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Author Topic: The Palmyra Disaster  (Read 21625 times)

Hellraiser

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #600 on: 14 June 2021, 10:39:10 »
Thanks Harlock, 

I've never kept up with the post Jihad novels after the first few,  Ghost War & some others.

I didn't even realize Trillian was from Peter's line, I thought he died w/o kids & the Cartoon character (Adam?) took over.

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Lord Harlock

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #601 on: 14 June 2021, 13:39:23 »
Thanks Harlock, 

I've never kept up with the post Jihad novels after the first few,  Ghost War & some others.

I didn't even realize Trillian was from Peter's line, I thought he died w/o kids & the Cartoon character (Adam?) took over.

Adam did ascends to Archon, and he had two heirs following him. His son Andrew Steiner and granddaughter Melissa Steiner II followed him as Archon. However, Melissa bungled up by trying to play the Wolves- she had no known heirs which is the style of the moment. Trillian Steiner-Davion followed her cousin Melissa after her failure. Adam Steiner still has a descendant in General of the Armies Roderick Steiner through his other son, Frederick.

Andrew Steiner gets my seal of approval for not liking Stone. I suspect a Ghost Knight or his daughter Melissa poisoned him. Melissa had a strange admiration for Katherine Steiner Davion, and that influenced her actions as Archon.

And yeah after Call to Arms, it was rough till about By Temptation and By War

VensersRevenge

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #602 on: 14 June 2021, 13:44:14 »
I am 100% certain that Roderick is going to be Archon by the time everything settles into a state of relative peace. And from what I remember, Andrew didn't like Stone, but he didn't actually do anything to make the Lyrans less connected to the Republic.
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Rainbow 6

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #603 on: 14 June 2021, 15:00:51 »
I am 100% certain that Roderick is going to be Archon by the time everything settles into a state of relative peace. And from what I remember, Andrew didn't like Stone, but he didn't actually do anything to make the Lyrans less connected to the Republic.

Business is business I guess.

Hellraiser

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #604 on: 14 June 2021, 15:58:19 »
Business is business I guess.

Given the damage the LA/LC had taken, do you "REALLY" want to make an enemy of the "New" 3rd power on your boarder.

The RotS basically held all the territory that the united FC had already held for 40ish years.

So I can see why you "get along" with the new neighbor despite your own feelings.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Stormlion1

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #605 on: 14 June 2021, 18:34:55 »
I am 100% certain that Roderick is going to be Archon by the time everything settles into a state of relative peace. And from what I remember, Andrew didn't like Stone, but he didn't actually do anything to make the Lyrans less connected to the Republic.

Which is a shame given how much Trillian is doing for the LC at the moment in comparison to previous Archons.
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Lord Harlock

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #606 on: 14 June 2021, 20:17:05 »
I am 100% certain that Roderick is going to be Archon by the time everything settles into a state of relative peace. And from what I remember, Andrew didn't like Stone, but he didn't actually do anything to make the Lyrans less connected to the Republic.

I have a perfect solution. Roderick marries Trillian. It's a perfect solution, and then they can go have kids because of tired of childless royals who have had ages to produce some heirs but haven't. Even Victor had more kids in a twenty year period than the current crop of characters in the same amount of time.

As for Andrew Steiner, he was probably working towards disconnecting and reinvigorating the Lyran Commonwealth when the  Ghost Knight maybe poisoned him. It's easy to forget that Andrew didn't have long on the throne when he suddenly was poisoned, and it would make sense that old Devil Stone decided to off a rival.

Which is a shame given how much Trillian is doing for the LC at the moment in comparison to previous Archons.

To be a regular to good Steiner-Davion is to suffer. Unless you are evil, then you get to have fun even when you are punished. Katherine got off too easily, but at the least, Old Kat got a taste of her own mother killing medicine. 

VensersRevenge

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #607 on: 14 June 2021, 23:20:49 »
Or he just got food poisoning. Considering how little Stone did to the Capellans or ex-Leaguers, I highly doubt he assassinated Andrew Steiner.
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Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #608 on: 14 June 2021, 23:49:11 »
Or he just got food poisoning. Considering how little Stone did to the Capellans or ex-Leaguers, I highly doubt he assassinated Andrew Steiner.

Capellans didn’t eat his disarmament crap. Republic had no good ins for Capellan higher ups. Republic met with FedSun and Steiner people.

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #609 on: 15 June 2021, 01:22:16 »
Because spy's are unable to be used on hostile forces. I'll acknowledge that Capellan xenophobia would have made it more difficult, but the Leaguers were anti-Stone as well, and none of them died. I still don't understand why people think Andrew was assassinated, people die and he died in a period of peace where accidents are more likely to happen. Even if he was assassinated, there are a lot of other groups that mind of wanted to kill him that wouldn't have to worry about causing an international incident with their closest trading partner if they got caught.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #610 on: 15 June 2021, 04:48:47 »
Because spy's are unable to be used on hostile forces. I'll acknowledge that Capellan xenophobia would have made it more difficult, but the Leaguers were anti-Stone as well, and none of them died. I still don't understand why people think Andrew was assassinated, people die and he died in a period of peace where accidents are more likely to happen. Even if he was assassinated, there are a lot of other groups that mind of wanted to kill him that wouldn't have to worry about causing an international incident with their closest trading partner if they got caught.

Well you could say the Leaguers had one huge problem: no unified nation. If the Republic wants to knock one League nation around they could do so. I highly doubt the Regulans or Marik Commonwealth would ride to the aid of the Oriente Protectorate. And Stone did threaten with war when the Oriente raiding campaign claimed the lives of his oficers (Carronade lore).

Kasaga

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #611 on: 15 June 2021, 06:16:51 »
Capellans didn’t eat his disarmament crap. Republic had no good ins for Capellan higher ups. Republic met with FedSun and Steiner people.

That's one thing I could never understand or liked.  The AFFS never rebuilt after the Jihad.  The just moved around the numbers of 'Mechs until the Republic era army was formed.  It was just reshuffling of survivors and maybe adding a few battalions to be at the core of LCTs.  The Capellans actually increased from pre jihad numbers if I remember correctly.  Plus you have the Combine rebuilding.  I get the LC/FS were tired of fighting by the end of it.  However, they couldn't even protect themselves from one directed power let alone the dogpile they found themselves in. 

Onion2112

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #612 on: 15 June 2021, 07:47:42 »
Actually at the time of the disaster that this thread is named after the Fed Suns Army was a decent size - I think it was mostly Caleb’s rearmament.
From what I can work out (from the two 3145 books) it was around 57-58 House Mech Regiments equivalent - it had 24 full Regts, at least 37 Front line LCTs, 26 March Militia LCTs, 5 Training LCTs, 5 other Training cadres and 3 Training Battalions.
LCT Mech elements are probably 4 Companies.

And the Lyrans weren’t far off this number either


Frank

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #613 on: 15 June 2021, 22:41:43 »
In the latest release of Shrapnel in contains a piece on black boxes from a Combine scientist. In it explains he started to receive encrypted messages from the AFFS. He told the DCMS. They moved in and listen in. Kind of explains how the DCMS was able to ride ruff shot over the AFFS during the invasion. They probably learn of the Palmyra meeting point and planned according.

Metallgewitter

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #614 on: 16 June 2021, 04:43:11 »
In the latest release of Shrapnel in contains a piece on black boxes from a Combine scientist. In it explains he started to receive encrypted messages from the AFFS. He told the DCMS. They moved in and listen in. Kind of explains how the DCMS was able to ride ruff shot over the AFFS during the invasion. They probably learn of the Palmyra meeting point and planned according.

Shouldn't the FedCom knew about this when Theodore send them a Fax message to inform them that Luthien was under threat from the Clans (in 3052)? I remember that Hanse was shocked that the Combine had Fax tech at all.
From what I understood is that the Combine refined the Fax tech so that it doesn't send the data without sending it anywhere else. I would assume that the FedCom would improve their Fax too.

Niopsian

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #615 on: 16 June 2021, 08:10:21 »
Shouldn't the FedCom knew about this when Theodore send them a Fax message to inform them that Luthien was under threat from the Clans (in 3052)? I remember that Hanse was shocked that the Combine had Fax tech at all.
From what I understood is that the Combine refined the Fax tech so that it doesn't send the data without sending it anywhere else. I would assume that the FedCom would improve their Fax too.

It's not just that the DCMS was listening in on Davion black box traffic - it's the fact that they were picking up encoded messages days or weeks earlier than they should have been capable of and those encoded messages were in the clear.

Hyperspace is weird, y'all.


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Lord Harlock

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #616 on: 16 June 2021, 13:04:37 »
Shouldn't the FedCom knew about this when Theodore send them a Fax message to inform them that Luthien was under threat from the Clans (in 3052)? I remember that Hanse was shocked that the Combine had Fax tech at all.
From what I understood is that the Combine refined the Fax tech so that it doesn't send the data without sending it anywhere else. I would assume that the FedCom would improve their Fax too.

Both according to Handbook House Davion had improved the Faxes by 3067. By 3144, you would think that both would be working to encrypt on a whole new level.

It's not just that the DCMS was listening in on Davion black box traffic - it's the fact that they were picking up encoded messages days or weeks earlier than they should have been capable of and those encoded messages were in the clear.

Hyperspace is weird, y'all.

The obvious answer is Stone did it. Okay, Levin did it when he turned on the Fortress Wall, but it was the Republic. Am I serious? Not really, but the encryption keys of the Black Boxes and time space shouldn’t work like that. And the Fortress Wall is the biggest time space hyperspace nullification in the area.


idea weenie

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #617 on: 16 June 2021, 13:19:33 »
It's not just that the DCMS was listening in on Davion black box traffic - it's the fact that they were picking up encoded messages days or weeks earlier than they should have been capable of and those encoded messages were in the clear.

Hyperspace is weird, y'all.

All I can think of is there is more noise on the Black Box frequencies, so they had to simplify the messages so the signal:noise ratio was better.  For example, using the K-series from sarna, the K-4 series can normally send megabytes of information, but if the frequencies are noisier it might only be capable of sending kilobytes at a time instead.

Still, the Davion forces should have been able to send out messages using a similar style as the ELF transmission setup, where certain letter groups based on which day will indicate which unit is to receive the orders, and what those orders are.

To me that is what the Kurita scientist was able to hear, and the DCMS had managed to crack the codes for the next month or two for the Davion transmissions allowing them to know what was being said.  The scientist was able to get a direction-finding setup working (or just sensitive over a longer range), noticed that a lot of coded transmissions were coming from Davion space, and called the DCMS to let them know.

Stormlion1

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #618 on: 16 June 2021, 14:37:58 »
Capellans didn’t eat his disarmament crap. Republic had no good ins for Capellan higher ups. Republic met with FedSun and Steiner people.

If I remember the CapCon did draw down there numbers to a degree but rather than turn mechs to scrap they hid a large number away. In there defence all the Houses did so, but they hid maybe 10% away while the CapCon hid away more like 25%. It shows up as a scene in a novel where Daoshan Liao is showing off a cache of mechs to another character. Bannson I think.
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Ramseti

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #619 on: 16 June 2021, 16:15:21 »
It's not just that the DCMS was listening in on Davion black box traffic - it's the fact that they were picking up encoded messages days or weeks earlier than they should have been capable of and those encoded messages were in the clear.

Hyperspace is weird, y'all.
I'm still waiting on the hardcopy version, so I haven't read the story yet. Does it say if this is specifically a local phenomenon or more widespread?

Either way, this is just ... ugh. So now hyperspace is the Warp, with its random time distortion shenanigans and proprietary decryption protocols.

Hellraiser

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #620 on: 16 June 2021, 17:14:17 »
It's not just that the DCMS was listening in on Davion black box traffic - it's the fact that they were picking up encoded messages days or weeks earlier than they should have been capable of and those encoded messages were in the clear.

Hyperspace is weird, y'all.

Is this DC Scientist you talking about something new in the 3100's

I thought the FS realized the issue a long time ago & started encoding them.

The 4th SW supposedly had no losses of BB tech but in reality one wasn't destroyed which was how Teddie knew a lot of the stuff about the Wo39.

Hanse comments on Outreach that he's surprised the Wo39 didn't go worse after Teddie admits they were listening in.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Kasaga

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #621 on: 16 June 2021, 17:29:48 »
Is this DC Scientist you talking about something new in the 3100's

I thought the FS realized the issue a long time ago & started encoding them.

The 4th SW supposedly had no losses of BB tech but in reality one wasn't destroyed which was how Teddie knew a lot of the stuff about the Wo39.

Hanse comments on Outreach that he's surprised the Wo39 didn't go worse after Teddie admits they were listening in.

Theodore doesn't admit that on outreach.  He sends a FAX to New Avalon which was intercepted by intelligence and forwarded faster in relays.  He reported the pending assault on Luthien by the Jaguars and Nova Cats. 

Colt Ward

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #622 on: 17 June 2021, 15:00:29 »
Hanse also got better writers. I'm willing to wait until IlClan and later books before completely dismissing Alaric as a politician.

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What we have gotten of him in the last set of novels is a is like a photograph of the statue we were presented in Bonfire.  Whole chunks of his earlier character development got tossed out the window and we sort of went back to how he was before running into Anastasia.
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VensersRevenge

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #623 on: 17 June 2021, 15:06:12 »
Yeah, I have yet to read Bonfire, and I'm sure he's better in that book. But let's be honest, Hour of the Wolf's characterization of him is going to be the one later authors have to base their writing of him on, if only because it is more recent and BLP is now the main author of plot-advancing books.
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MarauderD

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #624 on: 17 June 2021, 15:34:17 »
BLP is now the main author of plot-advancing books.

That is a fair assumption to make, but has it been stated somewhere officially that this is the case?

For me HotW was shockingly boring and I found myself skipping huge sections.  Very disappointing book, just in my opinion.

VensersRevenge

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #625 on: 17 June 2021, 15:40:52 »
I feel like it was implied in the hype-up of the plotline advancing again that he would be taking over the mainline fiction, but I very well could be misremembering.
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Kasaga

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #626 on: 17 June 2021, 18:07:00 »
I feel like the storyline is skipping around too much.  Like jumping ahead and waiting on other content that isn't done to be released to make sense of it all.  I haven't read HotW yet.  I honestly don't know what to read after Bonfire

Sartris

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #627 on: 17 June 2021, 18:28:03 »
Someone will have to check the exact dates here, but I think I have the post bonfire fiction on my shelf roughly based on when they start. They’re all pretty clustered together

A Splinter of Hope
The Anvil
Rock of the Republic
Shell Games
Divided We Fall
Grey Watch Protocol
Honor’s Gauntlet
Paid in Blood (pt 2 of Grey Watch)
Children of Kerensky (starts in 3121 but ends right on the eve of the attack on terra)
Hour of the Wolf

Kasaga

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #628 on: 17 June 2021, 19:26:22 »
Someone will have to check the exact dates here, but I think I have the post bonfire fiction on my shelf roughly based on when they start. They’re all pretty clustered together

A Splinter of Hope
The Anvil
Rock of the Republic
Shell Games
Divided We Fall
Grey Watch Protocol
Honor’s Gauntlet
Paid in Blood (pt 2 of Grey Watch)
Children of Kerensky (starts in 3121 but ends right on the eve of the attack on terra)
Hour of the Wolf

Awesome thanks

Hellraiser

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Re: The Palmyra Disaster
« Reply #629 on: 22 June 2021, 11:29:56 »
Theodore doesn't admit that on outreach.  He sends a FAX to New Avalon which was intercepted by intelligence and forwarded faster in relays.  He reported the pending assault on Luthien by the Jaguars and Nova Cats.

Ah, thanks, my bad, I recall the message he sends, I was thinking they spoke on Outreach about 3039 previously & got the timeline jumbled.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo