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Author Topic: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard  (Read 4781 times)

Empyrus

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Doing some color testing. Four different blues, though the shoulder and torso look pretty similar. The biggest question is: the lighter or the darker found in the arm? Both seem reasonable options.

Also, i finally understand what's the deal with white. It is horrible. Vallejo's bone white is thick, goopy paint that doesn't even out even after thinning it a bit. This Banshee has two layers of it, didn't bother with a third since this is a pure test unit.
That said, i did paint over brown/tan, i figure next test will be done over white primer.

I do have white contrast paint, i'll be trying that on this test unit as well.

My Alliance Guards are finally varnished, they're just drying. Will be grabbing photos later.
« Last Edit: 28 August 2022, 21:18:37 by Empyrus »
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Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, next up Lyran Guards
« Reply #1 on: 26 June 2021, 14:10:52 »
Contrast white question: Can i paint it just over white primer or should i do a white coat first?

Also, which blue would people recommend for Lyran Guards? Based on my testing, i'm inclined to toward Vallejo Magic or Electric Blue.
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worktroll

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Re: Back to painting, next up Lyran Guards
« Reply #2 on: 26 June 2021, 14:35:32 »
Contrast paints are really dependant on the surface underneath. If it's too 'grippy', then the contrast won't stretch over the flat parts & collect in the panel lines.

There's a reason I keep naming Grey Seer - a Citadel base - all the time. It's just about the best prime I've found, and works with pretty much anything, let alone contrasts. It's a light grey that goes on thin & smooth. Available in pot or spray can (hey, I like hand priming, it's a ritual thing - that, and painting reverses the potential carpal tunnel effects of typing, for me.)

That white has certainly gone on heavy! You'll get a poor result with the Apothecary White contrast paint, because the prime has filled in all the fine detail and left things glooped. Under any circumstance, I'd give that mini a trip back to the stripping pot before going further.

White's a bugger to work with in several ways. The biggest, I'd suggest, is providing contrast. It's the appearance of all the panel lines, and detailing, that add the perception of size to minis IMHO. A flat white mini (such as above) lacks all that contrasting detail, and looks like a plastic toy. Classic ways of getting the sense of depth include black base and repeated white drybrushes, even drawing the panel lines on with a fine tip black pen. Either way, much work, lots of bother & redoing bits that didn't work out right. Matt white paints also don't work with inks/washes the way other colours do - the surface is chalky (to get the matt look), and absorbs a lot of the wash. You can use that - matt white base and two coats of Nuln Oil wash give a great charcoal look IMHO, but it means you can't do the classic base/wash/drybrush approach. Some people have used gloss white/wash/drybrush matt white, but I can't speak to that myself. But be careful your gloss white isn't gloopy.

The lower arm blue is for me closest to Steiner blue. Technically French Imperial Blue, or whatever Citadel call Ultramarine blue. In terms of the contrast paints, MarauderD some great results with Tallasar blue for his Lyran Guards.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, next up Lyran Guards
« Reply #3 on: 26 June 2021, 14:47:11 »
Contrast paints are really dependant on the surface underneath. If it's too 'grippy', then the contrast won't stretch over the flat parts & collect in the panel lines.

There's a reason I keep naming Grey Seer - a Citadel base - all the time. It's just about the best prime I've found, and works with pretty much anything, let alone contrasts. It's a light grey that goes on thin & smooth. Available in pot or spray can (hey, I like hand priming, it's a ritual thing - that, and painting reverses the potential carpal tunnel effects of typing, for me.)
Unfortunately i don't have that. I have big spray bottles of white and black, and brush on gray (from Army Painter). Fortunately, i'm not really planning on using white beyond these Lyran Guards. That said, i'll check if LGS has any Gray Seer Brush On the next time i'm there. Though i guess i should try that Army Painter brush on first, in case it is good enough.

That white has certainly gone on heavy! You'll get a poor result with the Apothecary White contrast paint, because the prime has filled in all the fine detail and left things glooped. Under any circumstance, I'd give that mini a trip back to the stripping pot before going further.
You don't say! It looks terrible IRL. And yes, contrast looks bad on it. I did modify it afterwards by drybrushing white on it, which improved looks a bit. Also tried Arid Earth (very pale tan) and then contrast over it, but that doesn't look right, but that might be because the 'Mech's already so messed up.

Since i don't have means of stripping minis ATM, i'll probably just give that Banshee just a black coat, or maybe just re-prime the damn thing. Doesn't really matter, it is just a test piece.

White's a bugger to work with in several ways. The biggest, I'd suggest, is providing contrast. It's the appearance of all the panel lines, and detailing, that add the perception of size to minis IMHO. A flat white mini (such as above) lacks all that contrasting detail, and looks like a plastic toy. Classic ways of getting the sense of depth include black base and repeated white drybrushes, even drawing the panel lines on with a fine tip black pen. Either way, much work, lots of bother & redoing bits that didn't work out right. Matt white paints also don't work with inks/washes the way other colours do - the surface is chalky (to get the matt look), and absorbs a lot of the wash. You can use that - matt white base and two coats of Nuln Oil wash give a great charcoal look IMHO, but it means you can't do the classic base/wash/drybrush approach. Some people have used gloss white/wash/drybrush matt white, but I can't speak to that myself. But be careful your gloss white isn't gloopy.
I'll try to remember this stuff... err, probably best i bookmark your post :P

The lower arm blue is for me closest to Steiner blue. Technically French Imperial Blue, or whatever Citadel call Ultramarine blue. In terms of the contrast paints, MarauderD some great results with Tallasar blue for his Lyran Guards.
I was leaning toward that blue. Painting two test pieces, one with Electric Blue, one with Magic Blue.

Started with white primer, and just added one third of contrast white to each. It looks OK over primer. We'll see how it goes. I'll add blues next, and then probably drybrush white over contrast, not sure.
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Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, next up Lyran Guards
« Reply #4 on: 26 June 2021, 15:12:19 »
Okay, it is clear Electric Blue is too light for the Lyran Guards. Maybe it can be drybrushed over darker blue if lighter shade is needed but otherwise not right.

Very nervous about the white-blue border. Should've opted for one-color paint scheme..

That said, next Lyran company is Donegal Guards. Shouldn't be too hard.

But my Capellans, oh dear. As it is, i've planned St. Ives Lancers, House Hiritsu and Red Lancers, none of whom have easy scheme.

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Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, next up Lyran Guards
« Reply #5 on: 26 June 2021, 15:23:57 »
I hate that border. Hate hate hate. Repairing mistakes is time consuming, need to add white and then new contrast. I need to rethink this.

Maybe i'll do Arcturan Guards instead, should be easy enough, right? Just white contrast, drybrushing, details, what else?
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worktroll

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #6 on: 26 June 2021, 16:33:54 »
It is annoying, but stick with it - try a few different things until you get confident with it. Some of my best schemes - and I'll highlight Magestrix Rangers and Tikonov Republican Guards, are contrasting colours.

Some possible tips:

1) Go over with the white; l find it easier to tidy up with the darker paint than the lighter.
2) Use a small brush. I'm currently using 5/0 for drawing the border with the lighter colour, then tidying up with the darker using a 20/0 brush.
3) When tidying up, don't put too much paint on the brush. In fact, with the darker colour, you can almost drybrush it on - although more paint on the brush than a real drybrush.

That's how I approached my Steiner Strikers. Did the red base & grey triangle, then washed with nuln oil. Then did a couple of layers of white over the grey, not being too careful. Then redid the edges in red with a ratty old small brush, using that semi-drybrush approach. With less paint on the brush, less there to go astray. And yes, there were iterative cycles, leading to

4) Recognise when it's good enough for you. Most of the flaws you're seeing won't be visible on the table, and sometimes just positioning the mini for photos can conceal that one bit you just can't seem to get where you want it to be!

And remember - the relief on the KS minis is incredible for contrast paints, washes, etc. They are joys, aren't they?

Re stripping - all you need is a wide-mouth salsa jar (sans salsa) and lid, and a can of oven cleaner. Easy-Off is the brand I use here Down Under; just don't pick the lemon-scented, or low-irritant, version. You want the real deal.

Spray a bed of foam into the jar, drop in the mini(s), spray more foam over - make a layer cake if you're stripping a bunch! Put the lid on, find somewhere you can hold the can upside down & spray into the air until it's just blowing propellant (otherwise the nozzle can jam up with dried gunk, like any aerosol). Put the jar where it won't fume your house for a couple of hours - couple of days is no problem. I then rinse all the gunk out with water, then using an old toothbrush scrub off remaining paint gunk out of the nooks and crannies. Yes, the laundry trough is a great place to do this  :thumbsup:
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #7 on: 26 June 2021, 16:42:44 »
It is annoying, but stick with it - try a few different things until you get confident with it. Some of my best schemes - and I'll highlight Magestrix Rangers and Tikonov Republican Guards, are contrasting colours.
I liked your Republican Guards a lot  :thumbsup:. Really disappointed they're not around for long. Been thinking i'll make a merc unit for the Dark Age/IlClan era that uses their scheme.

It is not the contrast that's the problem but rather that i find white-blue really difficult. Fixing issues in my Alliance Guards, which have overall way more borders, was relatively easy due to way the tans and browns work.
I'll work more on these tomorrow, though i did turn the second piece into an Arcturan Guard test. Will need to prepare another Lyran Guard test for the darker blue.

And remember - the relief on the KS minis is incredible for contrast paints, washes, etc. They are joys, aren't they?
Still working on older plastic and metallic minis, i'll move to Kickstarter Clan minis once i've done all my previous companies. Well, might skip and leave my Star League units for later.

Re stripping - all you need is a wide-mouth salsa jar (sans salsa) and lid, and a can of oven cleaner. Easy-Off is the brand I use here Down Under; just don't pick the lemon-scented, or low-irritant, version. You want the real deal.
Need to figure what's the stuff here in Finland... Well, i do need an oven cleaner anyhow, for actually cleaning the oven.
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worktroll

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #8 on: 26 June 2021, 16:47:02 »
I liked your Republican Guards a lot  :thumbsup:. Really disappointed they're not around for long. Been thinking i'll make a merc unit for the Dark Age/IlClan era that uses their scheme.

Both Holt's Hilltoppers and the Dropship Irregulars use that quartered scheme, and both have one company/battalion in red (IIRC the Irregulars have companies with blue quarters and with green quarters, and the Hilltoppers have one with yellow. But the quartering is the opposite of the Republican Guards. But whatever works on your painting table  :thumbsup: )

Quote
Still working on older plastic and metallic minis, i'll move to Kickstarter Clan minis once i've done all my previous companies. Well, might skip and leave my Star League units for later.

Militarium green contrast over Grey Seer. Scotty posted a pic recently in the FWL thread under Inner Sphere. Nails Star League olive drab.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #9 on: 26 June 2021, 16:55:34 »
Actually, i just remembered a reason i might end up making these into Arcturan Guard and do Lyran Guards later.

Kinda want to do Early Succession Wars-era Marik Militia, and Lyran Guards would be a wonderful opponent for them. Plus this gives me a better plan for BB/AGOAC/KS Spheroid plastic miniatures than what i have right now.
Admittedly i could do Arcturan Guard there though, but i also figure that by the time i get there, i'll be better and more confident painter.

The current plan is a merc unit but i'm not entirely happy with that concept. Instead, i could allocate a bunch of Republic of the Sphere 'Mechs i want for the mercs. Especially since there's no more Republic...

Militarium green contrast over Grey Seer. Scotty posted a pic recently in the FWL thread under Inner Sphere. Nails Star League olive drab.
Need to check them out. And prepare to get more paints...
Another reason to do Arcturan Guard now, as my current plan for my Star League units was ComStar white.

*cough* this kind of stuff is why my original unit allocation ideas went to trash. I keep getting "better" ideas :D

EDIT I need to check out those units you mentioned...
« Last Edit: 26 June 2021, 16:57:16 by Empyrus »
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worktroll

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #10 on: 26 June 2021, 17:27:51 »
Pure white is actually easier.

- Base Grey Seer
- Apothecary White contrast
- Drybrush with a brilliant white, not too heavy
- Details

Done! It's the borders that add difficulty.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #11 on: 27 June 2021, 09:27:55 »
Seems i may need to visit local Games Workshop store (to my surprise, there's one in Helsinki) because other stores don't have Grey Seer primer at the moment. I figure i probably don't need it but might not hurt to be prepared.
That said, i think i need to test that gray brush-on primer i have and contrast paints on it. Maybe it is good enough.


After sleeping on current project, i reckon i'll do Lyran Guards after all. They're Lyran at a glance, whereas Arcturan Guards could be taken for WoBlies or ComStar. (I don't have decals.)

So many ideas. I do want to do the Arcturan Guards at some point, and and also Marik Militia. Then again, i also really want to do Eridani Light Horse's paint scheme. The original, or something close to the original, not just Star League Drab Green. 
For reference:
https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/d/d4/Camomercseridanilighthorse.png?timestamp=20100330091447
https://unitcolorcompendium.com/2019/03/16/eridani-light-horse/

Too many ideas, not enough miniatures, time nor money for everything. The problem with leaving stuff for later is that i keep getting new ideas as well, not to mention i keep worrying about miniature availability. Ah, well, shouldn't worry, it will be as it will be.
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Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #12 on: 27 June 2021, 12:30:28 »
This is weird. Using Magic Blue thinned with few drops of water (and then mixed just to be sure). I started at the white-blue border with small detail brush. That part looks darker than rest of the blue areas! Same paint, haven't added more or anything. Essentially there's slight unintentional gradient. Now i'm wondering if i need a better blue paint, or if i'm doing something wrong.
I mean, the odds are on the latter but...

Also figured that using an old medicine bottle or such and attaching the mini on top of that with blue tack makes handing it far far easier. Noticed that some kind of holders are often used in various videos. Uncertain if those are makeshift or purpose-built.
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Death_from_above

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #13 on: 27 June 2021, 12:50:16 »
The holders could be the Citadel painting handle :

https://paintinginspired.blogspot.com/2018/11/citadel-painting-handle-review.html



As mentioned by worktroll earlier, MarauderD's Lyran Guard could also provide some inspiration :

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/miniatures/lyran-guards-2-more-minis-from-the-ks/?PHPSESSID=0egmike2p66ulttheqmjo0epfa
« Last Edit: 27 June 2021, 12:51:48 by Death_from_above »

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #14 on: 27 June 2021, 12:53:48 »
Oh, pretty sure i've seen that handle in some video certainly.
But also seen someone using some kind of putty to keep the mini in place.

As for MarauderD's stuff, nice. Need to comment on it.
And.. Talassar Blue, gotta add it to my shopping list probably.
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Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #15 on: 27 June 2021, 12:57:13 »
Yeah, so, at this point with my test.
There's some stuff to be corrected in the rear, then i guess i'll throw in some initial detail (black), see how it goes.

What i'm wondering is if i should add blue ink wash to the blue side? Seriously wish i had contrast blue though, the contrast white looks pretty good and not like it really needs a wash.

Alternatively i could go over the whole 'Mech with Nuln Oil but that might darken stuff too much. Maybe i'll test that on the other test unit...
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Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #16 on: 27 June 2021, 14:12:23 »
Going for paint shopping tomorrow.

So i'm figuring i'll be getting Grey Seer primer and perhaps the paint for "resetting" contrast paint, understood that's the best way to deal with problems.
Militarum Green for Star League.
Talassar Blue for Lyran Guard.

What would be recommended for Donegal Guards? Though i suppose contrast paints aren't necesary for those, think i do have some blue-grays already.
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Death_from_above

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #17 on: 27 June 2021, 14:19:05 »

This is Camospecs B1B Flyer using Contrast Akhelian Green (over a grey base) for his Donegal Guards :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5LEgqvcpKY

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #18 on: 27 June 2021, 14:24:33 »
That's looking pretty good! You could do a blue ink wash; just test on a patch on the back to see if it darkens the mini too much.

There's a point in mini painting, before which things don't look good. There's a certain level of details where suddenly the scheme comes into focus in your eyes. Sometimes it's at the halfway mark, more often it's not until your 80-90% done. If you added the metallic details, barrels & joints, I suspect the mini would pop.

And Arcturan Guards - one unit has tiger stripes. Simple way to consider - orange stripe, then go over one edge with a small black pen. I swear by the Uniball 0.5.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #19 on: 27 June 2021, 14:32:55 »
This is Camospecs B1B Flyer using Contrast Akhelian Green (over a grey base) for his Donegal Guards :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5LEgqvcpKY
Duh, i've watched that video! But forgot it completely. Thanks, very useful.

That's looking pretty good! You could do a blue ink wash; just test on a patch on the back to see if it darkens the mini too much.
Did try that ink on the previous mini, it didn't work well. Maybe i should've thinned it a lot, or been more careful with it, either way it ended up messy, in the wrong places kinda.
Nuln Oil on white isn't a good idea either. Looks dirty. That said, i'll try drybrushing white and blue on the bad test tomorrow, see if it'll improve.

There's a point in mini painting, before which things don't look good. There's a certain level of details where suddenly the scheme comes into focus in your eyes. Sometimes it's at the halfway mark, more often it's not until your 80-90% done. If you added the metallic details, barrels & joints, I suspect the mini would pop.
Certainly.
I guess i'll do a test patch of Nuln Oil on blue, and another ink test. If neither works, i'll just do some quick details and drybrush stuff, see how it will work.
And Arcturan Guards - one unit has tiger stripes. Simple way to consider - orange stripe, then go over one edge with a small black pen. I swear by the Uniball 0.5.
Uh, not my thing. Never been one for tiger stripe camo, let alone actual tiger stripes. That said, i probably should consider getting a black pen, might be useful.
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Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #20 on: 28 June 2021, 11:26:03 »
Turns out Grey Seer Primer (spray) is largely unvailable because of brexit. Something about aerosols being dangerous.
So, i guess i need to make due with what i've got.
Did get Talassar Blue, Militarum Green and Akhelian Green contrast paints though, and Satin Spray Varnish as well.

These should cover my Lyrans and Star League units, and hopefully my existing paints will all be suitable for my CapCon plans. Figure my year's miniature budget is essentially maxed out, especially since i still need to get the Clan Fire Star once it is out. Good bye extra V-wing for X-wing TMG for this year!
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MarauderD

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #21 on: 28 June 2021, 13:59:40 »
Yeah, so, at this point with my test.
There's some stuff to be corrected in the rear, then i guess i'll throw in some initial detail (black), see how it goes.

What i'm wondering is if i should add blue ink wash to the blue side? Seriously wish i had contrast blue though, the contrast white looks pretty good and not like it really needs a wash.

Alternatively i could go over the whole 'Mech with Nuln Oil but that might darken stuff too much. Maybe i'll test that on the other test unit...

Looks good!  I'll chime in on the Nuln Oil--it dirties up your white side too much, darkening it.  I'd use it selectively if at all.  You're probably better off finding some super bright white to accent it 'upwards' instead of using nuln oil to darken it. 

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #22 on: 28 June 2021, 14:04:07 »
Looks good!  I'll chime in on the Nuln Oil--it dirties up your white side too much, darkening it.  I'd use it selectively if at all.  You're probably better off finding some super bright white to accent it 'upwards' instead of using nuln oil to darken it.
Yeah, i figured that with another test. The Dragon looks like it fell on mud and rain washed some off.
The only bright white i got is Vallejo Dead White, which is white white. Just annoyingly goopy. But drybrushing it... well, i'm gonna try that soon.

Other stuff to do: Use grey brush on primer, new blue ink wash and Nuln Oil test on blue, drybrushing some blue on blue.
Well, the last one is maybe, do Lyran Guards blue need drybrushing?

EDIT Currently distracted by a pizza.
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Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #23 on: 28 June 2021, 14:09:05 »
Yep, done by hand, turns out to be way easier that I thought.  Blue first, take your time at the center torso/right torso meeting point.  If you have any spills, use a flat white to cover it up, then do your white contrast paint on top of your primer and flat white touch up spots.  On this batch, both the commando and archer had less than 5 minutes of touch up editing.

Oh, noticed this in your Lyran Guards thread.
I will need to keep this in mind. My initial tests were with contrast first, which is difficult to fix without restarting the process.
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #24 on: 28 June 2021, 14:35:45 »
Well, the last one is maybe, do Lyran Guards blue need drybrushing?

EDIT Currently distracted by a pizza.

Pizza can be worth distraction.  On the Talassar Blue--it does need drybrushing.  A tiny bit of a silver-blue or sky blue on the edges of the panels can really help.  The Talassar Blue contrast is a nice color but can come off a bit flat. 

Looking forward to your finished product! (And now also hungry...)

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #25 on: 28 June 2021, 14:38:39 »
Right, forgot to say i meant what i used so far, yet to use Talassar Blue.
Well, i suppose drybrushing can't make things any worse...
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #26 on: 28 June 2021, 14:54:11 »
Well, Nuln Oil on Magic Blue does work well as a wash. No point even trying that blue ink which was annoying.

Also brush-on grey primer on grey plastic mini is problematic. I have hard time telling where i painted already!

Waiting for stuff to dry is annoying. I need to work on more minis at time, probably start prototyping those Donegal Guards already.

EDIT Also note to self: Really, don't wear white while painting.
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #27 on: 28 June 2021, 15:17:51 »
Well, my Dragon test subject is beyond saving without heavy work.
Between Nuln Oil dirtied white, gradiented blue washed poorly with blue ink, despite some added detail and drybrushing, it doesn't look good. No, not even gonna grab a pic!

But my Awesome test goes ahead. If it works, i'll do a third test using contrast blue and white. Primed a Grasshopper for that.

Running out of test miniatures quickly at this rate! Fortunately i found out about what's available here that works for paint stripping.
One is something i may actually have judging by name, tossed my armless Whitworth into a container with the stuff, we'll see in few days how it goes. If it doesn't work, fortunately there's alternative: stuff that is commonly available, basically local equivalent to Pine Sol. Apparently pine oil is the important ingredient? Whatever getting some tomorrow.
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #28 on: 28 June 2021, 15:49:34 »
Test Awesome. Took pics with flash (and at low rez), wasn't a good idea. Have poor lighting ATM, and it is dark outside.
EDIT Oh, right, this Awesome has shortened arm gun barrel. It was originally bent rather badly, couldn't get hot water trick to work, so i shortened it as a test, figured it could be a -10KM model (with a Snub-nose PPC), but ultimately threw it to my test pool of 'Mechs.

Drybrushed Dead White on the white areas, blue area has Nuln Oil wash and then lighter Electric Blue drybrush. Added some black to detail areas (joints, gun barrels, antenna cockpit), added gun metal to all but cockpit.

It is a bit messy, not too carefully done, but i figure it would be OK playing piece. Will take more care with the company proper certainly. Details are tricky though, since every 'Mech is different, but i will probably keep it simple and do as did here.
That said, need to consider cockpits, especially the Zeus, Cyclops, Caesar and BattleMaster, all of which have large cockpits. Small cockpits like this Awesome's would work with black only, i think.

Unfortunately none of my available test minis possess large enough cockpit really practice jeweling. Well, at least none which are unpainted... and in case of a Cyclops, i added gloss varnish on the cockpit, as i understand getting rid of that might not be easy.
That said, i understand the principle, so i might give it a try on some 'Mech, i can always just reset stuff to black no?
« Last Edit: 28 June 2021, 15:52:53 by Empyrus »
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #29 on: 28 June 2021, 16:22:39 »
Good job on the blue/white border!

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #30 on: 28 June 2021, 16:28:29 »
Moved on the Grasshopper.
Quick Talassar Blue, then Apothecary White. Like painting with contrast paints. Need to work on avoiding pooling, but otherwise, they're nice.
Did this one pretty quickly (probably my fastest 'Mech so far). The border isn't quite clean, but that was partially because this is just a test, partially because it is really hard to figure where to stop on the Grasshopper. Should've taken a bit care on the top parts especially to avoid pooling, this lead to some gradients around the 'Mech. Will do some details and drybrushing on this one still.
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #31 on: 28 June 2021, 17:09:20 »
Having issues with file size now for some reason... I did throw phone suggested "enhancement" on account of poor lighting, but these processed images seem more accurate to what my eye says.

Anyway, some details, drybrushing. Did in that order, which is wrong maybe? Worked out fortunately.
Figure this one is essentially "ready". Grasshopper doesn't have many details to paint... or, well, not many i want to paint. Should've done the hands but that's about my limit, figure i lean toward more real, ie most stuff covered in paint. I think?
Attempted some jeweling on the cockpit, it is not great but it is a start.

So, overall process is nailed down.

-White primer (done on all units)
-Talassar Blue contrast paint, need to take it slow and steady, avoid pooling, just do another coat if the first is too light.
-White contrast paint, same process.
-Paint detail areas black.
-Drybrush white and blue. In this order, because there's more blue and it'll cover any accidental white drybrush over blue. Hopefully.
-Add gunmetal details, laser lenses, cockpit stuff, jump jets depending on the 'Mech in question.

Of course there's also base to be done but that's simple enough. Leaning toward snow for these, though not sure. Would snow suit the Donegal Guards better? The other unit will get dirt/sand base, because the Alliance Guards got grass (have three flocking types, want to use all three).
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #32 on: 28 June 2021, 17:09:37 »
Rear pic.

EDIT Noticed MarauderD used Nuln oil on missile ports. Noted, probably need to do that myself. But should i do that as the very first thing? I mean, those damn recesses... if i'm careful with contrast, would it leave missile ports alone?
« Last Edit: 28 June 2021, 17:18:14 by Empyrus »
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #33 on: 29 June 2021, 15:07:49 »
Managed to start with maybe my Lyran Guards' most difficult 'Mechs, the Vulcan and Wolfhound. Neither has good simple lines to follow for the blue-white border. So i just need to use my smallest detail brush and try to take my time. Sigh.
Happy i decided to got with the Lyran Gyards though, despite the difficulty. Seeing a couple of tests and a couple of finalists starting to take shape... the Lyran Guards paint scheme is so striking!

Leaning toward dirt base for these, leave snow for the Donegal Guard. Don't want to test flocking schemes, just in case getting rid of white glue is difficult. Figure dirt would complement the white better than white snow, as i'm not planning on using any bushes or more extensive flocking detail for these. Too many small-based Alpha Strike plastics.

I seriously need to reconsider my Red Lancers at this point, red-gold-black is not gonna be a simple scheme. I suppose i could try to stick to red mostly, and just throw black and yellow to spots that feel OK but... ah, well, jumping ahead of my self.

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #34 on: 03 July 2021, 14:38:57 »
Sigh, stuff gotten into way, my half-painted minis are just sitting on my table. And now it is hot again.

But i did get an idea, and part of that idea includes some unit roster changes, and fortunately i haven't gotten around painting basically anything yet.
In case of my Lyran Guards, they would lose the Vulcan (don't like it anyway), but gain the Hunchback i was originally intending for my planned Donegal Guards. The Caesar would also be moved away, replaced by a modified Victor from the Donegal unit.

My Donegal Guards planned roster was this:
Code: [Select]
Pursuit lance:
Uziel Medium UZL-2S
Chimera Medium CMA-1S
Hunchback Medium HBK-6S
Hellspawn Medium HSN-7D

Cavalry lance:
Thanatos Heavy TNS-4S
Bushwacker Medium BSW-X1/S2
Argus Heavy AGS-4D
Dragon Heavy DRG-7N

Assault lance:
Atlas Assault AS7-S3
Mauler Assault MAL-2R
Victor Assault VTR-10S
Awesome Assault AWS-9M

Changes would include replacing the Victor with a Caesar, the Huncback with a Raptor, and the Dragon with a Dervish, though this means my third CapCon company will have less than ideal third lance but they gotta make do (that lance has a Vindicator, Black Hawk-KU, Cossack and (non-Omni) Firestarter as it is, overall poor combination of 'Mechs).

The point of these changes is that i'm gonna turn these Donegal Guards into a FedSuns unit. The roster is very FedSuns-styled already, and these changes would make it more so, though i need to figure better Atlas variant, seems the FedSuns were basically only using old ones and the limited-upgrade AS7-S. Probably a -S2/3 or a -K, and i'll just say it was salvage or a weird trade.

This "frees" Donegal Guards paint scheme for another unit idea. Need to figure a FedSuns paint scheme still, preferably something that was probably involved in the St. Ives conflict.


Also, the pine oil-based cleaning agent is working for stripping paint. But there is some manual work involved, i wonder if i should get a soft tootbrush for removing the loose paint? Regardless, this naturally means i won't be running out of test miniatures, and i get the Dervish for actual use.
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #35 on: 03 July 2021, 16:28:43 »
What period are you aiming at for the Lyrans and this FedSun unit? The Caesar 3R is a little light to play with assaults - the 4R is a bit tougher. My only problem with the Caesar mini is the arms - they're pretty weedy. The chassis plays well with KS minis, but I had to sub the arms for something a little more pumped.

Other than that, looks good!
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #36 on: 03 July 2021, 16:56:17 »
Building all my CapCon and Lyran units with early 3060s in mind. Because of some changes to my original plan, neither has proper enemies. Off-hand, i was going for something like 4 lances per faction, and the factions being FedSuns, Lyran Alliance, CapCon and St. Ives Compact, but then i realized with some changes i could incorporate bunch of "leftovers" as well.
But whatever, i'll come up with some weird reason for these two to fight. Or maybe i'll play the Jihad and have the Word of Blake masquerading as one force...

The 3R and 4S are my options pretty much for the Caesar. The arms are awfully thing to be sure, i'm mostly worried about bending them. But it is assembled already, so no changes planned.
Current roster:
Code: [Select]
Pursuit lance:
Commando Light COM-7S
Firestarter Medium FS9-O
Wolfhound Light WLF-2
Vulcan Medium VT-5S

Assault lance:
Banshee Assault BNC-6S
BattleMaster Assault BLR-4S
Zeus Assault ZEU-9S
Cyclops Assault CP-11-A

Battle lance:
Caesar Heavy CES-3R/4S
Axman Heavy AXM-1N
Hatchetman Medium HCT-6S
Orion Heavy ON1-Mx?

This said, the Donegal Guards will stay as they are and as Donegal Guards. I threw the ideas about changing stuff away after some initial planning. There were problems, things would be so much easier if the Kickstarter miniatures were either distributed differently in the packs...
« Last Edit: 03 July 2021, 16:58:46 by Empyrus »
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #37 on: 03 July 2021, 17:55:36 »
That company ... LAAF generals look at it and say "That's a rather Steiner lance, isn't it?" :D
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* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
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* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #38 on: 03 July 2021, 18:10:41 »
Think it was about after i made these companies i started thinking i may be a Lyran fan subconsciously. They make very fine 'Mechs at times...

Hmph. The more i think about my Donegal Guards, the more the Davion units in them bother me. The Argus and Hellspawn are the issues specifically. Only i ​don't have anything fitting to replace them.
Maybe i need to do a slight exception and do some shopping and get a couple of replacements. Of course, then i'll be having an Argus and Hellspawn without home. But i cannot think of any 'Mechs i'd like as replacements.
I suppose i could fiddle with my third CapCon company a bit, make it a Blackwind Lancers company and give it these Davion designs. After all, the Blackwind Lancers ended up joining the Free Capella, and that was supported by the FedSuns for a while, so some FedSuns designs are acceptable. Doesn't make much sense before 3062 or 3063 though, which is a bit problematic. Currently the third CapCon company is very playable in 3060 or 3061, and makes OK opfor for St. Ives War.
That said, they are FedCom designs, so i guess the Donegal Guards could've gotten some, even though the Donegal Guards were very Lyran Alliance loyal.
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #39 on: 03 July 2022, 16:20:28 »
Yeah, so long break, stuff got into way but back to painting now.

Whole Lyran Guards company has now contrast paint on, Apothecary White and Talassar Blue, directly over white primer. Next steps are to fix some line issues, drybrush white and blue, and paint to-be-detailed areas black. Started the last process in some cases a bit early.
Details are going to consist mostly gunmetal areas on gun barrels, jump jet ports and occasional other detail, maybe some color for some energy weapon lenses. I'll also try to do some basic jeweling on cockpits as flat single color cockpits are boring.
Not planning to add wash on these, i don't think i have anything suitable right now. Nuln Oil and Agrax Earthshade are too strong for whole minis, and i need all my patience on other stuff so not doing targeted washes. Based on my test pieces (on the right), these don't really need wash anyway.

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #40 on: 04 July 2022, 00:34:32 »
2 things.

A. You hqve convinced me to go donegal guards instead of lyran guards. Too much effort for my body.

B. Yo strip paint, take regular pharmacy alcohol. Heat it until it starts to boil (q to 2 minutes). Doro the kini inside. Shake it. Put it under running water. While brishing it with a brush. Repeat . You strip a.miniature in less than 2 minutes

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #41 on: 04 July 2022, 03:33:56 »
2 things.

A. You hqve convinced me to go donegal guards instead of lyran guards. Too much effort for my body.
It is a lot of effort. The LG scheme looks real nice but man keeping that line straight, and avoiding drybrushing wrong color and... Yeah. And i'm just impatient enough it gets real tricky at times.

Funny enough, my next unit will be Donegal Guards.
Afterwards it will be Capellan time, but i'm pretty sure i'll scrap my plans for 2nd St. Ives Lancers and Red Lancers and instead do Rubinsky's Light Horse (blood red) and 1st MAC Nightriders (ash grey with silver trim, which i'll minimize). The reason for this is simplicity. My projects have gone on for years, i just need to finish these to move to newer minis and flat schemes are faster and simpler to do.

B. Yo strip paint, take regular pharmacy alcohol. Heat it until it starts to boil (q to 2 minutes). Doro the kini inside. Shake it. Put it under running water. While brishing it with a brush. Repeat . You strip a.miniature in less than 2 minutes
Interesting. Need to determine if local pharmacies have suitable stuff available.
That said, i figure that i have just enough extra minis i can probably do enough tests for further schemes i don't need to strip minis. But i suppose having the option is nice in case of a major mistake.
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #42 on: 05 July 2022, 15:39:27 »
Some progress.
Added jeweling to some 'Mechs, others will either do with pure black cockpits or with teeny tiny color bits. Too many small cockpits.
Found jeweling to be surprisingly easy once i understood how it is done and picked proper colors for gradients. I'm not good at it but practice practice practice.

Bases are simple dirt flocking. Keeping it simple, matching my earlier Alliance Guards with their simple grass flocking. My Donegal Guards will get snow.

Just need to finish bases on rest of the company, and these are essentially ready for varnish. Well, after the glue dries anyway.
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #43 on: 05 July 2022, 17:13:44 »
Looking great!  Nice to see the formation come together.  I've never tried to paint so many at once, that might be too daunting for me, I usually do either one or four at a time.  Bravo!

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #44 on: 05 July 2022, 17:25:49 »
Looking great!  Nice to see the formation come together.  I've never tried to paint so many at once, that might be too daunting for me, I usually do either one or four at a time.  Bravo!
I'm mildly insane probably.
My very first paint jobs were a couple of lances painted with a green and some other green. Then i did Alliance Guards company, now this. And there's four more companies on the way.

Part of the reason is that by doing many at once, i get reasonably consistent results. Four at a time would be more relaxed but i worry i get paints or shades wrong later on. Maybe this is unnecessary worry but it is what it is.
The other part of the reason is that lances aren't flexible enough. A company offers a lot of choices for smaller games.

Also i blame worktroll, his battalions are a big inspiration  ;D

EDIT My original idea was actually to expand all my companies to combined arms battalions. But i've scrapped that plan on financial and practical (eg available storage space) grounds.
« Last Edit: 05 July 2022, 17:27:37 by Empyrus »
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #45 on: 06 July 2022, 11:30:02 »
Worktroll's JOB is inspiration/scapegoat!  :D

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #46 on: 07 August 2022, 04:13:16 »
Worktroll's JOB is inspiration/scapegoat!  :D

Unsolicited testimonials always appreciated :)
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #47 on: 14 August 2022, 12:39:46 »
Some progress.
Added jeweling to some 'Mechs, others will either do with pure black cockpits or with teeny tiny color bits. Too many small cockpits.
Found jeweling to be surprisingly easy once i understood how it is done and picked proper colors for gradients. I'm not good at it but practice practice practice.

Bases are simple dirt flocking. Keeping it simple, matching my earlier Alliance Guards with their simple grass flocking. My Donegal Guards will get snow.

Just need to finish bases on rest of the company, and these are essentially ready for varnish. Well, after the glue dries anyway.
Love your Lyran Guards.

I am wanting to paint a small force of Steiner mechs, (probably a reinforced company to give me choice of 16 mechs across the 4 weight classes). Choosing the mechs as per xotl's 3028 Steiner RAT so that mechs look like Steiner at a glance.

I have watched and bookmarked that YouTube video from CamoSpecs on Donegal Guards  with Contrast paints. The Donegal Guards look great but they don't immediately scream Steiner to me from a distance, unlike the more iconic Lyran Guards.

My one concern is that, since my deteriorating eyesight, I am not sure if I would feel confident enough in my ability to straight line between the two colours to paint the side torso as white too. I might have to tweak the Lyran Guards canon scheme.

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #48 on: 14 August 2022, 12:57:44 »
I finished the Lyrans sometime ago:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/miniatures/lyran-guards-company/

My one concern is that, since my deteriorating eyesight, I am not sure if I would feel confident enough in my ability to straight line between the two colours to paint the side torso as white too. I might have to tweak the Lyran Guards canon scheme.

Regarding the line, i didn't get it entirely straight. Not really noticeable unless you're looking for it. Masking one side would allow making the line very straight in principle, though applying tape (or whatever one uses) may be tricky.

If you are worried about this, you can cheat a bit and only paint the right arm and leg white. Seen some do that. It gets the Lyran Guards paint scheme idea across even if it doesn't quite conform to the idea of "one third white, two thirds blue".
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #49 on: 14 August 2022, 13:01:33 »
Aand double checking my minis, i just realized my Axeman actually went for about 50-50% rather than intended one third white. I blame the off-set cockpit making this trickier, and that the 'Mechs torso doesn't have good natural line to get that done. Still, it is not that noticeable among others.
Also given how uneven the white-blue line on the 'Mech is, i may have rushed it a bit and/or forgotten to adjust it, i figure i probably meant to go for that 1/3rd white.
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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #50 on: 14 August 2022, 14:55:01 »
I finished the Lyrans sometime ago:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/miniatures/lyran-guards-company/

Regarding the line, i didn't get it entirely straight. Not really noticeable unless you're looking for it. Masking one side would allow making the line very straight in principle, though applying tape (or whatever one uses) may be tricky.

If you are worried about this, you can cheat a bit and only paint the right arm and leg white. Seen some do that. It gets the Lyran Guards paint scheme idea across even if it doesn't quite conform to the idea of "one third white, two thirds blue".
Actually that is exactly what I was thinking of. The quality of the new Clan Invasion KS plastic mechs is so great that I am wanting to use them. Whereas many of the older sculpts had their legs (and/or their arms) go straight up into their bodies, most of the new Clan Invasion KS resculpts have their legs and arms separately connected to the side of their bodies. Therefore it should be easier to paint one arm and one leg white as you described, leaving the side torso as blue.

I was thinking if I made them one of the non-Canon numbered Lyran Guards units, that it would make it easier to justify a difference from the usual Canon paint scheme. But hopefully still clearly identifiable as a Steiner unit.

Anyway I want to start painting my mechs small & simple with me first doing a handfull of minor mercenary / periphery / security mechs to practice my painting techniques.

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #51 on: 14 August 2022, 14:58:09 »
Variations of a theme are just fine. Off-hand the Davion Guard of Brigades has two official methods for the paint job, so why can't others have those too?

Also seen two thirds white, one third blue variation of the Lyran Guards theme. Don't think that's canonical but it is recognizable.
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Wargame_insomniac

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #52 on: 14 August 2022, 15:15:37 »
Variations of a theme are just fine. Off-hand the Davion Guard of Brigades has two official methods for the paint job, so why can't others have those too?

Also seen two thirds white, one third blue variation of the Lyran Guards theme. Don't think that's canonical but it is recognizable.
Cool - thanks.

I must admit when I eventually do any Davion mechs, then they won't be Davion Brigade of Guards - not only too diffiult for me to attempt and also too close to the Lyran Guards colour blue for my liking.

My long-term goal is to paint up several company / reinforced company size forces to use to rpresent the actual forces that were in Turning Points War of 3039: Vega. So I want one force to be clearly identifiable for each of Steiner, Davion and Kurita plus mercenaries.

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #53 on: 21 August 2022, 10:47:02 »
Ended up doing some roster changes for the Donegal Guards and my planned St. Ives unit, and in the process i modified a Hunchback to 4SP configuration with the Strider's arms, some knife work and greenstuff. Also a clear pipe with ends cut at 45 degree angle behind the head for... some reason. Maybe some cockpit systems or ammo feed routing?

EDIT A bit more on what i did:  Cut of the AC and torso above the torso detail seen in the pic (poor pic yeah), cut off the arms, cut of the head. Added the Strider arms, greenstuff filling, glued the head back on top and arms to the sides.
« Last Edit: 21 August 2022, 10:52:34 by Empyrus »
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Daryk

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #54 on: 21 August 2022, 10:55:56 »
Looks like a good match for the rest of the Hunchback's body!  :thumbsup:

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting, Lyran Guards or maybe Arcturan Guards?
« Reply #55 on: 21 August 2022, 11:08:03 »
Looks like a good match for the rest of the Hunchback's body!  :thumbsup:
I was surprised how well they matched actually. Same depth, and two of them were just about as wide as the Hunchback was originally. Since i had to cut ofo the arms and they probably lost some material, it seems roughly the same size it used to be.
I had originally planned to place the launcher-arms vertically but i determined that would be far more difficult, even if it would save more of the original Hunchback body. That would have given this a profile a bit more like the Hunchback IIC probably.

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Empyrus

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Tikonov Republican Guards WIP
« Reply #56 on: 28 August 2022, 21:15:31 »
I scrapped my Donegal Guards project. I'll save them for later, have ideas, need new minis, and want to see what the future holds for plastic minis before committing to them.

That means new paint scheme for the planned company. Considered the Arcturan Guards, Pandora/Ark-Royal Theater Militia and Tikonov Republican Guards, and currently the last one is the most likely scheme i'll do, despite some problems with it. The Arcturan Guards would be nice but i feel i'd need proper decals or figure easy way to paint "good enough" Arcturan Guard emblem to provide some contrast to the otherwise white mini. There's also that i don't have good white primer, just very old AP white rattle can i don't want to use anymore, leaving me with brush-on gray primer only. Would be fast otherwise though, as white contrast paint over white primer is simple and pretty good, and some white drybrush over it should result in reasonable look, that worked for the white third of the Lyran Guards. I think i'll skip the Arcturans for now.
I did start a PTM test mini but that didn't really work. I lack a suitably light blue for drybrushing, and Nuln Oil wash didn't work over VGC Electric Blue, and i don't have a ready to use blue wash option. Probably not gonna bother to finish it, nor do a better second test. Besides, my company's a bit too well equipped for a militia unit.
New paints and primers are not really an option right now, so this leaves me with the Tikonov Republican Guard.

This test Panther is not part of the company proper. Brush-on gray primer, that ended up problematic but i've already primed the company with it, with VGC Bloody Red and AP Necromancer Cloak. Two borders is so frustrating and requires patience. I hated the border with the Lyran Guards, this is worse, but i really don't have a better idea for a paint scheme, gone through all the Lyran schemes.
Next step would be Nuln Oil wash, though i need to be careful not to over-do it. Then some VGC Gore Red drybrushing over red areas. For details, some gunmetal to the missile launcher, PPC and some joints and jump jets, with black to JJ interiors and front the PPC, and finally green for the canopy.

Incidentally that HBK-4SP i modded previously is in this company.

EDIT Incidentally, i blame Worktroll for TRG being my primary pick, in addition to my paint selection limiting my options among the schemes i like  ;D
Liked his unit quite a bit.
« Last Edit: 28 August 2022, 21:21:24 by Empyrus »
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worktroll

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Re: Tikonov Republican Guards WIP
« Reply #57 on: 29 August 2022, 03:33:45 »
EDIT Incidentally, i blame Worktroll

Why not, everyone else does ...

Seriously, the Tiks are still one of my favourites. Strong contrast schemes like that are just so eye-catching, and the black works because you can overlap your reds and then clean up so easily, without worrying about bleedthrough. Then you've got the black/green contrasts on the Capellan Dragoons and Magistracy Highlanders.

One thing to think about - do a very, very light ghostbrush of a light-medium grey on the black parts - just to add some highlights to the edges. Then hit with the nuln oil, and it all blends.
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Re: Tikonov Republican Guards WIP
« Reply #58 on: 29 August 2022, 08:21:28 »
One thing to think about - do a very, very light ghostbrush of a light-medium grey on the black parts - just to add some highlights to the edges. Then hit with the nuln oil, and it all blends.
Ghostbrushing and highlights, that one i'm not entirely sure how to do this. If i do imagine it right, it should be a good addition for sure. But how to get stuff just to the edges of right places, not anywhere else?

Think i need to find some vids and pay attention to how brush is held and whatever else...

EDIT Wait, you mean just drybrushing? That i can do, though i still need to work on my technique.
« Last Edit: 29 August 2022, 09:00:52 by Empyrus »
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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #59 on: 29 August 2022, 09:42:28 »
So, drybrushing VGC Sombre Gray over the current "black", specifically aiming for edges looks actually great.
The problem is that Nuln Oil wash stained the red way too much, completely unacceptable. Can't get it run where it should, i need that Citadel wash thinner medium thing probably.
Added a new layer of Bloody Red over the red areas and that looks sorta okay but not really what i want.

I can't help but feel i should do wash over primer as the red is just translucent enough a wash might be visible under it, in the places it should be in: recesses, panel lines and the like, not bother at all with wash over actual paint layers.

I'll prep another test mini but i have a feeling this scheme requires more skill to pull off well than i have yet. I will add details next, see if it'll look better with those but i'm not hopeful.

Unfortunately i have no real options for Lyrans anymore, and this company so Lyran (well, strictly FedCom but mostly Lyran half) i can't paint it in anyone else's colors.
Alliance Guards done. Lyran Guards done. Donegal Guards i want for later. Arcturan Guards and PTM need stuff i don't have.
The only other option i can think of are the Lyran Regulars BUT i'll be doing similar green schemes in the future so i really want something different, so they aren't a real option.
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Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #60 on: 29 August 2022, 13:41:53 »
So, finished the Panther test. Nuln oil stained it, so i added another layer red but still not happy with it. Too bright red. Have problems with my green paints, so green cockpit was a no-go, and yellow was difficult.
Did another test with VGC Gory Red, a bit darker one. This is better. There is no wash, i tried was over primer and then red but this isn't translucent enough for that to work. Drybrushed with VGC Sombre Gray over the black areas (AP Necromancer Cloak still), tried drybrushing Bloody Red over red but i don't think that succeeded at all, red is difficult. Some gun metal for quick details (i'll do them more carefully for the company proper), some blues to cockpit.
Uncertain about this scheme. It feels like it needs a wash to to improve the red areas, but it absolutely shouldn't darken the red raised areas, just the recesses. I don't have patience to go over each line with a small brush.

Pics are too bright (especially reds) because HDR seems to be the culprit, will take future pics without that mode.
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Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #61 on: 29 August 2022, 16:58:04 »
Did a Donegal Guards test. It failed badly. Had wrong base color, let contrast paint (Akhelian Green) pool too much, and my drybrush color choice was wrong and went on too strong anyway. I was basing my attempt on a CamoSpecs video but i evidently don't have proper base color and drybrush color options available.

Did paint a Sandworm token (pic attached) for Dune board game while waiting for stuff to dry, and determined that Agrax Earthshade is far, far easier to use than Nuln Oil. (Both are something like 5-6 year old bottles.)
This lead me to test, with some encouragement from BT Discord, to try Agrax Earthshade on the earlier test minis and it is exactly what it needed to look better, especially over red. I did go over gray-black areas as well, which gives it a bit dirty look but that's OK, i'll just do brownish desert base so it explains the dirty looks.

So, now i have the process clear:
VGC Gore Red over two quarters of a 'Mech, then AP Necromancer Cloak over the other quarters. Drybrush VGC Sombre Gray over dark areas, and VGC Bloody Red over red areas, in so far it actually does something. Then, Agrax Earthshade wash. Finally details like cockpit.
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Wargame_insomniac

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #62 on: 30 August 2022, 12:38:34 »
Did a Donegal Guards test. It failed badly. Had wrong base color, let contrast paint (Akhelian Green) pool too much, and my drybrush color choice was wrong and went on too strong anyway. I was basing my attempt on a CamoSpecs video but i evidently don't have proper base color and drybrush color options available.
What base did you use?

From memory for the CamoSpecs Donegal Guards Video. they brush painted a light grey layer over the initial white primer spray. I think he said that the light grey was to push the Akhelian Green into a more blue grey colour.

I am curious how Akhelian Green would look over either a proper white primer (e.g. GW's new White Scar) or over light (e.g GW's Wraithbone).

I am trying to decide between Akhelian Green and Terradon Turqoise for a future painting Project. Ironically it seems the fomer is more blue-ish and the latter is more green-ish.


Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #63 on: 30 August 2022, 13:32:21 »
What base did you use?

From memory for the CamoSpecs Donegal Guards Video. they brush painted a light grey layer over the initial white primer spray. I think he said that the light grey was to push the Akhelian Green into a more blue grey colour.

I had gray brush-on primer, and over it VGC Wolf Grey. It was too light i'd say, or not grey enough. But it may be that i didn't control pooling enough and that made things look too saturated, too blue. And then i made it worse with wrong choice of drybrush, that didn't complement the existing color but clashed with it instead. Forget which gray it was but didn't work.

Did check the vid afterwards more carefully, i evidently need to pick my colors more carefully for any next attempt.
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Wargame_insomniac

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #64 on: 30 August 2022, 14:36:18 »
I had gray brush-on primer, and over it VGC Wolf Grey. It was too light i'd say, or not grey enough. But it may be that i didn't control pooling enough and that made things look too saturated, too blue. And then i made it worse with wrong choice of drybrush, that didn't complement the existing color but clashed with it instead. Forget which gray it was but didn't work.

Did check the vid afterwards more carefully, i evidently need to pick my colors more carefully for any next attempt.
It sounds as if Akhelian Green is one of the trickier contrast colours. It says it is a green yet can come out blue or blue-grey.

The more I have looked into Akhelian Green, the more I lean towards Terradon Torquoise to, ironically given the names, get a greener tint!

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #65 on: 30 August 2022, 14:59:13 »
It sounds as if Akhelian Green is one of the trickier contrast colours. It says it is a green yet can come out blue or blue-grey.

The more I have looked into Akhelian Green, the more I lean towards Terradon Torquoise to, ironically given the names, get a greener tint!

Akhelian Green is a Teal color (i.e., a dark blue green).  For the Donegal Guards I would switch out the Akhelian Green and give the new Stormfiend color a try, thinned a bit with Contrast medium to make it more translucent.



Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #66 on: 30 August 2022, 15:04:49 »
Interesting, will keep this stuff in mind if i do Donegals in the future.
Unfortunately not progress with TRG today, had too much other stuff to do. Painted other Dune tokens, and worked to get my Vallejo greens to mix, they had separated in their bottles.

I've determined i need a jade green paint for House Hiritsu once i get around to them. The new Aeldari Emerald contrast seemed right to my eye, at least over white primer. Any opinions? And what would be suitable alternatives, and over what primer?
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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #67 on: 31 August 2022, 03:44:44 »
That Shogun's looking pretty good!

One more step (well, I suppose 2):

- Before the Agrax wash, paint areas you want to be metallic black. To me, that's things like joints, weapon barrels, heat sinks ... so on the Shogun's front, things like the grilles on the hipjoints, and the balls at the knees. Obviously you only need to paint black on the red bits ;)
- Then, after the wash, drybrush metallic paint (again, I'd go gunmetal, leadbelcher, other not silvery metal) over those black bits. You get the metal top, & dark inner bits. I think that adds a lot to the final mini.

And re Donegal Guards - I did these back in 2013, and think they still stand up pretty well for their age.



Very basic paintscheme: a blue-grey base (Prussian blue, IIRC, not Imperial Blue), detailing, and a faint white ghostbrush to just bring up the edges:



* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Daryk

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #68 on: 31 August 2022, 04:39:25 »
They're holding up well indeed!  8)

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #69 on: 31 August 2022, 09:01:47 »
That Shogun's looking pretty good!

One more step (well, I suppose 2):

- Before the Agrax wash, paint areas you want to be metallic black. To me, that's things like joints, weapon barrels, heat sinks ... so on the Shogun's front, things like the grilles on the hipjoints, and the balls at the knees. Obviously you only need to paint black on the red bits ;)
- Then, after the wash, drybrush metallic paint (again, I'd go gunmetal, leadbelcher, other not silvery metal) over those black bits. You get the metal top, & dark inner bits. I think that adds a lot to the final mini. [/img]
The Shogun's just a test mini, it "donated" its PPC for my Stalker to be a HGR, and i added some green paints to its base yesterday for testing purposes. Wonder what it'll be a test for next... probably should get around stripping various test minis for re-use.

As for metallic bits, yeah, what you described is the plan indeed, and i intend to do that for the final company. But skipped this for test pieces to save some time and effort.


Got a box for making a wet palette. Seems simple enough, and it seems it should help a lot with painting.
-The idea is simple, if someone who doesn't know about wet palettes reads this:
-Get a plastic box, not very deep and ideally something with a lid.
-Put several layers of tissue paper inside, eg a square piece folded twice.
-Add some water, not much but to make the tissue paper damp.
-And finally, add a piece of parchment paper (baking paper?) on top of the tissue paper. Not wax paper. Palette is done.

Ideally, this keeps paints usable for a long time, and thins them as well. Close the lid when not in use, should be apparently usable for weeks. Add water if it dries out.
This vid is where i found out about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96mjmqWTPfM
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Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #70 on: 31 August 2022, 17:28:06 »
Progress. All have gotten base red, adding gray-black. Afterwards, i'll go back to red, second layer as needed, touch up borders etc.
Then it is probably time to add black for detail areas, and then wash.

The Atlas will get golden head. People often go for white but i decided i'll channel some bling and 1st Tikonov Republican Guards and make it golden.

Upper right has legs of my test pieces in case someone wonders.

Here's the company lineup. Haven't sorted them to lances yet, just picked base variants and noted roles BV for baseline pilots. Current lances are as they are because each one got a 3/5, 4/6, 5/8 and 6/9 mover.
Most expensive company of my done and planned companies in BV. Having assault 'Mechs does that...
Not entirely Lyran lineup (eg the Argus, Hellspawn), this is a result of me altering my original plans heavily. These were going to be Donegal Guards originally for whom some of these 'Mechs would've made more sense (the 5th Donegal Guards for example were among the first units to receive Argus near beginning of the FedCom Civil War), but i don't think these are entirely unsuitable for theh Tikonov Republican Guards.
Code: [Select]
Lance:
Uziel Medium UZL-3S Striker 1189
Bushwacker Medium BSW-X1 Skirmisher 1223
Atlas Assault AS7-S2/S3 Sniper 2378 (both)
Awesome Assault AWS-9M Brawler 1812

Lance:
Dragon Heavy DRG-7N Skirmisher 1495
Chimera Medium CMA-1S Striker 1173
Mauler Assault MAL-2R Juggernaut 1586
Thanatos Heavy TNS-4T Skirmisher 1760

Lance:
Stalker Assault STK-8S Juggernaut 2020
Hunchback Medium HBK-4SP Juggernaut 1043
Argus Heavy AGS-4D Skirmisher 1638
Hellspawn Medium HSN-7D Missile Boat 1220

18709

Also got myself that Aeldari Emerald contrast paint and it works brilliantly over silver base coat (and that was over gray primer in my test). Nigh perfect metallic jade for the House Hiritsu, and takes almost no effort. Wet palette made painting silver real easy, and the Aeldari Emerald is extremely easy and pleasant to paint.
Will post pic later.

Also determined that Militarum Green contrast over creates pretty good grayish-green look. More green than gray but close enough, can probably improved with some drybrushed gray. Should be good base for 1st or 2nd St. Ives Lancers.
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Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #71 on: 31 August 2022, 18:55:29 »
Right, the House Hiritsu test. The jade color in the pic is more blue-tinted than how i perceive the color in reality, i blame my phone camera. EDIT oh, right, i had added satin varnish to this before taking this pic, wanted to test its effect on the metallic color. It doesn't seem to altered the metallic look fortunately.
Decided to be frugal and tested the Militarum Green on the side of the mini.

So, Citadel Aeldari Emeral contrast paint over VGC Silver, if someone wants easy metallic green. Other metal bases probably work as well.
« Last Edit: 31 August 2022, 19:01:30 by Empyrus »
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Wargame_insomniac

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #72 on: 01 September 2022, 06:53:35 »
Progress. All have gotten base red, adding gray-black. Afterwards, i'll go back to red, second layer as needed, touch up borders etc.
Then it is probably time to add black for detail areas, and then wash.

The Atlas will get golden head. People often go for white but i decided i'll channel some bling and 1st Tikonov Republican Guards and make it golden.

Upper right has legs of my test pieces in case someone wonders.

Here's the company lineup. Haven't sorted them to lances yet, just picked base variants and noted roles BV for baseline pilots. Current lances are as they are because each one got a 3/5, 4/6, 5/8 and 6/9 mover.
Most expensive company of my done and planned companies in BV. Having assault 'Mechs does that...
Not entirely Lyran lineup (eg the Argus, Hellspawn), this is a result of me altering my original plans heavily. These were going to be Donegal Guards originally for whom some of these 'Mechs would've made more sense (the 5th Donegal Guards for example were among the first units to receive Argus near beginning of the FedCom Civil War), but i don't think these are entirely unsuitable for theh Tikonov Republican Guards.
Code: [Select]
Lance:
Uziel Medium UZL-3S Striker 1189
Bushwacker Medium BSW-X1 Skirmisher 1223
Atlas Assault AS7-S2/S3 Sniper 2378 (both)
Awesome Assault AWS-9M Brawler 1812

Lance:
Dragon Heavy DRG-7N Skirmisher 1495
Chimera Medium CMA-1S Striker 1173
Mauler Assault MAL-2R Juggernaut 1586
Thanatos Heavy TNS-4T Skirmisher 1760

Lance:
Stalker Assault STK-8S Juggernaut 2020
Hunchback Medium HBK-4SP Juggernaut 1043
Argus Heavy AGS-4D Skirmisher 1638
Hellspawn Medium HSN-7D Missile Boat 1220

18709

Also got myself that Aeldari Emerald contrast paint and it works brilliantly over silver base coat (and that was over gray primer in my test). Nigh perfect metallic jade for the House Hiritsu, and takes almost no effort. Wet palette made painting silver real easy, and the Aeldari Emerald is extremely easy and pleasant to paint.
Will post pic later.

Also determined that Militarum Green contrast over creates pretty good grayish-green look. More green than gray but close enough, can probably improved with some drybrushed gray. Should be good base for 1st or 2nd St. Ives Lancers.
Well done on progress. My parcel containing spray primer, some constast paints and extra brushes arrived this morning. Will be trying to get set up for making a start over the weekend.

St Ives Lancers is one the companies I am planning. Gives me an excuse to play some Capellan mechs without going full-Liao. So I am certainly interested in how to get a good grey green easily, especially if contrast paint.

Empyrus

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #73 on: 01 September 2022, 08:28:22 »
St Ives Lancers is one the companies I am planning. Gives me an excuse to play some Capellan mechs without going full-Liao. So I am certainly interested in how to get a good grey green easily, especially if contrast paint.
I'll try to prime another test mini today, and now that i have wet palette, i may be able to get the gray primer applied better. The current Tikonovs have the primer a bit too thickly at times  :(
Another i'll prime black and then do some gray base coat to see how that contrast works on that.

That said, Worktroll's method seems easy enough:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/miniatures/combined-arms-company-2nd-st-ives-lancers-fccw-era/msg1546841/#msg1546841
Quote
So the St Ives Lancers. Colours are green-tinted grey with jade highlights. Method:

- base light green
- wash with black ink (got to restock on Nuln Oil!)
- Green details
- Black anything to be made metallic
- Wash with black ink
- drybrush metal bits
- 'jewel' cockpits
It seems Nuln Oil may alter a light green's color enough to turn it into "grey-green". Unfortunately none of the non-contrast greens available for me seem to be suitable base color for this.
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Wargame_insomniac

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #74 on: 01 September 2022, 13:18:07 »
I'll try to prime another test mini today, and now that i have wet palette, i may be able to get the gray primer applied better. The current Tikonovs have the primer a bit too thickly at times  :(
Another i'll prime black and then do some gray base coat to see how that contrast works on that.

That said, Worktroll's method seems easy enough:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/miniatures/combined-arms-company-2nd-st-ives-lancers-fccw-era/msg1546841/#msg1546841It seems Nuln Oil may alter a light green's color enough to turn it into "grey-green". Unfortunately none of the non-contrast greens available for me seem to be suitable base color for this.
Thanks - on both counts

sounguru

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Re: Back to painting... now with Tikonov Republican Guard
« Reply #75 on: 17 October 2022, 09:14:59 »
Kind of read through the whole thing and I want to give you another route that might help you on your whites...

Prime White I use Krylon matte white primer almost exclusively have for years. I also use gray and black. Any white primer that has a fine pigment should do just don't over prime keep it light and make several passes letting it fully dry between.

Now here is the change up....

Cooler White color: Mix a little light gray into your white say 75% gray to 25% white and using a gloss medium or flo aid and a touch of water to thin. Now cover the entire area well with the mix and let dry. Go back and panel paint with same mixture just add a little more white to get half way between the first mix and pure white. Now again try to hit about half way between and highlight with that mix. Then use pure white for the final highlight. This will give you panel lines and a cool white look to the entire mini. If you glaze on the highlights the center of the panels will be slightly darker and go bright white towards the highlights the panel lines will be a light gray but stand in contrast to the panels.

Warm White Color: Do the same but use Bone as the base instead of gray. You can use something like a flesh wash by Army painter to pop the panel lines after the first coat if you want more pop to the lines.

Hope maybe this will help and give you another way of looking at it.
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