to everything written
In Rome, the persecution of Christians in one case (Neron) was the result of the political convenience of an internal enemy for an Insane, in the Case of Caligula and a couple more were for tax issues and again political convenience, when each time it began to have more Christian Patricians they had to look for another scapegoat
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 24 December 2021, 17:34:26
The Romans went after anyone who didn't worship Caesar.  They massacred a good chunk of the Hebrew population and went out of their way to destroy the Druids.  Granted, both groups were in full rebellion against Rome. 
The Marians have acted wisely in this respect.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 24 December 2021, 17:52:53
The Romans went after anyone who didn't worship Caesar.  They massacred a good chunk of the Hebrew population and went out of their way to destroy the Druids.  Granted, both groups were in full rebellion against Rome. 
The Marians have acted wisely in this respect.

The thing of Rome with the Hebrews is not so if we talk about the Rebellion of the Zealots (Masada), They were delivered by the members of the Zanedrim (The Priests of the Temple)
If we talk about the Rebellion that Tito Vespaciano represses, it is another thing, they rose up, they killed garrisons and the Governor of Judea, Rome did not tolerate Rebellions and more reached that point
Titus decided to punish them by destroying the Temple of Jerusalem, generating the Second Diaspora of the Hebrew People.
In the case of the Druids, their Conclaves advised the Celtic Rulers of the Different Territories that they inhabited, and after the several times that Gauls and Bretons were defeated, the Druids again agitated the various Clans and Tribes to rebel, the Extermination of the Druidic conclaves led to the pacification of Gaul and after Britain, it was not religious persecution but totally political, Rome exterminated an insurgent agent who did not allow to pacify his conquests neither more nor less, then in fact that allowed the peoples to continue praying to whoever seems best
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 25 December 2021, 00:36:20
Yeah, Rome didn't care about religions as long as they paid their tributes, taxes and functioned productively for the Empire.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 25 December 2021, 08:48:11
Rome's problem was that they expected everyone in the empire to worship the emperor.  For monotheists, this was picking a fight.  The Romans didn't shed the first blood, but they should've realized the outcome would be bloodshed.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 25 December 2021, 09:59:59
Rome's problem was that they expected everyone in the empire to worship the emperor.  For monotheists, this was picking a fight.  The Romans didn't shed the first blood, but they should've realized the outcome would be bloodshed.
The Firmness in the Application of the Roman Law varied greatly according to the Era and the Emperor that was in Rome.
For example and making comparisons, The Campaign of Titus that ended with the Taking of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple was "Subtle" in the form of application to our eyes, it may seem ruthless, it caused more than 100K of Dead of the Local Population and exile of much of the rest of the population, but before the same event (that is, a Rebellion against the Emperor and Rome)
If we compare it with the Suffocation of the Great Dacian Revolt in which the Roman Law was applied with such ferocity that Dacia was repopulated with successive waves of Roman Settlers of Different origins led to the Change of Name of the province to Romania (present-day Romania) that As a current example of this campaign, it remains that Romanian is a language of the Latin Root, unlike all the rest of the languages ​​of the Region.
The Romanian ethnic roots diversified later but the Roman imprint remained there indelible
And there was no religious persecution, after all, Rome always cared more about politics, power and the Military Force.

The Marian Hegemony with all its errors and repression of rebellions do not reach 1/5 of the Ferocity of Rome in the application of its laws, if the Hegemony had been it, Lothario would not open to give an example, if it had been applied to them for example the Dacian Solution.

Or even worse the Carthage Solution ...
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 25 December 2021, 23:45:04
If the Hegemony was really following the Roman playbook, Lothario would only exist as a geographical term, and the Canopians would be crushed in a dozen generations later.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 26 December 2021, 07:23:25
Playbooks don't count when you don't have the resources to implement them.  The Marians never had the strength to take down the Canopians, not even with Blakist help.  They've had more success with the FWL.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 27 December 2021, 03:39:52
Canopus has author fiat. That is always the most important factor.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 27 December 2021, 10:20:40
Canopus has author fiat. That is always the most important factor.

They have a heir problem . . . it would be interesting to see if a Caeser will put their finger in that pie.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 27 December 2021, 10:30:26
Canopus has author fiat. That is always the most important factor.
The Battletech universe is nothing but author fiat. 
The Canopians were written as a faction to fill in a missing "personality" niche: female dominated and fun-loving.  They are meant to appeal to a different fan personality type.
The Marians were written into existence to serve a different kind of role: (see below)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 27 December 2021, 10:34:02
They have a heir problem . . . it would be interesting to see if a Caeser will put their finger in that pie.
The Caesar needs longer arms.  And don't forget that the Centrellas have a back-up branch.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 27 December 2021, 10:47:09
Oh, not denying they have options- what I am saying is that is the problem.  The direct and most obvious heir is going to be the Capellan heir- and maybe Chancellor soon if things go well.  Considering the lack of any established planning in any realm for the succession, it would be abnormal for her to have established a heir out of the cousins/nieces who might have a claim.  Then you have her 'marriage' to Ari Humpries that will be without issue unless they borrow some Clan tech (imagine the Sea Fox bargaining for THAT arrangement) to produce a heir.

The Caeser's arms are long enough . . . a few agents with money/material and maybe some merc cut outs to support a Marian favoring candidate for the throne.  Even just stirring the pot enough to cause instability is a plus for the Marians.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 27 December 2021, 11:23:23
Would he really want to pick a fight with the Maskirova?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 27 December 2021, 11:30:47
Why not?  Daoshen is focused on the Republic, then the FedSuns, probably the Kuritans, and then maybe his Canopian cousins internal outlook.  The resources that get spent in the MoC.

Not talking about a full military support of a coup . . . but funding a potential heir that is favorable to the Marians?  Giving them money to pay bribes, spend on PR campaigns, campaign contributions to lesser officials for their elections, do investigations to turn up blackmail or dirt for reports, heck to buy reporters?  Or bankrolling a small company of mercs for security, mercs that may have some unsavory specializations.

Comes down to risk vs reward . . . which also means the Marians are unlikely to face a Capellan invasion b/c the Chancellor is unhappy.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 27 December 2021, 12:19:59
Nah Colt, thats too advanced for the designated "evil mook" faction. The "evil mooks" cant do something like that, they only can trip on their own feet while using their "mooktech" mechs made of explodium.  ;D
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 27 December 2021, 13:47:35
Look Colt, the Canopians are the beloved Faction of some author who rains him favorable fluff, investments, techs and others, we are of course the Bad Faction without a designated brain, which contradicts his fluff from one book to another even though in years of playing he did not More than 2 years will pass between one and the other and I think even less.
As for Techs, why do we want investment or local production? You have to have very old, vintage and retrotech mech because someone liked them in their time and place, currently building an army with those teams is suicidal
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 27 December 2021, 14:22:27
You are aware that by this point, everybody who has event a passing interest in the Hegemony knows your view on this? At this point, there is literally zero reason to keep stating it, because we already know all about it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 27 December 2021, 14:34:27
You are aware that by this point, everybody who has event a passing interest in the Hegemony knows your view on this? At this point, there is literally zero reason to keep stating it, because we already know all about it.

Well, his answer is related to what jimdigris states about "author fiat" in general, and what he thinks the faction roles of the Moc and the MH are. And i can assure you, while i am not a MH fan, Adaca´s is not alone in that opinion.

But well, at the end of the day, we are just fans, with little to none chance of influence what TPTB decide to do (or not do) with the factions.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 27 December 2021, 21:15:28
The Hegemony is ruled by a man who is described as being prone to impulsive decisions and rash judgements, as well as being capriciously cruel (Era Report 3145, pg 113). He's merely continuing the nation's tradition of being overly aggressive towards their neighbours, including raiding for technology, supplies, parts, luxury goods and, most notably slaves.

The point where the Marian Hegemeony is at now is entirely the Marians' fault and a logical outcome of the mindset that has dominated the nation since its inception as a pirate state.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 27 December 2021, 21:29:31
The Hegemony is ruled by a man who is described as being prone to impulsive decisions and rash judgements, as well as being capriciously cruel (Era Report 3145, pg 113). He's merely continuing the nation's tradition of being overly aggressive towards their neighbours, including raiding for technology, supplies, parts, luxury goods and, most notably slaves.

The point where the Marian Hegemeony is at now is entirely the Marians' fault and a logical outcome of the mindset that has dominated the nation since its inception as a pirate state.

Yet it is also stated the Marians are trying soft-power diplomacy until it magically got turned into the "evil mook" faction after FM3145.

And yeah, I agree with what Adacas and Baldur Mekorig has said.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 27 December 2021, 21:58:43
If it is because of what this or that state or principality did as a state policy, the 7th of Tamarind also went to loot Pompeii in 3145, it is in the fluff of that unit, and I do not think it was an activity of that single unit of the Marik side of the border
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 27 December 2021, 22:10:21
Yet it is also stated the Marians are trying soft-power diplomacy until it magically got turned into the "evil mook" faction after FM3145.

And again, impulsive and rash leader who ultimately wields supreme power.

He may have started with soft power but then decided that it wasn't working or didn't like the results or whatever else, and go for a more direct and blunt approach. This is what happens when you have a ruler who makes snap decisions and then has nobody who can tell him "no".

Let's also not forget that the Marians were also apparently being supplied by the Capellans, who in turn have plenty of motivation for starting a war between the FWL and MH.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Starfury on 28 December 2021, 00:22:13
Well the Marians have to do something with all of those Highlanders and Emperors they bought from StarCorps. A jump capable assault mech is a terrible thing to waste.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 28 December 2021, 00:42:18
And again, impulsive and rash leader who ultimately wields supreme power.

He may have started with soft power but then decided that it wasn't working or didn't like the results or whatever else, and go for a more direct and blunt approach. This is what happens when you have a ruler who makes snap decisions and then has nobody who can tell him "no".

Let's also not forget that the Marians were also apparently being supplied by the Capellans, who in turn have plenty of motivation for starting a war between the FWL and MH.

Lot of speculation here of a poorly-elaborated side of Dark Age history.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 28 December 2021, 04:25:28
What part of that is speculation?

We know that Ignatius O'Reily is impulsive, rash and given to cruelty. We know that the Marian Hegemony is an absolute monarchy, with absolute power vested in the Caesar, who can enforce his will by decree. We know that the Marians have maintained an aggressive posture and continued to raid their neighbours for everything from luxury goods to supplies to slaves. We know that they have been given supplies and ammunition by the Capellans.

The Marians' invasion of the Free Worlds League follows through from all these elements.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Metallgewitter on 28 December 2021, 09:08:10
What part of that is speculation?

We know that Ignatius O'Reily is impulsive, rash and given to cruelty. We know that the Marian Hegemony is an absolute monarchy, with absolute power vested in the Caesar, who can enforce his will by decree. We know that the Marians have maintained an aggressive posture and continued to raid their neighbours for everything from luxury goods to supplies to slaves. We know that they have been given supplies and ammunition by the Capellans.

The Marians' invasion of the Free Worlds League follows through from all these elements.

On the other hand it is somehow the oposite of what was written about the Marians in the era report and field manual for 3145. The Marians changed their stance (under Ignatius btw) from conquering to more subtle influencing of their neighbours. Yes they still raided other realms (an example was the raid oin Keystone which got them nearly a company of Bulwarck tanks plus sufficient spare parts) but that was the gist of it. The Hegemony itself was described as flourishing (as best as they could).

Then again as you said Ingatius was described as somewhat irrational. So maybe he got in a fight with his wife (who hails from the Rim Commonality of all things) and then decided the next day "Ok the Freeworlds will pay for this!"
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 28 December 2021, 16:37:19
On the other hand it is somehow the oposite of what was written about the Marians in the era report and field manual for 3145. The Marians changed their stance (under Ignatius btw) from conquering to more subtle influencing of their neighbours. Yes they still raided other realms (an example was the raid oin Keystone which got them nearly a company of Bulwarck tanks plus sufficient spare parts) but that was the gist of it. The Hegemony itself was described as flourishing (as best as they could).

Then again as you said Ingatius was described as somewhat irrational. So maybe he got in a fight with his wife (who hails from the Rim Commonality of all things) and then decided the next day "Ok the Freeworlds will pay for this!"

I think you are wrong about factory world, the assault was on Kendall not on Keystone but in that you are right.
The "instability" of Ignatius I do not think that he would attack on three different fronts by a tantrum with the woman (if it were so, Corbeanca would attack the world that the Father-in-law rules and none of that happened), and if it were for unstable rulers Capella should have been destroyed at least 4 times

Added the Rifleman IIC Standard to the Marian MUL, hoping if we receive any more mechs
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 28 December 2021, 16:56:10
I don't think it was a tantrum.  Ignatius O'Reily simply got too ambitious for his own good and is paying the price.  With the attack against the Canopians, the Capellan spigot has been shut off. 
The only question now is what the Canopians/Capellans will do beyond the existing seizures of worlds.  Potentially, the intelligence service of either realm could plant evidence that indicates that the generals are planning to kill Ignatius and trick the generals into thinking that Ignatius is planning to kill them.
I could see the Ebon Magistrate and Maskirovka getting a lot of entertainment from that. :popcorn:
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 28 December 2021, 17:04:11
I don't think it was a tantrum.  Ignatius O'Reily simply got too ambitious for his own good and is paying the price.

It is precisely the issue Ignatius did not have any expansionist spirit of any kind that was not political, read the Era Report and Field Manual 3145 for more data, in Shattered Fortress they make him change his policy 180 degrees and go in another direction that is the unreal and inexplicable
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 28 December 2021, 17:08:52
The only question now is what the Canopians/Capellans will do beyond the existing seizures of worlds.  Potentially, the intelligence service of either realm could plant evidence that indicates that the generals are planning to kill Ignatius and trick the generals into thinking that Ignatius is planning to kill them.
I could see the Ebon Magistrate and Maskirovka getting a lot of entertainment from that. :popcorn:

The Can/Caps are going to have assigned their third or fourth rate teams/prioirities to such a assignment; bigger fish to fry.

I think a smarter move would be for the Caeser to send a peace envoy to Nikol which will cause internal problems for the Neo-League.  This should only be done after they retake the BA factory world.  Realize the hand is burnt and needs to be withdrawn.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 28 December 2021, 18:32:16
I think a smarter move would be for the Caeser to send a peace envoy to Nikol which will cause internal problems for the Neo-League.  This should only be done after they retake the BA factory world.  Realize the hand is burnt and needs to be withdrawn.
Why would a peace envoy cause internal problems?  Whose hand is burnt?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 28 December 2021, 19:30:35
It's hardly an inexplicable move when you put it in context of the Marians' history, political structure and a few other elements.

The Hegemony has, for the last century and a bit, been an aggressive, expansionist, imperialist state. Its growth has come from conquering other states around it; the Lothian League, the Illyrian Planetate, the two failed invasions of the Circrinus Federation and the conquest of former FWL planets after the Jihad were all initiated by the Marians. And while yes, under Ignatius the Hegemony had been trying to engage in a more "soft power" route, it was still engaged in acts of naked aggression against its neighbours. Raiding worlds for parts, supplies, luxury goods and especially slaves are not peaceful acts, nor are they in any way benign. Rather, they are simply a continuation of prior Marian policy.

Nations do not exist in a vacuum. Likewise, they do not remain constant. Just because the Marians did not seek to expand through conquest at one point does not mean they will remain like that forever. There could be a myriad of reasons for this change in policy. Naked opportunism is one of the most obvious ones that comes to mind. The Hegemony attacked the FWL during operation TRIUMVIR, when it was already under attack by three different powers at once. It's a logical conclusion to say that the Marians saw an opportunity to expand at the expense of an enemy that was distracted and threatened and, as such, had little capacity to retaliate.

Then there is the matter of leadership to consider. Yes, Ignatius O'Reily is the architect of the "less aggressive" approach. However, that again does not mean that he can't change his mind and adopt a different stance if it suits him. And as mentioned, he is an impulsive, rash and cruel man. Furthermore, there are no checks or balances on his power whatsoever; he rules by decree, and his word is law. If he decides that he wants to change policy and invade the Free Worlds League, then that is what is going to happen. Nobody can oppose him.

Additionally, we know that the Capellans are supplying the Marians with weapons, ammunition and other supplies to aid their invasion of the League. We don't yet know why, but there several logical conclusions that can be reached. Having the League distracted, divided and facing wars on several fronts would suit the Capellans' purposes well.

Finally, it needs to be said that there may be other factors that we, as the readers, are not yet aware of. There could be story elements that are yet to be revealed, motivations we are yet to see and so on. We haven't had any "screen time" for Ignatius or the Marian leadership, so we don't really know what's going on in their heads. Just because something isn't spelled out on the page at the time, doesn't mean it's not there at all.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 28 December 2021, 20:47:06
Why would a peace envoy cause internal problems?  Whose hand is burnt?

Caeser's reach has exceeded his ability to hold at this point.  Take back the IMO critical BA factory, and once that is returned to the fold reach a peace settlement with Nikol.  Peace w/ Nikol could cause the typical internal conflict in the FWL- do you think Fontaine would buy a near status quo ante bellum?  Also managing to send a peace envoy directly to Atreus, or at least not through Tamarind controlled territory, has a chance of blindsiding Fontaine while denying him a political win by having control over the envoy's movements.  Half the goal of a peace mission would be to deny any advantages to Fontaine while conceding to Nikol.

  Even a token world or two given to the League- and not Tamarind- would be upsetting . . . keep the border weak by keeping Tamarind and Atreus at odds over the policy.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 28 December 2021, 23:34:34
What part of that is speculation?

Here's the answer.

And again, impulsive and rash leader who ultimately wields supreme power.

He may have started with soft power but then decided that it wasn't working or didn't like the results or whatever else, and go for a more direct and blunt approach. This is what happens when you have a ruler who makes snap decisions and then has nobody who can tell him "no".

Let's also not forget that the Marians were also apparently being supplied by the Capellans, who in turn have plenty of motivation for starting a war between the FWL and MH.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 29 December 2021, 00:31:47
None of that is speculation.

We know that Ignatius is an impulsive and rash person, given to callous cruelty. We know that the Marian Hegemony is an absolute monarchy, with absolute power vested in the Caesar, who can enforce his will by decree. We know that the Marian Hegemony has a past history of aggression towards its neighbours that it has continued, even if at a reduced intensity. We know that the MHAF are actively using Capellan-made weapons and ammunition as part of a Capellan plan to keep the FWL distracted.

The Marians invading the Free Worlds League is a logical outcome of a number of factors. Their leadership, their governmental structure, their continued aggression and their culture all support such actions.

The only speculation is what role (if any) the Capellans may have played in such events; did they somehow coerce the Marians into taking action or simply took advantage of an existing situation.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 29 December 2021, 01:12:06
Not sure I read ER/FM3145 as him being rash & impulsive.

Not sure what using Cappie arms means . . . the Regulans use Lyran weapons and sold weapons to the Cappies.  The MSC used a FedSuns invention in the RAC & Prec AC ammo.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 29 December 2021, 01:20:49
Not sure I read ER/FM3145 as him being rash & impulsive.

Not sure what using Cappie arms means . . . the Regulans use Lyran weapons and sold weapons to the Cappies.  The MSC used a FedSuns invention in the RAC & Prec AC ammo.

Ignatius O'Reily is described as being prone to impulsive decisions and rash judgements, as well as being capriciously cruel (Era Report 3145, pg 113).

The Marian forces that attacked the FWL were found to be using Capellan supplied weapons and ammunition (Hunting Season). This, combined with some intel from inside the Confederation was enough evidence to point to collusion between the Capellan Confederation and the Marian Hegemony (Shattered Fortress, pg 37). Furthermore, the evidence showed that the Capellans were deliberately arming the Marians as a way to keep the FWL distracted.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 29 December 2021, 03:06:41
Sure, but that is not really abnormal in BT.  The Lyrans sold mechs to Lester as a means to keep the League from coalescing and because he could buy.  The Sandovals armed the partisans in the Draconis Reach.  The Blakists armed the Hegemony to destabilize Canopus back around 3060 to make their offers of support more appealing to Emma Centrella.  George Hasek supported the Jiang Fei (or whatever) movement along with Free Capella.  Sun-Tzu had his ZdG terrorists in the Sarna/Chaos March.

Long tradition in BT of supporting someone who wants to take swings at your potential adversary.  Daoshen trying to keep Jessika & Nikol busy so he does not have to mess with the Andurien region while focusing on Terra is not abnormal.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 29 December 2021, 03:27:29
I'm not saying that it's unusual at all. My point is that it's one of the many logical explanations for the Marians' behaviour from 3145 to 3150, and that it's supported by substantive evidence from the source material.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 29 December 2021, 08:12:08
Caeser's reach has exceeded his ability to hold at this point.  Take back the IMO critical BA factory, and once that is returned to the fold reach a peace settlement with Nikol.  Peace w/ Nikol could cause the typical internal conflict in the FWL- do you think Fontaine would buy a near status quo ante bellum?  Also managing to send a peace envoy directly to Atreus, or at least not through Tamarind controlled territory, has a chance of blindsiding Fontaine while denying him a political win by having control over the envoy's movements.  Half the goal of a peace mission would be to deny any advantages to Fontaine while conceding to Nikol.

  Even a token world or two given to the League- and not Tamarind- would be upsetting . . . keep the border weak by keeping Tamarind and Atreus at odds over the policy.
Why would Nikol have any dealings with a peace envoy?  The conflict is between the Marians and Fontaine.  Parliment made that clear.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 29 December 2021, 08:28:06
Why would Nikol have any dealings with a peace envoy?  The conflict is between the Marians and Fontaine.  Parliment made that clear.

First, because she have Clan Wolf basically at he doorsteep, and need to prepare with every troop she can muster, so she need the units Fontaine is using for his personal war. Second, because she have Canopus at her rimward border, getting all the little independant ex-FWL planets that still are there. Third, related to the second, because she have Andurien doing the same, and coordinating with the Canopians. And lastly, because she have to worry about the chance of her "friend" using her as a fool. Daddy Liao can be focused on Terra, but that does not means the Crapellans are not still doing their usual shenanigans.

A deal with the Marians, even if it is a short term armistice to be broken in the future, its a quiet front for the time beign.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 29 December 2021, 08:39:21
Also, about Ignatius, its description on ER:3145 is....weird. Maybe its because english it is not my main language. When you took the throne and one of the first thing is to renounce all claims to the planet that took your father and grand father lives, i would not call it "impulsive and/or rash". Its freaking common sense.

Of course Ignatius is impatient and have a bipolar disorder, and can have "very bad days", but he is also  a veteran politician, as you dont survive too much time in the MH by beign a moron.

It gets worse when you check FM:3145, Shattered Fortress and some other books to see the actual invasion, and see that outside the Gibraltar area, the whole operation had little to none sense.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 29 December 2021, 16:28:56
One reason why he may have invaded League Worlds was because of domestic pressure.  The national mindset is "We will be glorious through conquest!"  It was true in real-life with the Romans.  There wasn't any real value in invading Britain, but Claudius did it because that is what Romans regarded as leadership.  They also needed more slaves.

First, because she have Clan Wolf basically at he doorsteep, and need to prepare with every troop she can muster, so she need the units Fontaine is using for his personal war. Second, because she have Canopus at her rimward border, getting all the little independant ex-FWL planets that still are there. Third, related to the second, because she have Andurien doing the same, and coordinating with the Canopians. And lastly, because she have to worry about the chance of her "friend" using her as a fool. Daddy Liao can be focused on Terra, but that does not means the Crapellans are not still doing their usual shenanigans.

A deal with the Marians, even if it is a short term armistice to be broken in the future, its a quiet front for the time beign.
Parliament would have to approve any treaty, and they're too deadlocked to get that done.  The only way Fontaine will give up his troops to Nikol is if the Marians withdraw from Fontaine's worlds, and not ask for their own back.
A more likely scenario is that Fontaine leaves the FWL and allies himself with Andurien and Canopus.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 29 December 2021, 21:44:08
One reason why he may have invaded League Worlds was because of domestic pressure.  The national mindset is "We will be glorious through conquest!"  It was true in real-life with the Romans.  There wasn't any real value in invading Britain, but Claudius did it because that is what Romans regarded as leadership.  They also needed more slaves.

Thats one mistake you are doing. While originally the Marians were the whole "Romans in SPACE" trope, they are not Rome. The Hegemony was having a pacefull and socially and economically good period with Ignatius, especially after he renounced to Lothario. of course, i am not saying that the MH become the OWA, they are still a smll periphery state, violence and raids are part of the lifestyle, but i dont see the objective of conquering Astrokatzy for example while you are attacking Gibraltar, when they were doing a great job of soft power proyection on all the independant around them.

Parliament would have to approve any treaty, and they're too deadlocked to get that done.  The only way Fontaine will give up his troops to Nikol is if the Marians withdraw from Fontaine's worlds, and not ask for their own back.

Nikol have a good grip of the Parliament by the end of the last novel. Heck, even in Shattered Fortress the Parliament was censuring Fontaine for what they considered a personal war adventurism.

A more likely scenario is that Fontaine leaves the FWL and allies himself with Andurien and Canopus.


Dude, you should work on comedy. You got a hearty chuckle from me with that line. Fontaine is so broke and bound by the chains the Parliament set on him by 3150 that Nikol´s brother had to pay (with her approval) mercs to liberate Atzenbrugg. He also have the situation of a very HOT Lyran border and the Wolves (currently busy with Terra, for now...). The moment Fontaine tries to do a "Catherine Humphreys" he is done for good. Tamarind have little local military industry to support their own forces (some tanks and probably some mechs lines that were mentioned in some products, like the Valiant IIRC), and the moment he becomes an enemy of the new FWL, he would have to fight against the Lyrans attacking across the border, the FWL Federal troops, and even part of their own people that originally bourght the whole "lets do the FWL again" plus the Marians.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 30 December 2021, 00:21:43
None of that is speculation.

The Marians invading the Free Worlds League is a logical outcome of a number of factors. Their leadership, their governmental structure, their continued aggression and their culture all support such actions.

The only speculation is what role (if any) the Capellans may have played in such events; did they somehow coerce the Marians into taking action or simply took advantage of an existing situation.

A logical outcome is by itself a form of speculation unless it's stated in a sourcebook or novel that Ignatius ordered the invasion out of those factors and struck an alliance with the Cappies.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 30 December 2021, 02:06:45
At this point you're simply splitting hairs rather than actually offering any counterargument.

Shattered Fortress, p 37 explicitly spells this out. The Capellan Confederation is arming and equipping the Marians with the aim of keeping the Free Worlds League focused on them. This in turn means the FWL can't focus on Andurien or the Capellans, which gives the CCAF the freedom to invade the Republic.

There's nothing illogical about this. There's nothing that goes against any previously established material about the Marian Hegemony or its leadership.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 30 December 2021, 06:57:16
At this point you're simply splitting hairs rather than actually offering any counterargument.

Shattered Fortress, p 37 explicitly spells this out. The Capellan Confederation is arming and equipping the Marians with the aim of keeping the Free Worlds League focused on them. This in turn means the FWL can't focus on Andurien or the Capellans, which gives the CCAF the freedom to invade the Republic.

There's nothing illogical about this. There's nothing that goes against any previously established material about the Marian Hegemony or its leadership.

I could say the same about your arguments Deadborder. One book 8FM:3145) shows the Marians has having a pacefull era with a bit of bipolar but not-a-warmonger Caesar, and then you have Shattered Fortress making the Marians attacking everywhere with no rhyme or reason. Also, take the "intelligence report" there with a grain of salt. If you want to look for stronger arguments for your case, you could try Hunting Season (page 130 IIRC), were Nikol as her staff got the report the a Tamarind Regulars unit captured some Marians supplies that were Canopian and Capellan in origin, and even doing an analisis on the data they got, Nikol and her staff reach to the conclusion that they need more proof to assure the chance of the MoC-CapCom alliance supplying the Marians. BTW, read that chapter, it mades a good show on what Nikol and her people consider the real dangers to the FWL at that moment.

As a final point, what would be ilogical is the MoC and Capcom supplying the MH, even if it is to "distract" the FWL. The Marian are enemies of the MoC for decades at this point, and they get nothing of helping the MoC/CC alliance. Heck, you even have confrontation between the MH/MoC at the time, and the MoC is currently occupying 2 MH planets. But well, authors and Devs have turned way weirder plot turns in the past, so i would not surprised at all if something similar happens.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 30 December 2021, 08:45:12
 
The Hegemony was having a pacefull and socially and economically good period with Ignatius
The only comedy that I see here is the notion that the Hegemony is peaceful.  It never has been, except when its military misadventures left it too weak to launch attacks.  It has always raided its neighbors for slaves because of its backward economy.
You can dream up as many scenarios to put the Marians on top as you like, but no other major power is likely to go along with them.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 30 December 2021, 09:24:25
At this point you're simply splitting hairs rather than actually offering any counterargument.

Shattered Fortress, p 37 explicitly spells this out. The Capellan Confederation is arming and equipping the Marians with the aim of keeping the Free Worlds League focused on them. This in turn means the FWL can't focus on Andurien or the Capellans, which gives the CCAF the freedom to invade the Republic.

There's nothing illogical about this. There's nothing that goes against any previously established material about the Marian Hegemony or its leadership.

I'm simply pointing out that you're speculating about something without that thing actually being fact in canon. In other words, jumping to conclusions.

As Baldur Mekorig pointed out, supplying the Marians would put the Cappies at odds with the Canopians and that's a whole can of worms. Also, as with the Jihad books, such "intelligence reports" always have a chance of being "canon rumor" disinformation.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 30 December 2021, 09:31:41
The only comedy that I see here is the notion that the Hegemony is peaceful.  It never has been, except when its military misadventures left it too weak to launch attacks.  It has always raided its neighbors for slaves because of its backward economy.
You can dream up as many scenarios to put the Marians on top as you like, but no other major power is likely to go along with them.

The Marians don't always raid for slaves because it would take away needed troops for any ongoing campaigns. Do you see slave raids happening when the Legions fought Circinus in 3066?

The comedy here is the vitriol for Hegemony slave raids and practices when you have essentially the same thing in Cappie servitors and Drac unproductives and human trafficking from prehistoric Earth till 3150 BT. The Dracs even put Davion workers' families at gunpoint to force them to make Mechs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 30 December 2021, 09:39:07
The only comedy that I see here is the notion that the Hegemony is peaceful.  It never has been, except when its military misadventures left it too weak to launch attacks.  It has always raided its neighbors for slaves because of its backward economy.
You can dream up as many scenarios to put the Marians on top as you like, but no other major power is likely to go along with them.

And why they would like to "go along" with any "major power". The Marian are their own thing, not an accesory of another power (or clan). Also, if you actually read what i wrote, i am saying that the Hegemony under Ignatius was having a rather paceful period for a peripheric state. War is an intrinsic part of the setting, after all is Battletech, not Peacetech.

But lets humor your curiosity. Since its founding (2920), and not counting raids, as everyone and their cousin was raiding, specially in the Mad-Max-esque Periphery, the first Marian "aggresive" action is Sean´s conquest of the  Lothian League in...3054. 124 year for the first real military aggression against another political entity. And here i would agree that Sean was the kind of Caesar that would conquer another faction for the glory and to keep the populace happy. He was a corrupt degenerate bastard after all. Then you have Julius a few years later getting Illyria in a power play to get the MHAF under his wing so he can depose his father. And after that you have the war against Circinus, that was a conflict that was brewing for a LONG time form both sides (fueled by WoB by the last part), and after that, outside some grabbing of the ocasional former FWL planet (that everyone was doing btw), most of the MHAF actions were the ocasional raid and internal policing. Heck, even FM:3145 remarks that Ignatius was using "soft power" diplomacy to extend the MH influence and goverment style.

But well, some people like their binary clean white good/evil dark black factions, other we appreciate that the BT is a nice morally grey setting.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 30 December 2021, 14:24:11
We're arguing in loops, so I'm going to step out of this mess.  Nevertheless, I stand by my statements.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Geont on 30 December 2021, 14:52:18
What if that invasion of Canopian space wasn't on orders from Caesar but rogue action of one of his generals? What if it was work of WoB sleeping cell? There are a lot of possible explanation that doesn't involve Caesar himself.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 30 December 2021, 15:41:53
We're arguing in loops, so I'm going to step out of this mess.  Nevertheless, I stand by my statements.

Its a shame. Its always interesting to chat with people and see how they interpret the canon, or how informed are, about a certain facction or incedent. I will also stand by my statements.


What if that invasion of Canopian space wasn't on orders from Caesar but rogue action of one of his generals? What if it was work of WoB sleeping cell? There are a lot of possible explanation that doesn't involve Caesar himself.

Interesting posibilities. I am pretty sure that there is some General or Senator that dream himself as the next Caesar.

Guessing about mysteries and making hypotesis and conjectures its the fun part IMO. For example, i will do one out of the thing air: The "capellan" supplies in the Gibraltar depots are Lyran. Starcorps is named in the Lakewood´s report as one of the main supplie´s origins. You can always say that elements on the Lyran goverment are using factions inside Starcorp, itself an international corporation with prescense both in the LC and the CC, to get supplies from CC space via Starcorps for the Marians to hide the Lyran involment and pass the fault against the CC.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: rebs on 30 December 2021, 15:52:40
I read about the Marians, but I'm not an invested fan.  That said, they take people as slaves.  They thrive on piracy, but they are making an attempt at becoming a legitimate power.  They used to be straight up space pirates.

But it's pretty clear from Shattered Fortress (page 37) and Hunting Season that they are acting against the Free Worlds League, on behalf of at least the Cappies, if not the Capellan allies, the Magistracy of Canopus. 

I don't see how it can be argued against, but if people want to claim "a different interpretation" of something that is spelled out, I don't blame posters for agreeing to disagree and calling it a day.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 December 2021, 17:21:24
It is like claiming a villain is dead without seeing a body.  Just because records with a shipment documents/serial numbers/builder marks/defining characteristics show it as coming from Capellan space, the only way to be sure of that is if someone observed it making the trip themselves.  First hand vs second hand source reports and all that entails for reliability in investigations & intel work.

Baldur's alternative theory is quite possible- he answers means & motive.

Motive-  The Lyrans have enough instability in the rest of their space and know that Fontaine is still not a happy camper after Hammerfall.  Trillian literally knows this as she met him face to face.  Keeping the Marik border stable/non-threatening would allow her to deal with other problems.

Means-  Lyran Starcorps contracts and contacts would let them perhaps order parts/munitions or at least duplicate the parts/munitions from Capellan Starcorps factories.  The problem with some of these BT trans-nationals is the information between Houses is not partitioned as much as someone may want, and it would be easier to convince a Starcorps Capellan employee to cooperate with a Lyran then a neighboring House.  Especially if it was presented as patriotism by letting the Lyrans stir up problems for the League.  Throwing Cosmic Thoughts About my Godhood by Daoshen Liao in a crate of Thunder LRM ammo was solid.  Ilsya's autobiography How to Win Friends and Influence Family in a case of recoilless rifle ammo was just icing on the cake.

Opportunity-  How long was it between Hammerfall and the discovery of 'Capellan' supplies?  It has been months, and Trillian has shown she can be ruthlessly pragmatic as seen by the Clans squaring of fon Hesperus.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 30 December 2021, 17:44:27
The Capellan / Canopian Supply of Origin sounds more and more to me like an intelligence operation of the  Fontaine SAFE , it has the means and the acquaintances to do it
In Field Manual 3145 they comment that the Ordo Vigilis disarmed a network of infiltrators of the SAFe and various traitors of the VI Legio, although that group was purged, the Legio was changed from Theater of Operations but there could be some survivors of that network who made contact with the MIM get the supplies to justify the war with the Hegemony giving another "Patriotic war" to Fontaine to earn points this to gain popularity to displace Nikol as an inefficient leader, and he as a patriotic leader who defends the NFWL and Nikol she looks like a bad leader before the Andurien / Canopus advance.

Of course it is a theory, although more strange things have been seen in the FWL
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 30 December 2021, 17:48:51
As Baldur Mekorig pointed out, supplying the Marians would put the Cappies at odds with the Canopians and that's a whole can of worms. Also, as with the Jihad books, such "intelligence reports" always have a chance of being "canon rumor" disinformation.

The source in Shattered Fortress is described as being Verified. It's not disinformation, nor is it "canon rumour". Furthermore, it's backed by the same discoveries being covered in Hunting Season, an unquestionably canon source. There is hard evidence stating where the weapons have come from and what the intent is.

The Capellans are supplying the Marians with weapons to attack the Free Worlds League. This is not in dispute. This is canon fact.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: rebs on 30 December 2021, 18:16:56
Nicholas Kerensky founding the Clans is also canon rumor!

 :lol:
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 December 2021, 20:02:26
The source in Shattered Fortress is described as being Verified. It's not disinformation, nor is it "canon rumour". Furthermore, it's backed by the same discoveries being covered in Hunting Season, an unquestionably canon source. There is hard evidence stating where the weapons have come from and what the intent is.

The Capellans are supplying the Marians with weapons to attack the Free Worlds League. This is not in dispute. This is canon fact.

Evidence the materials are produced in the Capellan Confederation is true, so far as the League knows.  Avanti's Angels found supplies on Astrokazy indicating the Confederation was supplying the Hegemony in their raids on the MoC.  Capturing a operative is what let them work past that deception.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 30 December 2021, 20:16:06
Evidence the materials are produced in the Capellan Confederation is true, so far as the League knows.  Avanti's Angels found supplies on Astrokazy indicating the Confederation was supplying the Hegemony in their raids on the MoC.  Capturing a operative is what let them work past that deception.

The RAF found intelligence linking multiple Capellan suppliers to the Marian Hegemony, along with a communique from the Maskrovika explaining their plans and objectives. There's no ambiguity here as to where the weapons are coming from, why they are being supplied or what the objective is here.

Again, I direct you to Shattered Fortress, pg 37. It's all spelled out and isn't in the slightest bit ambigious.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: DOC_Agren on 30 December 2021, 23:30:20
wait we are going to trust RAF Intelligence on a Capellan Operation??
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 31 December 2021, 00:28:36
The RAF found intelligence linking multiple Capellan suppliers to the Marian Hegemony, along with a communique from the Maskrovika explaining their plans and objectives. There's no ambiguity here as to where the weapons are coming from, why they are being supplied or what the objective is here.

Again, I direct you to Shattered Fortress, pg 37. It's all spelled out and isn't in the slightest bit ambigious.

Again, in Double Blind mercenaries found a huge warehouse full of military supplies with manifests showing everything was shipped from the Confederation to the Hegemony.

Just because the paperwork says something does not mean it is true.  This is like Intelligence 101- aka Forgeries for Fun and Profit.  The very fact you have a Mask memo about it lends credence to the theory they are being framed.  Outside of the 4SW they are depicted as one of the best intelligence/covert ops organizations in the Inner Sphere . . . now you want to try to take seriously a smoking gun found on the scene with a signed confession wedged under the slide?

Until we get a OOC entry or a in universe shipping chain, you are still speculating on the path and using IC information that can be wrong.

Is it?  Maybe not, but there are also plenty of other people who would find the Hegemony striking the League useful.  A few factions would also find it useful for the League to think the Cappies are supporting the Hegemony striking the League.

Btw, who profits the most? . . .

 . . . the Republic.  When the League finds out the supplies are 'Capellan', what happens?

A) The League strikes at the Cappies?  Well, the League-Capellan/Andurien/Canopian border heats up further, diverting Cappies & MoC regiments from Daoshen's push on the Republic.  What had been a relatively quiet border for nearly 10 years suddenly has increased garrisons.  Replenishing any supplies or supporting a shift of units ties down Capellan support infrastructure and their build up along the Fortress.

B) The League accuses the Cappies & MoC?  Again, tensions increase which might cause the Canopians to recall their regiments from Daoshen's adventure.  This would cause a decrease in the operational tempo for the Cappies hitting the newly open Fortress worlds depending on timing.  Might also decrease the CC intel assets in the Fortress area.

Btw, like I pointed out above- the Lyrans doing it also has it's advantages and with the axis of advancement having them going after Tamarind rather than trying to once again pick off the still independent world of Kendall which is closer to their core makes sense from their perspective.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: rebs on 31 December 2021, 00:39:56
I highly doubt that multiple sourcebooks and a novel (the main driver of the storyline) are misleading us on this.

But again, as my personal text says, I agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 31 December 2021, 02:54:39
The source in Shattered Fortress is described as being Verified. It's not disinformation, nor is it "canon rumour". Furthermore, it's backed by the same discoveries being covered in Hunting Season, an unquestionably canon source. There is hard evidence stating where the weapons have come from and what the intent is.

The Capellans are supplying the Marians with weapons to attack the Free Worlds League. This is not in dispute. This is canon fact.

As Adacas, Baldur Mekorig and Colt Ward have said, I'll just add and emphasize that it's ridiculous the Cappies will supply a known Canopian enemy and let their ally get invaded.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 31 December 2021, 11:24:35
I highly doubt that multiple sourcebooks and a novel (the main driver of the storyline) are misleading us on this.

But again, as my personal text says, I agree to disagree.

One book that have no omniscient PoV, and one novel (an in-character PoV) that while it says the ammo and supplies appear to be of Capellan origin, says explicitly "We must take Gibraltar first and then check if this accusation have any merit." Chapter 17 of Hunting Season, last paragraph.

So unless we got the Dev/Writter saying "yeah, I WAS the Capellans and accesories supplying the Marians, we dont really know". I provided a good alternative, Colt Ward provided another well-based alternative. Lots of people have to gain of making the FWL belive the CC-MoC is arming their enemies.

Heck, if i clean my old tinfoil hat, i could say the Sharkfoxes and/or the Irian Cabal could have resons to so such operation.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 31 December 2021, 15:58:50
As Adacas, Baldur Mekorig and Colt Ward have said, I'll just add and emphasize that it's ridiculous the Cappies will supply a known Canopian enemy and let their ally get invaded.

They did because it suited their purpose at the time. Keeping the League busy takes the pressure off the Capellans as well as their allies, the Canopians and the Anduriens. This leaves the Capellans free to attack he Republic, which they have seen as their true enemy for decades. It also gives them the chance at seizing Terra, a goal that they also have set their eyes on.

Yes, there was indeed the risk that the Marians would then turn around and attack Canopus. This would be a setback, but it would pale in comparison to the advantages gained. Look at how the balance sheet has worked out; the Canopians had several worlds attacked, which they then reclaimed. They then struck back at the Marians and claimed two worlds while inflicting significant military defeats on them. At the same time, the CCAF has advanced to the verge of Terra.

The result? The Capellans are this close to their goal. The Canopians have also made considerable gains at the expense of the Marians. In short, it worked out fantastically for them.

All of this makes sense. All of this fits pre-established patterns of behaviour. And, as noted, there are multiple sources supporting all of this and nothing at all that contradicts it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 01 January 2022, 02:41:44
Two sources, and neither source is the instigator's POV which means it is not verified.



IF the supplies are from the Capellans, and they were significant enough to the Hegemony's advance to be shipped with all that supporting packaging and paperwork (and duh, again Intel 101 you sanitize something like that) then it would also stand to reason the Caeser might have heard about a 90+ year old alliance between the golden goose (Cappies) and their perif friends.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: tapdancingbeavers on 01 January 2022, 04:21:26
As Adacas, Baldur Mekorig and Colt Ward have said, I'll just add and emphasize that it's ridiculous the Cappies will supply a known Canopian enemy and let their ally get invaded.

I don't find it ridiculous at all, it's not like they haven't used and sacrificed Canopian resources before for their own gain or the "greater good".  Although that doesn't seem like the case here, they helped the Marians attack a mutual enemy which could be expected to direct resources that could be used against the Canopians towards a mutual enemy.

Sure it could the Lyrans giving the falsely marked supplies but it could be the Homeworlds too.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 01 January 2022, 05:38:46
Two sources, and neither source is the instigator's POV which means it is not verified.

And yet, there's no evidence at all even suggesting that the weapons come from any other source. All you have is your own speculation, which amounts to wild guessing without any substance.

Also that logic is flawed at best. Yes, we don't have a scene from the instigator's perspective, however we still both have evidence to support the claim and no evidence to contradict it.

By the same reasoning, I could claim that since Ignatius O'Reily has never appeared in person in a novel, that he doesn't exist and that the Marian Hegemony is actually ruled by Big Bird.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 01 January 2022, 09:00:08
Quote
By the same reasoning, I could claim that since Ignatius O'Reily has never appeared in person in a novel, that he doesn't exist and that the Marian Hegemony is actually ruled by Big Bird.

The diference is, that the existance of Ignatius is confirmed by an omnicient source, and it even gave us RPG stats for him. Dont be lazy with your post, put at least a little work on them Deadborder.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: rebs on 01 January 2022, 10:30:44
The novels are the "True" spine of the BT universe.  If Hunting Season says the Cappies have supplied the Marians with ammunition for an offensive to keep the FWL occupied, you can bet with 100% assurance that that it is true. 

Even if Nikol Marik's pov is clouded by the fact that she is best friends with Danai.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: rebs on 01 January 2022, 10:34:07
We'll know for sure soon, I suspect.  Then we'll see more verbal gymnastics here on the Marian thread.

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 01 January 2022, 11:02:35
The novels are the "True" spine of the BT universe.  If Hunting Season says the Cappies have supplied the Marians with ammunition for an offensive to keep the FWL occupied, you can bet with 100% assurance that that it is true. 

Even if Nikol Marik's pov is clouded by the fact that she is best friends with Danai.

Dude, really, you talk about "verbal gymnastics" while doing it?

No one is denying that supplies of capellan origin were found in Gibraltar. Its even in the novel. What me, Colt Ward and other are pointing out, its that that fact does not necessarily means that the Capellas and their accessories are actually providing them. Even in the novel, which you say  "are the "True" spine of the BT universe" says that they need to investigate further more to see if the theory that the capellans are backing the MH have merit or not. As i already say, you can have easily 2 equally possible and logical sources for those supplies. Lastly, the only way to be 100% sure if that theory is true or not, is if the devs/authors confirm it, or appears in a novel confirming it, like Daoshen publically admitting it to someone or something for the like.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: rebs on 01 January 2022, 11:53:57
I have a novel and a soucebook on my side! 

You have to prove it's wrong.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 01 January 2022, 12:42:31
I have a novel and a soucebook on my side! 

You have to prove it's wrong.

“But that is not all,” Armand continued. “Let me call your attention to the issue on the addendum: during the retreat, the Seventh Tamarind Regulars captured some of the Second Legio’s supplies. Normally this wouldn’t be worth noting, but the after-action reports state that this represented a sizable cache of munitions. Some of those munitions are Canopus-made, probably stolen. But the majority of the stockpile was of… Capellan manufacture.” Armand met the eyes of every member of the war council. “Capellan munitions. Capellan Confederation munitions were employed in the fall of Gibraltar.”

“But none of that takes the Capellan factor into account,” said Serafina Rivera said, tapping a fingertip against her crimson lips. “We need to gather conclusive proof of whether Daoshen Liao provided arms to our enemies.”

Nikol regarded everyone in the room. “We must campaign to retake Gibraltar, and then investigate whether this accusation of collusion with the Capellan Confederation holds any merit. To strike against the Confederation without proof would only escalate matters. So we must shore up our borders before slinging accusations against our most powerful neighbor.” She owed Danai that much.

All this from Hunting Season, Chapter 17.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 02 January 2022, 02:01:50
There's considerable evidence pointing towards the Capellans being the source of the weapons. Furthermore, the Capellans very much have the motivation to do such. Conversely, there's nothing at all beyond wild speculation to say that the weapons have come from anywhere else.

If you have anything at all saying that it's anyone but the Capellans then I'd love to see it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 02 January 2022, 03:05:13
The Lyrans have the motive to plant these supplies through Loki/LIC and keep their neighbours busy.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 02 January 2022, 03:08:32
The Lyrans have the motive to plant these supplies through Loki/LIC and keep their neighbours busy.

They have motivation, yes. But any Lyran involvement is pure speculation, something that you've personally said upthread cannot be used as proof of anything.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 02 January 2022, 08:25:53
There's considerable evidence pointing towards the Capellans being the source of the weapons. Furthermore, the Capellans very much have the motivation to do such. Conversely, there's nothing at all beyond wild speculation to say that the weapons have come from anywhere else.

If you have anything at all saying that it's anyone but the Capellans then I'd love to see it.


As Colt Ward already told, its Intel 101. Honestly it would be horribly amateurish for the Maskirovka or MIM to gave those supplies to the Marians with the "Made in Sian" label on it the the dropship sending receipt. And before you says it,yes, the chances of the Leaguers capturing those supplies were big enough in any scenario. So, either the famed Mask/MIM got terribly sloopy, or someone is trying to get the blame on them.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: rebs on 02 January 2022, 10:36:30
BattleTech and RL Intel 101 don't always mix.

My money is on the books, not...  a fan theory with no evidence.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 02 January 2022, 16:06:33

As Colt Ward already told, its Intel 101. Honestly it would be horribly amateurish for the Maskirovka or MIM to gave those supplies to the Marians with the "Made in Sian" label on it the the dropship sending receipt. And before you says it,yes, the chances of the Leaguers capturing those supplies were big enough in any scenario. So, either the famed Mask/MIM got terribly sloopy, or someone is trying to get the blame on them.

All Colt did was provide baseless speculation with no evidence at all to support it.

If you have tangible evidence at all that suggests it's anyone other than the Capellans providing the weapons, then fine. I'd love to see it, as nobody so far has been able to produce anything other then baseless speculation. However, as it stands, all the evidence points towards them. There is nothing at all that points to anyone else.

But let's break this down anyway.

If the weapons were supplied by the Capellans it requires a Mask memo to be captured by the RAF and then some of the weapons to be captured by the FWL, neither of which were planned for.

Simple. Straightforward. The only risk is being caught.

If the weapons were supplied by a third party to frame the Capellans it requires a lot more to happen. First, that third party needs to acquire weapons from multiple Capellan suppliers. Then they need to ship them to the Marians while maintaining the illusion that they are coming from the Capellans. Then they need to fake up a verifiable Mask memo. Then they need that memo to be captured by the RAF who are, as far as anyone knows, still confined behind the walls of Fortress Republic. Then they need the RAF to pass on that intel to the FWL, a state that they have been historically hostile towards. Then they need the FWL to capture enough of the Capellan supplied weapons to be able to trace them back to their point of origin. And that in turn requires you to supply weapons to a wide range of MHAF units since you can't guarantee which ones will attack the FWL. And you also need to ensure that there are enough spare weapons that the FWL will capture some of them. Which means that you have to ensure that some of said weapons are in a position to be captured, which in turn requires arranging that capture to happen.

Not only does this version have a lot more moving parts, but it also is assuming a degree of incompetence on the Marians' behalf given that the plan relies on the FWL capturing Marian supplies. Plus it assumes that previously antagonistic states, one of which is at that point hidden behind the Wall of Fortress Republic, to share intel. It also requires the Marians to be effectively played twice; they have to be the patsies of somebody pretending to be the Capellans in order for this plan to work.

The memo is one of the key points here. If they wanted to frame the Cappies, then why not leak the memo directly to the FWL? Why go through a third party and over-complicate the whole chain while risking that it might not reach the intended destination? Why make it more complicated then it needs to be?

And let's not forget, the memo on pg 37 of Shattered Fortress is presented as something that the RAF discovered. Since the RAF discovery is sourcebook fiction, it's canon. This rules out the RAF as the originator of the plan.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ActionButler on 02 January 2022, 19:29:02
**MOD NOTICE**

Friendly reminder that this site is for debating topics of conversation and not taking personal shots at other Battletech fans.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 January 2022, 10:33:46
Since the RAF discovery is sourcebook fiction, it's canon. This rules out the RAF as the originator of the plan.

How?  There are plenty of times the majority of the Republic operates unaware that a Ghost Knight is moving pieces on the opposite side of the board to set things up for a Republic favoring outcome.  Harwell/Jones/Holt situation as first presented in a novel is just one case.

I think your stating of the Republic's awareness is backward, but I do not have Shattered Fortress pdf handy right now- I think you might have the info flow backwards but I will have to check.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Deadborder on 03 January 2022, 15:28:14
I strongly suggest you read the evidence before you start disputing it.

The header on the report is from Janella Lakewood who is the head of RAF intel operations outside the wall (while operating from inside the Wall itself). She has had access to RAF intel at the highest level, including Ghost Knight ops.

It explicitly mentions the discovery of MHAF depots with Capellan weapons in them. It also describes an 'elaborate ruse' to cover the source, with a verifiable paper trail leading back to the Capellan Confederation. It describes the evidence linking the weapons to the Confederation as "solid" and has been cross-referenced by RAF agents and verified. And that's before it even gets to the Mask memo.

Shattered Fortress pg 37 explicitly names the Capellans as the source. It also makes it abundantly clear that this is not something the Republic was aware of at all at the highest levels. Not only does it rule out the Republic as the source of the weapons, but it rules out any other nation as being the source as well. And once again, there is no evidence even suggesting that anyone other then the Capellans are the source.

Finally, I need to bring up Double Blind which you have used as the basis of your argument as it was a similar situation involving similar players. However, in that case, the duplicity was confirmed by both novel and sourcebook fiction. Conversely, in this case, there is no fiction at all to even suggest that there is such duplicity going on.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 08 June 2022, 11:31:22
So the Hegemony gets a few Omnis in the IlClan- Era and we get some non airborne C3Ms as well. Options, options....  ^-^
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 08 June 2022, 13:34:56
Yeah


Strider
Gun
Blackjack Omni
Avatar


Beatiful options

There will be more that appears to us in the IlClan Era, beyond these Omni Inner Sphere, perhaps some Second Line Clan options, and some modern models of the Inner Sphere.

But I would also be interested in expanding tanks and ASF/DS capabilities
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 13 June 2022, 17:43:32
Add 3 More

Whight 2SC
Longbow OW
Longbow OW2

Added was both IlClan List and Dark Age List

They came because they were added to the Periphery General List

Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 14 June 2022, 12:00:30
Good catch. Longbows are always good to have. Never tried the Whight- should give it a test run soon....
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 14 June 2022, 12:08:25
Good catch. Longbows are always good to have. Never tried the Whight- should give it a test run soon....

I haven't used him in combat yet but I have a Wight already painted I'll see how he behaves
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Starfury on 14 June 2022, 13:13:21
Yay! We'll finally be able to add the Thanatos and the Gladiator to C3 lances! We're in the Fed Com era now!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 14 June 2022, 14:10:04
It's still in beta mode, so don't assume that things won't get taken away.  Wait for them to take the warning down before doing victory dances.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 14 June 2022, 14:46:49
And if they do, scream SALVAGE!!!

Of course you might need to hose it out...

And do some repairs, that kinda fell off the dropship on that planet you visited with some of your buddies on that last vaca you had...

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: DOC_Agren on 14 June 2022, 20:41:34
And if they do, scream SALVAGE!!!

Of course you might need to hose it out...

And do some repairs, that kinda fell off the dropship on that planet you visited with some of your buddies on that last vaca you had...

TT
don't you hate it when you buy surplus gear and it already broken   8)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 16 June 2022, 16:05:03
Add Locust 7V and Crusader 2R, summed from Periphery General List
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 18 June 2022, 03:56:18
Useful additions, something else to play around with.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 18 June 2022, 10:14:25
Useful additions, something else to play around with.  :thumbsup:


Tomorrow I have an AS game I made a list adding an Avatar option and a Wight I'll tell you how they worked with the rest of the team
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 19 June 2022, 07:03:52
Thanks!

I am fiddling around with an undead Century, 2 Wights, 2 Cadaver and a Ghost. Perhaps get to play it tonight- do not expect too much from it but I hope it will be a fun game.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 19 June 2022, 14:27:32
I wonder...

An MH Infantry Century using a pair of Prowler Amphib tanks, one SW and one Support... 12 tons of cargo fun.

1 LRM-15
2 SRM-2
4 ML

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 19 June 2022, 15:52:01
That's not bad at all. How's the cargo split up? Can you actually put whole 3-ton sub-platoons in them without splitting any?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 20 June 2022, 00:27:43
SW uses 8 tons while the Support has 4.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 20 June 2022, 10:32:05
Dangit. 'Twas a good idea, though. Would work really well for any group that uses standard IS organization for supporting a company of jump troops.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 20 June 2022, 12:41:57
Thanks!

I am fiddling around with an undead Century, 2 Wights, 2 Cadaver and a Ghost. Perhaps get to play it tonight- do not expect too much from it but I hope it will be a fun game.

Well I combat tested the Avatar and the Wight in Alpha Strike as part of a Contingent armed with IlClan's MUL Marian List.
The Combat was lost, a couple of my bad decisions about not concentrating fire backfired on my troops.
The OJ variant Avatar, I think I remember, lowered half of the armor of a Thunderbolt or almost all of it, but later it was shot down when several mechs concentrated fire on it.
The Wight held out until the last round of the Match, coming within a critical of taking down a Warhammer.
As it has happened to me in the last games of Alpha Strike, the Vixen 2 has been the MVP knocked down by the Back to the Thunderbolt, peeling a Catapult, a Marauder and a Centurion from Armor doing criticals to the 3, the Marauder fell later in the next turn
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 20 June 2022, 13:20:56
The Incubus is a beast for its weight class. We have only 3 Clan Mechs but each of them is good st what it does.

Thanks for the game report!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 20 June 2022, 13:29:16
Dangit. 'Twas a good idea, though. Would work really well for any group that uses standard IS organization for supporting a company of jump troops.

Twin SW would work with two Support per Lance and something AAA mounted? Or fire supported, hell, a MH Scuba Century...

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 20 June 2022, 13:45:53
You've lost me completely.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 20 June 2022, 13:57:30
You've lost me completely.

Two Successor War and two Support Prowler tanks with the fifth being something AAA-ish or a fire support Prowler, like another Support Prowler. Now add a Scuba Century to this, instead of a Jump Century .

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 20 June 2022, 16:50:23
The Incubus is a beast for its weight class. We have only 3 Clan Mechs but each of them is good st what it does.

Thanks for the game report!

This is the second time adacas uses the Vixen/Incubus in a AS game, and yes, the little thing is worth every point of its PV. The Rifleman IIC is also a beast for its PV. Adacas problem was dividing his forces way too much, and i used my lances (a IlClan Taurian and Merc lances) as....well, lances, and focused fire.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 20 June 2022, 19:05:48
Two Successor War and two Support Prowler tanks with the fifth being something AAA-ish or a fire support Prowler, like another Support Prowler. Now add a Scuba Century to this, instead of a Jump Century .

TT

That could be fun. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: DOC_Agren on 24 June 2022, 21:53:16
Two Successor War and two Support Prowler tanks with the fifth being something AAA-ish or a fire support Prowler, like another Support Prowler. Now add a Scuba Century to this, instead of a Jump Century .

TT
I like it..
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 24 June 2022, 22:42:43
I like it..

Bahh,,, you like anything I make.  ;)

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 27 June 2022, 14:02:34
Add other Wight Variant and Orión 1- MA
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 28 June 2022, 11:00:54
Both solid choices. The Plasmawight is nasty in combined arms games like the ones I usually am involved in.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 28 June 2022, 12:11:01
They are good mechs, hopefully we will continue to receive good mechs and more modern equipment from now on
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 30 June 2022, 07:42:33
Add 5 more mechs

Withworth -2
Javelin -10N
Urbie R-60
Guillotine 4L
Hunchback 4H
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 30 June 2022, 10:28:50
I am glad to see the WTH is back even if I prefer the classic to the upgrade I shall not complain.  :thumbsup:

The rest are ok too, giving us more variants for filling second line Centuries.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 30 June 2022, 14:34:26
Second line Centuries?

We're Clan now? Khan O'Reilly is leading us, quineg?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 30 June 2022, 15:03:24
I am glad to see the WTH is back even if I prefer the classic to the upgrade I shall not complain.  :thumbsup:

The rest are ok too, giving us more variants for filling second line Centuries.

Martius send you something by PM
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 01 July 2022, 08:18:53
 :thumbsup:  Got it! Thanks!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 01 July 2022, 10:37:35
:thumbsup:  Got it! Thanks!


Send again hahah
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 04 July 2022, 11:15:22
+3 Mechs
+2 ASF

Cronus 5M
Merlin -1C
Hollander III BZk-D1

Chettah F-10
Seydlitz Z2
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 05 July 2022, 12:32:54
Not bad, the Chronus looks good. Have yet to try the uAC Hollander. While I am not afraid to use Ultras in double Tap mode the lack of secondary weapons bothers me a bit. Especially as I would like to avoid physical combat because of the glazed armour.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 05 July 2022, 18:09:55
The Hollander in all of its forms has always struck me as a mech that works better in a group than as a duelist. You have a front line of short and medium-ranged brawlers, and then the Hollander and mechs like it are a few hexes behind in a second rank providing supporting fire and punching holes for your first rank to exploit.

In Republican Roman terms, the Hollander is a Principes unit, and needs Hastati in front of it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 06 July 2022, 12:14:25
Very true, Weirdo.

I will try to pair it up with Yeomen in a support Century. Lets see how this works.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 06 July 2022, 14:48:30
Using cheap(ish) light machines for your support rank means that if you want to go all-in with that pattern, it's easier to upgrade their skills like the Principes and Triarii troops were. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 06 July 2022, 17:06:29
Would you use paired Miles Hollander, a Miles Probate Yeoman, a Principia Merlin and a Centurion Centurion?

 8)

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 06 July 2022, 17:54:42
I would assume that despite being fans of a faction that cosplays as Roman on the weekends, none of the readers of my posts actually have degrees in Roman military organization and word my posts with an appropriate English/Latin ratio.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 06 July 2022, 18:00:11
Been since "93 for Basic Latin, graduated after that...

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Ruger on 06 July 2022, 20:07:27
Been since "93 for Basic Latin, graduated after that...

TT

‘89 or ‘90 was my year of Latin.

Ruger
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 06 July 2022, 20:54:41
You guys actually had access to Latin classes?!?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 06 July 2022, 21:13:00
Yeah, some HS allowed it as an elective.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: VensersRevenge on 06 July 2022, 22:13:33
And most universities still teach it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Ruger on 07 July 2022, 03:51:30
Yeah, some HS allowed it as an elective.

TT

They offered it to my eight grade class one year, so I took it. Didn’t continue it past that, so had to choose Spanish or French after that.

Ruger
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 07 July 2022, 08:18:52
Had mandatory latin classes for 4 years at school, forgot almost everything though. Helped me a lot at university with medical terms though and allows me to read french, spanish or italian with some success.

Back on topic:

Velites are the Wights, Jackals and Incubi then? Fast, light, hard hitting long ranged weapons....
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 July 2022, 12:59:47
For mechs, while it would be hovercraft like the Gladius when talking about vehicles.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 09 July 2022, 02:59:57
Exactly. Especially the Gladius II shines in that role with those RLs.

Just reading through Empire Alone- the MH gets hit hard. I like that- many desperate battles to fight, we are back in our role as ruthless underdog. It were those traits (besides the fact that I just like everything Roman) that drew me to this faction long, long ago....
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 09 July 2022, 07:44:02
Underdog isn't the right term.  Underdogs don't pick fights.
A wounded boar backed into a corner might be a better analogy.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 09 July 2022, 08:50:31
We seem the same as always since the secession of Lothario to here they continue to make us appear as a gang of incompetent inepts with a lot of courage in some cases but in most cases as people who stumble when they jog, I hope that when what they threaten happens in the end from the book "the most warlike forces of the periphery" reappear and kill every invader who steps on our soil, no slaves, no smiles and go home, the only way to give a message to all the surrounding rats is that attacking us has a high cost, too high
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Crimson Dynamo on 09 July 2022, 09:27:57
Yeah, I'm worried for the Hegemony as a faction moving forward. Isolde Centrella seems to be the unstoppable woman of destiny, and knowing she's taking her brigade-sized force to Alphard is cause for considerable worry to this casual fan. Ignatius O'Reilly is not portrayed favorably even if his popular image is as a just and beneficent ruler, and I'm worried they're setting up a regime change and turning the Marians into a Canopian satellite as the best-possible case.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: DOC_Agren on 09 July 2022, 13:52:10
You guys actually had access to Latin classes?!?
I got 1 year about 88 in High School
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 10 July 2022, 05:26:05
Yeah, I'm worried for the Hegemony as a faction moving forward. Isolde Centrella seems to be the unstoppable woman of destiny, and knowing she's taking her brigade-sized force to Alphard is cause for considerable worry to this casual fan. Ignatius O'Reilly is not portrayed favorably even if his popular image is as a just and beneficent ruler, and I'm worried they're setting up a regime change and turning the Marians into a Canopian satellite as the best-possible case.

Well, we got a lot of pocket warships on our RAT suddenly. Not the new stuff with subcaps and so but the old, nasty Wobby ships that are not built for battle but for genocide.  :D

If we fall, we fall. But I hope we go out with a bang.

OTOH Alphard was attacked before in the hope to break the Marian's spines, to demoralize them. Did not work well back then, but  WoB was not the Canopians...
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: MDFification on 10 July 2022, 06:25:02
It only just occurred to me that Ignatius O'Reilly shares his name with the main character in A Confederacy of Dunces. I don't know what the ramifications of this are for the Hegemony, but I assume they're dire.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Angrii on 10 July 2022, 09:15:13
It only just occurred to me that Ignatius O'Reilly shares his name with the main character in A Confederacy of Dunces. I don't know what the ramifications of this are for the Hegemony, but I assume they're dire.

Good catch! I hadn't realized that but it's starting to make sense...
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Jellico on 12 July 2022, 02:17:11

Well, we got a lot of pocket warships on our RAT suddenly. Not the new stuff with subcaps and so but the old, nasty Wobby ships that are not built for battle but for genocide.  :D

If we fall, we fall. But I hope we go out with a bang.

OTOH Alphard was attacked before in the hope to break the Marian's spines, to demoralize them. Did not work well back then, but  WoB was not the Canopians...


I merely point out the noted units are plausible refits that allow the Hegemony to play with the bigger players.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: BrianDavion on 12 July 2022, 05:00:27

Well, we got a lot of pocket warships on our RAT suddenly. Not the new stuff with subcaps and so but the old, nasty Wobby ships that are not built for battle but for genocide.  :D

If we fall, we fall. But I hope we go out with a bang.

OTOH Alphard was attacked before in the hope to break the Marian's spines, to demoralize them. Did not work well back then, but  WoB was not the Canopians...


TBH I doubt the Canopians intend to stay and occupy, as you said that won't really work, but a lighting strike on the capitol that ideally captures the ceaser and senate, followed by a humiliating treaty signed at gunpoint? that I could see
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: jimdigris on 12 July 2022, 05:45:52
They could hand out rifles and ammunition to all the slaves too.  That would keep things busy for a long time.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 12 July 2022, 10:00:21
I merely point out the noted units are plausible refits that allow the Hegemony to play with the bigger players.

These were exactly my thoughts as well. Nothing fancy, nothing too high tech for the faction but still nothing that can be ignored lightly. Also fits the storyline and background well. A good addition IMO.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 17 July 2022, 19:03:47
For a while I have been trying to decide which Marian formation to follow . . . but there is a game coming up that I decided to field Marians as my theme force, even though the one-off game does not require it.  I am going to have a CN9-Ar, CN9-H2, CN9-H2H, CN9-H3 and as the final mech in the maniple a Emperor 6L.  The Emperor would otherwise be a more standard 6A model at later times.

This will have me paint 2 Centurions (already have a woodland & Avalon Hussars) and a primitive Emperor for this game, though only 1 Cent will be in the MH scheme.

(https://camospecs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/64_phlop_1stlegio_archer6w1.jpg?166752&166752)

Decided I will be going with the I Legion Matria Victrix like in the image above, but with a darker blue . . . maybe a gray primer rather than white to make the blue darker.  With them being present through all eras it helps.  The only other one I was interested put Maroon & Orange together, and anyone who has lived in Texas knows that is absolutely wrong.

All though the Cohors Morituri would be interesting, I think the bigger Marian fan already puts them down.

So tell me of the glories of the I Legion!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: MDFification on 17 July 2022, 19:22:29
So tell me of the glories of the I Legion!

The I Legio are the Praetorian Guard, the most fanatically loyal servants of the Caesar. How loyal, do you ask? During Julius O'Reilly's coup against his father, once they realized the odds of their master keeping his throne was hopeless, half the legio fought to the death - and the other half committed mass suicide rather than serve another master. They have only ever been led by the Caesar himself, or by the Imperator (the highest ranking member of the Marian military - it used to be the Marian head of state's title, but after the office of Caesar was created it became the Caesar's right hand). Their tactics, as befitting their primary role (protecting either the Caesar or whatever he needds held at all costs - traditionally Alphard or Illyria) are heavily oriented towards defensive warfare and entrenchment.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 17 July 2022, 22:09:20
Gentelmen...

I present a query :

Command Centry

Highlander-740
Archer-8M
Archer-8M
Medium??
Medium??

And in support I have these :

Support Artillery Maniple

Prowler w/ Gun Trailer Thumper
Prowler ECM w/ Gun Trailer Thumper
Prowler Support w/ Gun Trailer LRM - 1x Jump Support Infantry StarCorps Jump Assault Infantry
Prowler Support w/ Gun Trailer Stronghold - 2x Jump Support Infantry StarCorps Jump Assault Infantry
Prowler Support w/ Gun Trailer Stronghold - 2x Jump Support Infantry StarCorps Jump Assault Infantry

My question is this, first I need two Medium mechs to support my unit, and secondly, what other mechs would work with this. Main goal to complete a Cohort, IlClan era.

Thanks,
TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Ruger on 18 July 2022, 05:12:01
I would suggest either a pair of Hunchbacks or Centurions to complete the Century.

Then, since you specify ‘Mechs, on the other two Maniples, I would go with one heavy Century, two Medium (edit: at least one cavalry) Centuries and a light Century.

Edit 2: the heavy Maniple should be a heavy battle Century; probably accompanied by a similar speed medium Century (all around 4/6 movement). The third Maniple would be the maneuver unit, with a cavalry medium Century of 5/8/5 and 6/9/6 movers, and the light Century 6/9/6 or faster/more mobile units.

Ruger
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 July 2022, 09:10:42
I am going to have a CN9-Ar, CN9-H2, CN9-H2H, CN9-H3

Anyone used those H series Centurions?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 18 July 2022, 11:17:21
Truetanker:

What you've got so far is a siege/assault force that can drop a horrendous amount of covering fire. I would build Second Century as a close assault force meant to charge in and take advantage of that cover and kick your target's teeth in. Try to shoot for the 5/8 speed bracket, to give your force enough speed to take advantage of situations. Not sure if anything is available, but units with reactive armor would be particularly useful as you won't have to slack off the bombardment when they get mixed in. Third Century should be fast, to function as scouts and counter-flankers and prevent your opponent from exploiting the slowness of your overall group. If you can, attaching some Marauder squads to this group would give you good spotters and a fast infantry contingent, and while this is very clearly a brute force kind of group, their TAGs will allow you the option of precision strikes when called for.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 18 July 2022, 11:42:51
Anyone used those H series Centurions?

Yes, I did a few ti,es. Good to bully Indys with but fall apart quickly against BattleMechs of the same era.

I really like the fluff of the CN-9H2. Being sold as construction kit offers many possibilities story/scenario wise, it has the potential to become the Toyota Truck or AK-47 of 'Mechs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 18 July 2022, 18:16:59
So the twin Thumpers aren't overpowering for this unit? Or should I go Testudo instead?

And thanks for helping.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 18 July 2022, 19:50:32
The I Legio are the Praetorian Guard, the most fanatically loyal servants of the Caesar. How loyal, do you ask? During Julius O'Reilly's coup against his father, once they realized the odds of their master keeping his throne was hopeless, half the legio fought to the death - and the other half committed mass suicide rather than serve another master. They have only ever been led by the Caesar himself, or by the Imperator (the highest ranking member of the Marian military - it used to be the Marian head of state's title, but after the office of Caesar was created it became the Caesar's right hand). Their tactics, as befitting their primary role (protecting either the Caesar or whatever he needds held at all costs - traditionally Alphard or Illyria) are heavily oriented towards defensive warfare and entrenchment.

That may have been in the time of Sean or Julius, the I Legio being the most traditional, but from 3080 onwards they have been out of their once traditional location in Alphard.
Illyria is more the Base of operations of 2 Legions, the II Legio and the IV Legio, which alternately follow each other as a garrison of the Province + some merc units

It is more from the period of 3090 onwards they asked to be hunting pirates from the Ruins of Circinus from then on because the Legio felt responsible for the death of Cesar who was the father of Ignatius in his campaign in Logan Prime, after this they took as Base Valerius/Blantleff to make defensive actions, and offensive campaigns against the pirates of Circinus and beyond.

The two most Defense oriented Legions historically were the IV Legio specialized in Insurgency/Counter-Insurgency.
The III Legio before the last events was a Legio Limitanei, that is, a Legio for the defense of its own borders/territories, (Towards 3090 this changes).
The II Legio is the most offensive oriented legio, it is an Assault/Heavy Legio oriented to the planetary assault, if I remember correctly the II Legio was the Legio that during the period 3080/3130 destroyed a couple of Marik units (One of Marik's Protectors and I can't remember the other one).
Nominally Caesar does not have a Praetorian Guard (at least one unit of mechs that is), if there is an Infantry unit (Mobiliarius that is attached to the Custody of Caesar and the Senate)
This is something that always surprised me that a unit of "Bodyguards" of Cesar had not been formed, of at least a Reinforced Cohort, there were times when the Mortuori Cohort fulfilled that function (if quite strange, right?)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 July 2022, 22:06:56
eh . . . "He dies, you all die" is a pretty serious incentive.

But yeah, I Legio has a scheme I can paint and exists through the time . . . though if someone wants to suggest a 'dead' Legion for the Dark Ages- not even sure there is one- I might not be opposed, can always fluff it is a attempt to restore them from a wealthy Senator.  A sort of Crassus legion.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Nerroth on 18 July 2022, 23:35:32
Not exactly "dead" dead - more like "dead to me", from the Caesar's perspective - but there is the turncoat Punic Legion over in the "post-Marian" Lothian League. They have a new unit logo in Era Report: 3145, but (so far as I'm aware) have yet to be given an official paint scheme. They still adhere to the MHAF military structure, at last reporting.

Actually, Field Manual: 3145 refers to a second unit called the Lothian Guards. So far as I'm aware, they don't have a logo or a paint scheme as of yet. But then, their maniple of 'Mechs is rotated in from the Punic Legion, so whether they'd go to the trouble of re-branding for the duration of each deployment is another matter...
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 19 July 2022, 10:11:49
So the twin Thumpers aren't overpowering for this unit? Or should I go Testudo instead?

I'd say the Thumpers are fine.

Testudos aren't support units, they're main battle tanks with a coaxial demolition gun. The Ultra and the heavy armor are core facets of the unit and if they're not getting used at the same time as the Arrow, then quite frankly it's a waste of resources.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 21 July 2022, 19:52:21
UPDATE:

Command Centry

Highlander-740
Archer-8M
Archer-8M
Centurion-10B
Trebuchet-7M

Calvary Century

Ostroc-2Cb
Ostroc-4C
Ostsol-5C
Griffin-2N
Griffin-3N

Armor Maniple

Maxim Infantry Command - 1x Marauder Squad
Maxim Infantry - 2x Marian Jump LRM Squads ( Platoon ), 1x Gorilla Falcata* Squad
Partisan Cell AC
Partisan Cell AC
Partisan Cell LRM
Partisan Cell LRM
SRM Carrier Cell
SRM Carrier Cell
Vedette Cell - 1x Marauder Squad
Vedette Cell - 1x Marauder Squad

Support Artillery Maniple

Prowler w/ Gun Trailer Thumper
Prowler ECM w/ Gun Trailer Thumper
Prowler Support w/ Gun Trailer LRM - 1x Jump Support Infantry StarCorps Jump Assault Infantry
Prowler Support w/ Gun Trailer Stronghold - 2x Jump Support Infantry StarCorps Jump Assault Infantry
Prowler Support w/ Gun Trailer Stronghold - 2x Jump Support Infantry StarCorps Jump Assault Infantry

(NOTE: * Gorilla Falcata Squad looks fun... )

The above too much?

And still need to get ten more Mechs... What's the class faviortes?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Saint on 22 July 2022, 09:25:36
Jagermech 6H
Icarus II
Gladiator 5R
Emperor
Commando H or Firestarter H
To add more of a Marian flavor. And as a plus all are solid designs.

And if you're really brave add in some militamechs and armed industrials to flesh it out. ;)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 23 July 2022, 00:32:09
truetanker:
I would add a fast Century of light 'Mechs for harassing and flanking (Ostscouts, Wights, Razorbacks- and of course a Firestarter), as well as a century of 4/6/x heavies (we got lovely Marauders, Thunderbolts and Warhammers for this) to be able to smash through heavy resistance or to hold a line. If you want to get extra nasty add an Incubus to your light Century and a Rifleman II C to your heavies.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: DOC_Agren on 23 July 2022, 21:20:02
Wasp 5A
Assassin ASN30 (if u can swap the LBX5 for LL or PPC)
Storm Raider STM-R1
Firestarter
Strider (Omni)

Axman AXM-3S (because who doesn't love a crazy mech pilot with a Axe and AC20)
Thunderbolt
Archer
Warhammer (because I love them)
Zeus 9S
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Coriendal on 31 July 2022, 10:37:25
As a thought exercise....

If you were the founder of the Marian Hegemony and wanted home grown industry what would you do?

Buy Jumpships and Dropships and find techs, farmers, terraformers, etc. and bring them to your new world.  Hire those mercenaries to protect your find but heavily invest in basic industry.

When it comes to adding Battlemechs/Aerospace fighters keep it simple.  Since you can build many weights of units with one engine why not start and end with the 240 Fusion engine.

The great thing about it is you can build a 30, 40, 60 and 80 ton mech and a 30, 40, 60 and 80 ton Aerospace fighter with one engine.

Example:  ASF:  Centurion 30T, Sparrowhawk 40T, Hellcat 60T, Stingray 60T, Vulcan 80T
                 BM:  Spider 30T, Hermes II 40 T, Rifleman 60T, Thug 80T

With the massive amount of Germanium he found could he have established a self sufficient world and attracted a company to set up shop on his world?


Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 31 July 2022, 12:19:53
As a thought exercise....

If you were the founder of the Marian Hegemony and wanted home grown industry what would you do?

Buy Jumpships and Dropships and find techs, farmers, terraformers, etc. and bring them to your new world.  Hire those mercenaries to protect your find but heavily invest in basic industry.

When it comes to adding Battlemechs/Aerospace fighters keep it simple.  Since you can build many weights of units with one engine why not start and end with the 240 Fusion engine.

The great thing about it is you can build a 30, 40, 60 and 80 ton mech and a 30, 40, 60 and 80 ton Aerospace fighter with one engine.

Example:  ASF:  Centurion 30T, Sparrowhawk 40T, Hellcat 60T, Stingray 60T, Vulcan 80T
                 BM:  Spider 30T, Hermes II 40 T, Rifleman 60T, Thug 80T

With the massive amount of Germanium he found could he have established a self sufficient world and attracted a company to set up shop on his world?


Well maybe what I would have tried to do is some mech or ASF in time earlier
Alphard is a self-sufficient world with a population that is roughly half of the current Earth.
The other worlds of the Alphard Province are less populated in old publications says that the next in population size is Suetonius and then less population
Those with less population for having been founded by Marius are New Venice, Horatius and Marius Tears. the youngest colonial world is in another province and is Valerius.

Returning to the subject of attracting a company, perhaps it would have been good, but perhaps not because they would have wanted to keep the ATC and perhaps Marian Arms as well.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 31 July 2022, 12:26:35
As for why the Hegemony didn't think to build mechs locally is a good question but for the writers they may want it perpetually as a faction of easy to destroy baddies, although at least soon it seems that at least one medium mech will come, we'll see what will bring destiny in equipment production issues
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Coriendal on 31 July 2022, 15:02:01
Barring author fiat, could a newly founded Marian Hegemony, with massive cash reserves from the Germanium, have been able to afford to set up Alphard, colonize local planets and set up the civilian infrastructure to make their nation sustainable?

Once that is done, then attracting a company that has been trashed infrastructure wise, but still has the tech know how seems like a real possibility.  Germanium is a key item in jump ship manufacturing.  Seems like a company setting up shop and building anything from vehicles, to mechs or aerospace fighters would be desirable.  Once they know the government is stable and can defend them they might even be willing to build jump/drop ships or at least the repair and maintenance facilities that would set the MH ahead of where they are.

Many things are the way they are because they weren't thought up until later.  Things like the Firebee, Toro, Hammerhands, DC Gladiator are not in production in 3025 because they didn't want to retro it into the history.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 31 July 2022, 15:11:33
I think the Marians sat on their germanium pile and dollied it out in piecemeal amounts to one, give an idea of Hey we found this while our expansion process is going on. Two, if everyone knew they had it a House would have seized it centuries ago.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 31 July 2022, 19:12:55
Barring author fiat, could a newly founded Marian Hegemony, with massive cash reserves from the Germanium, have been able to afford to set up Alphard, colonize local planets and set up the civilian infrastructure to make their nation sustainable?

Once that is done, then attracting a company that has been trashed infrastructure wise, but still has the tech know how seems like a real possibility.  Germanium is a key item in jump ship manufacturing.  Seems like a company setting up shop and building anything from vehicles, to mechs or aerospace fighters would be desirable.  Once they know the government is stable and can defend them they might even be willing to build jump/drop ships or at least the repair and maintenance facilities that would set the MH ahead of where they are.

Many things are the way they are because they weren't thought up until later.  Things like the Firebee, Toro, Hammerhands, DC Gladiator are not in production in 3025 because they didn't want to retro it into the history.

Let's see the Hegemony could have started better with a little attention from those who write fluff that's clear.
Over time with the Germanium the issue is worse and it is not just what was found in those deposits.
The Hegemony found its own Germanium mines and increased that wealth, the Hegemony currently has mines of that mineral in Alphard, Pompey, Horatius and Algenib, let's say that with such a large production and refinement of it, the Hegemony sold industrial quantities of this mineral to Marik for the construction of its WS fleet, also probably at Capela, that is, income from Germanium increased even more over time

The Hegemony, strangely by the work and design of the authors, have only colonized "officially" during the reign of Marius and as a strategic measure to approach and create a Fortified Base to attack Circinus (I mean Valerius)
I would like nothing more than to colonize more by expanding the Hegemony outwards from the Alphard Province and from the Valerius/Blantleff area

Regarding industrial production there is no way to explain why the Hegemony did not build more things even now in 3145 the Hegemony has access to Fusion Reactors to build some medium and some heavy mechs and several Fighter models butoo, we are still in the waiting to confirm if we make any mech and more fighters

Clearly those old models that you mention would fascinate me to make them or more modern versions, or Talos or the Merlin
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 31 July 2022, 19:16:30
I think the Marians sat on their germanium pile and dollied it out in piecemeal amounts to one, give an idea of Hey we found this while our expansion process is going on. Two, if everyone knew they had it a House would have seized it centuries ago.

TT

It is the most likely thing that will happen, once the Hegemony was established, it began its own mineral exploitations and increased its volume, which makes it even more rare that with its colossal income of money, more was not invested in production for defense.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Metallgewitter on 01 August 2022, 07:08:14
It is the most likely thing that will happen, once the Hegemony was established, it began its own mineral exploitations and increased its volume, which makes it even more rare that with its colossal income of money, more was not invested in production for defense.

Found something in the Masters & Minions book: the ATC on Alphard which was created by Sean O'Reilly was later run by Livia O'Reilly. She sold Germanium in specific amounts in order to make the most profits without flooding the markets and later added mining of other minerals and precious gemstones as well as a defense sector for the day the Germanium finally runs out. Masters & Minions is in the year 3073 or 3074 so the Germanium mines still seem to have ressources left. Though if that is true for the current Dark Age / IlClan era is up to debate
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Coriendal on 01 August 2022, 08:53:35

Clearly those old models that you mention would fascinate me to make them or more modern versions, or Talos or the Merlin.

Adacus, I suggested those models simply because every single one uses the 240 Fusion engine.  That simplifies production as they don't have to set up factories to build 5 different Fusion engines.

The same can be done with a 100 ICE engine, heavy APC's, Scorpion tanks, 15 and 30 ton VTOLs, etc.  Add a 180 ICE engine and you can have a Galleon, Goblin, Pike set up for main force tanks.  You still have the 240 Fusion engine for Manticores if you want.

That production early in the nations history would allow a surprise and massive strike on Niops where technology recovery would give them another thing to sell and benefit from. 

The collapse or failure to thrive of the periphery states is because of the concentration of the line developers on the Succession Wars and Clans over the nice alternate ways people could play the game.  Aurigan Reach, I am looking at you!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 01 August 2022, 12:25:33
Clearly those old models that you mention would fascinate me to make them or more modern versions, or Talos or the Merlin.

Adacus, I suggested those models simply because every single one uses the 240 Fusion engine.  That simplifies production as they don't have to set up factories to build 5 different Fusion engines.

The same can be done with a 100 ICE engine, heavy APC's, Scorpion tanks, 15 and 30 ton VTOLs, etc.  Add a 180 ICE engine and you can have a Galleon, Goblin, Pike set up for main force tanks.  You still have the 240 Fusion engine for Manticores if you want.

That production early in the nations history would allow a surprise and massive strike on Niops where technology recovery would give them another thing to sell and benefit from. 

The collapse or failure to thrive of the periphery states is because of the concentration of the line developers on the Succession Wars and Clans over the nice alternate ways people could play the game.  Aurigan Reach, I am looking at you!


Add a Fusion Reactor plus the Shinobi 260 of the Shilone that we also have since 3074 approximately, based on that reactor we would have to see what can be built, also confirmed smaller reactors such as the Commando or the Locust they have, and more than probably the one that moves the Shreck which I think is Fusion 225
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Coriendal on 02 August 2022, 04:48:34
The Schrek is an 80 ton tank that uses a 240 fusion engine.  Add it to the manticore which also uses a 240 engine.  Other than a 120 fusion engine for a 20 ton light mech or a 25 ton hover tank with 3 ML’s and a srm 4 in a turret you could just stick with the 240 engine.  Add in a 100 and 180 ICE engine and you are done.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 03 August 2022, 11:41:29
The Schrek is an 80 ton tank that uses a 240 fusion engine.  Add it to the manticore which also uses a 240 engine.  Other than a 120 fusion engine for a 20 ton light mech or a 25 ton hover tank with 3 ML’s and a srm 4 in a turret you could just stick with the 240 engine.  Add in a 100 and 180 ICE engine and you are done.

It all depends on the benevolence of the writer who is essential to tell you if a tank fusion reactor is compatible with a mech or an ASF
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Coriendal on 04 August 2022, 12:31:04
"It all depends on the benevolence of the writer."

Or the Admin or company guy who doesn't want to talk about how everyone and their brother could build retro tech factories during the Jihad but there is no way a Periphery power could make plans, redesign an existing factory to upgrade to a bigger or different mech or do anything that would make them more viable.

The real problem is the don't want to change the history but do want to print books with new units in them.

Let's face it, the Toro should just replace the Canon Griffin line as it is cheaper and a Taurian mech.  The Hatchetman line in the first book could easily have been changed to the Talos, about the same weight with an AC 10.

Don't even get started on the fact that the Taurians have two Union lines but no production of the Trojan dropship which is "mistaken" for a union frequently.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 04 August 2022, 15:42:30
"It all depends on the benevolence of the writer."

Or the Admin or company guy who doesn't want to talk about how everyone and their brother could build retro tech factories during the Jihad but there is no way a Periphery power could make plans, redesign an existing factory to upgrade to a bigger or different mech or do anything that would make them more viable.

The real problem is the don't want to change the history but do want to print books with new units in them.

Let's face it, the Toro should just replace the Canon Griffin line as it is cheaper and a Taurian mech.  The Hatchetman line in the first book could easily have been changed to the Talos, about the same weight with an AC 10.

Don't even get started on the fact that the Taurians have two Union lines but no production of the Trojan dropship which is "mistaken" for a union frequently.

I agree with your analysis, curiously the Hegemony is the only power of the Inner Sphere or Periphery that could not modernize a miserable line of the primitive variants of the Jihad, curiously not even Introtech lines like the Fronc Reaches, are those rare things that happen to us us and Taurus to a lesser extent
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: DOC_Agren on 04 August 2022, 21:33:56
"It all depends on the benevolence of the writer."

Or the Admin or company guy who doesn't want to talk about how everyone and their brother could build retro tech factories during the Jihad but there is no way a Periphery power could make plans, redesign an existing factory to upgrade to a bigger or different mech or do anything that would make them more viable.

The real problem is the don't want to change the history but do want to print books with new units in them.

Let's face it, the Toro should just replace the Canon Griffin line as it is cheaper and a Taurian mech.  The Hatchetman line in the first book could easily have been changed to the Talos, about the same weight with an AC 10.

Don't even get started on the fact that the Taurians have two Union lines but no production of the Trojan dropship which is "mistaken" for a union frequently.
I have often assumed, and we all know what means, that the Taurians were also building Trojan at those Union lines, or the hidden line for them, owned by the Far Lookers
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Coriendal on 07 August 2022, 09:09:07
"I have often assumed, and we all know what means, that the Taurians were also building Trojan at those Union lines, or the hidden line for them, owned by the Far Lookers."

But you won't ever see them retcon a book to reflect that.  The Taurians making Leopard's, Union's, Union conventional or ASF carriers, Trojan's and all its varient's is never updated in a later book.  Plus, every major(TC, MoC, OA) nation should have the ability to make a few jump ships each year.  That is how the "Universe" keeps them from being major players.

The Marian's have the best chance to build from the ground up.  Lots of techs, companies and colonists hoping to flee the inner sphere to a "better life".  Lots of Germanium and in the neighboring planets, resources.  Plus, what company getting pummeled during the succession wars wouldn't want a secure factory that could be built to their specifications and well protected.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: truetanker on 07 August 2022, 11:05:55
Because TPTB is ComStar?

And they are no more, it's the writer's fault for us to deliver from ourselves.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 11 August 2022, 02:40:37
I'd say the Thumpers are fine.

Testudos aren't support units, they're main battle tanks with a coaxial demolition gun. The Ultra and the heavy armor are core facets of the unit and if they're not getting used at the same time as the Arrow, then quite frankly it's a waste of resources.
It does make for amusing results when someone sends a scout lance to "Go silence the artillery they've got behind that hill" and they get hammered with UAC fire from your self-guarding guns.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 11 August 2022, 08:30:59
I'd say that's a gross misuse of Testudos, though after thinking about it it's a nice trap to destroy an enemy strike lance, after which you can move the Testudos forward to their proper place at the front line.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: CaptainKlang on 12 August 2022, 11:22:23
Hi everyone, Captain Klang here. The marians are my favorite faction so I'll be hanging out and about in this thread, posting paint jobs and all that kinds of fun stuff. In Hoc Signo Vinces, and all Canopan Soil is rightfully Marian!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 12 August 2022, 11:35:39
Hi everyone, Captain Klang here. The marians are my favorite faction so I'll be hanging out and about in this thread, posting paint jobs and all that kinds of fun stuff. In Hoc Signo Vinces, and all Canopan Soil is rightfully Marian!

Welcome Captain Klang!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 13 August 2022, 02:12:01
Welcome CaptainKlang. Always good to meet another Space-Roman!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Saint on 13 August 2022, 08:42:26
Welcome to the fold!
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 13 August 2022, 09:09:20
Welcome to Nova Roma! Canopus shall die a death befitting hedonist filth
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: CaptainKlang on 15 August 2022, 20:42:39
Thanks Fellas! I haven't gotten around to creating pure Marian forces yet. I mostly began with what I call the IXLD, the Ninth Legion Deserters, a group of mercs that stole a bunch of Battlemechs from a very dumb garrison commander and went around Marian colonies for a few months telling people they needed to confiscate all of their valuables - uh, because the government says so. It took awhile for the authorities to figure out what was going on, but the IXLD managed to steal a shitload of materiel and supplies - including a fair amount of Battlemechs before going pirate. I plan to use them as an OPFOR for IlClan campaigns. Nobody likes pirates! They're getting their first big play in two weeks - one of our Battletech legends is moving to another city(so sad for us but good for him) so I'm GMing a campaign where him and another have to team up and deal with the IXLD - who just found a Star League Cache. We'll see how it goes...
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 13 October 2022, 12:04:35
Another MUL Update, bigger in ASF and Naval Aerospace media, and a few small updates in Mechs and BA, we also got a few more tanks

Mechs

QKD-5M Quickdraw [60] (3050U-I)
SCP-10M Scorpion [55] (3085-PP)
TDR-9T Thunderbolt [65] (3085-PP)

Tanks

Main Gauche (XL) [30] (3067)
Goblin II [45] (3058U-I)
Hetzer (LB-X) [40] (3058U-I)
Manticore (3055 Upgrade) [60] (3058U-I)
Po (LB-X) [60] (3058U-I)
Patton (Ultra) [65] (3058U-I)
Kinnol [70] (3085-CE)
Heavy NLRM Carrier [80] (Proto)
Fortune [80] (3067)
Demolisher (Gauss) [80] (3058U-I)
Partisan (Cell) [80] (3085-ONN)
Alacorn Mk VI [90] (3058U-I)
Ontos (3053 Upgrade) [95] (3058U-I)

BA

Infiltrator Mk. I (3058U-I)
Spectre (3145)
Asterion Medium Battlearmour MRR
Asterion Medium Battlearmour CPP

ASF

S-2 Star Dagger [30] (XTRRetro)
BAM-1A1 Malaika [65] (XTRRetro)
CMT-3T Troika [65] (3067)
DFC-O Defiance* [55] (3067)
TR-13 Transgressor [75] (3039)
F-700a Riever [100] (3039)
F-700b Riever [100] (3039
F-77A Deathstalker [80] (3075

Dropships

Leopard PWS (3075)
Aurora (3075)
Avenger (3048) (3057)
Achilles (3055) (3057)


Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 October 2022, 12:42:54
Well . . . Main Gauche are from Kendall- so check . . . Po (LBX) is just common sense that should have been rolled out after 3050 when the cannon came along.

Asterion BA also makes sense- might be CapCon sourcing, but having arrangements with the Taurians also works since they are not so friendly any more with the Magistry.

Deathstalker ASF also logical with Westover so close and a previously un-aligned world that was sort of at odds with the Rim Commonality.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 13 October 2022, 13:15:37
Is anything known about Marian naval doctrine or preferences? This seems like one area where going "Here's what the Romans did" doesn't seem like the best approach.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 October 2022, 14:26:04
Is anything known about Marian naval doctrine or preferences? This seems like one area where going "Here's what the Romans did" doesn't seem like the best approach.

What??  Ramming has worked so well for the Fed Suns fleet . . .
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 13 October 2022, 14:42:19
The Romans weren't a fan of ramming, mostly because on average their chief opponent (Carthage) had better seafaring crews, and thus were better at it, and also at avoiding it.

Roman naval strategies usually played to their strengths in infantry combat, using grappling and boarding to turn naval engagements into a series of small "land" fights.

The one time ramming worked really well for Rome was at Actium, mostly because it was so unexpected. Rather than face Mark Antony's behemoths head on, Agrippa used large numbers of smaller ships to dart in for quick raking attacks that destroyed the oars on the larger ships. Once they could no longer maneuver, the Antonian octoremes had no choice but to surrender - those that didn't were set aflame from a safe distance.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 October 2022, 14:47:13
Yeah, I was making a galley joke in general at the FedSuns navy expense.

The boarding idea is interesting when you look at the dropships added and those Asterion which would be more useful than IIRC Marauder & Ravager suits.  It would definitely be a factional difference compared to some of the other fleets.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 13 October 2022, 14:48:13
The Romans weren't a fan of ramming, mostly because on average their chief opponent (Carthage) had better seafaring crews, and thus were better at it, and also at avoiding it.

Roman naval strategies usually played to their strengths in infantry combat, using grappling and boarding to turn naval engagements into a series of small "land" fights.

The one time ramming worked really well for Rome was at Actium, mostly because it was so unexpected. Rather than face Mark Antony's behemoths head on, Agrippa used large numbers of smaller ships to dart in for quick raking attacks that destroyed the oars on the larger ships. Once they could no longer maneuver, the Antonian octoremes had no choice but to surrender - those that didn't were set aflame from a safe distance.


The Smaller Ship Tactics is an intensive use of a light ship called Liburna, it had double and even triple rows of oarsmen and an inordinate amount of infantry troops to board, there is a comment in a book that seeing them turn around the heavier ships I remembered Wolves circling around a slow wounded animal

Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 13 October 2022, 15:24:26
Unsurprising, given that the Librarian was a repurposed pirate design. Speed and troop capacity have always been the top two concerns for any pirate ship since the dawn of time. :)

My personal hope for the Marian Navy would be the the MUL issue regarding the DroST series gets cleared up and we get them. I've suddenly got a hankering for a fleet of mostly DroST IIbs and updated Leopards, with an Avenger or Achilles flight to take up Liburnian duties. Lots of firepower, but not so overpowering as to feel out of place in a nation in the Hegemony's level.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 13 October 2022, 15:39:56
Unsurprising, given that the Librarian was a repurposed pirate design. Speed and troop capacity have always been the top two concerns for any pirate ship since the dawn of time. :)

My personal hope for the Marian Navy would be the the MUL issue regarding the DroST series gets cleared up and we get them. I've suddenly got a hankering for a fleet of mostly DroST IIbs and updated Leopards, with an Avenger or Achilles flight to take up Liburnian duties. Lots of firepower, but not so overpowering as to feel out of place in a nation in the Hegemony's level.


At the moment our Navy's Ship with the greatest fire capacity is the Leopard PWS, in the PWS category I think the lightest in weight and perhaps speed, the next in fire capacity I think are Achilles and Avenger both modern and old model and yet they are fast ships, then comes the support of CV ships, Leopard CV and Vengance CV

Apart from that we have Battle Taxi (as boarding shuttles I think), Ares Assault Craft and similar ones like the Condottieri to fulfill tasks of orbit/surface escort or patrol boat system and as a minor assault dropship the Intruder
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 October 2022, 16:03:50
I feel if the DroST II gets back into production, it would be in the Periphery . . . and if the hauler gets built, the gunship would be natural for re-arming in the Dark Age.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 15 October 2022, 05:43:16
Some very useful addition to our roster. Looking forward to try the Scorpion we got- is like a baby Goliath 6H in a way.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 15 October 2022, 10:56:47
That Scorpion is loads of fun. I keep meaning to run one in a FWL lance as a command mech in charge of a trio of upgunned Cicadas.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 20 October 2022, 13:30:38
It is really fun- and fiendishly fast with its lateral movement. Had a blast playing it! :D :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 01 November 2022, 18:47:29
Add Chameleon 8V
Add Demolisher MRM Variant
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 01 November 2022, 19:46:28
The DeMRMisher just SCREAMS Cohors Morituri to me. Perfect for one of those fatal "Hold this narrow pass at all costs" missions.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Starfury on 01 November 2022, 22:20:09
Where are all of these Alacorns coming from? I thought the factory was spiked during the Jihad.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Sartris on 02 November 2022, 00:07:33
NETC built the Mk VI for several decades. there are enough to track in several anti-spinward militaries. how many? enough.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 04 November 2022, 13:02:55
We got the Bulldog ER-Large, too now. Quite a brick, will have to try it soon.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 13 November 2022, 08:58:36
So in the latest Rec Guide, Merlin fluff, Streak LRMs can fire Thunder minefields?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 13 November 2022, 09:41:31
So in the latest Rec Guide, Merlin fluff, Streak LRMs can fire Thunder minefields?

If you mean the part about the First Magistracy Highlanders fighting the VI Legio, the canopians are using the Merlin -1D, that have a regular Holly LRM-5. The model with the Streak LRM-5 is the Merlin C, that apparently is exclusive for the RA.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 13 November 2022, 10:22:08
If SLRMs ever get to for fancy munitions, PLEASE let me know. They've proliferated so much, it'd be great for them to suddenly be useful.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 14 November 2022, 08:54:30
If you mean the part about the First Magistracy Highlanders fighting the VI Legio, the canopians are using the Merlin -1D, that have a regular Holly LRM-5. The model with the Streak LRM-5 is the Merlin C, that apparently is exclusive for the RA.

I got confused reading the whole thing because I thought the superior C version would allow a single lance to wipe an entire Cohors out, but now it seems the veteran VI Legio allowed an entire cohort to get wiped out by a single lance of bog standard Merlins? Is the MHAF that bad?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 14 November 2022, 10:27:48
In this era? Yes.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 14 November 2022, 10:54:24
In this era? Yes.

If it seems that we went down from being The most seasoned and experienced Troops until 3145 to being a gang of ignorant rednecks who trip over their feet and have no idea how to fight

And I will wait for Rec Guide 27 to appear to see if they throw us a few bits of information about the Hegemony other than how clumsy we are
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 14 November 2022, 11:30:25
Is it confirmed that the formation in question was a mech cohort, not an auxilia?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 14 November 2022, 12:02:22
Is it confirmed that the formation in question was a mech cohort, not an auxilia?

Weirdo, being an Auxiliary Cohort in combined close combat of vehicles and infantry, just for statistics, they should lower one of the mechs more if they were ambushing that Lance, it is not very coherent that what it implies is that they did not even sweat to annihilate them
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 14 November 2022, 16:06:43
You didn't say they didn't even break a sweat. Please be complete.

If a cohort is mostly infantry and light IFVs, I could see it as vaguely plausible that a lance of solid generalist heavy mechs could defeat them, though I would also expect it to be a tough fight.

Any other kind of cohort...no.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Gorgon on 14 November 2022, 16:25:50
Just for completion's sake: the Merlin entry says that a lance of MAF Merlins engaged a Manipel of MHAF tanks and (conventional) infantry. From the sound of it, they traded fire with the tanks and opportunistically targeted any infantry suicidal enough to get too close. When the tanks started to retreat, they were hindered by thunder LRMs. That's plausible enough for me.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 14 November 2022, 16:28:06
Finally picked up the RecGuide myself

It was a maniple not a cohort, and confirmed to be a mix of vehicles and infantry. Moreover, nowhere does it say "did not even sweat" or anything remotely like it.

I dislike reading about MHAF defeats as much as any other Marian fan, but this one is perfectly believable.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 November 2022, 17:59:20
Finally picked up the RecGuide myself

It was a maniple not a cohort, and confirmed to be a mix of vehicles and infantry. Moreover, nowhere does it say "did not even sweat" or anything remotely like it.

I dislike reading about MHAF defeats as much as any other Marian fan, but this one is perfectly believable.

And yet, might be interesting to play.  Did it detail what armor?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 14 November 2022, 18:05:19
It did not, sadly.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 15 November 2022, 06:53:56
It says a Maniple of a Cohort was crushed, and they were in ambush positions. As Adacas pointed out, the lance should've lost at least a Mech to the experienced legionaries
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 15 November 2022, 08:49:56
Depends on the vees. If we're talking about Scorpions or APCs, not so much.

We simply do not have the info needed to pass judgement on this.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 15 November 2022, 11:44:13
Yeah, if we were talking Demolishers hidden in woods I would agree with you ARR . . . if we are talking something like Gladius II with a lot of small hits that would have to move to strike because they would have to be out of LOS for a ambush, then no.

Still, might be fun to try- give them a pair of the new Bulldogs supported by Gladius Mk IIs for the rest of the maniple.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 15 November 2022, 13:06:36
Given that the base Marian infantry unit bigger than a squad is a full Century, I feel safe in assuming there would be a maximum of five actual vehicles in that Maniple.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 15 November 2022, 14:05:39
Yeah, for a fun try at the scenario two of the new Bulldogs and fill the 3 other slots with their locally produced Gladius Mk II.  Nothing in those vehicles is going to penetrate the armor in one hit- the ERLL on the Bulldogs is still just 8 after all and the Gladius are full of 5 point hits.  The Gladius would also have limited/decreasing firepower from the RLs . . .

Gives the Marian CO a bit of a catch-22 decision . . . wait for the Bulldog to get more ERLL hits and hope the Gladius Mk II's LAC/5s connect as well, THEN fire the RL15s . . . or go with the alpha to start the ambush and hope you put out enough damage to really weaken the Merlin lance before they can wreck the Bulldogs.  Heck for the scenario I would even give the Bulldogs the advantage of being Hidden Units rather than just sitting in trees, so they get in their shots when they want to w/ less defensive modifiers.

Note, I am not saying those were the tanks involved . . . BUT it is a serious force, just not a big enough threat to a lance of heavies without something that can make big holes for the small plinker weapons to exploit.  It would be a fun scenario to see if you could do 'better' than the sourcebook result.

I think one other question not addressed however would be what were the Marian commander's orders?  Were they ordered to kill enemy units?  Or stall/degrade their performance?  If the orders were to delay the MAF heavy lance for X amount of time so other forces could retreat safely, load a DS, or position for a pitched battle . . . then the MHAF commander achieved a minor strategic victory for their orders.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 15 November 2022, 16:57:54
Yeah, there's a lot we don't know about that fight.

If I were gaming it out, using the tanks you described? I'd pull back and try to lure the mechs into an infantry ambush, then surge forward while they're dealing with that. Don't even need to kill anything, as getting two of the mechs into forced withdrawal would normally be enough to get the whole lance to pull back for the day.

Honestly, given the description of the Merlins' tactics, it's possible that was the plan but the mechs refused to take the bait. And if you've been ordered to hold that pass, there's only so far your can pull back before it stops being a feint and starts being a violation of orders.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 16 November 2022, 09:41:09
Out of all the interesting possibilities for that fight, they went with another total Canopian victory. The run-of-the-mill Dark Age TRO fluff fights have been X wins this round, Y wins the other, but this one is so one-sided.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Saint on 17 November 2022, 09:43:07
It is a little sad that the Rifleman IIC fluff is the closet thing to a upside for the MHAF.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 November 2022, 10:17:46
It is a little sad that the Rifleman IIC fluff is the closet thing to a upside for the MHAF.


I want to see what Fluff gives to Withworth if it's another jerk for the MHAF or something in which they at least win someone
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 November 2022, 16:26:53
Add Flea 21 nd Merlin 1D in Battlemechs, Add Drost II a in Aerospace
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 November 2022, 16:46:09
But no IIb... :'(
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 17 November 2022, 16:47:18
Lol, DRoST . . . well, my suggestion in the MUL thread seems to have happened.  The gunship did not have the same language unfortunately.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 November 2022, 16:59:00
Lol, DRoST . . . well, my suggestion in the MUL thread seems to have happened.  The gunship did not have the same language unfortunately.


From time to time, perhaps as the Drost is so customizable, there may be some IIb but not in an appreciable number to be counted, or perhaps you can start from the IIa to make another local DS of your own
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 17 November 2022, 17:05:00
The reason the Drost dates were adjusted was that the sourcebook entry clearly stated they (or generic knockoffs) were still traveling the trade lanes everywhere to that very day- in 3085.  The gunship did not have that language, thus did not get it's dates changed.  But hey, the MHAF now has a infantry transport w/ some cargo space.  Plus getting a Firefly DroST mini is pretty easy, so a nice add to most games.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 17 November 2022, 17:19:09
The reason the Drost dates were adjusted was that the sourcebook entry clearly stated they (or generic knockoffs) were still traveling the trade lanes everywhere to that very day- in 3085.  The gunship did not have that language, thus did not get it's dates changed.  But hey, the MHAF now has a infantry transport w/ some cargo space.  Plus getting a Firefly DroST mini is pretty easy, so a nice add to most games.


Having an extra common infantry transport never hurts, I wonder if it could be adapted to transport assault troops to another ship
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 17 November 2022, 17:31:24
Well, it carries 2 small craft . . . so yeah, it could be used for rescue, patrol, & customs work if you wanted I guess.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 17 November 2022, 18:08:46
As mentioned, it already carries small craft...which are mandatory if you want to board anything that can expend 1 or more Thrust Points.

The DropShip itself will do just fine for boarding functionally immobile units like JumpShips or stations.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 18 November 2022, 09:33:00
Am pleased with the additions, both useful designs- The Drost/a is a very welcome bonus. I can see it not just hauling around combat troops but also all the support staff that is needed. Got enough cargo for pens and paperclips, too.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 18 November 2022, 10:53:30
Given how much cargo most canon vee/infantry transports carry, if a combined-arms force ever runs out of supplies, it is *never* for lack of carrying space. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 November 2022, 11:26:49
See, I think the Drost is the ideal ship for a 2 dropship long range/term raiding force . . . Union with the mechs, goes in and secures some stretch of highway.  The Drost lands with up to 280 infantry/techs along with 2200+ tons of supplies or room for loading.

Basically your raiding TO&E would be-
1 Company mechs
2 ASF
2 Small Craft
2 company foot infantry (168 men)
1 'company' of techs (84) aside from what is on the Union
HQ/staff platoon (28)

As for how you haul the loot back?  Either seize trucks, pack some in the cargo space, or your mechs have fists w/nets.
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 19 November 2022, 08:14:49
Speaking of Dropships: What do you guys think about the Leopard PWS?
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Adacas on 19 November 2022, 08:36:00
Speaking of Dropships: What do you guys think about the Leopard PWS?

A Beautiful PWS to support large raids or planetary assault, it could also be done with more than one and support from DS Fighters system interdiction forces
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Weirdo on 19 November 2022, 11:16:55
Read the orbital bombardment rules VERY carefully, and calculate the numbers for a unit shooting at the ground while flying at High Altitude 1.  >:D
Title: Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
Post by: Martius on 22 November 2022, 10:50:27
Oh that's nice. Nice indeed.....