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Author Topic: House Battlemechs ownership  (Read 2291 times)

CJC070

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Re: House Battlemechs ownership
« Reply #30 on: 19 October 2021, 14:05:33 »
Well, I'd love to see the day that all 8 Crucis Lancers RCTs and all 8 Davion Guards RCTs are alive and kicking, but I won't hold my breath.  Seems like the universe was set in motion with House Davion in pole position if you think back to the original 5 House Sourcebooks in the 80s.  I don't think TPTB want to have a top dog house again.  We keep seeing houses getting propped up and knocked back down, and I'm starting to believe we're about to see the Combine and the Confederation be the next two houses to be introduced to the DoomHammer.

We may see more LCT since the developers and writers are pointing towards more company and battalion sized invasions rather than regimental. 

Rainbow 6

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Re: House Battlemechs ownership
« Reply #31 on: 19 October 2021, 14:47:10 »
Speaking of which, with the fall of the republic, when does the AFFS get the Fox's Teeth back?  :)

Wouldn't mind seeing Sorenson's Sabres back as well.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: House Battlemechs ownership
« Reply #32 on: 19 October 2021, 16:57:04 »
Well, I'd love to see the day that all 8 Crucis Lancers RCTs and all 8 Davion Guards RCTs are alive and kicking, but I won't hold my breath.  Seems like the universe was set in motion with House Davion in pole position if you think back to the original 5 House Sourcebooks in the 80s.  I don't think TPTB want to have a top dog house again.  We keep seeing houses getting propped up and knocked back down, and I'm starting to believe we're about to see the Combine and the Confederation be the next two houses to be introduced to the DoomHammer.
9 Davion Guard units now, with the addition of the Dawn Guards!  (Unless they become the new 2nd or 3rd Guard.)

Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

Metallgewitter

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Re: House Battlemechs ownership
« Reply #33 on: 20 October 2021, 02:28:50 »
A more topic-oriented question: if a noble enters the army with his Mech in let's say after the war of 3039. The Mech is a well maintained SW spec Warhammer (for example). After that war the tech renaissance started with thew unlocking of SL era weapons.  So who would be responsible for any upgrades (say Double heat sinks). Would the state offer those upgrades or would the owner of the Mech be responsible for the upgrades? I mean a house soldier is not a Merc who has to pay for upgrade kits (or gets them awarded)

The Wobbly Guy

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Re: House Battlemechs ownership
« Reply #34 on: 20 October 2021, 03:06:14 »
Could be a co-pay system, in exchange for service years to the state. The more the state pays for the upgrade, the longer the noble or his family has to serve, especially on the frontlines. Or perhaps give up certain salvage shares in advance.

Lots of ways and room for both sides to negotiate.

Middcore

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Re: House Battlemechs ownership
« Reply #35 on: 20 October 2021, 08:55:20 »
A more topic-oriented question: if a noble enters the army with his Mech in let's say after the war of 3039. The Mech is a well maintained SW spec Warhammer (for example). After that war the tech renaissance started with thew unlocking of SL era weapons.  So who would be responsible for any upgrades (say Double heat sinks). Would the state offer those upgrades or would the owner of the Mech be responsible for the upgrades? I mean a house soldier is not a Merc who has to pay for upgrade kits (or gets them awarded)

My take would be that if the unit is in line to get those upgrades, the "personal" 'Mech is getting them too, on the House's dime. I don't even think any cost-sharing/repayment negotiation would happen. We're probably talking about a warrior whose family has served the House faithfully for generations, after all, good chance they're some level of nobility and therefore part of the power structure. There's very little chance they'll be like "Thanks for the double heat sinks, suckers, now I'm off to Outreach!" The guy or gal who brings a family 'Mech is already doing the procurement department a bit of a favor by reducing the number of state-owned machines they have to assign from new production or overhaul by one.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: House Battlemechs ownership
« Reply #36 on: 20 October 2021, 16:22:52 »
i would assume that only the higher nobility in the 30's/40's, or those being sent to the clan front with a major unit in the 50's, would get a straight up upgrade right away. otherwise i would assume that it would be refit when it gets damaged and needs repaired (since it'll be in the repair bays anyway) or when the whole unit is called in for an upgrade as part of army modernization efforts later in the 50's.

i agree though that the cost of the refit is probably going to be covered by the state in most cases. though i wouldn't be surprised if it didn't come with the expectation of an additional term of service if it occurs late enough in the warrior's existing term. a warrior that decides to muster out anyway may end up having to pay off the refit costs in installments tacked on to their estate's taxes.

that said, i could see a family paying for a refit out of their own pockets if they desire a specific type of refit.. a state funded refit would be dictated by the state, and that may or may not be a good thing, especially in the 3040's and 3050's, where questionable refits abounded. if your family mech was a TDR-5S thunderbolt in steiner service, the state would probably want to refit it to the TDR-9S standard (getting rid of most of its long range firepower) but the family might want the superior (and more advanced) TDR-7M version instead.

R.Tempest

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Re: House Battlemechs ownership
« Reply #37 on: 20 October 2021, 23:53:23 »
 Some refits would have to be handled by the House, but probably not at the expense of the warrior in question. Feudal obligations run both ways (ideally) & minor upgrades are the sort of thing you provide to your vassals.
 Major upgrades may be more problematic. Upgrading the Warhammer to double heat sinks is not as straightforward as it sounds. Most of those heat sinks are integral to the engine so it would require an engine replacement (or at least a rebuild). But if the whole unit was being upgraded then the privately owned mech would be included as a matter of course.
 Indeed, it may make more sense to simply say "Your family has served well for many years in that Warhammer but it is getting outdated. To honor you for your service we're rewarding you with this brand new Warhammer with all the current upgrades to replace the old one. May it serve your family well for many more generations."
 Now, the warrior in question may have to make arrangements for his household tech's to get trained on the new equipment but that could be negotiated. It may be that, as part of the feudal obligation, the warrior provides a tech or two to maintain his mech. If the unit as a whole is getting upgraded then there obviously would have to be tech re-training as part of the unit upgrade and they would get the training then. But if the tech's are not part of the required service then they would have to get seperate training - probably at the warriors expense.

SCC

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Re: House Battlemechs ownership
« Reply #38 on: 26 October 2021, 00:36:19 »
Now your first question, about ownership papers, well in theory they exist but given how often 'Mechs cross national boundaries about the only organizations that could enforce them are the SL and C*, and even then they're probably not that useful. Consider Daniel Allard during the Silver Eagle incident, he's a FedSuns citizen in the employ of a Lyran merc company raiding a Kuritian space, if his 'Mech gets captured that title isn't worth very much now, is it?

Now as for who owns the 'Mechs in House forces, well FASA didn't seem to do the research before designing the BT universe so things are a mess. First of all it's not a binary situation with who owns the 'Mechs, it's a trinary one, there's the privately owned 'Mechs, the state owned ones, and finally the noble owned ones, with a lot of overlap between the first and last. If I (Or my family) privately own a 'Mech, why would I sign myself and my 'Mech up with one of the house militaries? And why would they accept me? And what happens when my 'Mech is destroyed?

Now noble owned 'Mechs are where things get really muddy,  and historically these worked on a deal along the lines of "I give you this fancy title and these lands to rule over and tax and in return you furnish me with at least X military forces at least every Y time units out of Z time units" and these are called feudal levy and it's the responsibility to the lord who supplies them to pay all costs associated with them. Now in real world history the these could be demanded for for a varying amount of time per year, anywhere from 40 days to a campaigning season, in BT I'm going to assume that it's 1 year in 5, but it can be done in multiples.

Now this all seems like a great deal for the central government but you don't want to actually be using these feudal levies for a few reasons:
1. They owe their loyalty to whoever raised them, NOT the central government.
2. Their built to operate as independent units, not as part of a whole. Take McKinnon's Company, their not a recon company, a fire support company, or built to operate as part of a larger force. As a further example if you call 3 lords to your banner, each is obligated to provide a company each, you group them together to form a battalion, but each provides a recon lance, a battle lance, and a fire support lance, you can't group the recon lances together to form a recon company, it's not the way the system works.
3. You only get them for a limited amount of time each interval. Say the Davidson family is sworn the the FedSuns for one 'Mech and then one day they get a note saying that they need to provide the services of that 'Mech for the next 3 years, well after those 3 years are up for the next 12 years they can't be called to the FedSuns banner, you only want to call these people up when you really need them, not for minor stuff.
4. You know those planetary militia's that get mentioned from time to time? Well these guys make them up.

Now I mentioned McKinnon's Company before, and they seem to operate under a different set of rules, where in exchange for their noble titles they furnish the FedSuns with 12 'Mechs and Warriors, but I wouldn't call that owning those 'Mechs now, would you?

BirdDog

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Re: House Battlemechs ownership
« Reply #39 on: 27 October 2021, 11:16:33 »
I can't see any reason for House MechWarriors who bring their own 'Mech to get paid more unless they're also bringing their own retinue of technical support to maintain the personally-owned machine.

Could be a "wear and tear" thing as well.  I worked for a lawncare company and the techs drove company vehicles, but the salesreps drove their own cars and got mileage + gas reimbursement on top of their normal rate.

Could be something similar - Using House equipment means you don't need to worry about normal wear and tear (or even combat repairs) - the military takes care of it.  But if it's your own mech, you'd be on the hook for it, and likely wouldn't want to stick around/re-enlist/whatever if it became too expensive, so the military throws you a few extra C-bills as incentive and to help offset/cover those costs.


EDIT: It's not a canon story or anything but the Battletech: 3000 collaborative story had a lot of this in it, which I always found fascinating.  Some of the warriors owned their mechs, others were assigned - House-owned mechs could be modified as long as the modifications were approved, but pilots had to pay for it if they owned the mech.  There was one exception where a privately-owned mech was modified on the AFFS' dime because the company commander was able to persuade TPTB that the modifications were beneficial to the whole unit.
« Last Edit: 27 October 2021, 11:18:31 by BirdDog »

 

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