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Author Topic: ex-ComGuard/ComStar personnel still hunt down WoB remnants post jihad?  (Read 947 times)

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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You know ComGuard was effectively butchered during Jihad, and most of the survivors are join Republic after the war.

But I don't think that ALL of them are simply join the republic. So, is there any groups that didn't join the republic, but still want to seek and destroy their treacherous brothers and sisters ever since?

Frabby

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Read the novel Blood Avatar. Perhaps you can make sense of the plot; I couldn't (and apparently no one else could either).

But according to my best attempts at understanding what was going on, there was a WoB sleeper cell on Denebola well into the Dark Age who went native. They got into a fight with, uh, others - whose identity I failed to understand, but either it was sort of a "civil war" among WoB sleeper cells, and/or against local anti-WoB agents, and/or against Republican anti-WoB agents that may or may not include former ComStar personnel, and/or against a supposed secret alliance between Devlin Stone, the Clans, and the Great Houses. (Sounds crazy? Yes. But the killer explains his views in the final showdown, and seriously believes in that secret alliance - and the evidence and hints in the book are all over the place, making this particular idea no less plausible than all the others, without spelling out what the heck was actually going on.)

One speculation is that there were ComStar-backed (or staffed) hunter cells hunting after the WoB cells. Mind you, the novel offers no actual proof, but you can basically distill evidence to almost anything out of it. The most important character in this respect, Kozda, lied at least once (about the number of Ghost operatives she had, an information only shared with the reader at the end) and is apparently an unreliable source. No way to tell what's truth, speculation, or outright misinformation.
« Last Edit: 07 January 2021, 18:00:21 by Frabby »
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No way to tell what's truth, speculation, or outright misinformation.
?

Isn't that Comstar in a nutshell
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Nav_Alpha

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?

Isn't that Comstar in a nutshell

Next up on the ComStar Files... did Focht clone an army of Victor Davion super soldiers....?

In response to the OP - I think, sure!
We know there’s organisations like the Mario Lewis Foundation - dedicated purely to hunting down Blakist war criminals that counts many veterans of Stone’s troops and presumably a heap of former ComGuards.
There’s also the private intelligence firm mentioned in Interstellar Players 3 - one of the founders is a ROM agent, another a defecting Wobbie.
So, private sector organisations dedicated to Blakist hunting or... justice... would make great use of ex-ComGuards.

Or go, merc and sign on with IE who are actively seeking the remains of the Hidden Five post-Jihad.

You need some to bankroll your quest for vengeance - hence why I’d suggest a private sector backer or operating as a merc.

What about this scenario - a wealthy nobleman or industrialist secretly financed an insurgency against the Word occupation of his homeworld.
Just prior to liberation in 3077, his operation is found out by ROM - he flees into the wilds, but his wife and youngest son are caught, tortured and then executed on live TV.
Meanwhile, after Stone liberates the world the nobleman gets word from offworld - his eldest son and heir was killed fighting with the Coalition, gunned down after ejecting by MD.
With no heirs but a large amount of cash, he dedicates himself to revenge - approaching the new Republic garrison, made up of ComGuards who are considering joining Stone’s Republic or mustering out for a life of peace

Now, these former ComGuards are used as the lord’s personal agent of justice - hunting left over pockets of Blakists and the occasional hold outs.
They’ll keep hunting until the fortune dries up or the lord dies - either way, how do these vigilantes get along with the newly forming Republic and its “swords to ploughshears” policy and hostile neighbours concerned about armed troops jumping over their borders?


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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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So, as long as they have some backer, it is totally doable.... Thanks. As you have mentioned already, there is an organization to seek and destroy the hidden five as well, and it was one of the reason I think about some ex-ComStar element still hunger for bring justice.

Metallgewitter

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Woulrnd't IE also fall under this question? I mean they were hired by the Republic to search for the remaining Hidden worlds. And if the IE3 book is acurate Comstar's Explorer Corps seems to be active as well in the Republic era

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Sure it is also a case... except that it is backed by the republic.

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ComStar did a lot of their own private hunting for Word members after the Jihad. However, their goal was not to bring them to justice by any means. Instead, the goal was to 'disappear' them and absorb them into ComStar's ranks before the Republic (or anyone else) could get to them. This allowed ComStar to quietly sit on a lot of the Word's secrets and keep them for themselves, which allowed them in turn to do a few dirty things, such as building the new ComGuard, setting up the Lyuten base and other such acts.

The side effect of all this is that ComStar spent the next few decades quietly regressing to something that was publicly nice but privately much more core Blakeist.
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Nav_Alpha

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The side effect of all this is that ComStar spent the next few decades quietly regressing to something that was publicly nice but privately much more core Blakeist.

When you gaze into the abyss, sometimes the abyss gazes back...


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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Ah, that explains why they are lost their mind enough to make a neo blakist movement and rebuild so called 'ComGuard', mocking the ideal of Blake and Toyama again. Aren't they pay enough blood during Jihad to acknowledge that 'Word of Blake' is nothing but cancer within? It is no wonder that Republic simply absorbs ComStar elements in their area; it must be done.

Perhaps, is ComStar try to absorb WoB remnants because of the reaction against harsh Republic Formation Treaty that forcing too much for ComStar, much more than Mori and Focht initially planned? Even consider this the 'blessed order' is gone too far, though.

And it seems that ex-ComStar member that keep their vengeful spirit seems better at seek and destroy any possible WoB sects. They may cooperate with their brothers and sisters of ComStar after Jihad, though, but set apart from them will makes them free from the taint of WoB.

Cannonshop

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Ah, that explains why they are lost their mind enough to make a neo blakist movement and rebuild so called 'ComGuard', mocking the ideal of Blake and Toyama again. Aren't they pay enough blood during Jihad to acknowledge that 'Word of Blake' is nothing but cancer within? It is no wonder that Republic simply absorbs ComStar elements in their area; it must be done.

Perhaps, is ComStar try to absorb WoB remnants because of the reaction against harsh Republic Formation Treaty that forcing too much for ComStar, much more than Mori and Focht initially planned? Even consider this the 'blessed order' is gone too far, though.

And it seems that ex-ComStar member that keep their vengeful spirit seems better at seek and destroy any possible WoB sects. They may cooperate with their brothers and sisters of ComStar after Jihad, though, but set apart from them will makes them free from the taint of WoB.

You're running on an unclear assumption here.  All that blood, horror, and suffering?

They meant for that to happen.  The Republic itself was just a Word of Blake victory plan (check the borders and look at what the Republic treaties actually did.)

Devlin Stone was a Blakist plant, Comstar's schism was...less of an actual schism, and more of a false flag operation to purge the moderates.
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Ah, that explains why they are lost their mind enough to make a neo blakist movement and rebuild so called 'ComGuard', mocking the ideal of Blake and Toyama again. Aren't they pay enough blood during Jihad to acknowledge that 'Word of Blake' is nothing but cancer within? It is no wonder that Republic simply absorbs ComStar elements in their area; it must be done.

Perhaps, is ComStar try to absorb WoB remnants because of the reaction against harsh Republic Formation Treaty that forcing too much for ComStar, much more than Mori and Focht initially planned? Even consider this the 'blessed order' is gone too far, though.

And it seems that ex-ComStar member that keep their vengeful spirit seems better at seek and destroy any possible WoB sects. They may cooperate with their brothers and sisters of ComStar after Jihad, though, but set apart from them will makes them free from the taint of WoB.

Not even that.

The nice, friendly, decent ComStar of the 3050s and 60s? That's the aberration in ComStar's history. The Word is just their true face, who ComStar is with the mask off. The re-Blakeifciation wasn't any sort of reaction, but rather a reset as ComStar simply went back to business as normal.

If anything, the Jihad helped ComStar by getting all the truly openly insane people out in the open and giving the illusion that they were fully gone. Cameron St. Jamais and Apollyon are the real face of the organisation. Mori and Focht were outsiders.

ComStar can't be free of the Word's taint because the Word was always a part of ComStar. And it always will be.
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Colt Ward

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I want to say it is Wolf Hunters, but you do get a look at 3 (or 4?) DS worth of Blakists who disappeared on a Republic world into the boonies . . . and the locals knew about it.  IMO a rif on the 'stranded Japanese soldier' trope.
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Nav_Alpha

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I want to say it is Wolf Hunters, but you do get a look at 3 (or 4?) DS worth of Blakists who disappeared on a Republic world into the boonies . . . and the locals knew about it.  IMO a rif on the 'stranded Japanese soldier' trope.

Yep, a mix of original, second and even very young third generation Wobbies hiding out in the boonies of a former Republic (now Falcon) world.
They’re scratching out a hand scrabble existence and their equipment is falling apart, to the point where they’ve rigged natural traps - including boulders and landslides to deter outsiders.
From memory they’re low on ammo, with many weapons running with empty magazines or damaged components just left there.

The most amusing thing is they appear to have a split while in exile - half want to stay hidden, the other half want to come back into mainstream society.
They end up fighting over that for years until discovered by the mercs hired to clean them out.


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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Not even that.

The nice, friendly, decent ComStar of the 3050s and 60s? That's the aberration in ComStar's history. The Word is just their true face, who ComStar is with the mask off. The re-Blakeifciation wasn't any sort of reaction, but rather a reset as ComStar simply went back to business as normal.

If anything, the Jihad helped ComStar by getting all the truly openly insane people out in the open and giving the illusion that they were fully gone. Cameron St. Jamais and Apollyon are the real face of the organisation. Mori and Focht were outsiders.

ComStar can't be free of the Word's taint because the Word was always a part of ComStar. And it always will be.

Perhaps they are beyond redemption on the dark age, but they had a change at 3050s. If all of them are simply an another Blakiest, then why many of them are refused to follow Scorpion, why many of them are not left as well when their debauchee brothers and sisters, and why they are fight against Blakists and decimate themselves?

I think that there are still someone follow the standard, refused to fell into the trap what Blake and Toyama actually feared. Also the bitter fighting during Jihad will engrave enough enmity against their treacherous brothers and sisters. Someone already left ComStar just after Jihad can be free from their corruption again as well.

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Post-Jihad ComStar willingly and knowingly took Blakeists onboard, hid them within their ranks and allowed them to rise to positions of power. They deliberately chose this path, well aware of what direction it would lead the organisation in. And the people who made these decisions were those who had risen to power during the Focht and Mori years.

ComStar were never the Good Guys. They just seemed that way because the Word were out in the open.
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Frabby

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Post-Jihad ComStar willingly and knowingly took Blakeists onboard, hid them within their ranks and allowed them to rise to positions of power. They deliberately chose this path, well aware of what direction it would lead the organisation in. And the people who made these decisions were those who had risen to power during the Focht and Mori years.

ComStar were never the Good Guys. They just seemed that way because the Word were out in the open.
I think that oversimplifies the matter to the point of being wrong.

There is ComStar, the organisation; and there is the Word of Blake, an officially recognized religion that was ingrained within ComStar but technially was a separate institution.
You could presumably be working for ComStar without being a die-hard WoB acolyte though you probably wouldn't rise terribly high through the ranks, yet on the other hand the First Circuit in the earliest novels is mostly described as power mongers steeped in rituals but fully aware that their religion is a hoax designed to control their underlings, acting reasonably and secular, without religious fervor.
Conversely, you could follow the WoB religion without being an actual ComStar member.

Within ComStar there was a fault line between the religious and the secular pillars. Focht, regarded by many as an outsider to their klose-knit orgaisation (regardless of wether or not you actually believed in the religious parts), turned that fault line into a rift that shattered the organisation, with the Focht side painted as the seculars and the "others" - a disparate multitude of sub-groups - galvanizing around the religious because that was the natural opposite to Focht ComStar. Those formative years of the Word of Blake organisation (not religion) are on full display in the novel Ideal War. External pressure led to the most extreme leaders prevailing, in part because they literally murdered their way to the top, and that was how WoB became the organisation we saw emerge in the Jihad.

To wit, that extremist organisation of psychologically scarred and shell-shocked Tukayyid survivors was not the same as the Word of Blake religion that had existed before. But the former was then superimposed on the latter.

And that, then, led to the WoB "relapse" of ComStar which in turn led to its demise.
I never understood how Buhl could conceive of such a braindead agenda, but that's an entirely different story. In the context of this thread, what I'm trying to say is that yes, Word of Blake religion was always an integral part of ComStar but no, you must not confuse the Word of Blake religion with the post-schism organisation.
« Last Edit: 11 January 2021, 07:04:30 by Frabby »
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Nav_Alpha

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Hmmm.... that’s got me thinking about the actual Word as well.
Blane’s first in depth look was in the Paul Masters/Knights of the Inner Sphere novel, Ideal War. In that he doesn’t even seem particularly religious - more acknowledging going through the motions.
Later, you have St Jamias and Co. he doesn’t seem particularly devour in terms of worshiping toasters - more devoted to ensuring it was the Word running the universe because it knew best, could lead the IS out of the darkness.

I’ve said this before and I’ll keep saying it/playing it out in the game - if I grew up in the Chaos March, I’d gladly join up with the Word.
Imagine growing up in the patch of space no one has ever given a shit about as they conquer and re-conquer, regularly changing flags over your homeworld.
The Word comes in - it means jobs, non corrupt Planetary leadership, cleaning up the nuclear and biological stains lefts by centuries of war, infrastructure and security to keep all the other warring states out.
You can see why people joined in droves - not to worship machines, but because the Word said “we are the only way the universe is going to get fixed, you’ve seen the local example - so come on aboard and we’ll kill anyone who stands in our way!”

Sign me up, Adept.


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Colt Ward

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Perhaps they are beyond redemption on the dark age, but they had a change at 3050s. If all of them are simply an another Blakiest, then why many of them are refused to follow Scorpion, why many of them are not left as well when their debauchee brothers and sisters, and why they are fight against Blakists and decimate themselves?

I think that there are still someone follow the standard, refused to fell into the trap what Blake and Toyama actually feared. Also the bitter fighting during Jihad will engrave enough enmity against their treacherous brothers and sisters. Someone already left ComStar just after Jihad can be free from their corruption again as well.

Yeah, Frabby is quite right- it is a oversimplication.

I want to be very careful saying this as I am a religious person, BUT . . . when folks say the IRL historical comparison is late Middle Ages or early Renaissance periods Catholic Church they say that for quite appropriate historically proven reasons.  I do not feel I can go further without violating the board rules, if you really want to ask PM.  Other comparisons would be to the USSR, but again that veers into forum rules and best for PMs.  I will say his 3rd paragraph would be about almost any organization due to human nature.

Nav_Alpha is also right, and this is portrayed through a series of BC stories- Op Guerrero created a fervent recruiting ground for Word of Blake.  Those reasons are why the Protectorate Militia was treated differently than WoBM or Shadow divisions.  It was also why for the most part the planets were accepting of ending up in Stone's Republic.

As far as MWDA ComStar . . . Tucker liked listening to old ComStar chants!  They were sold in ComStar gift shops at the HPGs!
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Metallgewitter

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As far as MWDA ComStar . . . Tucker liked listening to old ComStar chants!  They were sold in ComStar gift shops at the HPGs!

And to top that of those weren't simple chants. Those were the actual instructions to work on the HPG but in Latin as far as i remember. Comstar used the language of a church (in this case the Christian church) to make their tech support sound biblical  :P

Frabby

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It has long been suspected by fans and was finally confirmed in canon that Blake and Toyama deliberately turned a fad into a religion, because they believed it would endure the coming storm better. If that sounded crazy, unbelievable and unworkable, let's just say real life has vindicated the idea since.
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