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Author Topic: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain  (Read 3942 times)

MDFification

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #60 on: 13 July 2022, 16:52:56 »
So, I had a thought. There are really 3 entities that could be considered successors to the RotS; the Galatean League, Covenant Worlds, and Augustine Alliance. Ex-RotS servicepeople have predominantly either joined up with the FedSuns, the FWL, or gone merc on Galatea.

It's not inconceivable that the Covenant Worlds and Augustine Alliance could merge. They'd then have the Senate, an ex-Paladin (the second in command of the Republic Remnant no less), quite a bit of RotS military technology and be in a position to hire a lot of ex-RotS units who've gone merc. That's practically the Republic 2.0, only it'd be a FWL member state.
« Last Edit: 13 July 2022, 16:56:14 by MDFification »

Angrii

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #61 on: 13 July 2022, 21:28:47 »
I like the way you think!

Colt Ward

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #62 on: 13 July 2022, 22:57:33 »
IMO her staying depends on where Levin shows up and how quickly she hears about it.
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MDFification

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #63 on: 14 July 2022, 06:34:01 »
IMO her staying depends on where Levin shows up and how quickly she hears about it.

She ex-Republic Remnant. It's a fairly safe bet that she's none to happy with Levin (who's choice to raise the wall meant abandoning most of the Republic's citizens and territory) or his successor Stone (who promptly destroyed the Remnant so he could conscript the survivors when the wall came down). I think there's good odds she'll stay on with the Covenant Worlds, who liberated Callison.

Church14

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #64 on: 14 July 2022, 09:14:44 »
So, I had a thought. There are really 3 entities that could be considered successors to the RotS; the Galatean League, Covenant Worlds, and Augustine Alliance. Ex-RotS servicepeople have predominantly either joined up with the FedSuns, the FWL, or gone merc on Galatea.

It's not inconceivable that the Covenant Worlds and Augustine Alliance could merge. They'd then have the Senate, an ex-Paladin (the second in command of the Republic Remnant no less), quite a bit of RotS military technology and be in a position to hire a lot of ex-RotS units who've gone merc. That's practically the Republic 2.0, only it'd be a FWL member state.

i would toss FedSuns on the list, but your logic/scenario works better than whatever I’ve come up with for a Republic pocket in the Suns

Colt Ward

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #65 on: 14 July 2022, 09:51:45 »
She ex-Republic Remnant. It's a fairly safe bet that she's none to happy with Levin (who's choice to raise the wall meant abandoning most of the Republic's citizens and territory) or his successor Stone (who promptly destroyed the Remnant so he could conscript the survivors when the wall came down). I think there's good odds she'll stay on with the Covenant Worlds, who liberated Callison.

The Paladins knew what was happening with Fortress.  She took that mission despite being isolated.
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Stormlion1

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #66 on: 15 July 2022, 09:45:07 »
But we are talking about Ariana Zou right? Or is there another female paladin that somehow managed to flee from Terra? Funny how Anastasia let such a prize slip through her hands. Oh and I wonder how Anastasia will react when she meets Raul Ortega again (per ilclan he was in command of his own unit and supposedly survived the entire trial

Anastasia probably would barely remember him. They met a few times on one planet a decade prior?
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Colt Ward

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #67 on: 15 July 2022, 09:59:06 »
Pretty sure they did run into each other again one time when she was a merc.

IIRC, Ortega fought the Falcons & Wolves and retreated south through Africa until his formation was cornered . . . yet part of them managed to break out to disappear.
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Wrangler

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #68 on: 05 September 2022, 06:35:20 »
I see only the mercenary units that formed in wake of the fall of Republic any sort remnants of the RotS.  Without citizens or even convoys attempting make their way to somewhere, its over.  RotS had taken bulk of their JumpShips for their Fortress Wall generator to power it.   So there won't be large group leaving had they been able sneak out in time.

Cheetahs were one of the merc groups (from Terra no less) who left after the Trials, they had one thing that may help rally forces to them should they really want suicidal move try reunite and attack Clans of Terra.  Devilin Stone's Phantom, the iconic Atlas II of Devlin Stone.  Again, small merc units aren't enough to rally troops but they could carry on the traditions of the RoTS like the Eridiani Light Horse was for the Star League.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #69 on: 06 September 2022, 03:39:05 »
The questrion is what happened to the Paladins and knights (especially the Ghosts) after the fall of Terra. Zou has joined the League after terrorizing the Wolfs in solo mode.
Jonah Levin is MIA. At least one Paladin died on Terra (Drummond) with another being a POW (Janella) and another now part of the Falcons (Tara). That still leaves a lot of Paladins unaccounted for. Especially the main actor for Eruptio and SHOFAR, Ergen. I don't recall him either getting killed or captured in Shattered Fortress or Ilclan (though I would have to check again) And then there is Tucker who managed to vanish inside a most likely highly guarded hospital after visitng Devlin Stone for the last time. I suspect that the Republic will integrate itself into the Wolves turning the Wolf empire or whatever is left of it after all is said and done into some sort of Neo Republic with more Clancentric power structures.
The flip side is of course that those that were on Terra can't leave as Terra is currently tucked behind the remains of the wall and only authropized Jumpships can come and leave. Which leaves the Republic remnants open for conquest (there were some planets left IIRC)

Wrangler

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #70 on: 06 September 2022, 06:41:31 »
I think person whom joined the Cheetahs was paladin.   I need re-read the short story who it was, it new name I think.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #71 on: 06 September 2022, 07:48:06 »
I think person whom joined the Cheetahs was paladin.   I need re-read the short story who it was, it new name I think.

that was a Ghost knight with the codename Cloud. The other two were former RAF soldiers who fought wioth the Wolves against the Falcons piloting an Ares.

Church14

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #72 on: 06 September 2022, 10:07:07 »
I suspect that the Republic will integrate itself into the Wolves turning the Wolf empire or whatever is left of it after all is said and done into some sort of Neo Republic with more Clancentric power structures.
The flip side is of course that those that were on Terra can't leave as Terra is currently tucked behind the remains of the wall and only authropized Jumpships can come and leave. Which leaves the Republic remnants open for conquest (there were some planets left IIRC)

Officially, there is no Republic left to integrate nor would Alaric recognize it if there were. He wanted complete dissolution of the faction to it’s barest level because the author had an ax to grind. Alaric also hasn’t been interested in any compromise on any level that we’ve seen since he took Terra, regardless of from IS or clan. Add in that this is a planet that has had clanners as their boogeymen that were coming for them with plans to destroy all that they were for 100 years. A century of severe cultural baggage to get over.

If I had to guess, Alaric is going to force the most clanniest of clan cultures on Terra for that’s his dream and it’s going to be miserable for everyone, Alaric included.

For the rest of the RotS, maybe they can form some tiny substate, but I’m doubting it. They at least have the VIPs AWOL from Alaric to make this a thing. It’s just going to be a very violent stretch of space for quite some time. Though given how thin many armies are stretched, a huge concentration of troops (4-5 regiments each) on a couple planets might be enough to preserve oneself.

The more I read, the more my hope is that we can at a minimum just get some badass merc unit on par with ELH, the Dragoons, etc.
« Last Edit: 06 September 2022, 10:10:37 by Church14 »

Wrangler

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #73 on: 06 September 2022, 12:02:45 »
The more I read, the more my hope is that we can at a minimum just get some badass merc unit on par with ELH, the Dragoons, etc.

That would be cool to see, such as one of the Stone Brigade regiments.  I'm going need read the Shattered Sphere & ilClan source books if mentions what happened to those expeditions that went outside the wall and if any of them made it back or some of them.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #74 on: 07 September 2022, 06:42:39 »
Officially, there is no Republic left to integrate nor would Alaric recognize it if there were. He wanted complete dissolution of the faction to it’s barest level because the author had an ax to grind. Alaric also hasn’t been interested in any compromise on any level that we’ve seen since he took Terra, regardless of from IS or clan. Add in that this is a planet that has had clanners as their boogeymen that were coming for them with plans to destroy all that they were for 100 years. A century of severe cultural baggage to get over.

If I had to guess, Alaric is going to force the most clanniest of clan cultures on Terra for that’s his dream and it’s going to be miserable for everyone, Alaric included.

And of course this will work perfectly because forcing an alien culture on 10 billion people can never go wrong right? Right? I expect that he will have to scale back and use what is in place because completly dismantling a system that worked will not make his case easier. And I highly doubt Terrans would follow someone like Alaric when they basically hold him by the neck in terms of supplying his army when he will be deep over his head in battles for the years to come (unless civil war breaks out in the Confederation and Combine at the same time)

Church14

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #75 on: 07 September 2022, 13:45:16 »
And of course this will work perfectly because forcing an alien culture on 10 billion people can never go wrong right? Right? I expect that he will have to scale back and use what is in place because completly dismantling a system that worked will not make his case easier. And I highly doubt Terrans would follow someone like Alaric when they basically hold him by the neck in terms of supplying his army when he will be deep over his head in battles for the years to come (unless civil war breaks out in the Confederation and Combine at the same time)

To be fair, Battletech has repeatedly had tiny, tiny forces occupy worlds. Like 4 mechs for populations of a few million. So i can accept Terra not throwing the wolves off planet.

Buuuuuuut, I would like to see it be the Wolf occupation of Terra. That they never get to feel like it’s home or that they are even necessarily safe there.

Metallgewitter

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #76 on: 08 September 2022, 01:48:16 »
To be fair, Battletech has repeatedly had tiny, tiny forces occupy worlds. Like 4 mechs for populations of a few million. So i can accept Terra not throwing the wolves off planet.

Buuuuuuut, I would like to see it be the Wolf occupation of Terra. That they never get to feel like it’s home or that they are even necessarily safe there.

Well the wolves in the past had this experience already. during Vlad's later years the wolves hold onto the big cities of their planets and left the rural areas to fend for themselves. something that might not be as easy on Terra as the majority of Terrans live in big metropolitan cities. I said this before but I hink Terrans only have the choice between evils: resist the Wolves will leave them open to the Confederation and Combine. Accept the Wolves and their lives will change for the worst in terms of freedoms and social mobility. Of course there is also the "infiltrate the Wolves and change them from within" route. as the Bears are currently experiencing. Because let's be fair here how does Alaric think he can rule a planet whose population is one of the most educated in the IS and also has "fascistic" tendencies (I take this from the Jihad sourcebooks where Terran nationalism is described as a form of fascisim)

BrianDavion

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #77 on: 08 September 2022, 02:03:47 »
Well the wolves in the past had this experience already. during Vlad's later years the wolves hold onto the big cities of their planets and left the rural areas to fend for themselves. something that might not be as easy on Terra as the majority of Terrans live in big metropolitan cities. I said this before but I hink Terrans only have the choice between evils: resist the Wolves will leave them open to the Confederation and Combine. Accept the Wolves and their lives will change for the worst in terms of freedoms and social mobility. Of course there is also the "infiltrate the Wolves and change them from within" route. as the Bears are currently experiencing. Because let's be fair here how does Alaric think he can rule a planet whose population is one of the most educated in the IS and also has "fascistic" tendencies (I take this from the Jihad sourcebooks where Terran nationalism is described as a form of fascisim)

I mean ALL extreme nationalism has "fasistic tendancies" and the thing is this may actually be to Alaric's advantage if he can USE that to his advantage. use the right propaganda and he could tap into that and produce a planet whose "drinking the Koolaid"

Metallgewitter

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #78 on: 08 September 2022, 05:58:59 »
I mean ALL extreme nationalism has "fasistic tendancies" and the thing is this may actually be to Alaric's advantage if he can USE that to his advantage. use the right propaganda and he could tap into that and produce a planet whose "drinking the Koolaid"

Well that is possible. But there is also the near disaster of comstar's early reign when they let Terrans think they ould rebuild the Hegemony. After that Comstar put basically a muzzle on Terran nationalism. Blake's wWrd unleashed Terra by starting to restore the Hegemony (well Protectorate) by making use of Terran businessmen and tech to restore ravaged Hegemony planets. Stone took over and kept the Hegemony under a new name and also portrayed the image of a "Pax Republicana" with of course Terra as the center. As you said this is most likely what Alaric will do as it's most likely the only way to keep Terrans from revolting (again the numbers are not in Alaric's favor especially being caged behind a wall) The Republic experienced unrest in their fortress phase and that was at least a small realm. Imagine the pressure on one planet basically besieged by all sides

CJC070

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #79 on: 08 September 2022, 09:03:49 »
To be fair, Battletech has repeatedly had tiny, tiny forces occupy worlds. Like 4 mechs for populations of a few million. So i can accept Terra not throwing the wolves off planet.

Buuuuuuut, I would like to see it be the Wolf occupation of Terra. That they never get to feel like it’s home or that they are even necessarily safe there.

That is when you have a small population base.  Terra has a population of 7+ billion not to mention all the habitats in the system.  You also have a planet who was occupied by the Word of Blake and although less than 1% resisted there are plenty of ways to hide even a Battlemech.   In addition if Alaric pushes to far there are a million ways to resist that would affect his position but not adversely affect the defence of the planet.

Colt Ward

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #80 on: 08 September 2022, 09:15:12 »
That is when you have a small population base.  Terra has a population of 7+ billion not to mention all the habitats in the system.  You also have a planet who was occupied by the Word of Blake and although less than 1% resisted there are plenty of ways to hide even a Battlemech.   In addition if Alaric pushes to far there are a million ways to resist that would affect his position but not adversely affect the defence of the planet.

The Sheeple Principle will apply right up until it is not wanted for the narrative- see Xin Sheng.
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Church14

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #81 on: 08 September 2022, 11:36:05 »
As you said this is most likely what Alaric will do as it's most likely the only way to keep Terrans from revolting (again the numbers are not in Alaric's favor especially being caged behind a wall) The Republic experienced unrest in their fortress phase and that was at least a small realm. Imagine the pressure on one planet basically besieged by all sides

Except has Alaric shown even the slightest hint of wanting compromise on his dream of a Clanner faux-Star League?

He’s needlessly betrayed potential strong allies, abandoned others, made it clear it is him and him alone taking credit, turned away potential allies…

I don’t see him shrewdly manipulating the masses.

Cannonshop

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #82 on: 08 September 2022, 12:01:24 »
Except has Alaric shown even the slightest hint of wanting compromise on his dream of a Clanner faux-Star League?

He’s needlessly betrayed potential strong allies, abandoned others, made it clear it is him and him alone taking credit, turned away potential allies…

I don’t see him shrewdly manipulating the masses.

THey're the MASSES, he doesn't NEED to be shrewd.

all you need to do, is read up on the history of that region from the moment Word of Blake tossed out Comstar in the fifties, through the Jihad, into the actual Republic's history itself (including the 'voluntary' relocations of masses of population ala Marshall Tito.)

He doesn't NEED to be particularly clever, or charismatic, etc. etc. to 'win' their loyalty-their leaders surrendered, they're going to follow-just like they always have.

and they'll fall in line for the next guy, too.  I can't remember the exact quote from "Catch-22" (the book) but it's the local talking to the main character, pointing out that their friendliness and compliance with invaders has kept them alive while those who committed to fight are dead.

They welcome every successful conqueror, and stand in the parade audience, and then go back to living their lives until the next one shows up.

When you're on the most fought-over real-estate in human space, Apathy is a survival trait.
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Church14

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #83 on: 08 September 2022, 12:08:06 »
THey're the MASSES, he doesn't NEED to be shrewd.

all you need to do, is read up on the history of that region from the moment Word of Blake tossed out Comstar in the fifties, through the Jihad, into the actual Republic's history itself (including the 'voluntary' relocations of masses of population ala Marshall Tito.)

He doesn't NEED to be particularly clever, or charismatic, etc. etc. to 'win' their loyalty-their leaders surrendered, they're going to follow-just like they always have.

and they'll fall in line for the next guy, too.  I can't remember the exact quote from "Catch-22" (the book) but it's the local talking to the main character, pointing out that their friendliness and compliance with invaders has kept them alive while those who committed to fight are dead.

They welcome every successful conqueror, and stand in the parade audience, and then go back to living their lives until the next one shows up.

When you're on the most fought-over real-estate in human space, Apathy is a survival trait.

Except in the last 400 years, there have been what? 5 real fights on Terra.
Amaris Coup
Amaris falls
Word of Blake takes over
Republic takes over
Wolves take over


This isn’t a planet used to changing hands often.

Though as to the main thrust of your point, that apathy in part is because in many cases a world changing hands doesn’t mean huge changes to day to day life. I think Alaric is going to make (or try to make) major changes and try to reshape Terran culture from the ground up b

Metallgewitter

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #84 on: 08 September 2022, 12:15:12 »
There is only one small catch: Alaric is a techno barbarian noit someone from the Is. While Terra has lost it's "The Clans must die a slow and painful death" phase after the Republic formation I would bet there are still a lot of people who view the Clans as an alien culture. And how does he want to push the Clan caste system on Terra? This would mean massive indoctrination. On a planet that holds vast amount of knowledge and history. Alaric will have to compromise lest his army gets drowned by an entire enraged population. This is not Strana Mechty where Nicolas and his cult had the superiority in numbers. This is Terra where an entire island drowned one full Galaxy with it's sheer population.

I wonder if Alaric even knows that his Empire is slowly but surely ripped apart. They did send Jumpships but who knows what happened to them.

Cannonshop

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #85 on: 08 September 2022, 13:11:40 »
Except in the last 400 years, there have been what? 5 real fights on Terra.
Amaris Coup
Amaris falls
Word of Blake takes over
Republic takes over
Wolves take over


This isn’t a planet used to changing hands often.

Though as to the main thrust of your point, that apathy in part is because in many cases a world changing hands doesn’t mean huge changes to day to day life. I think Alaric is going to make (or try to make) major changes and try to reshape Terran culture from the ground up b

Thing about the Apathy strategy, is that 'culutural change' ends up being not-even-skin deep, and reverts because the locals just don't CARE enough to be sincere aside from the ones who were already into it in the first place.  (real-life examples violate Rule 4, so I won't use them, but they DO exist.)
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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #86 on: 19 September 2022, 12:39:59 »
Terran people will act in according to who is in control. Too heavy of a hand and the planet rises up, to light and the Wolves just won't be in control.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #87 on: 19 September 2022, 16:23:18 »
Terran people will act in according to who is in control. Too heavy of a hand and the planet rises up, to light and the Wolves just won't be in control.

Just thought of something: Terrans have experienced the Falcons and the Wolves. While the Wolves were certainly not exactly nice the Falcons were way more savage. That alone might give Alaric a small breather to convince Terrans to work with him. In a manner of "Hey I am sane" way.

And what should not be overlooked: Terra holds currently not only a very huge civilian population but also former RAF regular and special forces. Amaris had to deal with a resistance throughout his entire reign. Even if Stone has surrendered what would keep those former RAF from starting terror campaigns? Levin for example is still unaccounted for and the same goes for Tucker. Or heaven forbid someone has the bright idea to take some of the stockpiled nuclear weapons and plays "guess who will glow today"?

Colt Ward

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #88 on: 20 September 2022, 08:59:59 »
Just thought of something: Terrans have experienced the Falcons and the Wolves. While the Wolves were certainly not exactly nice the Falcons were way more savage. That alone might give Alaric a small breather to convince Terrans to work with him. In a manner of "Hey I am sane" way.

It worked for the RAF.
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mikecj

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Re: RotS in ilClan - Only a remnant of a remnant shall remain
« Reply #89 on: 20 September 2022, 12:17:17 »
After TPK'ing a Falcon Galaxy... Alaric better be very diplomatic with the Japanese.
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