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Author Topic: IS Police Forces?  (Read 9391 times)

SCC

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #120 on: 26 October 2021, 00:40:16 »
One key thing to remember when assessing 'Mechs for non-combat roles is: Does it make sense that it's being used? A lot of mecha settings just use mecha whenever without thinking about does it make sense to do this, and this can make people walk away. As an example modern trucks weigh 40 tons, carry 20 tons of cargo, and can move at least 100 km per hour, so unless your cargo 'Mech design can match this it won't exist in universe.

RifleMech

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #121 on: 26 October 2021, 02:14:44 »
The Uni says otherwise. 
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Uni

It isn't just about what Mechs can do but where they can go. That truck is limited by terrain a lot more than a mech is.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #122 on: 26 October 2021, 04:05:39 »
Most of the police units we have stats for are riot infantry, which tend to use things like shotguns, stunsticks, tranq guns, riot shields (so what do those provide in TW scale?), etc.

It did make me wonder, though...what would your standard police officer be carrying?  Do you give them a slug-thrower pistol, which might punch a hole through their target, or a laser pistol, which, well, causes part of them to potentially asplode as the water in their flesh boils?  Stunstick replaces the nightstick/tonfa, and sonic stunners in place of where modern police might use tasers.  A pump shotgun with the option for less-lethal rounds seems an obvious choice, like it is today,

As for bigger stuff, like SecurityMechs...does anyone else remember the arcade game ESWAT?  There was a version for the Sega Genesis, too.  In it, beyond the SWAT team's special weapons and tactics were power-armor equipped police with "Extra Special Weapons and Tactics".  Any SecurityMech-equipped or PA(L)-equipped police would most certainly fall under one of those two camps, and would be comparatively rarer than the other types of police.
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RifleMech

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #123 on: 27 October 2021, 07:45:17 »
Most of the police units we have stats for are riot infantry, which tend to use things like shotguns, stunsticks, tranq guns, riot shields (so what do those provide in TW scale?), etc.

Riot Shields don't do anything. I would have thought it'd give them a damage divisor or something, like armor, but it doesn't. :(


Quote
It did make me wonder, though...what would your standard police officer be carrying?  Do you give them a slug-thrower pistol, which might punch a hole through their target, or a laser pistol, which, well, causes part of them to potentially asplode as the water in their flesh boils?  Stunstick replaces the nightstick/tonfa, and sonic stunners in place of where modern police might use tasers.  A pump shotgun with the option for less-lethal rounds seems an obvious choice, like it is today,

Depends on the department but I think slug throwers would be common. It does make me wonder though if infantry energy weapons can be dialed down to 0 like vehicle scale weapons.


Quote
As for bigger stuff, like SecurityMechs...does anyone else remember the arcade game ESWAT?  There was a version for the Sega Genesis, too.  In it, beyond the SWAT team's special weapons and tactics were power-armor equipped police with "Extra Special Weapons and Tactics".  Any SecurityMech-equipped or PA(L)-equipped police would most certainly fall under one of those two camps, and would be comparatively rarer than the other types of police.

First I've seen it. Sounds fun though. :)  Mostly I think of mech using police I think of Patlabor, Dominion: Tank Police, Bubble Gun Crisis/AD Police's AD Police and Macross 7's; Police Department. Police using BA/PAL would fall under those used by the AD Police.

Daryk

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #124 on: 27 October 2021, 18:18:38 »
Don't forget Appleseed...  8)

BrianDavion

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #125 on: 13 December 2021, 11:56:40 »
I tend to assume your standard police unit would be armed depending on the world. on a rich prosperous world like New Avalon you might be able to get away with your average beat cop being unarmed ala English Police (that said at the same time those police departments are likely better funded and thus may be able to afford some "useless toys" like secruity mechs that only get brought out for parades) . obviously that won't fly out in the fedsuns backwaters. where you'd likely be dealing with a lot of small communities who by necessity are armed themselves.

the Inner Sphere's a big place,  and even in a single sucessor state you're going to have a wide degree on how civilized and easy to police the worlds are

Hellraiser

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #126 on: 16 December 2021, 10:59:23 »
I just realized, the Piranha isn't there to slaughter entire battalions of infantry every 10 seconds.

It's how the Clanners keep those rebellious populations of oppressed Laborer Caste in mid revolt.

But since it would be wasteful to just murder them, production would fall off after all,  they load them up with Gel/Rubber bullets.

Like a million little "bean bag" rounds, a swarm of "hornet stings", guaranteed to break up any pesky revolt & get them back to work the very next day.
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Dreadpool

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #127 on: 14 March 2022, 01:48:08 »
"In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups. The police who investigate crime and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m92tuqthJw

Dreadpool

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #128 on: 14 March 2022, 01:50:38 »

Kovax

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #129 on: 22 March 2022, 14:37:20 »
i could picture a mere handful of Battlemechs in police hands for an entire planet, and perhaps a couple of (as in 1-4) Security 'Mechs in the hands of any major city police force, as well as a lance or two of armored vehicles, but not much beyond that.  Some special cases will require more, some won't need even that much.  The vast majority of the vehicles and equipment are going to be a combination of anti-infantry and non-lethal weapons, and vehicles with a BAR rating sufficient to stop small arms fire, no more.  'Mechs in police hands would be RARE, but not completely absent on most planets.  As pointed out, a 'Mech with hands has a lot more utility than as just a gun platform, although it doesn't often take a "Battle"Mech to do the job.

Anything more than some nutcase in an unconverted Industrial Mech is going to warrant a call to the planetary militia, or to the overlord of the planet with a personal retinue of military "toys".  Military threats require a military response.

RifleMech

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #130 on: 22 March 2022, 15:45:25 »
I think how many mechs being used by police depends on the planet and the population. I think Avalon would have more PoliceMechs than Trell. If anything like Patlabor, a large metropolitan area might have a lance or two. SV1 had at least 2 and SV2 had 3. And that was just the Tokyo area. New York also had their own version and I'm sure other countries and large city areas would have too. So the numbers could vary. Patlabor also didn't have to deal with Mercenaries owning military equipment. (Although there was those criminals with an advanced labor.) That could up the police's response factor to using BattleMechs rather than SecurityMechs. It all depends though.

BrianDavion

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #131 on: 22 March 2022, 17:04:10 »
i could picture a mere handful of Battlemechs in police hands for an entire planet, and perhaps a couple of (as in 1-4) Security 'Mechs in the hands of any major city police force, as well as a lance or two of armored vehicles, but not much beyond that.  Some special cases will require more, some won't need even that much.  The vast majority of the vehicles and equipment are going to be a combination of anti-infantry and non-lethal weapons, and vehicles with a BAR rating sufficient to stop small arms fire, no more.  'Mechs in police hands would be RARE, but not completely absent on most planets.  As pointed out, a 'Mech with hands has a lot more utility than as just a gun platform, although it doesn't often take a "Battle"Mech to do the job.

Anything more than some nutcase in an unconverted Industrial Mech is going to warrant a call to the planetary militia, or to the overlord of the planet with a personal retinue of military "toys".  Military threats require a military response.

agreed. I can't think of any good reason for a police force to bother with BATTLEMECHS, riot control duty in battlemechs is HATED by mechwarriors and civilian alike.

glitterboy2098

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #132 on: 22 March 2022, 23:27:29 »
we know a couple worlds have them though, Solaris VII for example, but even there they're generally lighter designs and modified for more non-lethals. (plus lets be honest, Solaris VII has more reason than most worlds to need a branch of the police department able to take on rampaging battlemechs)

most worlds though i suspect wouldn't have battlemechs, and wouldn't even have all that many security mechs either.

RifleMech

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #133 on: 23 March 2022, 03:55:32 »
agreed. I can't think of any good reason for a police force to bother with BATTLEMECHS, riot control duty in battlemechs is HATED by mechwarriors and civilian alike.

Police Forces use BattleMechs because BattleMechs are often more available than security mechs. I can easily see Police using BugMechs. Rubber Bullets in the MGs, powered down lasers, Missiles with Tear Gas or Smoke. They're not that different from the Copper SecurityMech. That's plenty deal with rioters and still powerful enough to take on more heavily armored targets. I think your average police mechwarrior would rather deal with rioters than pirates.


we know a couple worlds have them though, Solaris VII for example, but even there they're generally lighter designs and modified for more non-lethals. (plus lets be honest, Solaris VII has more reason than most worlds to need a branch of the police department able to take on rampaging battlemechs)

most worlds though i suspect wouldn't have battlemechs, and wouldn't even have all that many security mechs either.

Solaris VII is a good example of a planet's police force needing Mechs.

Probably not. Especially post Succession Wars. During the Star League Era though mechs were more plentiful so I could see more planets having them.

CJC070

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #134 on: 23 March 2022, 08:56:46 »
Police Forces use BattleMechs because BattleMechs are often more available than security mechs. I can easily see Police using BugMechs. Rubber Bullets in the MGs, powered down lasers, Missiles with Tear Gas or Smoke. They're not that different from the Copper SecurityMech. That's plenty deal with rioters and still powerful enough to take on more heavily armored targets. I think your average police mechwarrior would rather deal with rioters than pirates.


I wonder how hard it would be to replace a flamethrower with a water hose.

AlphaMirage

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #135 on: 23 March 2022, 09:16:58 »
Fluid Guns have both inferno and water ammo options (and fire-resistant or oil too, so many fun options)

CVB

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #136 on: 23 March 2022, 12:14:03 »
The prevalence of police 'mech forces would very much depend on the era. During the late SWs, when a company or even a lance could take over a planet, or during Stone's swords to ploughshares period of Clicktech, when one Battlemech, a Cherrypicker Indy, a sewer cleaning truck and a biker gang were a credible invasion force, there couldn't be at  the same time multiple, multi-lance metropolitan 'mech police forces on an average planet, or most invasions would have to be rewritten in the historicals.
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Colt Ward

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #137 on: 23 March 2022, 12:22:15 »
What some folks seem to be forgetting is this is BTU, where they do everything they can with a mech even if it makes more sense to do it with a truck or construction/engineering vehicle.  ConstructionMechs that take the place of dozers, graders, backhoes, cranes, and dump trucks.  MiningMechs that replace drilling rigs, blast equipment, and boring machines as well as the dump trucks or even rail systems that remove the ore.  LoaderMechs for space ports and blue water ports that replace cranes, forklifts, and almost any other method of moving cargo containers.

Police got cars when cars and trucks became common place.  Police get mechs when mechs become common place- which also counts for Battle Armor after the 3060s.
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RifleMech

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #138 on: 23 March 2022, 15:48:59 »
I wonder how hard it would be to replace a flamethrower with a water hose.

It shouldn't be too hard but if you had a Vehicle Flamer, all you'd need to do is swap ammo.  ;)



The prevalence of police 'mech forces would very much depend on the era. During the late SWs, when a company or even a lance could take over a planet, or during Stone's swords to ploughshares period of Clicktech, when one Battlemech, a Cherrypicker Indy, a sewer cleaning truck and a biker gang were a credible invasion force, there couldn't be at  the same time multiple, multi-lance metropolitan 'mech police forces on an average planet, or most invasions would have to be rewritten in the historicals.

Agreed.


What some folks seem to be forgetting is this is BTU, where they do everything they can with a mech even if it makes more sense to do it with a truck or construction/engineering vehicle.  ConstructionMechs that take the place of dozers, graders, backhoes, cranes, and dump trucks.  MiningMechs that replace drilling rigs, blast equipment, and boring machines as well as the dump trucks or even rail systems that remove the ore.  LoaderMechs for space ports and blue water ports that replace cranes, forklifts, and almost any other method of moving cargo containers.

Police got cars when cars and trucks became common place.  Police get mechs when mechs become common place- which also counts for Battle Armor after the 3060s.


I haven't forgotten. I wish for more TROs like TRO:VA or to at least have a "Civilian" section in future TROs. Many "Civilian" mechs would have military applications too, without becoming technicals.

Vi Letalis

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #139 on: 25 March 2022, 10:43:20 »
The prevalence of police 'mech forces would very much depend on the era. During the late SWs, when a company or even a lance could take over a planet, or during Stone's swords to ploughshares period of Clicktech, when one Battlemech, a Cherrypicker Indy, a sewer cleaning truck and a biker gang were a credible invasion force, there couldn't be at  the same time multiple, multi-lance metropolitan 'mech police forces on an average planet, or most invasions would have to be rewritten in the historicals.

I think the main issue here is that like most sci-fi space opera settings they are shit at scaling military forces for vast interstellar powers. The local forces should be able to put out tens or hundreds of thousands of troops on any world with a population of millions. I only buy it if it's planets on the edge of a house's influence or in the periphery. A light mech here and there for SWAT type duties is more than reasonable, and Atreus City had like a company of Police Mechs at the start of the Jihad.

Mechs also seem terrible for riot control and the rubber bullet/tear gas SRM lore doesn't sit right considering MGs in BT are more like .50 cal to 20mm rather than real life 40mm baton guns, plus firing down at heads means it isn't even close to less than lethal at that point. Operationally it makes sense to me that police mechs are literally only there for SWAT type operations where heavier equipment is in use and they need something more substantial than APCs and rifles.

RifleMech

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #140 on: 25 March 2022, 14:45:29 »
I think the main issue here is that like most sci-fi space opera settings they are shit at scaling military forces for vast interstellar powers. The local forces should be able to put out tens or hundreds of thousands of troops on any world with a population of millions. I only buy it if it's planets on the edge of a house's influence or in the periphery. A light mech here and there for SWAT type duties is more than reasonable, and Atreus City had like a company of Police Mechs at the start of the Jihad.

Mechs also seem terrible for riot control and the rubber bullet/tear gas SRM lore doesn't sit right considering MGs in BT are more like .50 cal to 20mm rather than real life 40mm baton guns, plus firing down at heads means it isn't even close to less than lethal at that point. Operationally it makes sense to me that police mechs are literally only there for SWAT type operations where heavier equipment is in use and they need something more substantial than APCs and rifles.

I can see how Mechs would work for Riot Control. There's a Mech's size to start. They're big and intimidating. Their height also allows them to respond to situations at higher elevations than foot police could. They also have a wider field of view than those down on the ground so they can direct police and other emergency units around as needed. They're also less vulnerable than infantry (police). Less so than police cars too. They can also get around obstacles that would block other police vehicles.

Firing Machine Guns with rubber bullets up to 30mm probably isn't that non-lethal but the amount of propellant could be reduced. Beanbags being fired wouldn't surprise me either, although that'd be a house rule. Of course vehicle flamers, fluid guns, and sprayers could fire water. to break up crowds. They could also put out any fires started. Missiles, Mortars, and VGLs firing smoke and tear gas could also break up crowds. Police already use smoke and tear gas. These are just larger versions. So Mechs can do riot control work.


idea weenie

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Re: IS Police Forces?
« Reply #141 on: 27 March 2022, 01:03:30 »
One idea might be that the larger machine guns fire 'birdshot' rubber shells.  So instead of a half-inch wide chunk of rubber, you have several quarter-inch rubber spheres being sprayed over a crowd.  Since they are smaller the ball-bearing sized pieces of rubber will slow down faster, but the sheer number of them mean that the riot will not like it.

Or paint rounds with a special paint mix that is nearly impossible to remove so the police know who to pick up in the after-riot sweeps.

 

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