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Author Topic: Inner Sphere warships not sink but inoperative in succession wars era?  (Read 1272 times)

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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I was initially think that every single warships in Inner Sphere, save for the grasp of ComStar, are just sunk during the succession wars era. But is there some warships survives the era, but have to be mothballed due to its maintenance issue and no longer able to use it as a functional warship until Scorpion? Can they revived as the functional warship again after Scorpion if its owners are able to spend enough resource to it? Also is it conflicts with the official fluff for warships in Inner Sphere?

mikecj

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Yes, Kurita has a Samarkand-class carrier Togura which barely serves as a museum piece orbiting
New Samarkand. TRO 3075 p216
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2ndAcr

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 Canon the Combine had several Destroyers in mothballs that they tried to bring back to life around the Clan invasion, but they were too far gone. The Fed Suns might have some "wrecks" around Cholame, where the AFFS and DCMS fought their massive naval battle during the 1st SW.

 It is also canon that both the WoB and FWL went on a great scavenger hunt and recovered quite a few warships from around the Inner Sphere. So, they are out there to be found.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Thanks. Then so long as it isn't functional as a proper warship, it would be fine. Although most of them are not expected to bring back life either.

glitterboy2098

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iirc didn't Dr. Banzai find a "combat jumpship" for the Fedsuns as part of his bid to get a position in the NAIS? i've often wondered if that meant something like a Tracker (a warship designed to pass itself off as a standard jumpship)

and the Taurians had a Vincent corvette, the Vandenberg, that still had working drives.. unfortunately that was about all that worked, and the thing was so beat up they couldn't repair the armor and weapons until the 3060's.
« Last Edit: 19 January 2021, 02:26:54 by glitterboy2098 »

Frabby

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Just to keep their skills sharp, ComStar designed the Dante-class from scratch and built three of them.
And we can never know how many concealed surveillance ships (Bug-Eye, Tracker, etc.) were being used.

Finally, Wolf's Dragoons technically had a stash of vintage WarShips just on the edge of the Inner Sphere during the tail end of the Succession Wars period.
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Metallgewitter

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There is also the Invincible that misjumped after it's last battle over Hesperus 2 and was recovered (or stolen) by Comstar and then stationed in one of Comstar's secret fleet bases. And of course there is the Tripitz which was floating somewhere in Taurian space. In the SL Cicivl war book it is mentioned that Kerensky contructed several hidden fleet bases to maintain his entire fleet and that everal are still hidden. So who knows what those bases still hold

Alexander Knight

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Davion had a single New Syrtis-class ship survive as a museum with a broken back.

Dayton3

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People ignore the obvious about warships in the Battletech universe.

1) From an in universe perspective it really doesn't matter if one side has some warships or not.   As we've seen in real life,  we have several countries on Earth that have a single aircraft carrier.   But they are basically only for national pride and for show.   A single carrier isn't a viable projectable military force.    You really need at least two or three,  plus a bunch of escorts,   supply vessels,  and et cetera.    The same way with one of the Successor states having one, two, or three or four major warships.

2) But in terms of "game balance" it would make a huge amount of difference.   And BT has always been about maintaining "game balance".   Which is why you NEVER see some new weapons technology suddenly making a staggering difference on the battlefield.

If one side had a usable warship game balance would be gone.   The Draconis Combine could show up with 12 Jumpships,  50 Dropships and invade Robinson with a bunch of regiments....and the single warship from the Federated Suns side shows up and blows them all away.

Daryk

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For ships, it's three to make one (two to make one is for aircraft): one deployed, one working up, and one in the shipyard fixing everything that broke on deployment.  Workups take TIME.

Stormlion1

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People ignore the obvious about warships in the Battletech universe.

1) From an in universe perspective it really doesn't matter if one side has some warships or not.   As we've seen in real life,  we have several countries on Earth that have a single aircraft carrier.   But they are basically only for national pride and for show.   A single carrier isn't a viable projectable military force.    You really need at least two or three,  plus a bunch of escorts,   supply vessels,  and et cetera.    The same way with one of the Successor states having one, two, or three or four major warships.

2) But in terms of "game balance" it would make a huge amount of difference.   And BT has always been about maintaining "game balance".   Which is why you NEVER see some new weapons technology suddenly making a staggering difference on the battlefield.

If one side had a usable warship game balance would be gone.   The Draconis Combine could show up with 12 Jumpships,  50 Dropships and invade Robinson with a bunch of regiments....and the single warship from the Federated Suns side shows up and blows them all away.

That's the thing. There just are not enough warships to cover a Successor State. That one warship? It could be halfway across the state or be up against pocket warships. Or worse, the invasion fleet could have a large number of dropship CV's with lots of nuke armed Aerospace fighters. In many ways warships only truly work as fleet units or as a transport for RCT's to also give them fire support and bot to repel a invasion. The other option is a warship, like a Avalon Cruiser packing a full spread of Pocket Warships to defend a critical world.
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Daryk

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Space combat really comes down to how many nukes you can deliver at once.  That's why carriers rule.

Dayton3

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Space combat really comes down to how many nukes you can deliver at once.  That's why carriers rule.

However it helps to note that as far as is known,  nuclear weapons detonated in space are not remotely as damaging as those detonated in an atmosphere.

2ndAcr

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 Thats why the nuclear armed missiles penetrate the armor before detonating or deep into it.

Daryk

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And it really only takes one of those...

Wrangler

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If were talking without Fiat sabotaging any attempts to actual salvage anything. 
Like the others said,

FedSuns has the New Sytris carrier, which last time i check still exists (maybe abandon wreck 3067, it's retcon as far it existing due to the 2nd Succession War source book.)

Kurita has crippled Samarkand-class carrier Togura, 3 destroyers they ended up scrapping later were in "mothballs" because they were high maintenance. They by then had shiny new fleet when they did it.

Lyrans = Zippo
Capella = Zippo
Free Worlds League = Known Wrecks, ultimately salvaged via WoB, but none actively known to exist.  Such as SLS Nelson (Black Lion II Battlecruiser, an Aegis Heavy Cruiser)
Canopus = Zippo
Outworlds = Zippo
Taurian Concordat = Vincent Mk 39 (It was hidden mothballed unit, but this may have been retconned out existence)
Free Rasalhague Republic = Zippo
ComStar = At least 3 Active (Dante-Class Frigates), not counting Farlane Yardships (warship, but for repair stuff) good 3 dozen at LEAST mothballed Warships, never mind cache else where.

2ndAcr made point there maybe wrecks floating around in "wrecks" around Cholame,  However, CGL likely arrange fluff demise to those.  No hope for those who like big stuff lurking in the night.
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Wrangler

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People ignore the obvious about warships in the Battletech universe.
1) From an in universe perspective it really doesn't matter if one side has some warships or not.   As we've seen in real life,  we have several countries on Earth that have a single aircraft carrier.   But they are basically only for national pride and for show.   A single carrier isn't a viable projectable military force.    You really need at least two or three,  plus a bunch of escorts,   supply vessels,  and et cetera.    The same way with one of the Successor states having one, two, or three or four major warships.

2) But in terms of "game balance" it would make a huge amount of difference.   And BT has always been about maintaining "game balance".   Which is why you NEVER see some new weapons technology suddenly making a staggering difference on the battlefield.

If one side had a usable warship game balance would be gone.   The Draconis Combine could show up with 12 Jumpships,  50 Dropships and invade Robinson with a bunch of regiments....and the single warship from the Federated Suns side shows up and blows them all away.
Not directed at you, just this problem.
*Rant Starts*
People also forget, Warship can't land on a planet and claim it either. They can contest landings, yep blow them up on ground. However, they still do much more than that.

There other ways to establish game balance.  Its just marketing point now, warships not popular with stompy robot game.  Which i think is stupid.  Were gaming universe for gaud sakes.  Everything can made to fit in, no fun having 1 warship per faction.  Having sent a fleet of them, defending against another while you land army to hold world is more logical.  Steady production of ships be more make less likely your going hide your darn Warships since their over priced.   
*Stops rant*
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glitterboy2098

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Taurian Concordat = Vincent Mk 39 (It was hidden mothballed unit, but this may have been retconned out existence)
they started a refit to bring it into service on it in the 3060's with Capellan help, so probably won't be retconned. but it basically was inoperable between the 2500's and the 3060's.

Wrangler

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they started a refit to bring it into service on it in the 3060's with Capellan help, so probably won't be retconned. but it basically was inoperable between the 2500's and the 3060's.
Right, but its virtually disappeared with no sign of it fluff wise. It's like it didn't exist.
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"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
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PsihoKekec

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Wobies helped them with refit, enabling them to nuke multiple FS worlds. It was heavily damaged again and put into mothballs again.
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Metallgewitter

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Wobies helped them with refit, enabling them to nuke multiple FS worlds. It was heavily damaged again and put into mothballs again.

Uhm no that was the TCS Vendetta a Quixote warship which was gifted by to the Concordat by the Blakists. The Vendetta was heavily damaged over Firgrove after jumping into a minefield and then being bombarded by capital weapons. It was repaired but then given to the Calderon Protectorate and renamed to TPS Redemption due to the peace brokered by the Protectorate. The Vandenberg seems to be completly written out of history

beachhead1985

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Taurian Concordat = Vincent Mk 39 (It was hidden mothballed unit, but this may have been retconned out existence)


Uhm no that was the TCS Vendetta a Quixote warship which was gifted by to the Concordat by the Blakists. The Vendetta was heavily damaged over Firgrove after jumping into a minefield and then being bombarded by capital weapons. It was repaired but then given to the Calderon Protectorate and renamed to TPS Redemption due to the peace brokered by the Protectorate. The Vandenberg seems to be completly written out of history

Yeah, surely this is a mistake and you mean the Quixote-Class Vandenberg. I would be very interested in a source for a Mk39 in the TC for my own purposes.
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Metallgewitter

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The only thing I found about the TCw Vandenburg was in the FM Major Periphery States. It says that this ship was a "survivor" of the Reunification war and was kept hidden in the nebula. As of 3067 the rapirs and upgrades were still continuing. So they either never finished this task or maybe the shipwas destroyed by whatever happened during the Jihad. Remember the Roughriders were rampaging through Concordat space and maybe they nuked the ship to oblivion. Afte all a not functioning Warship makes for perfect target practice

2ndAcr

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Only other source is Sarna which points to a few items as their source.

truetanker

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I'd say she's still there, just really damaged, maybe roll on critical systems for every location and highest one is the winner?

Then go at it from there... using the systems negatives at the pre-rolled positions to play. Like the old Armor damage rolls...

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Wrangler

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Finding the Vandenburg sounds like nice caper for merc group following leads to hidden forgotten treasure.  Engine still work...entire astroid moves, having recharged batteries and jump the ship and rock with them.  Misadventure ensue.
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beachhead1985

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The only thing I found about the TCw Vandenburg was in the FM Major Periphery States. It says that this ship was a "survivor" of the Reunification war and was kept hidden in the nebula. As of 3067 the rapirs and upgrades were still continuing. So they either never finished this task or maybe the shipwas destroyed by whatever happened during the Jihad. Remember the Roughriders were rampaging through Concordat space and maybe they nuked the ship to oblivion. Afte all a not functioning Warship makes for perfect target practice

Well dang.

Good enough.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

 

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