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Author Topic: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?  (Read 1946 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #30 on: 22 November 2021, 14:09:17 »
To the OP-  The League was actually in a good position, Jessika was the Captain General and had 4 children remaining, though only 2 were really available.  Nikol was the designated heir.

Where Jessika fails is not setting up Nikol- Elise is the only child with a political marriage . . . and the funny thing?  She & hubby got working on making an heir quickly.  Julia was used as political marriage bait- not sure her personality would have gone for it, her mother trolled her out quite a bit.

But Jessika died, and Nikol never tied the knot.

As for the others . . .

Well, Harrison failed in so many ways, this one just adds to the list.  He should have re-married for heirs- especially when Caleb was disqualified.  Adopting Julian as his heir is fine, BUT the Succession should have been clearly marked out.

-more later-
« Last Edit: 22 November 2021, 14:39:30 by Colt Ward »
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #31 on: 22 November 2021, 14:30:10 »
Most modern writers aren't feudal nobility either, but those in the genre can churn out pretty good political intrigue. I'm following quite a number of otome isekai titles and most of them by default have it to varying extents, but definitely more so than Btech in general.

The best stories are often those where the protagonists are constantly struggling with love and duty pulling them in different directions.

A good one I'm following now is The Villainess Lives Twice, a manhwa Just enough intrigue mixed with the fluffy waffy stuff. Satisfying fare.
True enough, what I had in my head but didn’t do a good enough job of explaining is that I think it’s a genre thing.  Folks who tend to write in a feudal setting do feudal just fine, but might get thrown off if you said “oh by the way, throw in some lasers.”  Likewise, BT is primarily a sci-fi setting, and I would figure that sci-fi writers, as a rule, aren’t usually writing feudal societies.  Exceptions exit, of course, Dune was mentioned above and it’s a good example.  But in general, I wouldn’t expect a sci-fi writer to write the perspective of feudal nobility as reflexively as someone who writes in a feudal setting most of the time (and I wouldn’t expect that person to write space battles as naturally as the sci-fi writer).
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garhkal

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #32 on: 22 November 2021, 15:02:15 »
Anyone else finds it odd that no one is doing their duty?


Maybe they don't see it as a "Duty", that they HAVE To marry.

Maybe it's like RL, where folks in the service, often have their spouses, harange them, constantly ABOUT BEING IN, and they don't want to put up with that henpecking..

Maybe its a social thing, where if they DID have a So/kid, it would open them up to more attacks, AGAINST their family?

because at historically lots of civil wars come from younger siblings or children scheming to displace the current monarch.

Especially if there is a mix of legitimate kids, and illigitmate kids!

Contraception.

Think about it, the political reality would have these rulers learning about contraception before they've hit puberty just in order to avoid the complications of a bastard pretender with a borrowed ladder.

And since IRL, you can get "Snipped" (For the guys at least), and if you ever DO want kids, you CAN get it reversed, perhaps that happens to ALL those in power, while they are of 'serving' age, then they get it reversed once they retire??
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Colt Ward

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #33 on: 22 November 2021, 16:09:10 »
Back in w/ the one comment before I actually write more . . .

 . . . based on his socialization in Sword of Sedition (Whose daughter?  noble?  socialite?  CEO?  no matter), partying since at least college, and his security's adjusted posture . . . Caleb should have at least a handful of kids out in the world.  With his attitude, never knowing or caring would be believable.
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Sartris

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #34 on: 22 November 2021, 16:55:42 »
too much minecraft no time for dating

five_corparty

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #35 on: 22 November 2021, 17:38:17 »
Not going to lie, this has always bugged me, which is why I give people dependents any chance I reasonably can.  Soldiers like to fight, eat, sleep, drink, and screw, and not always in that order  ;) ;D ;D

IMHO, kids, like garlic, should be added to stories liberally and often.  :)

Colt Ward

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #36 on: 22 November 2021, 17:51:54 »
I THINK . . . drink, screw, sleep and eat is the established order.
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CJC070

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #37 on: 22 November 2021, 19:11:02 »
I'd love to hear from the writers as to how this played out. If this is actual plot design, or some kind of "opps, no one thought of that in our meetings."

Even if it's the latter I'd just find it amusing to learn that. As there is plenty of time and opportunity to resolve the issue.

With so many balls flying around right now this could be an error or since many of them were preceded by cousins the writers are establishing a new method of determining who is next.  I will be interested how they solve it.  I can see Julian Davion having a shotgun wedding near or on the battlefield though.

The Wobbly Guy

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #38 on: 22 November 2021, 19:19:42 »
I can see Julian Davion having a shotgun wedding near or on the battlefield though.

Maybe it's Danai or Yori holding the shotgun. :P

Lord Harlock

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #39 on: 22 November 2021, 20:34:36 »
Back in w/ the one comment before I actually write more . . .

 . . . based on his socialization in Sword of Sedition (Whose daughter?  noble?  socialite?  CEO?  no matter), partying since at least college, and his security's adjusted posture . . . Caleb should have at least a handful of kids out in the world.  With his attitude, never knowing or caring would be believable.

Just what the Suns needs is pretenders to the throne, but considering lore, the Suns can just claim that the kids were actually from some random Sandoval if a male pretender shows up or an unknown Hasek cousin.

For once the Davion-Sandovals for once did something right since if Caleb had been even a Steiner-Davion rather than a candidate based off that line, he would have had a Davion Y-chromosome from at least Robert Davion before the Federated Suns, and it would have been easier for a male pretender to claim to be Caleb the Wacky's Bastard.

Then again, there is always that Caleb's good 'friend' Mason just threw the concubines off of roofs as well.

Oh well, the only thing that I can say about the lack of issue of the rulers of the Houses is that none of them are Lester Cameron-Jones who had a wife and just couldn't do the deed due to his own psychological issues. But that is cover for a more embarrassing problem known as being a never-nude which by the 32nd Century had grown to literally thousands. But then again, I still have no idea what the point of Ilsa "Best Rita Repulsa Cosplayer 3110 and on" Centrella-Liao's marriage to Ari Humpreies was for.

Honestly, I think a lot of the issues revolve around the fact that the the timeline didn't move for awhile after To Ride the Chimera, and once the story started to move again beyond the soucebooks, the writers were just trying to reestablish characters, and the writers thought it wouldn't work to suddenly have kids.

Personally, I think that at the least since we hadn't seen Nikol Marik for awhile before her cameo in Hour of the Wolf that it would have been a great idea to pair her off, and let her have a kid who has the father's eyes. And that father would be Gavin "Marik".

Why do I have a thing for one note characters?

Anyhow, Julian Davion probably being on extended tour through the Republic and Commonwealth fighting with the 1st Davion Guards didn't think about one night stands like Caleb. He is that kind of hero archtype. And probably every Suns official would be happier if he did have a bastard child who could be recognized as his heir just to have some sort of succession as oppose to go through the list to find the next Davion cousin on the succession list.

To be fair if Trillian Steiner-Davion was younger and didn't look like current Cameron Diaz, it'd be a good match to bringing back Hanse back into the blood line unless Nessa Davion is younger. Yeah, let's get Julian to marry a Victor granddaughter or great-granddaughter that will get Hanse back into the bloodline, and I am sure that Gavin would want his cousin and or sister to marry back into the Principality. Honestly, Gavin needs to be doing something.

Maybe it's Danai or Yori holding the shotgun. :P

Please no. I hate the Confederate Suns or just the Draconis Combine taking over New Avalon forever after. And besides, we all know that there is only one gal that would have a shotgun wedding with Julian Davion, and that's Callandre "Calamity" Kell. Honestly if she was younger, I'd be all for Kell-Davions because I wouldn't put it pass the writers to screw over Julian by saying that any potential mate over age 40 would never deliver an heir for him. And that would doom the Suns most likely.

However the image of a kind of fun loving Callandre Kell being Princess of the Federated Suns does have a certain appeal.

And she is better than Danai "Old Kentucky" Centrella-Liao and Coordinator Yori the Virgin Kurita.

five_corparty

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #40 on: 22 November 2021, 21:08:40 »
Honestly, I think a lot of the issues revolve around the fact that the the timeline didn't move for awhile after To Ride the Chimera, and once the story started to move again beyond the soucebooks, the writers were just trying to reestablish characters, and the writers thought it wouldn't work to suddenly have kids.

Concur, this right here is pretty much my best guess, too.  TPTB had to play the cards they were dealt when Wizkids established the DAge, and suddenly having an "oops: all kids!" novel wouldn't quite work.  I 100% have faith that, within the next few real life & fiction years, we're gonna see some weddin's & dismounts.  :) :D




However the image of a kind of fun loving Callandre Kell being Princess of the Federated Suns does have a certain appeal.


this is an AWESOME idea and now -I- hope it happens, too!  :)

glitterboy2098

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #41 on: 22 November 2021, 21:11:01 »
perhaps marry Julian off to Callandre, but then eventually reveal that Danai had a kid by Caleb, who she foisted off to a foster family under a false identity because the kid is politically useful but she doesn't want the reminder of that experience. set up a potential storyline where said kid 20-30 years later makes a play for the fedsuns and/or capcon throne.

Lord Harlock

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #42 on: 22 November 2021, 23:18:45 »

this is an AWESOME idea and now -I- hope it happens, too!  :)

And to add more fire to the Callandre and Julian ship, "Ugh", there is a period between the end of Bonfire of Worlds in July of 3143 and when Julian left Callandre to take the throne of the Federated Suns in October 3144 for them to have had an moment to create an out of wedlock Kell-Davion or possible a set of multiplies if the romance rekindled. And it isn't like intelligence or communication is exactly the greatest at the moment, so if Callandre had a pregnancy due to a liaison with Julian before he left, it's kind of easy to bring it in as a surprise later. Plus, Phantom Mech Davions, eh?

perhaps marry Julian off to Callandre, but then eventually reveal that Danai had a kid by Caleb, who she foisted off to a foster family under a false identity because the kid is politically useful but she doesn't want the reminder of that experience. set up a potential storyline where said kid 20-30 years later makes a play for the fedsuns and/or capcon throne.

I don't think that Danai could cover up a pregnancy from Daoshen or the MASK, and there isn't a lot of wiggly room with Principles of Desolation for such an event. And somehow, I doubt that Daoshen would appreciate having a Sandoval grandchild with Davion and Steiner genes even if he could make a play for New Avalon and Thakard with said child. I'd really feel sorry for that kid since Daoshen either would torture the kid to purge the Davion, Hasek, and Sandoval out and it's not like Danai has probably taken care of such a kid either due to the conception. And if she kept the kid out of sight of Daoshen and MASK, that would mean that the kid would have been raised somewhere in . . . Canopus. Yeah, that kid has so many strikes already, and I haven't gotten to a comment about Caleb yet.

So yeah, the best that the character would get probably is somehow beyond possibilities inheriting Mason from daddy and that would be a mercy somehow.   

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #43 on: 22 November 2021, 23:53:19 »
perhaps marry Julian off to Callandre, but then eventually reveal that Danai had a kid by Caleb, who she foisted off to a foster family under a false identity because the kid is politically useful but she doesn't want the reminder of that experience. set up a potential storyline where said kid 20-30 years later makes a play for the fedsuns and/or capcon throne.

The sooner we can leave that plot thread in the dust to never be thought of again, the better.
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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #44 on: 23 November 2021, 01:07:37 »
To be fair if Trillian Steiner-Davion was younger and didn't look like current Cameron Diaz, it'd be a good match to bringing back Hanse back into the blood line unless Nessa Davion is younger. Yeah, let's get Julian to marry a Victor granddaughter or great-granddaughter that will get Hanse back into the bloodline, and I am sure that Gavin would want his cousin and or sister to marry back into the Principality. Honestly, Gavin needs to be doing something.
Kitsune has kids and/or grandkids, right?  That route might even throw a spanner into Kurita's works while he's at it.


And to add more fire to the Callandre and Julian ship, "Ugh", there is a period between the end of Bonfire of Worlds in July of 3143 and when Julian left Callandre to take the throne of the Federated Suns in October 3144 for them to have had an moment to create an out of wedlock Kell-Davion or possible a set of multiplies if the romance rekindled. And it isn't like intelligence or communication is exactly the greatest at the moment, so if Callandre had a pregnancy due to a liaison with Julian before he left, it's kind of easy to bring it in as a surprise later. Plus, Phantom Mech Davions, eh?
Callandre's dad was a twin, so it may well run in the family. I'd like that angle better than bringing the Steiner-Davions back in, tbh.  But it's probably more difficult to make work.  The logistics of the First Prince being married to the Grand Duchess of Arc Royal just don't really work, and an on-again-off-again relationship that produces illegitimate children is...while better than nothing, barely better than no heirs, where the succession is concerned.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #45 on: 23 November 2021, 01:32:19 »
Except Julian's response to a relationship with Calamity was . . . 'Hell no, not ever trying again.'

Bonfire ends is '43 and deals with Melissa (dud), Trillian (oops, I rule?) who is not actually guilty at this point ('48? yes), Julian (in exile) who would just get more crap if he popped a kid, and peripherally Jessika & Caleb.  So, while not central to the story and aside from Melissa having a kid comment in Bonfire would have been ok . . . especially since we got ER/FM3145 with bios, the perfect place to put that info since we are getting updated on each realm.

Like I said, I expect Caleb has bastards since when we see him partying he cannot even remember his partner and tends to maintain a state of Charlie Sheen level intoxication.

Jessika has been scheming, but the authors around Bonfire not dropping a marriage for Nikol is a crime.
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VhenRa

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #46 on: 23 November 2021, 01:37:19 »
Kitsune has kids and/or grandkids, right?  That route might even throw a spanner into Kurita's works while he's at it.

We know he has kids [reasonably young ones] as of not long after the Blackout.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #47 on: 23 November 2021, 02:57:37 »
Just a little offtopic question: are any Allard-Liaos still alive? I mean Kai's children are dead and afaik they didn't have children. Cassandra had at least oen child but it is probably forgotten (not sure if her mercenary unit is even active).
Did Kuan-Yin or Quentin have any children? I mean they COULD be a possible contender for the Capellan Confederation. After all they descend from the main line (though I am not sure if they abrogated their right / were disinherited to the throne)

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #48 on: 23 November 2021, 10:36:39 »
Except Julian's response to a relationship with Calamity was . . . 'Hell no, not ever trying again.'
In 3134, yes.  But they're both vastly more mature people by 3151.  You can reconsider a lot of things between 27 and 44.
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Lord Harlock

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #49 on: 23 November 2021, 11:48:10 »
Just a little offtopic question: are any Allard-Liaos still alive? I mean Kai's children are dead and afaik they didn't have children. Cassandra had at least oen child but it is probably forgotten (not sure if her mercenary unit is even active).
Did Kuan-Yin or Quentin have any children? I mean they COULD be a possible contender for the Capellan Confederation. After all they descend from the main line (though I am not sure if they abrogated their right / were disinherited to the throne)

It would be nice to know anything about Quentin Allard-Liao.

In 3134, yes.  But they're both vastly more mature people by 3151.  You can reconsider a lot of things between 27 and 44.

Let’s face it 3143 was tough on both Callandre and Julian, and from what we know they spent a lot of time together between July 3143 and October 3144. Frustration and fighting the Falcons can lead to things, and it is possible for love to rekindle on the battlefield.

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #50 on: 23 November 2021, 14:47:54 »
To the OP-  The League was actually in a good position, Jessika was the Captain General and had 4 children remaining, though only 2 were really available.  Nikol was the designated heir.

Where Jessika fails is not setting up Nikol- Elise is the only child with a political marriage . . . and the funny thing?  She & hubby got working on making an heir quickly.  Julia was used as political marriage bait- not sure her personality would have gone for it, her mother trolled her out quite a bit.

But Jessika died, and Nikol never tied the knot.

As for the others . . .

Well, Harrison failed in so many ways, this one just adds to the list.  He should have re-married for heirs- especially when Caleb was disqualified.  Adopting Julian as his heir is fine, BUT the Succession should have been clearly marked out.

-more later-

Noted. I didn't really looked at the FWL family so much when I checked this. So Nikol has a pass, but not the other rulers.

And about Harrison, from what I readed, the mistake he made was to tell his insane son that he was going to be passed over for Julian before making it a fact. But I see they tried to pull a "Gladiator" Commodus kills Marcus Aurelius. If Julian doesn't marry or produce an heir soon, let's see what new Davion the writers invent to fill the gap.

Someone talked about what would Alaric do with the succession, and I am intrigued too, but is he one to be planning for that future, or is he more a "me" type of guy? (don't know anything about his personality).

Metallgewitter

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #51 on: 24 November 2021, 03:28:13 »
Noted. I didn't really looked at the FWL family so much when I checked this. So Nikol has a pass, but not the other rulers.

And about Harrison, from what I readed, the mistake he made was to tell his insane son that he was going to be passed over for Julian before making it a fact. But I see they tried to pull a "Gladiator" Commodus kills Marcus Aurelius. If Julian doesn't marry or produce an heir soon, let's see what new Davion the writers invent to fill the gap.

Someone talked about what would Alaric do with the succession, and I am intrigued too, but is he one to be planning for that future, or is he more a "me" type of guy? (don't know anything about his personality).

Who knows maybe Eric Sandoval will take over the Suns should something happen to Julian. Most Houses have examples of a Non-ruling family member sit on the throne. Though Eric is roughly the same age as Julian and so far he hasn't married yet

Elmoth

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #52 on: 24 November 2021, 03:48:15 »
Because the 40s are the new 20s.

I hope a lot of them have bastards or frozen sperm/ovums.

Sartris

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #53 on: 24 November 2021, 09:59:49 »
Louis XIII waited until dangerously late in life and that turned out ok-ish

Now they just have to hope a closet of Richelieus is out there somewhere…

Moragion

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #54 on: 25 November 2021, 15:42:16 »
Louis XIII waited until dangerously late in life and that turned out ok-ish

Now they just have to hope a closet of Richelieus is out there somewhere…

Well, there is strong evidence that he was homosexual, so it took him that long to make the sacrifice to produce children. That's another matter entirely, but could be that some of those inner sphere rulers are interested in their own gender. Not sure if there has been that case (I thing I remember something from one of the old House books, not sure which one, about one of the rulers being gay and that being something of an scandal, but well, it was on the 80s, so things have changed a lot).

Back into the topic, who do you think is the most probable ruler to get married first, if any does? I would vote for Nikol, specifically if she makes a political match to one of the families of one province, to strengthen the new League even more.


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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #55 on: 25 November 2021, 16:08:50 »
Nikol or Julian, I think.
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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #56 on: 25 November 2021, 18:01:02 »
The Free Worlds League is the next in line to get a sourcebook. So that would be one place reveal her marriage.
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Hotham

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #57 on: 26 November 2021, 00:12:39 »
There is a specific passage in Blood Will Till where Danai has this exact conversation in her head, but It boiled down to, "It's the future and we have amazing technology, so even though I'm in my forties, I'm still young."
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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #58 on: 26 November 2021, 02:16:27 »
With the Foxs around and the Cats for the FWL, I wonder if either clan will sell access to an Iron Womb to a IS leader? Clan khajiit have Heirs, if you have coin?
hmmm is there a Kurita bloodline in the Cats still?
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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #59 on: 26 November 2021, 03:58:51 »
There is a specific passage in Blood Will Till where Danai has this exact conversation in her head, but It boiled down to, "It's the future and we have amazing technology, so even though I'm in my forties, I'm still young."

Well, IRL, we have guys in their 60’s and 70’s and women in at least their late 40’s and even in their 50’s still conceiving children, and that’s without 1000 additional years of medical advancements.

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