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Author Topic: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?  (Read 11812 times)

Templar87

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #150 on: 22 July 2022, 10:47:12 »

I think a Yori / Julian couple might work as Yori seems to respect Julian for his believes and devotion (though the ongoing war will never make that possible).


That may be how Yori might feel, although as far as I'm aware we've never had her POV on the subject, but it certainly isn't how Julian is going to feel; even before we get into history like the War of Takiro's Fraud that means he rightly will have no interest in even considering any such thing.


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Danai on the other hand...Yikes. Though I think Julian will most likely end with this one girl that Amanada Hasek tried to set him up with. In a way it might look like the marriage of Adam Steiner who married a noble he somewhat liked though his real love was Rachel Spector (or in Julian's case Callandre) Then again Callandre isn't exactly a stabilizing influence to say the least and who in the Suns would accept a Lyran queen (or whatever she would be called) again after the decades of the FedCom?


That would be Sandra Fenlon, and while Amanda Hasek's playing matchmaker never worked, it was mostly because Julian and Sandra essentially grew up together, and viewed each other far more as friends and partners than anything romantic; but that's a good enough basis for a state marriage (however, well, that assumes Sandra's still alive, and with the Capellan invasion of Chesterton, that's pretty dubious). Callandre, Julian's never come off as romantically interested in her, nor her in him, to me; friends, unshakeable battle companions and the biggest troublemaking partnership in the Nagelring's history, yes, but not romance.

Wasn't Callandre the one who broke up with Julian?  And made it clear that she wasn't interested in getting back with him?


Their break-up at the Nagelring was mutual recognising they just weren't going to work for romance, AFAIA.


Julian clearly stated in the fiction views Callandre as a very close friend, Callandre acknowledges with some agreement but not as clear/vocal as he is on the status.  But I think her muttering his name when she woke was more about hoping he was riding to her rescue at the time.  The HPGs are down, WE know stuff but has she even heard he went back to the FedSuns to become First Prince?  Remember, she was hopping around on a Kell Hound Reunion Revenge Tour through the Falcon OZ for quite a bit.


Julian was with her for quite a bit of that; he rejoined the First Davion Guards to start heading back to the Federated Suns c. 22 October 3144, while Callandre had been going on her rampage from 1 November 3143, per FM 3145.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #151 on: 22 July 2022, 11:06:18 »
She was still doing that going into Shattered Fortress before withdrawing in  . . . '48? '49? to the secret RP when Arc Royal fell.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #152 on: 22 July 2022, 12:53:31 »
She was still doing that going into Shattered Fortress before withdrawing in  . . . '48? '49? to the secret RP when Arc Royal fell.

And well as we now know from Tamar Rising

when Callandre got some reinforcemnts she was told her "soulmate" had come back to her and she thought it was "Jules" (in essence Julian) but in reality it was her ex husband saying he came back to her and he even brought the rings

Lord Harlock

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #153 on: 25 July 2022, 17:40:34 »
And well as we now know from Tamar Rising

when Callandre got some reinforcemnts she was told her "soulmate" had come back to her and she thought it was "Jules" (in essence Julian) but in reality it was her ex husband saying he came back to her and he even brought the rings

Poor girl got her hopes up. Callandre wanted her knight Julian, and she got the guy she drank too many PPCs with that one time instead.

« Last Edit: 26 July 2022, 12:50:00 by Lord Harlock »

five_corparty

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #154 on: 07 August 2022, 22:32:06 »
Poor girl got her hopes up. Callandre wanted her knight Julian, and she got the guy she drank too many PPCs with that one time instead.

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Croix129

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #155 on: 08 August 2022, 19:27:03 »
Just a thought. but Empire Alone might have given us an idea of how the whole "lack of heirs" thing is going to be handled. In Empire Alone we are introduced to two new members of the Centrella family; Erde Centrella's daughter Serin Centrella and granddaughter Isolde Centrella. While it had been previously mentioned that Erde had two children, no information was known about either until now. And we certainly didn't know about Isolde period.. So I think heirs will be introduced as needed, with some kind of reason created as to why they hadn't been mentioned prior (ie raised in hiding, kept out of the limelight, ex ex). It isn't the best solution, but it does work. I think this is more likely sense, if the writers were planning for a succession problem, then one of the sourcebooks/novels would have had a line mentioning something like "you know, so and so is really getting up there and hasn't married or had an heir. Should we be concerned about the succession?". Unless or until some kind of concerns are made in-universe, I have to assume there's plans for the successions.

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #156 on: 08 August 2022, 19:50:31 »
Melissa had no heirs or prospects, got deposed, re-instated, and STILL produced no heirs

Only 2 realms have had secrecy about the ruling families- Kuritas and Centrellas, and the later was open about Danai inheriting from her 'sister.'
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BrianDavion

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #157 on: 09 August 2022, 00:10:10 »
I could see Julian having a wedding shortly after the victory on new avalon as a way to turn the reconquest into a real celebration.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #158 on: 09 August 2022, 01:35:09 »
Melissa had no heirs or prospects, got deposed, re-instated, and STILL produced no heirs

Only 2 realms have had secrecy about the ruling families- Kuritas and Centrellas, and the later was open about Danai inheriting from her 'sister.'

Melissa couldn't really produce an heir after reinstatement as she was killed shortly afterwards. Should have done that years prior. 

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #159 on: 09 August 2022, 09:01:25 »
She still could have taken steps, even the announcement of a political marriage to shore up her support among the Estates General and the social generals.  But aside from slapping down the Duke of Gienah (who became a bloodsplatter anyway) and setting up Vedet Brewster to fail, she did little interaction with the nobility of the Commonwealth.
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Caesar Steiner for Archon

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #160 on: 10 August 2022, 23:21:13 »
Can't believe Melissa II's actions were short-sighted, ill-advised or both.


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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #161 on: 10 August 2022, 23:51:15 »
Yeah, that was so out of character for her.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #162 on: 11 August 2022, 09:08:49 »
Can't believe Melissa II's actions were short-sighted, ill-advised or both.

By all accounts she was fine as a ruler before Gray Monday.  The question is was she able to adapt to the change- and some people cannot actually grasp such a paradigm shift.  I think her attempting to leverage a hold on ComStar was an indication she could not change her through processes.

But most of my comment was that the writing paid little attention to the nobility/Estates General which have a bigger political impact in the Lyran state than other Houses.
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Caesar Steiner for Archon

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #163 on: 11 August 2022, 14:46:33 »
It's easy to be an adequate head of state when you have few problems to deal with, but both she and Andrew sure tried (by antagonizing the Commonwealth's only moderately friendly neighbor). When she actually hit real problems she ran the ship of state straight into the ground. She was a bad ruler the whole time but never really had a chance to show it.


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Metallgewitter

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #164 on: 12 August 2022, 12:57:29 »
To be fair the rearmament of the LCAF wasn't a bad idea given how the entire IS collapsed into chaos. Unfortunately they never rectified one of their glaring problems: only one yard to produce Jumpships. And of course (esepcially Melissa) trying to rule a nation like a busines at least that's my impression of Melissa.I somehow get the feeling that the Commonwealth might repeat their history of the Jihad: a Steiner-Davion at the helm who later dies and is replaced by the Marshal of the Armies in this case Roderick Steiner

Cannonshop

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #165 on: 12 August 2022, 19:47:48 »
She still could have taken steps, even the announcement of a political marriage to shore up her support among the Estates General and the social generals.  But aside from slapping down the Duke of Gienah (who became a bloodsplatter anyway) and setting up Vedet Brewster to fail, she did little interaction with the nobility of the Commonwealth.

Like many autocrats, she never conceived of a need to have an heir, (Until it was too late) because she didn't have the imagination to think she'd ever NEED one.

It's easy to be an adequate head of state when you have few problems to deal with, but both she and Andrew sure tried (by antagonizing the Commonwealth's only moderately friendly neighbor). When she actually hit real problems she ran the ship of state straight into the ground. She was a bad ruler the whole time but never really had a chance to show it.

"moderately Friendly'??  are you sure about that??  Andrew's cause of death is pretty exceptional really-he wasn't old, or infirm, and Tharkad isn't stuck in the 1920s medically, but the man died of something that is treated with a stomach-pump and large doses of gatorade.

While being head of state of a major nation, not an unemployed factory worker with a meth habit.

That suggests the "Food poisoning" is covering for something a bit 'else'...actually a LOT else, since apparently it wasn't a public health issue and didn't hit large numbers of street-fair-goers, just him.

Even going off the fluffy, gushing, pro-Stone crap that's public knowledge to the playerbase, those treaties weren't beneficial, that relationship was predatory with the Republic being the predator.

Andrew was probably assassinated, with the collaboration of those nobles people are talking about and likely eager collaboration within the Lyran government itself.  Either that, or their medical schools are as ineffective at turning out medical doctors, as their Academies are at turning out effective officers.
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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #166 on: 12 August 2022, 19:49:10 »
To be fair the rearmament of the LCAF wasn't a bad idea given how the entire IS collapsed into chaos. Unfortunately they never rectified one of their glaring problems: only one yard to produce Jumpships. And of course (esepcially Melissa) trying to rule a nation like a busines at least that's my impression of Melissa.I somehow get the feeling that the Commonwealth might repeat their history of the Jihad: a Steiner-Davion at the helm who later dies and is replaced by the Marshal of the Armies in this case Roderick Steiner

I tend to agree, Roderick is going to replace trillian


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Like many autocrats, she never conceived of a need to have an heir, (Until it was too late) because she didn't have the imagination to think she'd ever NEED one.

except that te autocrats in that case tend to be dictators. MONARCHS universally understand the need for an heir

Caesar Steiner for Archon

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #167 on: 13 August 2022, 21:10:16 »
"moderately Friendly'??  are you sure about that??  Andrew's cause of death is pretty exceptional really-he wasn't old, or infirm, and Tharkad isn't stuck in the 1920s medically, but the man died of something that is treated with a stomach-pump and large doses of gatorade.

While being head of state of a major nation, not an unemployed factory worker with a meth habit.

That suggests the "Food poisoning" is covering for something a bit 'else'...actually a LOT else, since apparently it wasn't a public health issue and didn't hit large numbers of street-fair-goers, just him.

Even going off the fluffy, gushing, pro-Stone crap that's public knowledge to the playerbase, those treaties weren't beneficial, that relationship was predatory with the Republic being the predator.

Andrew was probably assassinated, with the collaboration of those nobles people are talking about and likely eager collaboration within the Lyran government itself.  Either that, or their medical schools are as ineffective at turning out medical doctors, as their Academies are at turning out effective officers.

Even if you're correct, Andrew was out to start shit with his only neighbor NOT likely to stage a random invasion before he died (because he is not a lich, zombie, Dracula or other creature that reanimates after death). Deciding to galvanize people to rebuild the military? Smart. Doing so by specifically targeting the Republic instead of, I don't know, the Clans? Stupid. Sarah Regis shows that there's plenty of people willing to die for the idea of Tamar even a century later, and the Clans are never going to stop trying to attack you because they've decided peace is Literally Genocide.

Like all Somerset Steiners, he was a dingus best left in a shallow grave.
« Last Edit: 13 August 2022, 21:12:25 by Caesar Steiner for Archon »


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Cannonshop

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #168 on: 14 August 2022, 07:23:43 »
Even if you're correct, Andrew was out to start shit with his only neighbor NOT likely to stage a random invasion before he died (because he is not a lich, zombie, Dracula or other creature that reanimates after death). Deciding to galvanize people to rebuild the military? Smart. Doing so by specifically targeting the Republic instead of, I don't know, the Clans? Stupid. Sarah Regis shows that there's plenty of people willing to die for the idea of Tamar even a century later, and the Clans are never going to stop trying to attack you because they've decided peace is Literally Genocide.

Like all Somerset Steiners, he was a dingus best left in a shallow grave.

Why would the Republic 'start shit' when they've got all the benefits of conquest without the drawbacks?  Look at the condition of the Commonwealth post-Stone.  They didn't have the infrastructure to maintain themselves without Republic 'help' (because if you are an interstellar nation and you don't have a robust shipping industry, you stop being an interstellar nation). 
Recognizing that you've been effectively turned into a colony market isn't being a dingus, it's recognizing that your unequal treaties give you all the benefits of being conquered without the whole messy (for the conqueror) business of having to garrison it or fight someone.

ONE shipyard for a nation the size of the Commonwealth, Ceasar, better than four decades after (allegedly) they stopped blowing them up.  The only industries that were rebuilt, were the ones beneficial to the Republic, and the Republic effectively owned the communications through Comstar.

Andrew was RIGHT to view the Republic as an enemy.  His predecessors had effectively signed over everything but the drawbacks of sovereignty to a Terran government, AFTER turning over the Isle of Skye, and got not much better than some blankets and beads and a promise of military support in exchange.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #169 on: 15 August 2022, 02:36:36 »
Why would the Republic 'start shit' when they've got all the benefits of conquest without the drawbacks?  Look at the condition of the Commonwealth post-Stone.  They didn't have the infrastructure to maintain themselves without Republic 'help' (because if you are an interstellar nation and you don't have a robust shipping industry, you stop being an interstellar nation). 
Recognizing that you've been effectively turned into a colony market isn't being a dingus, it's recognizing that your unequal treaties give you all the benefits of being conquered without the whole messy (for the conqueror) business of having to garrison it or fight someone.

ONE shipyard for a nation the size of the Commonwealth, Ceasar, better than four decades after (allegedly) they stopped blowing them up.  The only industries that were rebuilt, were the ones beneficial to the Republic, and the Republic effectively owned the communications through Comstar.

Andrew was RIGHT to view the Republic as an enemy.  His predecessors had effectively signed over everything but the drawbacks of sovereignty to a Terran government, AFTER turning over the Isle of Skye, and got not much better than some blankets and beads and a promise of military support in exchange.

Andf to support that in FM 3085 David Lear explicitly said that having Gibbs as their only ship yard is a weakness they should exploit and I think he also said that it should be kept that way. Though why the Commonwealth never tried to build another yard in secret is beyond me

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #170 on: 15 August 2022, 04:14:19 »
Andf to support that in FM 3085 David Lear explicitly said that having Gibbs as their only ship yard is a weakness they should exploit and I think he also said that it should be kept that way. Though why the Commonwealth never tried to build another yard in secret is beyond me

my guess is the LC post Jihad was LOUSY with ROTS spies

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #171 on: 15 August 2022, 09:40:51 »
Andf to support that in FM 3085 David Lear explicitly said that having Gibbs as their only ship yard is a weakness they should exploit and I think he also said that it should be kept that way. Though why the Commonwealth never tried to build another yard in secret is beyond me

They had other repair/maintenance yards however . . . the other critical thing is, did everything for the Lyran warship program come off a single world?

All of which is pretty far astray of the OP.

By this point we have Trillian and Nikol addressed, Ari & Ilsa which are married but w/o heirs though one sidebar for Ari brought it up.  Which leaves us Daoshen (though he has Danai as the presumed heir), the two TC halves that are marrying, Julian Davion, and Yori Kurita as the main faction leaders w/o marriages & heirs.  Look down a layer and we get no heirs lined out for Regulus, no word of the Capellan March heir, and who the heck is even in line for the Draconis March throne?
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Templar87

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #172 on: 15 August 2022, 09:58:58 »
They had other repair/maintenance yards however . . . the other critical thing is, did everything for the Lyran warship program come off a single world?

All of which is pretty far astray of the OP.

By this point we have Trillian and Nikol addressed, Ari & Ilsa which are married but w/o heirs though one sidebar for Ari brought it up.  Which leaves us Daoshen (though he has Danai as the presumed heir), the two TC halves that are marrying, Julian Davion, and Yori Kurita as the main faction leaders w/o marriages & heirs.  Look down a layer and we get no heirs lined out for Regulus, no word of the Capellan March heir, and who the heck is even in line for the Draconis March throne?


I think the leading contender that we've been told about, at the moment, is Erik Sandoval-Groell for Duke of Robinson, although presumably we'll be getting more information in Dominions Divided. There are plenty of Sandoval cadet branches, after all.
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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #173 on: 15 August 2022, 10:19:27 »
Erik's ancestry goes back to Tancred's aunt . . . I am wondering if they might dig up the Mara (?) Sandoval who defeated him in one of his early activities in the Republic.  Of course the odds of her surviving the fall of the Republic outside the Fortress and then the Drac's storming the Capellan March are small.
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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #174 on: 15 August 2022, 12:20:18 »

I think the leading contender that we've been told about, at the moment, is Erik Sandoval-Groell for Duke of Robinson, although presumably we'll be getting more information in Dominions Divided. There are plenty of Sandoval cadet branches, after all.

According to Era Report 3145 the Ducal title for Robinson went to Eric when the previous Duke of Robinson died during the defense of Robinson. I would assume Aaron Sandoval would have been in line too but he died on Tikonov. And as Templar said the Sandovals have many cadet branches. Though who knows how many of those survived the initial thrust of the Combine into the Draconis March. Makes me wonder if Eric actually has a hidden spouse. After all he IS one of the most important persons in the Fedsuns at the moment and he needs an heir as well. And I doubt he would actually marry the "agent" he recruited after the battle on St Andre.

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #175 on: 15 August 2022, 20:46:43 »
no need for a "secrect wife" Erik isn't a monarch so there's no real reason to mention his spouse Erik's the type who they culd sldie in a "so eric how's the wife and 4 kids?" line into a novel and it wouldn't raise the "Wait how was this never mentioned before?" question

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #176 on: 15 August 2022, 21:42:01 »
Victor still has a lot of descendants who've only been mentioned in passing or have appeared then dropped off the radar.  Of course he disavowed any claim to the throne for his line, but that doesn't mean Julian couldn't void that and adopt one of them.  Or marry Victor's granddaughter/great-granddaughter/etc.


We know Kitsune has two daughters, born, as best I can tell, some time after he became a Knight in 3093, but they could still be over 50 by now, perhaps with children of their own (though that's pure speculation).  Jade, born 3068, has no known children AFAIK  (But that's not to say one couldn't appear, having languished unnoticed by the people who write these things in-character, until now).  Burton, born 3072, died in 3112 fighting alongside Kai in the Capellan Crusades, but left at least three children: his son Gavin, who seems to be involved with the Curaitis Organization and gave Julian some intelligence once, and daughters Simone and Nessa, of whom we know nothing but their existence.  Burton's twin brother Lee has no know children AFAIK (Same caveats as with Jade apply).  It wouldn't be that hard for Simone, Nessa, or one of Kitsune's daughters to pop up, having recently fled the Republic (or perhaps even serving in Task Force Navarre or the Dawn Guards) and end up attached to Julian.
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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #177 on: 15 August 2022, 23:04:31 »
Actually pretty sure Nissa or Simone were at his funeral with her daughters.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #178 on: 16 August 2022, 06:18:25 »
Actually pretty sure Nissa or Simone were at his funeral with her daughters.

And that was over 15 years before the fall of Terra. For all we know they could now have kids as well and maybe even have left Terra for parts unkown. What I found odd is that there was no mention of what Kitsune did during the last years of the Republic. He was a knight after all. Though I somehow doubt he actually fought himself he is / was probably one of the old guard now.

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Re: Bachelor rulers, or why no one is marrying?
« Reply #179 on: 16 August 2022, 09:14:13 »
Oh yeah, my point was you could have had Vic's grand-daughters in play.

BUT . . . Victor's grandchildren having perhaps fled the fall of the Republic, they would be useful pawns for anyone wanting to play games with . . . at least two thrones, three for Isis descendants.  One of them turning up in the League when/if Nikol faces a question of confidence- can the new parliament call a vote of no confidence?- would allow someone to stir the pot.
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