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Author Topic: Kampfgruppe Steiner Operation: Götterdämmerung or how we survived the Dark Age.  (Read 42471 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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I just don't find it believable, especially considering that other factions have gone from being military jokes to military juggernauts in only a few in-universe years.  Everyone seems to get a chance to be the winner once in a while.  Except the Lyrans.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Cannonshop

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I just don't find it believable, especially considering that other factions have gone from being military jokes to military juggernauts in only a few in-universe years.  Everyone seems to get a chance to be the winner once in a while.  Except the Lyrans.

There's always someone who's a designated 'sacrifice' and that role's belonged to the Lyrans since the war of 3039.

part of that, I suspect, is that it's just really easy to repeat what's been done before, and the LC has been everyone's battleground since the first day of the Clan Invasion storyline, but part of it has to also be properly assigned-they're in a bad position, with all the bad karma from having been part of a short-lived superstate, and all the bad karma of being used as a setting for conflict.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

DOC_Agren

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ohh we have the military juggernaut down (look at the Wall of Steel we use)...  just the social general which have been our curse since we were founded, miss handle it time and time again.

It so dug in, you would need someone like Liz Ngo, to come in and do the clean out, of the social officers from Lt on up in not just combat commands but the supply and logistics commands as well.   And even then I'm guessing it would take 15 to 20 years to purge enough of them to totally fix our issues.   

Can you image if we had used our assets and forged a proper military force???
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

Cannonshop

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ohh we have the military juggernaut down (look at the Wall of Steel we use)...  just the social general which have been our curse since we were founded, miss handle it time and time again.

It so dug in, you would need someone like Liz Ngo, to come in and do the clean out, of the social officers from Lt on up in not just combat commands but the supply and logistics commands as well.   And even then I'm guessing it would take 15 to 20 years to purge enough of them to totally fix our issues.   

Can you image if we had used our assets and forged a proper military force???

You will NEVER see a Canon equivalent to Liz Ngo.  Why?? because it would utterly unbalance the structure that the various generations of development staff have put in place.  certain stereotypes are simply 'baked in' to the Battletech setting, one of those, is that the Lyrans have the specific problems they have and can't make use of their advantages due to incompetence, needing someone from outside to do it for them.

from 3025 to 3080, that 'someone' has a hyphenated 'Davion' surname (Or just 'Davion') with the sole exceptions winding up being the Archon (for however briefly), or Mercenaries (See: Morgan Kell).

even in the current timeline, what happened to competent officers of the 26th?  That's right, they wound up leaving under a cloud to go be the new GDL.

THIS is how it WORKS, and why you'll never see either a canonization of Liz (because they could do it if they wanted), or an equivalent character being created from whole cloth;  her methods don't square with the intent of the developer staff.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

ANS Kamas P81

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and all the bad karma of being used as a setting for conflict.
On the flip side, that means you can justify battles as a Lyran against virtually anyone.  Other Lyrans and Feds?  Civil War.  Cappies?  Guerrero.  Kurita and Marik? Every Thursday.  Clan Wolf, Jade Falcon, Steel Viper, Smoke Jaguar?  Line up and take a number.  Blakists?  It all started here.  As for the future, Hells Horses are coming to a Melissia Theater near you, and there's still chances for more. 

And if Cannonshop is right and the Lyrans break up, well, that just leaves more people to fight on the battlefield.  It's good to be a Lyran, we live in a target rich environment and anywhere you go it's an advance to contact.

Who's Liz Ngo by the way?

DOC_Agren

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wait the new GDL???

Who's Liz Ngo by the way?
a fanfic character of Cannonshop..

anbd I'm not saying canon Liz and her methods for logically fighting..  but her "Inquistion" role is what it would take to fix it, and years to do so
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

Cannonshop

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On the flip side, that means you can justify battles as a Lyran against virtually anyone.  Other Lyrans and Feds?  Civil War.  Cappies?  Guerrero.  Kurita and Marik? Every Thursday.  Clan Wolf, Jade Falcon, Steel Viper, Smoke Jaguar?  Line up and take a number.  Blakists?  It all started here.  As for the future, Hells Horses are coming to a Melissia Theater near you, and there's still chances for more. 

And if Cannonshop is right and the Lyrans break up, well, that just leaves more people to fight on the battlefield.  It's good to be a Lyran, we live in a target rich environment and anywhere you go it's an advance to contact.

Who's Liz Ngo by the way?

Fanfic board as if you didn't know, Kamas, you've commented on the stories often enough-she's basically a fantasy because there is no way in hell a character like her will ever be given to the Lyrans, hence why she's fun to write in the fanfic boards.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

ANS Kamas P81

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Fanfic board as if you didn't know, Kamas, you've commented on the stories often enough-she's basically a fantasy because there is no way in hell a character like her will ever be given to the Lyrans, hence why she's fun to write in the fanfic boards.
I don't read the Fanfic boards...wait, were you playing her back in the FGC a few boards back?

Cannonshop

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I don't read the Fanfic boards...wait, were you playing her back in the FGC a few boards back?
yeah...a version, at least.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Metallgewitter

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I just don't find it believable, especially considering that other factions have gone from being military jokes to military juggernauts in only a few in-universe years.  Everyone seems to get a chance to be the winner once in a while.  Except the Lyrans.

Well there was the Operation audacity where the Lyrans, already battered, managed to give the Falcons a black eye (and those were mostly Lyran units with the support of two Davion units, the 2nd Crucis and 7th Crucis) and after the Jihad they actually managed to retake Pandora, an important manufacturing center. Unfortunatly Adam's successors managed to break everything. If the writers pattern the LC after German history we might get a rbirth arc in the future (akin to the creation of the Second German empire). One can hope.

Cannonshop

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Well there was the Operation audacity where the Lyrans, already battered, managed to give the Falcons a black eye (and those were mostly Lyran units with the support of two Davion units, the 2nd Crucis and 7th Crucis) and after the Jihad they actually managed to retake Pandora, an important manufacturing center. Unfortunatly Adam's successors managed to break everything. If the writers pattern the LC after German history we might get a rbirth arc in the future (akin to the creation of the Second German empire). One can hope.

the pattern isn't so much German as germanic, in particular the HRE and Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth-the HRE of course collapsed into the Austrohungarian empire and Poland slowly ceased to exist until the treaties that ended WW1, then vanished again during WW2 for a time.

Mainly on account of being everyone else's favorite playground for waging various wars between the 15th and 19th centuries.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

MarauderD

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I just don't find it believable, especially considering that other factions have gone from being military jokes to military juggernauts in only a few in-universe years.  Everyone seems to get a chance to be the winner once in a while.  Except the Lyrans.

The Lyrans absolutely crushed the 4th Succession War---and then promptly gave it all back to form the FRR.  *Doh!*

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Well there was the Operation audacity where the Lyrans, already battered, managed to give the Falcons a black eye (and those were mostly Lyran units with the support of two Davion units, the 2nd Crucis and 7th Crucis) and after the Jihad they actually managed to retake Pandora, an important manufacturing center. Unfortunatly Adam's successors managed to break everything. If the writers pattern the LC after German history we might get a rbirth arc in the future (akin to the creation of the Second German empire). One can hope.

The thing about Audacity was that it was a counter to Falcon aggression and it still ended with a net loss of Lyran worlds.  Reclaiming Pandora after the Jihad was nice... aside from the fact that it happened completely offscreen and by the time we heard about it the Falcons had already taken the world back.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Rainbow 6

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wait the new GDL???

Yep, the Acturan Guards RCT the Carlyle's were part of goes rogue from the LCAF, they and the others who remained loyal to the Commonwealth were then cashiered by the local commander, so chose to reform the GDL

See The Price of Duty for details.

BigDuke66

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Maybe we should change perspective away from in-universe.

The question is, are TPTB done with the downfall of the LC?
I guess so because someone has to take over the Falcon OZ and I doubt that all goes to the CHH & CGB while the LC is flushed further down the drain. That would make the Clans up there too strong compared to the further weakened LC.
For the LC it's now or never, although it's clear that the resurrection of the LC isn't a question of if but rather of when it will happen.

So I imaging the Falcon OZ gets ripped apart and the LC as well as CHH & CGB take what they can.
That may improve the LC's situation so far that they also can deal with the Wolfs.

DOC_Agren

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Yep, the Acturan Guards RCT the Carlyle's were part of goes rogue from the LCAF, they and the others who remained loyal to the Commonwealth were then cashiered by the local commander, so chose to reform the GDL

See The Price of Duty for details.
Wait there a surviving Carlyle or lead by someone else?
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Yeah.  Alex, Grayson's son, actually survived the Jihad- he'd been working as a guerilla fighting the WoB on Tharkad the whole time.  Adam Steiner named him Duke of Odessa.  The leader/founder of the current GDL is his grandson.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Walrus Gumboot

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Maybe we should change perspective away from in-universe.

The question is, are TPTB done with the downfall of the LC?
I guess so because someone has to take over the Falcon OZ and I doubt that all goes to the CHH & CGB while the LC is flushed further down the drain. That would make the Clans up there too strong compared to the further weakened LC.
For the LC it's now or never, although it's clear that the resurrection of the LC isn't a question of if but rather of when it will happen.

So I imaging the Falcon OZ gets ripped apart and the LC as well as CHH & CGB take what they can.
That may improve the LC's situation so far that they also can deal with the Wolfs.

I don't know, among other things it sure does look like the LC is ignoring a new Rim Worlds Republic metastasizing on its border (and that malignantly) in favor of another direct clash over Bolan. There's still a ways to fall yet.

Cannonshop

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I don't know, among other things it sure does look like the LC is ignoring a new Rim Worlds Republic metastasizing on its border (and that malignantly) in favor of another direct clash over Bolan. There's still a ways to fall yet.

That one was really obvious a while ago, not sure you need to spoiler it.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Nerroth

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I was just in the process of posting about how, in a sense, what is happening along the Commonwealth's anti-spinward and rimward borders is the effective creation of a revitalized "Rift zone".

As of the data in IlClan and in The Price of Duty, plus the glimpse at the campaign map from Tamar Rising in a recently-tweeted image, all but one of the worlds on the "Lyran" portion of the Timbuktu Collective had been part of the Rim Worlds Republic's Timbuktu Province prior to Operation ALMARIC; while four Rim Territories worlds were on the Lyran side of the old 2765 map, their other planets appear to be re-named (or perhaps re-colonized) from worlds in the former Finmark Province; while Melissia was formerly part of Apollo Province. Even the hints at an expanded Clan Hell's Horses OZ on that glimpse of the Tamar Rising campaign map suggest that a portion of their new borders with the reconstituted Tamar Pact and the Vesper Marches runs across former Rim Worlds territory. This, added to the Barrens and the Chainelane Isles, brings more of the former Rim Worlds zone into an array of, if not quite remnants, but perhaps heirs of a different kind to the old Republic's legacy.

So in a sense, the Commonwealth has partly undone ALMARIC... in part thanks to Alaric.
« Last Edit: 09 August 2021, 21:12:41 by Nerroth »

Rainbow 6

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Maybe we should change perspective away from in-universe.

The question is, are TPTB done with the downfall of the LC?
I guess so because someone has to take over the Falcon OZ and I doubt that all goes to the CHH & CGB while the LC is flushed further down the drain. That would make the Clans up there too strong compared to the further weakened LC.
For the LC it's now or never, although it's clear that the resurrection of the LC isn't a question of if but rather of when it will happen.

So I imaging the Falcon OZ gets ripped apart and the LC as well as CHH & CGB take what they can.
That may improve the LC's situation so far that they also can deal with the Wolfs.

Well we know from IlClan and The Price of Duty that at least two new nations are trying to rise in the Falcon OZ. Might give the LC a buffer from the HH and RD but that doesn't help the Commonwealth get back on its feet.

 

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