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Author Topic: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?  (Read 7586 times)

Nerroth

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #90 on: 24 January 2022, 11:54:14 »
During the first Star League, the First Lord also held the title of Duke of New Avalon. At the time, it was deemed to be a largely ceremonial position; however, as Paul Davion proved when he laid claim to it during the First Succession War, it turned out to offer a distinct range of prerogatives which handily complemented those of the title of First Prince.

So, if the current First Prince wanted to accommodate (some of) Alaric's claims without abrogating (all of) his own, there would be historical precedent in recognizing him as both First Lord and as Duke of New Avalon.

That is, depending on which - if either - of them manages to reach New Avalon first, in order to establish such a line of negotiation...
« Last Edit: 24 January 2022, 12:00:01 by Nerroth »

Decoy

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #91 on: 24 January 2022, 12:23:41 »
I'm sorry if my expectations for the future of this faction sound like wishing ill fortune upon it. However, this is the ilClan's era. Conditions must be so that the ilClan dominates. If TPTB are willing enough to let the FedSuns come out of the hole that they placed the FedSuns in, then sure. I'll be ...content with it.  Heck, if the FedSuns can do something equivalent to the Doolittle raids, I'd be over the moon.


I am going to float three ideas, and I'll let you decide how unhinged they are.

1) A lance of Rabid Fox Scarecrows pay a visit to the Death Commando barracks while the Death Commandoes sleep.

2) The grand majority of the Snow Raven's warships receive updates to their navigation software and their next jump places them inside the nearest star.

3) Two Sword of Light regiments are killed to a man trying to hold New Avalon from Julian. No Quarter is asked for. None Given.

MarauderD

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #92 on: 24 January 2022, 12:40:54 »
I'm sorry if my expectations for the future of this faction sound like wishing ill fortune upon it. However, this is the ilClan's era. Conditions must be so that the ilClan dominates. If TPTB are willing enough to let the FedSuns come out of the hole that they placed the FedSuns in, then sure. I'll be ...content with it.  Heck, if the FedSuns can do something equivalent to the Doolittle raids, I'd be over the moon.


I am going to float three ideas, and I'll let you decide how unhinged they are.

1) A lance of Rabid Fox Scarecrows pay a visit to the Death Commando barracks while the Death Commandoes sleep.

2) The grand majority of the Snow Raven's warships receive updates to their navigation software and their next jump places them inside the nearest star.

3) Two Sword of Light regiments are killed to a man trying to hold New Avalon from Julian. No Quarter is asked for. None Given.

Point 3 needs to involve the Battle Pope, my 4th Davion Guards, and Rabid Foxes. 

Perfection, thank you for thinking of it.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #93 on: 24 January 2022, 13:59:12 »
Point 3 needs to involve the Battle Pope, my 4th Davion Guards, and Rabid Foxes. 

Perfection, thank you for thinking of it.

And it needs Cardinal VTOL's dropping Purifier battle armor on the heretic Kurita soldiers

Adrian Gideon

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #94 on: 28 January 2022, 18:58:59 »
I would prefer a descendant of Hanse on the throne, even if I like Julian, and Victor's children are the only option.
Not necesarrily. And I don't mean Alaric...who counts Hanse as both his grandfathers.
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BrianDavion

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #95 on: 28 January 2022, 19:13:25 »
Not necesarrily. And I don't mean Alaric...who counts Hanse as both his grandfathers.

Yeah there's Trillian Steiner, I suppose it'd be easy eneugh to retcon in Yvvone having had more then 1 kid (though you'd think that woulda been mentioned... hell maybe that was Julian's mother? would would defacto make Julian MUCH closer to the previous line of sucession then we'd thought)...

VensersRevenge

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #96 on: 28 January 2022, 19:45:32 »
Or I suppose Arthur could have had kids either before or after he disappeared who would have claims to both the Suns and Commonwealth.
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Mendrugo

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #97 on: 28 January 2022, 20:07:23 »
The Sword and the Dagger noted in passing that Hanse was sleeping with several women during the years he was engaged to Melissa (waiting for her to come of age).  Also of note, Hanse’s sister Marie (who married Michael Hasek) was illegitimate, but still got to call herself Davion and her child (Morgan) was Hanse’s heir until Victor was born.

So, if the Sword/Dagger liaisons had any byproducts, there is precedent.
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Lord Harlock

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #98 on: 28 January 2022, 21:56:16 »
As much as I'd like to speculate on Yvonne having another child, any theoretical Sandoval-Davion daughter would have been mentioned by now. And the uncle connection between Harrison and Julian would have been noted as less a noble older cousin.

And Arthur being Julian's maternal grandpa would be interesting, but I figure that the WoB probably took that vital component away from poor Arthur. Poor Apollyon was pantless for crying out loud and a eunuch. The mechanized legs leave nothing to
the imagination. So I doubt that Arthur has any normal offsprings if any. Plus any Arthur Andrew Steiner-Davion issue would be probably too far removed from Argyle to attract one Christoffer Davion.

A bastard child of Hanse would be interesting, but again, one probably would have shown up by now.

That leaves us with the sixth Steiner-Davion . . . Joshua Steiner-Davion. For those of you who read the BattleCorp story the "Gauntlet" by Ilsa Bick, you already know what I am going to say. However, the story isn't readily available, so I figure spoiler. During the conference where the FedCom Alliance was worked out on Earth, Comstar took DNA from Katrina and later got DNA from Hanse to create Joshua. In a sense, he is a 'trueborn' Steiner-Davion just like his nephew Alaric. Besides being the eldest of the Steiner-Davion siblings, he is also their uncle thanks to being Melissa's brother. After being recovered by Ardan Sortek and the Doppelganger Hanse, Joshua was placed into an foster home by Hanse Davion due to being a threat to the FedCom Alliance by his mere existence, so theoretically he could have a daughter or granddaughter who married Christoffer Davion. And the fun thing is that no one would be the wiser.
« Last Edit: 28 January 2022, 21:58:24 by Lord Harlock »

Colt Ward

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #99 on: 28 January 2022, 22:54:55 »
Julian still has that mystery phone card given to him by Gavin way back around the time the wall went up around the republic. As far as know he hasn't used it yet. Gavin and his organization said there would be a price paid is he called to use. Wonder if that thread will come back into use.
What do they have to offer Julian that will help out the Suns?

Don't you mean Eric? Eric Sanoval was given a card by "One-Eye" Jack before he arrived on Terra. Did Julian recieve the same? Or was that something else? Eric actually used that service quiet frequently which meant his expenses wnet through the roof. Though I think this might be the private intelligence service that was founded right after the jihad (the one mentioned in the IE§ source book)

Eric got a different card . . . and it was one for Bannson I think? since it was on Terra, it is part of what prompted him to leave and head back to meet up with Caleb.

The one that Julian got was at the end of the book where Fortress Republic was announced, right after he had finished seeing off Connor Rhys-Monroe . . . which was really pointless after the Fortress was announced.  Interesting bit in THAT book is that Julian fought with and commanded Yori along with some Dragon's Fury followers she picked up in that battle, so he should have some insights on what she was like back in 3135-ish.  The card Julian got was from Gavin, and was at the same time he got the information Caleb was bonkers and some sort of hint that Harrison was going to name him as his successor.  Part of Julian having the whole internal debate about what was best for the Suns.

The thing about the card we do not know was it a promise of help for Julian if he sought to overthrow Caleb?  Or just for the off-the-books intel organization that was the Curaitis group?  To me, that name is very interesting . . . does the FedSuns have a intel/covert ops secret society something like Heimdall (which Curaitis was exposed to) that had been operating since the end of the FCCW when they accomplished their 'mission'?
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BrianDavion

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #100 on: 28 January 2022, 23:18:24 »
Eric got a different card . . . and it was one for Bannson I think? since it was on Terra, it is part of what prompted him to leave and head back to meet up with Caleb.

The one that Julian got was at the end of the book where Fortress Republic was announced, right after he had finished seeing off Connor Rhys-Monroe . . . which was really pointless after the Fortress was announced.  Interesting bit in THAT book is that Julian fought with and commanded Yori along with some Dragon's Fury followers she picked up in that battle, so he should have some insights on what she was like back in 3135-ish.  The card Julian got was from Gavin, and was at the same time he got the information Caleb was bonkers and some sort of hint that Harrison was going to name him as his successor.  Part of Julian having the whole internal debate about what was best for the Suns.

The thing about the card we do not know was it a promise of help for Julian if he sought to overthrow Caleb?  Or just for the off-the-books intel organization that was the Curaitis group?  To me, that name is very interesting . . . does the FedSuns have a intel/covert ops secret society something like Heimdall (which Curaitis was exposed to) that had been operating since the end of the FCCW when they accomplished their 'mission'?

it's definatly a dangling plot hook I'd like to see resolved. heck for all we know it's the latest iteration of the warrior's cabal the warriors cabal reappering and serving as sort of a "davion  Heimdal" would actually be an intreasting twist.

Wrangler

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #101 on: 29 January 2022, 08:18:32 »
What about children of Yvonne Davion?  (older one from Fourth Succession Wars)  She was Prince's Champion before Sotek.   She had like several children including Jackson Davion.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #102 on: 29 January 2022, 10:03:58 »
I'm sorry if my expectations for the future of this faction sound like wishing ill fortune upon it. However, this is the ilClan's era. Conditions must be so that the ilClan dominates. If TPTB are willing enough to let the FedSuns come out of the hole that they placed the FedSuns in, then sure. I'll be ...content with it.  Heck, if the FedSuns can do something equivalent to the Doolittle raids, I'd be over the moon.


I am going to float three ideas, and I'll let you decide how unhinged they are.

1) A lance of Rabid Fox Scarecrows pay a visit to the Death Commando barracks while the Death Commandoes sleep.

2) The grand majority of the Snow Raven's warships receive updates to their navigation software and their next jump places them inside the nearest star.

3) Two Sword of Light regiments are killed to a man trying to hold New Avalon from Julian. No Quarter is asked for. None Given.


1) is a short-story and probably won't do more than feed the anti-Davion loudmouths out there.
2) Uh, why?? CSR isn't the one occupying half the Federated Suns, They're not (really) a factor.  (Navies are weak in the setting and will continue to be so.)
3)This one works.  This one makes sense.

I'm going to counter two of these with an alternate proposal, and it links with your third.

Begin with a basic understanding:  "We have succeeded to the point of failure", aka Pyhhus  said it best: "One more victory like this and we are undone."

The Draconis Combine is grossly overextended, a victim of their own success and the short-sightedness of the Warlords currenly pulling Yori's strings.  Caleb's mistakes and stupidity may have made this possible, but they also made it possible for pragmatic, intelligent, junior-in-service-time leadership to take the reins and recognize that there are, in fact, orders you don't follow and lords you don't obey (but there are lords YOU DO obey, and Orders you carry out!)

Palmyra might have swallowed  a number of elite units, and cost the Federated Suns most of their heavy Naval, but that's not necessarily a bad thing-it also purged the AFFS of a huge number of connected incompetents.

a Leaner, Meaner, more-fit-mentally AFFS under Julian takes the field in a controlled, intelligent manner, and proceeds to ram the DCMS overextension right up the Warlord's ass sideways.
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BrianDavion

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #103 on: 29 January 2022, 13:38:08 »
1 might have the useal anti-davion loudmouths complain but personally the death commandos have always annoyed me "they're the most elite mechwarriors in the inner sphere, they're the most elite commandos in the inner sphere... AT THE SAME TIME!"

I mean let's face it, this is a regiment of mary sues.

Cannonshop

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #104 on: 29 January 2022, 13:47:35 »
1 might have the useal anti-davion loudmouths complain but personally the death commandos have always annoyed me "they're the most elite mechwarriors in the inner sphere, they're the most elite commandos in the inner sphere... AT THE SAME TIME!"

I mean let's face it, this is a regiment of mary sues.

I'm not really saying 'don't do it' I'm saying in order TO do it, you need to build on your context in such a way that even Cappie fans look at what you did, and say, "Yeah, that's natural, that makes sense."

I think it's possible or I wouldn't put it that way, btw.  I may not have the chops to do it in the fanfic boards, but you (or a fellow in your personal circle) might.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #105 on: 01 February 2022, 20:38:37 »
What about children of Yvonne Davion?  (older one from Fourth Succession Wars)  She was Prince's Champion before Sotek.   She had like several children including Jackson Davion.
Julian is Yvonne’s great-grandson, Jackson was his grandfather.  I can’t recall any siblings or cousins of Julian’s having been mentioned.
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Adrian Gideon

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #106 on: 02 February 2022, 00:24:04 »
That leaves us with the sixth Steiner-Davion
Yup.
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BrianDavion

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #107 on: 02 February 2022, 00:48:52 »
Yup.

for god's sake leave that stupid idea in the dustbin of forgotten lore where it belongs.

VensersRevenge

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #108 on: 02 February 2022, 00:52:39 »
That would be worse than Alaric if it actually matters.
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BrianDavion

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #109 on: 02 February 2022, 01:14:55 »
That would be worse than Alaric if it actually matters.

yeah I think I'd rather have "Prince Alaric Ward" rather then "Master 2.0"

Mendrugo

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #110 on: 02 February 2022, 01:23:40 »
See - that FWL anti-bionic prejudice was right all along, but everyone else just thought they were weird.
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Wrangler

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #111 on: 02 February 2022, 07:27:34 »
Wasn't there a daughter mentioned as a side story? She didn't have the Davion name, but Hanse recognized her.  However, she had relationship with a St. Ives fellow and disappeared with him, faking her death or something. I swear I read that last year somewhere.
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abou

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #112 on: 02 February 2022, 11:02:04 »
That leaves us with the sixth Steiner-Davion . . . Joshua Steiner-Davion. For those of you who read the BattleCorp story the "Gauntlet" by Ilsa Bick, you already know what I am going to say. However, the story isn't readily available, so I figure spoiler. During the conference where the FedCom Alliance was worked out on Earth, Comstar took DNA from Katrina and later got DNA from Hanse to create Joshua. In a sense, he is a 'trueborn' Steiner-Davion just like his nephew Alaric. Besides being the eldest of the Steiner-Davion siblings, he is also their uncle thanks to being Melissa's brother. After being recovered by Ardan Sortek and the Doppelganger Hanse, Joshua was placed into an foster home by Hanse Davion due to being a threat to the FedCom Alliance by his mere existence, so theoretically he could have a daughter or granddaughter who married Christoffer Davion. And the fun thing is that no one would be the wiser.
Whoa... I would definitely read that story.

MarauderD

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #113 on: 02 February 2022, 12:28:47 »
Whoa... I would definitely read that story.

Interesting yes, but I'm tired of all the weird plotlines--Sun Tzu is actually Hanse's clone, etc.  Just let the Steiner-Davion line die, and Julian be the First Prince.  We need an heir and a spare--so lets get this eligible guy hitched. 

Lord Harlock

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #114 on: 02 February 2022, 16:40:30 »
Wasn't there a daughter mentioned as a side story? She didn't have the Davion name, but Hanse recognized her.  However, she had relationship with a St. Ives fellow and disappeared with him, faking her death or something. I swear I read that last year somewhere.

Not to my knowledge. From Sword and Dagger which I never read, there was speculation that Hanse might be uninterested in women according to Max Liao due to a lack of known mistresses and Hanse being at that point a lifelong bachelor, Plus, we know from another Battlecorps short story that Hanse cared deeply for Dana Stephenson who was his fiancée, but she died tragically at Halstead Station in 3013. His Battlemaster is even named Dana.

My point is that Hanse has never been shown to be a philanderer, so I kind of doubt that Hanse has any bastards.

Whoa... I would definitely read that story.

It was posted on Battlecorps, and it was easy to pull stories off of the site since everything was stored as PDFs. It is possible that someone saved the Gauntlet for future reference.

Interesting yes, but I'm tired of all the weird plotlines--Sun Tzu is actually Hanse's clone, etc.  Just let the Steiner-Davion line die, and Julian be the First Prince.  We need an heir and a spare--so lets get this eligible guy hitched. 

I am not against weird plot lines as long as they lead to something.

A small part of the reason that I hated Devlin Stone ultimately is because hints that he might have been a brainwashed Arthur Steiner-Davion in the real early days of Mechwarrior Dark Age were thrown to the wayside in favor of keeping it a guessing game which ultimately just lead to nothing. And that is what I hate is a tidbit of an idea that ultimately is nothing. That is doubly true when you finally meet the character and the first thing you want to do is smoother him with a pillow.

Sun-Tzu Liao being the son of Hanse Davion or Justin Allard is interesting, and there is plausibility there. Romano Liao liked to sleep around especially as Chancellor, and that could easily cover a case of artificial insemination with genetic material from either Doppelgänger or Justin’s time in the Mask. However, it doesn’t change the character of Sun-Tzu unless discovering his true father was not Tsen Shang caused Sun-Tzu to go crazy on Liao during the Capellan Crusades.

Taking a small tidbit of lore and using it to make a better story is an awesome ability as a writer. It is what allowed Michael Stackpole to make the Warrior Trilogy ultimately an awesome a trilogy of books since everything hinged on Operation Doppelgänger. However, the dangling of plot threads too much and not answering them will drive off readers or viewers especially if you try to subvert expectations.

Just my viewpoint, I guess. It’s not like my stories ever sell. Sigh.
« Last Edit: 03 February 2022, 11:04:05 by Lord Harlock »

BrianDavion

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #115 on: 02 February 2022, 22:00:38 »
I largely agree Harlock, a lot of that "LOL conspiracy" stuff just felt like it was done for the sake of doing it. My reaction to that stuff wasn't "OHH THATS INTREASTING" it was "....... really? are you really wasting your time writing this national enquirerer level crap?"

abou

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #116 on: 02 February 2022, 23:03:26 »
I'll definitely take weird plots as long as there is payoff and internal consistency to the story.

BrianDavion

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #117 on: 02 February 2022, 23:19:32 »
weird plots are alright on occasion, but there's a time where you wonder if the writers are just recycling rejected pitches from day time soaps.....:)

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #118 on: 03 February 2022, 01:40:34 »
Wasn't there a daughter mentioned as a side story? She didn't have the Davion name, but Hanse recognized her.  However, she had relationship with a St. Ives fellow and disappeared with him, faking her death or something. I swear I read that last year somewhere.

That was one of JA Baker fanfics
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/who-goes-there/390/
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Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: Can The FedSuns Save Itself In the iLClan Era?
« Reply #119 on: 06 February 2022, 08:19:26 »
What about if Gavin Marik-Davion's "price" is a marriage between Julian and one of his sisters Simone or Nessa? Reunifying the two bloodlines and managing to circumvent the block on Victors descendents taking the throne?