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Author Topic: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?  (Read 5223 times)

Agathos

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Re: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?
« Reply #90 on: 27 December 2020, 19:40:54 »
I think the thing that annoys me the most right now is the signs pointing to the resurrection of the Jaguars and Nova Cats.  If factions can't actually die and stay dead, what's even the point in bothering to advance the timeline?

Conversely, is there a point if the faction's death doesn't advance the story? My knowledge of the Dark Age is still pretty spotty so I don't actually know: how did the death of the Nova Cats change history? I know it added some refugees to the Clan Protectorate and it added some new bloodstains to the Combine's hands. If the ilClan declares a vendetta against the Combine, that could actually be a bigger consequence than anything we've seen yet.

Which brings me back to the topic question: the Dark Age plot often frustrates me and anything that finally wraps it up is welcome. The death of the Nova Cats was arbitrary and meaningless, and now Alaric's reaction may actually turn it into a substantial story hook. Maybe a year from now I'll be saying this is even sillier than the Dark Age, but for now I'm waiting to see.

Colt Ward

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Re: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?
« Reply #91 on: 27 December 2020, 22:53:01 »
Conversely, is there a point if the faction's death doesn't advance the story? My knowledge of the Dark Age is still pretty spotty so I don't actually know: how did the death of the Nova Cats change history? I know it added some refugees to the Clan Protectorate and it added some new bloodstains to the Combine's hands. If the ilClan declares a vendetta against the Combine, that could actually be a bigger consequence than anything we've seen yet.

Which brings me back to the topic question: the Dark Age plot often frustrates me and anything that finally wraps it up is welcome. The death of the Nova Cats was arbitrary and meaningless, and now Alaric's reaction may actually turn it into a substantial story hook. Maybe a year from now I'll be saying this is even sillier than the Dark Age, but for now I'm waiting to see.

How was the Nova Cat's death arbitrary?  They chose the wrong side in a dynastic struggle- and those choices have consequences.
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Agathos

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Re: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?
« Reply #92 on: 28 December 2020, 00:02:04 »
How was the Nova Cat's death arbitrary?  They chose the wrong side in a dynastic struggle- and those choices have consequences.

Their poor decision led to a poor outcome, but as someone said in a different thread, that poor decision required that they "not only hold the idiot ball but lick, smell, and then grind it up into a fine dust so they could snort it."

But I guess if you canonically have a reputation for making strategic decisions under the influence of hallucinogens, eventually some writer is going to make you pay for it.

Colt Ward

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Re: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?
« Reply #93 on: 28 December 2020, 00:53:40 »
LSD tripping is the Scorps or Coyotes, the Cats just go catatonic . . .

The Cats had made links to Theodore's legit children with Minoru.  It made all the sense in the world (or BTU) for them to try to take that side.  I will have to get back to this, about to crash.
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GreekFire

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Re: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?
« Reply #94 on: 28 December 2020, 01:55:00 »
I think the issue with the Nova Cat Rebellion is that it didn't have the novel/novella support it needed to really feel fleshed out.

Heretic's Faith laid the groundwork for a future rebellion. The 2nd C-D War, the reservations, the perceived betrayal of the Kuritans in the Cats' time of need--everything was there from the moment the Cats were first fleshed out in the Clickytech game.

As for why they rebelled alongside Tormak...well, this is where a novel really would have helped. There are a ton of loose ends that can be expanded on by a novel. What was written on the documents handed to Khan Nostra by Katana Tormak? Who was assassinating the Clan Mystics? Both, if taken together, could give the Cats plenty reason to follow Tormak against the Kuritan throne.

Then there's the conclusion of that story arc. The Cats are destroyed, nothing remains. But there are enough questions left in the air for a follow-up novel to also have great potential. What happened to Kisho and his fellow survivors? Why has he remained hidden for so long? And how could the Order of the Five Pillars leverage his survival to their mutual advantage?

Basically, what I'm saying is that though the Rebellion seems a bit lacking in detail, a novel or two could easily change that.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?
« Reply #95 on: 28 December 2020, 05:09:00 »
I think the issue with the Nova Cat Rebellion is that it didn't have the novel/novella support it needed to really feel fleshed out.

Heretic's Faith laid the groundwork for a future rebellion. The 2nd C-D War, the reservations, the perceived betrayal of the Kuritans in the Cats' time of need--everything was there from the moment the Cats were first fleshed out in the Clickytech game.

As for why they rebelled alongside Tormak...well, this is where a novel really would have helped. There are a ton of loose ends that can be expanded on by a novel. What was written on the documents handed to Khan Nostra by Katana Tormak? Who was assassinating the Clan Mystics? Both, if taken together, could give the Cats plenty reason to follow Tormak against the Kuritan throne.

Then there's the conclusion of that story arc. The Cats are destroyed, nothing remains. But there are enough questions left in the air for a follow-up novel to also have great potential. What happened to Kisho and his fellow survivors? Why has he remained hidden for so long? And how could the Order of the Five Pillars leverage his survival to their mutual advantage?

Basically, what I'm saying is that though the Rebellion seems a bit lacking in detail, a novel or two could easily change that.

problem is, it's a patch-and-paste job if it ever happens, and it kinda requires the Combine to ALSO drink deeply of the stupid juice while holding the idiot ball, and not in a classical kurosawa villain fashion.

but then, a LOT of the Dark Age material requires a LOT of people (who aren't Devlin Stone) to be doing the same thing, so I guess in a way it's consistent going all the way back to the immediate post-Jihad and moving forward.  MOST of the former Successor States have to be essentially operating without forebrain, just to account for the things they did leading off of that.  (or more specifically, the things they did NOT do, the treaties they actually followed, the capabilities they outright abandoned, letting Comstar back in...)

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Colt Ward

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Re: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?
« Reply #96 on: 28 December 2020, 08:46:41 »
Basically, what I'm saying is that though the Rebellion seems a bit lacking in detail, a novel or two could easily change that.

You are also forgetting that the Cats had Vincent's last surviving heir and had co-opted Minoru's genetics- all part of the Dynastic struggle they jumped into at the time.  The reasons you list are the 'why' but the Kurita heir is the 'how' for their involvement.
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Mecha82

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Re: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?
« Reply #97 on: 29 December 2020, 12:19:46 »
I had funny idea. What if Clan Ghost Bear appeared when both Wolves and Falcons have battered each other to pulp to take price before both side's noses. I know it won't happen but it would be very Bear move to wait for right opportunity to strike.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?
« Reply #98 on: 29 December 2020, 12:25:48 »
Could . . . except the Bears' Khan showed little interest when she was talking with Alaric.
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HABeas2

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Re: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?
« Reply #99 on: 29 December 2020, 13:49:16 »
I think the thing that annoys me the most right now is the signs pointing to the resurrection of the Jaguars and Nova Cats.  If factions can't actually die and stay dead, what's even the point in bothering to advance the timeline?

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HuronWarrior

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Re: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?
« Reply #100 on: 29 December 2020, 13:57:42 »
I think the thing that annoys me the most right now is the signs pointing to the resurrection of the Jaguars and Nova Cats.  If factions can't actually die and stay dead, what's even the point in bothering to advance the timeline?
If anything, more should die. Including prominent factions, where applicable. Either the Wolves or Falcons buying the farm would raise stakes rather nicely.

Maingunnery

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Re: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?
« Reply #101 on: 29 December 2020, 13:59:06 »
You and I both....

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Mecha82

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Re: Anyone else NOT looking forward to the ilClan?
« Reply #102 on: 29 December 2020, 14:00:14 »
Could . . . except the Bears' Khan showed little interest when she was talking with Alaric.

Sure. Based on what I know about Khan Bekker I would say that she would never lie to another clanner. Not even by accident. Then again clanners aren't know from lying and they tend to be very honest.
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