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Author Topic: Battlemech manufacturing during the Succession Wars  (Read 5497 times)

Hellraiser

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Re: Battlemech manufacturing during the Succession Wars
« Reply #60 on: 04 January 2022, 10:50:33 »
Liao:
Highlander 733 (Hollis Ind, Corey, thru 4SW)

Davion:
Longbow 0W (StarCorps, Crofton)

Steiner:
Longbow 0W (StarCorps, Loburg)
Stalker 3F (Trellshire HI, Twycross)

I think these appear to be off.

Highlander was just rebuilding destroyed chassis till the mid 30's.

The 0W was what Marik was producing but the 7Q was the FS/LC production.

Stalker is also in production on Hesperus, but, I can't confirm the year that starts.

Also, your missing the Zeus line on Furillo
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

CVB

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Re: Battlemech manufacturing during the Succession Wars
« Reply #61 on: 04 January 2022, 14:43:35 »
From my notes, the assaults produced in 3025 were...
Davion:
Longbow 0W (StarCorps, Crofton)

Steiner:
Longbow 0W (StarCorps, Loburg)

Do we have direct canon sources for any StarCorps production in 3025?
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
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Hellraiser

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Re: Battlemech manufacturing during the Succession Wars
« Reply #62 on: 04 January 2022, 15:03:29 »
Do we have direct canon sources for any StarCorps production in 3025?

TRO3058 is probably the best bet.
The Longbow was introduced in a scenario book so those factories are all missing from the early housebooks but that is hardly a thing.
There are a LOT of mechs that were added in later sources that were making mechs not mentioned in the first 5 house books or TRO3025
Like T-Bolts in the FWL for example & a whole slew of Cappie stuff IIRC.
Some of the Werke/Talon designs etc etc.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

jasonf

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Re: Battlemech manufacturing during the Succession Wars
« Reply #63 on: 04 January 2022, 17:23:57 »
I think these appear to be off.

Highlander was just rebuilding destroyed chassis till the mid 30's.

The 0W was what Marik was producing but the 7Q was the FS/LC production.

Stalker is also in production on Hesperus, but, I can't confirm the year that starts.

Also, your missing the Zeus line on Furillo

Capellan Highlander is from TR3039 (as is the later Son Hoa production):
"Hollis continued to custom-build the 733 models until the Fourth Succession War, when its license was revoked. With the capture of the Corey production line and the discovery of the Helm Memory Core, StarCorps was able to begin producing 733 refits on Son Hoa by the mid 3030s."

Longbow OW/7Q production is also from TR3039 (Project Phx section).
Produced on Crofton, Loburg, and Emris IV (destroyed 3014), later notes that "two factories have survived to the current day, and a third has been nearly rebuilt after suffering serious damage during Duke Anton’s Revolt in 3014."
As for the 7Q, it doesn't say much to suggest that it is still produced at that time (though it also doesn't explicitly rule it out): "The LGB-7Q solved many of the OW’s problems by ... Despite these improvements, this variant never achieved the commercial success of the 0W."
I also didn't see any mention of it in TR-PP

I didn't see anything in my sources for a Zeus on Furillo or a Stalker on Hesperus. I just double checked TR3025R, TR3039, TR3050, TR3050U, Obj Raids.
I do have the upgraded versions of both produced on Furillo starting in the 3050s, though (both are listed in HB:House Steiner). I feel like there might be another source that pinned their production start to the 3050s specifically, but I can't remember/find it.


lrose

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Re: Battlemech manufacturing during the Succession Wars
« Reply #64 on: 05 January 2022, 09:28:55 »

I didn't see anything in my sources for a Zeus on Furillo or a Stalker on Hesperus. I just double checked TR3025R, TR3039, TR3050, TR3050U, Obj Raids.
I do have the upgraded versions of both produced on Furillo starting in the 3050s, though (both are listed in HB:House Steiner). I feel like there might be another source that pinned their production start to the 3050s specifically, but I can't remember/find it.

The original House Steiner SB (p. 121) has the Zeu-6S being built on Furillo



jasonf

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Re: Battlemech manufacturing during the Succession Wars
« Reply #65 on: 05 January 2022, 10:10:08 »
The original House Steiner SB (p. 121) has the Zeu-6S being built on Furillo
A-ha! Thanks!

Hellraiser

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Re: Battlemech manufacturing during the Succession Wars
« Reply #66 on: 07 January 2022, 23:47:48 »
The original House Steiner SB (p. 121) has the Zeu-6S being built on Furillo

A-ha! Thanks!

He beat me to it.

Also not sure why I was misremembering the Marik-Longbow-OW thing, the Longbow-7Q is in production in all 3 realms per the original TRO:3058 noting that it replaced the OW in 2610 with the new 7V model only being listed in the "Variants" section & not the main TRO entry for the mech.

The Stalker is from Objectives:LA, but again, not sure if that is new post Clan Invasion because they lost Trellshire or if its a retcon & the Stalker was always there.
« Last Edit: 07 January 2022, 23:52:47 by Hellraiser »
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

jasonf

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Re: Battlemech manufacturing during the Succession Wars
« Reply #67 on: 08 January 2022, 10:04:21 »
The Stalker is from Objectives:LA, but again, not sure if that is new post Clan Invasion because they lost Trellshire or if its a retcon & the Stalker was always there.
Yeah, I've assumed that since it shows up later it's the opening of a new line sometime during the Clan Invasion, especially since there was nothing in the latest TROs.

Also not sure why I was misremembering the Marik-Longbow-OW thing, the Longbow-7Q is in production in all 3 realms per the original TRO:3058 noting that it replaced the OW in 2610 with the new 7V model only being listed in the "Variants" section & not the main TRO entry for the mech.
Probably because there's some interesting retcons between TR3058 to TR3039 to RecGuide 20...
TR3058: A TR of upgraded tech models that focuses on the IntroTech 7Q, mentioning the 7V upgrade is produced alongside it with sparse production of the 0W
TR3039: Focuses in the 0W instead, noting that the 7Q was never popular
RC20: Notes that the series of -C and -W variants were the dominant SW-era Longbows the whole time

Hellraiser

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Re: Battlemech manufacturing during the Succession Wars
« Reply #68 on: 09 January 2022, 14:49:05 »
So I think I've pieced together the Longbow fluff & TRO info both in universe & out of universe.

Some things to consider.

1.  Original Longbow-0W existed in a Scenario book & had artwork in a few books, BUT, it was all the old Unseen art from Macross.

2.  TRO3058 Artwork was different to avoid the Unseen issue & that art only exists for, in theory, 3 models.  7Q, 7V, & 8V?

3.  The Longbow never had a proper 3025 Era TRO entry prior to 3058 so they needed something to showcase a 3025 version that "Wasn't" also the Unseen artwork.

4.  TRO3058-U also clarifies the popularity & factory production info.


So I'm guessing it got an Intro variant do give the fans something with the "new" artwork to replace the old Unseen stuff & as to give it a "history" entry since it lacked one the way other models got 3025 & then 3050.

You have production of the 0W from 25xx - 2610.
In 2610 the 7Q comes out as a superior product in every way, except Speed, as such, it never gains the popularity of the 0W.
As such, while it is the new "Main Production" model, the 0W is noted in 3058U as still being in "Limited Production" along side the 7Q till 3060-ish when the 12C "Re-Seen/Phoenix" variant completely pushes the 0W off the production lines.
Both introtech models are being produced at all 3 factories in the FS, LC, & FWL.

My own headcannon, explains the 7Q failing to be popular is that speed loss.
It basically regulates it to assignment in Slow Assault Units & dedicated Indirect Fire Companies since assigning it to a regular Heavy/Battle company will leave it too slow to run & lacking enough close range firepower to actually close-assault something.
  The 0W for all its flaws, stayed popular through that speed & being able to keep up with 4/6 mechs.
Also, I vaguely recall it having a 2nd ton of LRM5 ammo?  So speed & Ammo Endurance?
« Last Edit: 10 January 2022, 13:52:28 by Hellraiser »
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

jasonf

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Re: Battlemech manufacturing during the Succession Wars
« Reply #69 on: 10 January 2022, 12:35:14 »
I think that reconciles everything, yes, with the added, short-lived production of the -7V between the -7Q(?) and -12C.
From there, the Rec Guides suggest that there was always quite a few -8Cs around, but its production ended centuries ago. There are also quite a few -0W2s, but these were always field refits.

But to try to get back OT, both the LGB-7Q and LGB-0W are produced by the FS, LC, and FWL in 3025!  :thumbsup:
 

Hellraiser

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Re: Battlemech manufacturing during the Succession Wars
« Reply #70 on: 10 January 2022, 13:47:20 »
I'm unfamiliar with the 8C, what is that one?

My guess is the 7V line shifted over to 8V once that arrived, it uses the same chassis/engine & weapons layout for the most part just swapping LRMs & some MPL for Arrow.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

jasonf

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Re: Battlemech manufacturing during the Succession Wars
« Reply #71 on: 10 January 2022, 22:10:06 »
I'm unfamiliar with the 8C, what is that one?

My guess is the 7V line shifted over to 8V once that arrived, it uses the same chassis/engine & weapons layout for the most part just swapping LRMs & some MPL for Arrow.

The 8C is "new," as in it is canonized in Rec Guide 20, but it is retconned as being introduced in 2615. It's essentially a 7Q that swaps out 2 heat sinks for 2 rear-mounted MLs.
The other retconned Longbow's there are the -OW2 (another SL-era retcon), the -10H (a Civil War-era Periphery refit with rocket launchers), and the -10C (a StarCorps factory refit that went into full production during the Dark Age).

I had assumed the 8V was a field refit, though that's mostly because I never found any fluff for it.

I feel like the Longbow will soon require its own tree on ancestry.com at this rate...

 

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