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Author Topic: (Answered) Basements  (Read 423 times)

ShroudedSciuridae

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(Answered) Basements
« on: 24 September 2021, 12:27:19 »

I want to make sure I have this right, because if I do I think the rule could use a little tweek.

A 100 ton Atlas moves into a previously undamaged CF 11 house.  The MechWarrior succeeds at his PSR so takes no damage from this, but the house takes Tonnage/10=10 damage to CF, leaving it with CF 1 (TW pp167-168 "Mechs and Vehicles").  But wait, you forgot you're on the planet Kansas where every building has a basement! Because the tonnage of the Atlas at Level 0 is greater than the building hex's CF at the start of the current Ground Movement Phase (11) it automatically falls as it collapses the basement, taking 20 damage in a Level 1 basement (100 tons/10)*(Level 1+1) (TW p. 68 "Falling Damage" & 179 "Basements").

Absolutely embarrassing, but to a Atlas 20 points isn't a big deal .  "A collapsed basement will not automatically collapse the building hex but the building hex will take damage equal to the tonnage of the falling unit," 10 CF in this case. Building only has CF 1 left, so it collapses as well (TW p. 179 "Basements").

Except, and here's the part I have a question with, TW p. 176 "Basements and Collapse" states that "A unit in a basement when the building above it collapses is destroyed." An Atlas that has fallen over is completely in the basement.  Is that Atlas destroyed? Is there no way for the Atlas to climb out of that bit of rubble?  If the building was CF 10 the sentence before it would apply, "if the collapse occurs as a unit moves into the building hex at Level 0 for the first time in the scenario, the controlling player need not make a basement roll" because the building collapse fills the basement and leaves the still standing Atlas standing on rubble not only undestroyed but damage free from that first PSR. If a vehicle or infantry is in the basement, I can see unit destruction, but BattleMechs should be hardy, tall and potentially dexterous enough to stand back up.

On the topic of basements TW. 179 says "basements...can work to a unit's advantage...a Mech might use a basement hex for partial cover" but provides no method for a Mech to enter a building known to have a basement without falling down through the supposedly advantageous basement. Does such a mechanism exist?  If not, it should. The way I’m understanding these rules that little 11CF house becomes instant death for any Mech 55 tons and above.

 

« Last Edit: 27 September 2021, 11:48:15 by Xotl »

Xotl

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Re: (Research) Basements
« Reply #1 on: 27 September 2021, 11:48:09 »
You have the right of it; the basements rules are the subject of a decent number of jokes and comments for a reason.

I'd only note that in any scenario you make, basements can be specifically declared as absent per p. 179.  Only in scenarios where it is left undefined (or they are specifically stated as existing) do you roll for them.  So while TW doesn't have optional rules per se, the status of basements is left up to the players to define.

On the topic of basements TW. 179 says "basements...can work to a unit's advantage...a Mech might use a basement hex for partial cover" but provides no method for a Mech to enter a building known to have a basement without falling down through the supposedly advantageous basement. Does such a mechanism exist?  If not, it should. The way I’m understanding these rules that little 11CF house becomes instant death for any Mech 55 tons and above.

You can enter a basement (once revealed) as any other Sublevel 1 hex.  Instant destruction only comes from the building falling on top of you while you're in it.  Standard partial cover rules then apply: if the shooter is higher up (say, at street level), there's no cover.
« Last Edit: 02 October 2021, 21:30:45 by Xotl »
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ShroudedSciuridae

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Re: (Answered) Basements
« Reply #2 on: 30 September 2021, 07:12:51 »
Thank you. For clarity can you tell me if I have this right?

A 20 ton Locust starts off his turn adjacent and facing a Medium CF 40 building with a known basement. He wants to hunker down in that basement for cover and concealment. He spends 2 MP (base+2 for Medium Building) to enter the hex and 1 MP to go down a level into the basement. He makes his PSR at +1 (Medium building & Moved 1-2 hexes in turn, TW p. 167) so he takes no damage.

- Does the building take damage (Tonnage/10=2) when he enters the hex and when he goes down a level, or just the one time that turn?
- If the enemy attacks the Locust and reduces the building CF to 0 the Locust will be subject to Collapse damage but as long as he is standing in the basement and not prone, he will not be automatically destroyed?
« Last Edit: 30 September 2021, 07:14:23 by ShroudedSciuridae »

Xotl

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Re: (Answered) Basements
« Reply #3 on: 02 October 2021, 21:31:44 »
Two PSRs are made.

Automatically destroyed because it's in a basement when the building above collapses.
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ShroudedSciuridae

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Re: (Answered) Basements
« Reply #4 on: 04 October 2021, 18:03:10 »
Wait, a Mech standing in a basement is also destroyed in the event of a building collapse? The rules on that might need some more specificity then as I didn't get that impression reading them. My take away was a unit totally in a basement; prone in Level 1 basement, or in a Level 2 basement.