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Author Topic: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?  (Read 1781 times)

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Once were I was put an ex-WoB experimental soldier in the small campaign, whose gene were derived by a dead aerospace pilot trueborn salvaged at Tukayyid, thus also have the small size enough to squeez in the small cockpit, and possible pilot for WoB's secret Protomech project as well. I was think about that a random cell of WoB scientists are replicate their own iron womb and try to produce those kids.

...But is it makes sense in the real Battletech universe? At least the Second Star League&ComStar was conqured the Smoke Jaguar area so they may had the chance to loot the real iron womb, and the latter didn't lose much arcane tech of Star League era include genetic science(although they didn't try much if I remember correctly.

Also, is the artificial womb ever existed in Inner Sphere factions' domain? I didn't heard about that.

AlphaMirage

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #1 on: 26 December 2020, 11:20:48 »
I don't think an artificial womb was used in the Inner Sphere. If there was it would likely be in the Magistracy of Canopus. It would be theoretically possible for a Blakist faction to clone an Aerospace phenotype. However, it would still be easier to source smaller people and train them as Mechwarriors for small cockpit machines. Blakist forces preferred cybernetics over generics

Daryk

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #2 on: 26 December 2020, 11:37:46 »
Belters might have the tech too...

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #3 on: 26 December 2020, 11:58:52 »
I think that Wolf's Dragoons were the only IS faction who ever used it.
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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #4 on: 26 December 2020, 13:03:51 »
Most Houses have populations large enough that they don't need iron wombs. Simple genetic variance will provide them with more than enough people in the desired sizes, even if they don't have all the fancy enhancements that trueborn phenotypes get. Just scour your trillions-deep population base for the thousands of people who naturally grow to Elemental or Aeropilot height, then entice those folks to enlist (or force them to, in nations that allow that).

Where do you think the Spheroid powers found all the troopers they need to field large BA formations that are only mildly less effective than specifically bred Elementals?
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #5 on: 26 December 2020, 16:18:10 »
For major powers' line troops, sure I don't think that it is an advantage. I don't think that the situation of Inner Sphere is too harsh enough to not let the maternity leave at all. An another factor is the population - Clans adopt iron womb because they need to increase the population quickly, but Inner Sphere is not so desperate enough to rely on this.

But it seems that there are some artificial wombs in a few hospitals of Inner Sphere, because the technology wasn't a brand new one. It was developed on 21th of Battletech universe if I remember correctly. Else is it only there for keep alive premature baby until they are grow enough, rather than raise a baby starting to a fertilized egg?

And the situation what I have imagine was, the ex-WoB experimental soldiers were the part of the experiment, and they were the test subject as well. It is not unusual for such group without any sense of humanity.

Mecha82

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #6 on: 26 December 2020, 17:28:29 »
But it seems that there are some artificial wombs in a few hospitals of Inner Sphere, because the technology wasn't a brand new one. It was developed on 21th of Battletech universe if I remember correctly. Else is it only there for keep alive premature baby until they are grow enough, rather than raise a baby starting to a fertilized egg?

This is true. Clan scientist cast just happened to start using that technology to create phenotypes. It might not had been created for that purpose but they were able to use it for that purpose. Sure focus of BT has always been and will always be military technology and military use of technology but in BTU that's not all there is. 
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Frabby

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #7 on: 26 December 2020, 17:35:47 »
There's Katherine Steiner-Davion and her shenanigans, but you arguably can't call her Inner Sphere anymore at that point.
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #8 on: 26 December 2020, 17:50:40 »
This is true. Clan scientist cast just happened to start using that technology to create phenotypes. It might not had been created for that purpose but they were able to use it for that purpose. Sure focus of BT has always been and will always be military technology and military use of technology but in BTU that's not all there is. 

Sometimes I wonder the technological advance of Battletech universe. It is not extreme compared by the other SF settings, but still it is a wonder for us.

There's Katherine Steiner-Davion and her shenanigans, but you arguably can't call her Inner Sphere anymore at that point.

And he was born by an iron womb as well.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #9 on: 28 December 2020, 06:04:28 »
Belters might have the tech too...

Doubtful. IThe Belters have tech that can keep people basically immortal (only selected ones of course). And why would they need it? They don't need big populations to begin with. The Belters must have tech that allows deep genetic manipulations probably even more advanced then what any Clan has (unless the Homeworld Clans have adopted the gene tech the Society developed)

Maelwys

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #10 on: 28 December 2020, 09:16:06 »
Doubtful. IThe Belters have tech that can keep people basically immortal (only selected ones of course). And why would they need it? They don't need big populations to begin with. The Belters must have tech that allows deep genetic manipulations probably even more advanced then what any Clan has (unless the Homeworld Clans have adopted the gene tech the Society developed)

Oh? Could you explain these statements more indepth?

Metallgewitter

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #11 on: 28 December 2020, 11:05:22 »
Oh? Could you explain these statements more indepth?

There is a segment about the Belters in the Interstellar Players book (I think the second one). The part talks about how there are Belters who had leading positions within the Belt but left those positions later but thanks to the high advanced medical technology they are basically made immortal. The book describes a pciture where one of those immortals shake hands with Ian Cameron (i think i need to reread that) There is also an example of one Belter who leaves the habitat by an airlook stays outside for 15 minutes and comes back basically unharmed. Plus even the young belters are extremly healthy and have higher then average resistance to G-Forces thanks to the high advanced medical knowledge / treatment. That's why Belters make some of the best Aerospace fighter pilots in the IS

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #12 on: 28 December 2020, 12:51:37 »
Of course, Interstellar Players is a "rumors and conspiracy theories" book so the truthiness of its entries is suspect.
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Nerroth

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #13 on: 28 December 2020, 17:31:33 »
For "non-Clan" Inner Sphere and near Periphery realms, perhaps certain component elements of Iron Womb technology would be useful for families with the means of acquiring them, in terms of further ensuring (or in some cases enabling) lines of succession.

The concept of sourcing genetic material from a "genemother" and "genefather" could be used as a form of IVF for some couples, and/or as a means of surrogacy for others, without necessarily creating "Trueborn" heirs directly.

Depending on the expense and expertise involved in acquiring and operating this technology for non-Clan states, it might not necessarily be something offered to any but the wealthiest of families, even on worlds such as Terra.


Indeed, this is something which more "integrationist" Clans, such as the Ghost Bears, could take, in terms of gaining the support of their conquered elites. There are cases of Spheroid and Periphery warriors being given the opportunity to Trial for the right to establish their own Bloodnames; while this would no doubt be the optimal approach from the Clan's perspective, also making expanded IVF and surrogacy options available to their subject populace (or at least to those which can afford it, though some sort of Trial could perhaps be offered to less well-off subjects seeking access to such options) could be viewed as a means of further incentivizing compliance.
« Last Edit: 28 December 2020, 17:38:49 by Nerroth »

Daryk

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #14 on: 28 December 2020, 17:34:19 »
Of course, Interstellar Players is a "rumors and conspiracy theories" book so the truthiness of its entries is suspect.

Yes, but several Belter augmentation packages are in Interstellar Operations...

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #15 on: 28 December 2020, 23:56:58 »
That doesn't mean the entire Belter chapter is on the up-and-up.
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Daryk

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #16 on: 29 December 2020, 05:12:13 »
Very true... though the packages could be seen as a plus in the "Belters might have iron womb tech" column.

Cannonshop

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #17 on: 29 December 2020, 08:27:41 »
I kinda think the tech is for veterinary work-it's easier to ship a liter of frozen embryos and a set of Iron Wombs, than to ship a starter herd of cattle, or to introduce useful invasive predators to break down a hostile ecology, and so on.  (*Which may be where the SLDF got it in the first place-use may have been legally restricted to animals prior to second exodus, which makes a lot more sense than imagining that tech we're already pretty close to using on a practical scale had to wait until the 28th century to be put into use.)

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AlphaMirage

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #18 on: 29 December 2020, 11:13:14 »
I kinda think the tech is for veterinary work-it's easier to ship a liter of frozen embryos and a set of Iron Wombs, than to ship a starter herd of cattle, or to introduce useful invasive predators to break down a hostile ecology, and so on.  (*Which may be where the SLDF got it in the first place-use may have been legally restricted to animals prior to second exodus, which makes a lot more sense than imagining that tech we're already pretty close to using on a practical scale had to wait until the 28th century to be put into use.)

I believe that is even the explicit stated use of it in universe prior to the Clan alterations.

vaderi

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #19 on: 30 December 2020, 08:22:22 »
That doesn't mean the entire Belter chapter is on the up-and-up.

Especially since ISP 2 was the Blakist Conspiracy book. My impression of that chapter was that the Belters definitely have some of the best Biotech in the IS but anything beyond the basic augment packages was speculation at best. ISP 2 was a glorious book.
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Daryk

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #20 on: 30 December 2020, 18:50:07 »
Those "basic augment packages" are pretty awesome in all respects.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #21 on: 30 December 2020, 21:44:14 »
honestly i suspect most successor states could build and use them by the end of the Jihad. the thing is that for the IS, such tech is mainly going to be useful for helping deal with fertility issues, as an alternative to IVF or surrogates. which means it really wouldn't be a big deal for the military side of the setting.

for the clans, they combined the tech with the idea of Eugenics, selective breeding towards specific traits. which made it much more big of a deal for them because it meant that they could produce whole batches of kids from a given combination of genetic parents without having the bottleneck of the woman's own biology, or having to maintain a collection of surrogates to carry the kids to term. that ability to mass produce people let them restructure their entire society.

it is also worth remembering that the iron wombs are separate from the clan genetic engineering tech. all an iron womb does is allow you to pop a fertilized ovum into a device and let it develop into a fully formed newborn. all you really need to use them once you have them is basic IVF tech to remove an egg and sperm from the respective donors and combine the two.

the ability to tweak the genetics to make the different clan phenotypes is a whole different area of technology that is not required to use iron wombs.
« Last Edit: 30 December 2020, 21:48:00 by glitterboy2098 »

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #22 on: 31 December 2020, 01:37:55 »
Though it doubtlessly made coming up with the Elemental phenotype easier.
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #23 on: 31 December 2020, 03:35:43 »
If you WANT to make it, and if you were keep the gene tech of Star League era while your sense of humanity is compared by WoB/Society or even make them tremble, I doubt that it is difficult that much. Even Hell's Horses, that surely have the superior morality than these two, did it, for they want it, had the tech while their Clans society have far less ethical problem on gene modification.

The problem is, is it really necessary to make the elemental? If you want the sheer strength in the human-sized silhouette, you may try exoskeleton/battle armor instead. While you need to bred the elemental to use them, you can give ordinary looking conscript the intensive drill and a brand new battle armor to make the similar to better result.

The super soldier for special ops seems not that bad, but Inner Sphere already provide various mechanical modification to their operators.

But Clans is different. Their main branch of soldiers are bred by artificial process, rather than recruit. They already modify the gene of the the soldiers they produces. Then it is nothing wrong to make them more powerful.

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #24 on: 31 December 2020, 18:58:34 »
Have you compared troops with the Belter Infantry Augmentation package to elementals?  I think the former are superior in just about every way...

Dayton3

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #25 on: 10 January 2021, 19:03:51 »
Wolf's Dragoons used Iron Wombs in the decades before Outreach was razed.

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #26 on: 11 January 2021, 20:01:11 »
As stated, the Iron Wombs were in use on Outreach if you can call that an IS Faction.

And as stated there REALLY is no need for them anywhere else.

Humanity doesn't have much of a problem making large #s of babies to the point that the IS has Trillions? of citizens.
I'm sure somewhere in the IS there is a Eugenics program on some world, but I'm betting they do it the old fashioned way with paired partners v/s Iron Wombs.

The clans had a rare situation where they wanted Better Bodies & MORE Bodies with a small starting # to begin with.
The Dragoons, aside from being clan too, were oddly in the same boat post-4SW when they started using them.

Nobody else had that combined need, other than, the mentioned use for growing livestock in a new planet colony.
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RifleMech

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #27 on: 18 January 2021, 06:25:04 »
Wolf's Dragoons are the only IS group I know of that has them. That doesn't mean others don't have the technology. It is based on old Star League Veterinarian Tech but I don't think it's that well known either.  I think the Dragoons used the tech to help another merc commander's fertility problems.

Beyond the Dragoons, Clans and WoB, I don't think the IS would us it to create armies.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #28 on: 18 January 2021, 08:21:39 »
And, all I have imagined was to making some dozen of test subject at most, rather than the regular production of dedicated warrior caste for them, so it seems acceptable to raise the test subjects by artificial womb. Although it may rise to making the army that is expected to run the protomech, though, but I think that Stone's Coalition was succeeded in stop their madness before it was gone too far(although it is sure that they didn't aware of such a wicked act, for WoB normally uses faithful volunteers for their twisted army).

RifleMech

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Re: Is there any Inner Sphere faction that replicates iron womb?
« Reply #29 on: 19 January 2021, 14:28:03 »
I don't know how many Wolf's Dragoons had. They did their version of training sibkos but I believe they included freebirths as well. They didn't have a prejudice between trueborn and freebirth. The Iron Wombs were just a way to increase the Dragoons numbers without adopting more orphans. I don't know how many went into Dragoon combat units, Home Guard, or civilian life.

I can see WoB using Iron Wombs to create an army but WoB also seems to favor machines. Maybe they'd use them to create BT versions of Daleks or Cybermen?