Author Topic: Small Craft for colonization  (Read 8262 times)

Cowdragon

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Small Craft for colonization
« on: 08 June 2012, 08:38:33 »
Taking ideas from here http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,19904.0.html and here http://now.msn.com/now/0531-mars-colony.aspx I wanted to come up with something similar.

Here's the premise. You buy a one way ticket to target planet. You and 9 other people will live there forever. Your little colony ship will have all you need to survive for a long while. But the REAL strength is that it won't just be the 10 of you. If all goes correctly, 50 or more may all drop planetside at the same time, giving you a decent population to work with until the next wave shows up. Each one is a permanent power  station, garden, etc. Note that the engines cannot reach escape velocity? This is how it can cram on so many tons of stuff. These craft are unarmed, lightly armored, and affordable.

There will be more specialized hospital droppers to come. Note that these are still so expensive that governments will need to subsidize them, however they will hopefull be more doable as all the eggs won't be in one basket.

Code: [Select]
                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Colony Dropper
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       Spheroid Small Craft
Rules:             Level 1, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              200 tons
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       2
Maximum Thrust:    3
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          None
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Colony Dropper
Mass:              200 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                           26.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 2
      Maximum Thrust: 3
Structural Integrity: 5                                                  2.00
Total Heat Sinks:    10 Single                                           4.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                      10.50
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                  1.50
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (200 days supply)                                        10.00
Armor Type:  Standard  (100 total armor pts)                             5.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 29
   Left/Right Sides:                  25/25
   Aft:                                  21

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Cargo (1)                                                    30.00
           Hydroponics/Fish Run (1) with 2 doors                         9.00


Crew and Passengers:
      3 Officers (0 minimum)                                            30.00
      7 1st Class Passengers                                            70.00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.00%)                                                2.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                     Heat: 0    200.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        5,810,200 C-Bills
Battle Value:      217
Cost per BV:       26,775.12
Weapon Value:      0 (Ratio = .00)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 0;  MRV = 0;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 1,080
                   (220 Structure, 760 Life Support, 100 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 8,775  (813% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      MP: 2,  Armor/Structure: 3 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: DS;  Point Value: 2


On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
Pie or Spehs and Tanks also BA

Cowdragon

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #1 on: 08 June 2012, 08:39:32 »
also, should there be dedicated vehicle bays? Or can this be covered with the 30 tons of cargo? And would it be better to design them as 200 small craft or 200 ton dropships?

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
Pie or Spehs and Tanks also BA

serack

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #2 on: 08 June 2012, 10:48:10 »
i would dedicate vehicle bay and rest as cargo

Fireangel

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #3 on: 08 June 2012, 11:38:34 »
I might go as far as making all quarters 7-ton or 5-ton, to make more room for cargo. At 10x7, you gain 30 tons; at 5x10 you gain 50 tons... enough for a light vehicle bay to carry an all-purpose construction vehicle with a few small support vees in the construction vehicle's cargo hold.

Since the colonists will have access to the ship carrying the SC, they really won't need the heavy-duty "first class" facilities. Furthermore, once landed, they are expected to start building their own homes, so they won't be using the quarters that long. The long-term benefits of each colony SC carrying its own construction/farming vehicle will certainly outweigh the desire for short-term comfort.

also, should there be dedicated vehicle bays?

Yes, as stated above. Note that a 50-ton multi-purpose vehicle can easily have a 10-ton cargo area which can be used to carry several smaller vehicles such as light (i.e. "small support") cars, motorcycles, ATV's, boats... all the way up to stuff like Ferret-type VTOLs and Boomerang Spotter Plane "cropdusters".

Quote
Or can this be covered with the 30 tons of cargo?

Theoretically, yes, but it would be better to have the "I need to use it now" utility/construction vehicle ready to go right off the ramp.

The 30 tons should be used for more pressing concerns, such as at least 200 days of consumable supplies (little over six months) to cover the time until the first crops come in, with a comfortable margin if the first crop fails. Also needed would be the grains and essential supplies to start building and plowing immediately.

Quote
And would it be better to design them as 200 small craft or 200 ton dropships?

The primary colony "droppers" should be 200-ton spheroid small craft as detailed above. These could be supplemented with 200-ton aerodyne models that instead of colonists, bring additional supplies and construction equipment. The spheroid ship's first priority after landing could be clearing a runway for these aerodynes (if one is not readily available as a flat expanse), which should have higher thrust to make orbit if necessary. A single aerodyne could be sent per wave.

Conversely, instead of the aerodyne SC, an aerodyne or spheroid dropship up to 500 tons could be used for the same purpose.

I strongly recommend that the primary droppers be small craft, since a) they are significantly cheaper to build than dropships (no x28 multiplier) and B) there seems to be some confusion in the rules as to whether or not 200-ton dropships can be carried in small craft bays... despite the canonical existence of the K-1 dropshuttle.

Cowdragon

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #4 on: 08 June 2012, 15:14:04 »
Fantastic input folks! Thanks! Also, I'm was hoping you would post Fireangel. You seem to be the aerotech expert around these parts. I hope this one addresses all of the issues.

It already had 10 tons of food/water supplies (200 days) so I left that alone. Left the cargo hold alone as well, at 30 tons. Lots for grain, building materials, fist aid supplies, entertainment equipment, brewing equipment, solar/wind generators, cables to run between the droppers fusion engines and whatever they need to run off of them, etc. Lowered the armor by one ton; which raised the weight of the hydroponics/fish run to an even 10 tons. http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/aquaponics.jpg Then I lowered the weight of the crew/passenger quarters to 5 tons each. This can be somewhat countered by the mothership's grav-decks etc during the long transit between stars, and once on the ground they will have an entire planet to run around on. As suggested, this opened up 50 tons more which I used for 1 small vehicle bay. Farm and construction vehicles, plus 4-wheelers, personal hovercraft, small trucks, etc can be crammed onto these. I'm guessing each dropper would be loaded with something different to maximize the colony's potential. Even mining equipment/vehicles should be loaded on at least a few of these.

here's the primary colony dropper redone!

Code: [Select]
                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Colony Dropper
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       Spheroid Small Craft
Rules:             Level 3, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              200 tons
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       2
Maximum Thrust:    3
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          None
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Colony Dropper
Mass:              200 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                           26.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 2
      Maximum Thrust: 3
Structural Integrity: 5                                                  2.00
Total Heat Sinks:    10 Single                                           4.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                      10.50
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                  1.50
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (200 days supply)                                        10.00
Armor Type:  Standard  (84 total armor pts)                              4.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 24
   Left/Right Sides:                  21/21
   Aft:                                  18

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Cargo (1)                                                    30.00
           Construction/Farm Vehicles (1) with 2 doors                  50.00
           Hydropinics/Fish Run (1) with 2 doors                        10.00


Crew and Passengers:
     10 Crew/Passengers                                                 50.00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.00%)                                                2.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                     Heat: 0    200.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        5,770,200 C-Bills
Battle Value:      315
Cost per BV:       18,318.1
Weapon Value:      0 (Ratio = .00)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 0;  MRV = 0;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 1,079
                   (219 Structure, 760 Life Support, 100 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 5,630  (522% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      MP: 2,  Armor/Structure: 2 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: DS;  Point Value: 3
/code]

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
Pie or Spehs and Tanks also BA

Cowdragon

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #5 on: 08 June 2012, 15:29:13 »
Here's the Hospital Dropper. Now as these will hopefully each have at least one full-fledged doctor on board, plus other various trained medical personnel who will double as the ships crew, a few things had to be done. The vehicle bays had to be removed. No need for them. Even rescue and ambulance services can be pulled from other vehicles performing double duty. The 30 tons of cargo is mostly taken up with medical supplies. Antibiotics, bandages, surgical equipment, sterile disposables (gowns, gloves, catheters, etc). It has a full-fledge hospital/surgery bay that can house up to 5 patients indefinitely. This is the hospital until one can be built planetside! It has the only true medical facilities these colonists will see for a long time. It also has overworked medical staff, depending on the situation the colony will be facing. Therefore, to lure medical professionals to the colony, slightly bigger quarters are on board. These folks will not be out building roads, runways, housing, or starting farms and mines. These folks will be tending to first aid issues that will begin immediately. Broken bones, scrapes, research on local bacteria and viruses, pregnancies, etc. Although the living quarters are only 1 ton bigger each, it gives them a lot more "space" to move around in once off duty. Possibly a few extra entertainment amenities. And although building a proper ground based hospital and housing for the medical staff will be a priority, it still gives them just a little more space to move around in both in transit and once planetside. These poor folks won't get to be outside breathing the fresh air like most of the other colonists will be.

Here's what I have so far...
Code: [Select]
                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Hospital Dropper
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       Spheroid Small Craft
Rules:             Level 3, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              200 tons
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       2
Maximum Thrust:    3
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          None
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Hospital Dropper
Mass:              200 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                           26.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 2
      Maximum Thrust: 3
Structural Integrity: 5                                                  2.00
Total Heat Sinks:    10 Single                                           4.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                      10.50
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                  1.50
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (200 days supply)                                        10.00
Armor Type:  Standard  (84 total armor pts)                              4.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 22
   Left/Right Sides:                  21/21
   Aft:                                  20

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Cargo (1)                                                    30.00
           Hopsital - 5 beds (1) with 2 doors                           50.00


Crew and Passengers:
     10 Crew/Passengers/Medical Personnel                               60.00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.00%)                                                2.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                     Heat: 0    200.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        5,760,200 C-Bills
Battle Value:      315
Cost per BV:       18,286.35
Weapon Value:      0 (Ratio = .00)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 0;  MRV = 0;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 1,079
                   (219 Structure, 760 Life Support, 100 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 5,630  (522% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      MP: 2,  Armor/Structure: 2 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: DS;  Point Value: 3

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
Pie or Spehs and Tanks also BA

Fireangel

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #6 on: 08 June 2012, 16:08:08 »
Fantastic input folks! Thanks! Also, I'm was hoping you would post Fireangel. You seem to be the aerotech expert around these parts. I hope this one addresses all of the issues.

Aerotech expert? Hardly; there are a few worthier of the title.  O:-)

Quote
It already had 10 tons of food/water supplies (200 days) so I left that alone.

Y'know how it happens that you read something several times and manage to miss that one line of essential info?   @p?

Quote
Left the cargo hold alone as well, at 30 tons. Lots for grain, building materials, fist aid supplies, entertainment equipment, brewing equipment, solar/wind generators, cables to run between the droppers fusion engines and whatever they need to run off of them, etc. Lowered the armor by one ton; which raised the weight of the hydroponics/fish run to an even 10 tons. http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/aquaponics.jpg

Instead of something so specific, it might be better to use that as a generic 10-ton livestock bay, which would allow for diversity not only in a single colony "fleet" but across different worlds and ecosystems.

Quote
Then I lowered the weight of the crew/passenger quarters to 5 tons each. This can be somewhat countered by the mothership's grav-decks etc during the long transit between stars, and once on the ground they will have an entire planet to run around on. As suggested, this opened up 50 tons more which I used for 1 small vehicle bay. Farm and construction vehicles, plus 4-wheelers, personal hovercraft, small trucks, etc can be crammed onto these. I'm guessing each dropper would be loaded with something different to maximize the colony's potential. Even mining equipment/vehicles should be loaded on at least a few of these.

Exactly. Each individual SC can be equipped for one primary purpose, for example, in a 10-SC group, one would include the administrator of the colony, her family and whatnot, with the primary vehicle being more like a HQ truck than a construction vehicle; four could be optimized for farming, three for construction one for research and the last for general moving.

---------------

At early stages of colonization, an actual hospital would be a luxury; every starting colony would do well to include at least one medical doctor AND medical nurse, along with one or more veterinarians and assistants. If lucky, they might have a single-bed operating theater built into a standard 10- or 25-ton container. Only after the colony reaches the size of a large town might they consider something more than the single "clinic"; until then, the medical system would function much like that of an early country doctor; has an office, but when there is an emergency goes on house calls.

Cowdragon

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #7 on: 08 June 2012, 16:31:41 »
Aerotech expert? Hardly; there are a few worthier of the title.  O:-)

Y'know how it happens that you read something several times and manage to miss that one line of essential info?   @p?

Instead of something so specific, it might be better to use that as a generic 10-ton livestock bay, which would allow for diversity not only in a single colony "fleet" but across different worlds and ecosystems.

Exactly. Each individual SC can be equipped for one primary purpose, for example, in a 10-SC group, one would include the administrator of the colony, her family and whatnot, with the primary vehicle being more like a HQ truck than a construction vehicle; four could be optimized for farming, three for construction one for research and the last for general moving.

---------------

At early stages of colonization, an actual hospital would be a luxury; every starting colony would do well to include at least one medical doctor AND medical nurse, along with one or more veterinarians and assistants. If lucky, they might have a single-bed operating theater built into a standard 10- or 25-ton container. Only after the colony reaches the size of a large town might they consider something more than the single "clinic"; until then, the medical system would function much like that of an early country doctor; has an office, but when there is an emergency goes on house calls.

haha, well at least you're the colonization expert ;)

Had to laugh at your missing that essential info too, lol.

I could see a 10 ton livestock bay being a great idea. It's my own lack of imagination that doesn't allow me to think of any sustainable way to transport any other livestock than fish/aquaponics over a year+ transit in only 10 tons of space though. Not saying it's impossible... just that nothing is coming into my own mind.  :-[

As for the hospital/clinic droppers... so you don't think it's a good idea? My thought was 1 per jumpship. Each jumpship will carry 25 Colony droppers plus 1 hospital/clinic dropper, and then 4 other assorted small craft. Although I think they should each be specialized as well. Possibly with at least one being infantry to protect against hostile wildlife and pirates? Others specifically to carry larger vehicles or maybe agro/loggermechs? Small ones of course. Thoughts?

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
Pie or Spehs and Tanks also BA

Fireangel

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #8 on: 08 June 2012, 16:50:19 »
As for the hospital/clinic droppers... so you don't think it's a good idea? My thought was 1 per jumpship. Each jumpship will carry 25 Colony droppers plus 1 hospital/clinic dropper, and then 4 other assorted small craft.

Think about that; 250 colonists give or take a dozen; that is less population than an average 12-floor condominium; how often does a population that size need the power of a full staff hospital? A single doctor and 1-2 nurses/assistants can handle the workload just fine with a single-bed "MASH container", with veterinary practitioners helping out when things get bad.

Quote
Although I think they should each be specialized as well. Possibly with at least one being infantry to protect against hostile wildlife and pirates? Others specifically to carry larger vehicles or maybe agro/loggermechs? Small ones of course. Thoughts?

Infantry? No. No military presence. Although firearms will likely be quite common tools for hunting, varminting (i.e. pest control) and defense against predators. This being the BT universe, at least a couple colonists will have military experience, but if push comes to shove, they'd function better as guerrillas than as infantry.

Now, I might see a unit of construction engineers being deployed to help build the colony's basic infrastructure, like spaceports and stuff, but these would NOT be part of the colony and will leave once the mission gets done.

Military assets would not be an integral part of the colony because, frankly (and it pains me to say this as a vet), full-time military assets do not actually contribute anything to the building of the colony; their presence actually makes self-reliance harder and offers the possibility of failure in the long run once the military assets depart.

serack

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #9 on: 08 June 2012, 17:06:47 »
u can travel with livestock as embyos and decant on landing... it will slow use of meat animals for awhile but safer travel and more variety and numbers can be carried :)

Fireangel

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #10 on: 08 June 2012, 17:43:53 »
u can travel with livestock as embyos and decant on landing... it will slow use of meat animals for awhile but safer travel and more variety and numbers can be carried :)
Problem is that... dang; I remember replying to something like this earlier...

Aha!

"As explained in the article, about a half-ton of livestock (of all kinds) per colonist should serve well; this would allow for unknown local bugs and other unforeseen problems. Specific types would be up to the individual colony, but even if they carry enough sperm variety and fertilized ova, they will still need adult cows for breeding, bulls for studding and for immediate use, milking cows, beef cattle and “fertilizer production”. Mind you, I'm assuming that for 2.5k colonists there will be about 300-400 heads of cattle (probably a relatively small breed well-suited for space travel and birthing other breeds' fertilized ova), along with about 3-4 sheep, 10-12 chickens... The first-wave seed colony needs to be as self-sufficient as possible from day one; they cannot afford to wait the decades it takes to reach a viable cattle/other livestock population from a dozen or so seeds (the first generation has to mature to breeding age, which is about two years, not nearly fast enough for the arrival of the second wave)."


In other words; it's best to bring live animals (bred for handling the stress of space travel and for their hardy wombs), "pre-loaded" with fertilied ova from other species; this means that they will birth soon after landing and will be ready to be reloaded with fertilized ova. The breeders are not used to produce more of their space-going breed except to maintain a small stock for future exports.

This applies across the board with all livestock animals, from fish to full-on cattle and everything in between.

Also remember that in the first few stages of the colony, meat is a by-product of the livestock industry; milk, eggs, wool and fertilizer are far more important; meat and leather comes from young bulls not selected for studding and cows whose productive life has reached its end; this applies to sheep, goats, donkeys/horses (useful for transport as well), chickens and certain types of lizards and "alien" livestock species from across the BT universe.

BritMech

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #11 on: 08 June 2012, 18:16:38 »
Infantry? No. No military presence. Although firearms will likely be quite common tools for hunting, varminting (i.e. pest control) and defense against predators. This being the BT universe, at least a couple colonists will have military experience, but if push comes to shove, they'd function better as guerrillas than as infantry.

Now, I might see a unit of construction engineers being deployed to help build the colony's basic infrastructure, like spaceports and stuff, but these would NOT be part of the colony and will leave once the mission gets done.

Military assets would not be an integral part of the colony because, frankly (and it pains me to say this as a vet), full-time military assets do not actually contribute anything to the building of the colony; their presence actually makes self-reliance harder and offers the possibility of failure in the long run once the military assets depart.

I think what gets sent down depends on the planet. Whilst an entire hospital for 250 people isn't required, depending on the harshness of the environment a small specialised team might be needed at first. Look at the Exodus and the original 5 planets. For peacekeeping, military is overkill. A Sheriff and possibly a Deputy would be enough. Construction? Depending on the Small Craft and DropShips that land, residential is already taken care of. What would be needed is irrigation, wells, pumps, solar panels and electrical cabling. Drilling a well is kind of specialist, so someone with that experience would likely stay since the colony will grow, requiring more wells.

Cowdragon

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #12 on: 09 June 2012, 01:15:02 »
So how about 1 Hospital Dropper for the entire first wave. But it will have facilities that will double for humans and veterinary services. I really can't see going so far away that surgery couldn't be performed if needed. Or burn care, or other unforeseen emergencies. That leaves a couple Droppers specifically to carry vehicles and dedicated cargo, otherwise say between 45 and 47 for colonists? I would go more, but standard Jumpships can carry so little.

Now I know this seems easy to fix with regular dropships carrying the people, but that leaves no gravdecks. I suppose they could work in tandem with jumpships. The dropships carrying the small craft, cargo, and passengers for the long transit, while the jumpship carries the relatively light grav decks for crew/colonist health. I'm going for a colony that is a year or more away. On the other hand, how many world that far away would a government invest in? Possibly a company would... like that Dutch one is doing right now for Mars. So smaller groups that come in waves verses huge numbers?

I dunno. Still messing with it all. I'm liking what we have here. Let me post my Colony Jumper and Dropship. We can go from there.

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
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Cowdragon

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #13 on: 09 June 2012, 01:42:10 »
Alrighty. Here's the Colony Jumper. Now I know Jumpships are supposed to max out at 500k tons. But I like mine bigger. So with that out of the way, it was what to do with the space? A few strange things had to be done.

1) although small craft bays normally take "bay personal" these are not normal small craft bays. They stay closed and mostly unused during transit. Also, the colonists themselves do a large part of the maintenance to double efficiency. So although I allowed for Bay Personal for the 4 fighters per Jumper, I did not for the 30 Dropper Bays. I know that the colonists will be in these bays keeping the livestock and gardens, but they will also be keeping the bays serviced. So I'm calling that good, unless someone can explain otherwise why it won't work.

2) The Jumper needs to house the colonists during the transit. Probably in bigger quarters than they will have on their Droppers. Therefore, 300 "2nd class" staterooms are onboard for the long journey.

3) For crew and colonist health, 12 separate grav-decks have been installed. One for the Jumper Crew. One for the Dropship crew. One for every 30 colonists, or 3 Droppers. The colonists are more free to inter-mingle with each other than with the Jumper or Dropship crews. Encouraged even, to build relationships.

4) The Jumper carries lots of food and water, not only to get the passengers to the colony area, but to get the crews back home. They also carry thousands of tons of other cargo and spare fuel for the colony.

5) I SERIOUSLY hate going anywhere in the battletech universe without some sort of military backup. So the Jumper has 4 Aerospace Fighters, plus full technical crews in case of hostiles, and 7 marines to help keep order on board or assist with the odd chance of being boarded. These will not stay with the colony, but are there to protect the precious cargo during transit.

6) One Dropship Docking Collar only. Most of the mass has gone into passenger quarters and small craft bays, with everything else going towards the above grav-decks and cargo/fuel. One dropship will accompany the colony to carry several thousand more tons of things like grain, water, livestock, weather satellites, fuel, building materials, agromechs, loggermechs, small cache of military grade equipment for the colony militia (let's face it, if you are in the colony you are also in the militia and fire department), medical supplies, mining equipment, and possibly even small craft that can be used as shuttles from planet-side to orbit or edge of solar system if needed. Maybe even an HPG transmitter depending on wealth and backing of colony.

Code: [Select]
                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Colony Jumper
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       JumpShip
Rules:             Level 3, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              550,000 tons
Length:            871 meters
Sail Diameter:     1,382 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       0
Maximum Thrust:    0
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          None
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Colony Jumper
Mass:              550,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                        6,600.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 0
      Maximum Thrust: 0
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Standard (Integrity = 10)              522,500.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 6)                                             103.00
Structural Integrity: 1                                              3,667.00
Total Heat Sinks:    159 Single                                           .00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   1,020.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:              1,375.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (572 days supply)                                     1,004.00
Armor Type:  Standard  (100 total armor pts)                           249.00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 22
   Fore-Left/Right:                   16/16
   Aft-Left/Right:                    16/16
   Aft:                                  14

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (4) with 2 doors                                   600.00
           Small Craft Bays (30) with 15 doors                       6,000.00
           Cargo (1) with 1 door                                       500.00
           Fuel (2) with 2 doors                                     1,000.00
           Refueling Drogues (2) with 2 doors                            2.00

DropShip Capacity:  1 Docking Hardpoints                             1,000.00
Grav Decks #1 - 12:  (95-meter diameter)                               600.00

Crew and Passengers:
      6 Officers (6 minimum)                                            60.00
     30 Crew (28 minimum)                                              210.00
    300 2nd Class Passengers                                         2,100.00
      7 Marines                                                         35.00
      8 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Lot Spare Parts (0.25%)                                            1,375.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                Heat: 0     550,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        375,218,750 C-Bills
Battle Value:      2,406
Cost per BV:       155,951.27
Weapon Value:      0 (Ratio = .00)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 0;  MRV = 0;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 43,991
                   (13,026 Structure, 29,375 Life Support, 1,590 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 79,650  (181% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
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Cowdragon

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #14 on: 09 June 2012, 02:04:28 »
Ok, and here's the Colony dropship. Again, unarmed. It does carry 7 marines to keep the peace however. It also has the largest crew with 90 people (most are bay personal, so I'm wondering if this cannot be thinned a bit as they are not being used during combat, but only specifically in unloading the colony supplies).

It carries another 4,500 tons of supplies divided into 3 large bays. The four battlemech bays are actually for 2 loggermechs and 2 agromechs. Although most of these kind of mechs are fossil fuel powered, these ones will have small fusion engines to maintain longevity of use in case fossil fuels cannot either be found or produced. the small craft can be loaded with a variety of ships. Depending on the needs of the colony. However I am thinking that these will stay with the dropship when it leaves rather than with the colony. So possibly aerodynes that can land on newly made airstrips to conserve fuel while transporting cargo back and forth between spacecraft and ground colony. The vehicle bays are for the really big beasts that the colony may need for construction and cargo hauling on the ground. While the smaller droppers may carry a variety of motorcycles, trucks, personal hovercraft, ATV's, etc, this beast carries dumptrucks, tractors, combines, cranes, possibly dirigibles, or other assorted aircraft the colony may need. Seriously, a VTOL or small passenger/cargo plane wouldn't hurt at all to have around.

so here it is...
Code: [Select]
                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Colony Dropship
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       Spheroid DropShip
Rules:             Level 1, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              9,500 tons
Length:            109 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       3
Maximum Thrust:    5
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          None
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Colony Dropship
Mass:              9,500 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                        1,852.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 3
      Maximum Thrust: 5
Structural Integrity: 10                                               190.00
Total Heat Sinks:    54 Single                                            .00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                     714.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                 72.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (679 days supply)                                       305.50
Armor Type:  Standard  (616 total armor pts)                            36.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                176
   Left/Right Sides:                 154/154
   Aft:                                 132

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Cargo (3) with 3 doors                                    4,500.00
           Small Craft (2) with 1 door                                 400.00
           BattleMechs (4) with 2 doors                                600.00
           Heavy Vehicles (51-100T) (4) with 2 doors                   400.00
           Light Vehicles (to 50T) (4) with 2 doors                    200.00


Crew and Passengers:
      3 Officers (2 minimum)                                            30.00
     10 Crew (2 minimum)                                                70.00
      7 Marines                                                         35.00
     70 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.00%)                                               95.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                Heat: 0       9,500.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        139,210,400 C-Bills
Battle Value:      1,943
Cost per BV:       71,647.14
Weapon Value:      0 (Ratio = .00)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 0;  MRV = 0;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 35,703
                   (21,401 Structure, 13,762 Life Support, 540 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 35,775  (100% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      MP: 3,  Armor/Structure: 11 / 10
                   Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: DL;  Point Value: 19
                   Specials: sph

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
Pie or Spehs and Tanks also BA

Fireangel

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #15 on: 09 June 2012, 16:39:22 »
Working on an itty-bitty netbook screen, so forgive the staccato…

So how about 1 Hospital Dropper for the entire first wave.

I really don’t see the need to dedicate a whole SC to medical services when a single vehicle or even a single (canonical) 10 or 25 ton container equipped with medical (MASH) gear will suffice. Remember; in transporting a colony, every ton and every bay counts; the path of least resistance, Occam’s Razor and the K.I.S.S. Principle all favour the vehicle/container over dedicating a whole SC to the same function.

Quote
But it will have facilities that will double for humans and veterinary services.

While not an inherently bad idea, the medical facilities for humans and livestock should be kept fully separate to minimize the possibility of cross-contamination, particularly in a new world with a literally alien environment (regardless… or due to… its human-friendly nature).

Quote
I really can't see going so far away that surgery couldn't be performed if needed. Or burn care, or other unforeseen emergencies.

New colonies, particularly first-waves, by default must cover a relatively small area for mutual support and community assistance. With a MASH container next to the doctor’s office, surgery can be performed if needed. Any accidents taking place further away will require that the doctor respond on-site; if the patient(s) must be taken to the MASH container, the doctor will oversee the transportation in a fast civilian vehicle, possibly even the Ferret mentioned in an earlier post.

Quote
That leaves a couple Droppers specifically to carry vehicles and dedicated cargo, otherwise say between 45 and 47 for colonists? I would go more, but standard Jumpships can carry so little.

Yes. Like I mentioned earlier, 1-2 dropships can be dedicated to containerized cargo for communal purposes; I’d favour these to be aerodynes capable of taking off again; they can be made to leave with the jumpship once the colonists are landed OR they can remain as an integral part of the colony; useful for long-range surveys and even interplanetary transport if needed.

Quote
Now I know this seems easy to fix with regular dropships carrying the people, but that leaves no gravdecks. I suppose they could work in tandem with jumpships. The dropships carrying the small craft, cargo, and passengers for the long transit, while the jumpship carries the relatively light grav decks for crew/colonist health.

Yes. The actual droppers need not include gravdecks of any kind; that is what is needed in the jumpship transport. Ideally, the jumpship should also carry the consumable supplies needed for the trip itself; no dedicated quarters need be assigned to the colonists since they can use the ones in the droppers themselves. This means that 1 ton supplies = 200 man-days without additional penalties.

Quote
I'm going for a colony that is a year or more away.

Then two tons of consumable supplies per colonist (400 days) should suffice. That is one year plus a six week safety margin.

Quote
On the other hand, how many world that far away would a government invest in? Possibly a company would... like that Dutch one is doing right now for Mars. So smaller groups that come in waves verses huge numbers?

Governments are unlikely to sponsor such faraway colonies; assuming one jump per week, a year = 52 weeks… 52 x 30LY = 1,560 light years away… think clan worlds distance. IF a government needed something that far away they would build an outpost, not a colony (outposts are not intended to ever become self-sufficient, so they have very different personnel and equipment requirements. Ditto for corporate sponsors.

Don’t mistake any real world “colonization” projects to Mars or elsewhere for “real” colonies: these are actually outposts; only highly trained astronauts will be going and they will rotate out on a regular basis; they are not expected to take their spouses there in order to have and raise children.

Quote
I dunno. Still messing with it all. I'm liking what we have here. Let me post my Colony Jumper and Dropship. We can go from there.

I like it too. The concept of the SC colony dropper is actually quite exiting.


Fireangel

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #16 on: 09 June 2012, 17:46:37 »
Alrighty. Here's the Colony Jumper. Now I know Jumpships are supposed to max out at 500k tons. But I like mine bigger. So with that out of the way, it was what to do with the space? A few strange things had to be done.

I don’t like breaking the rules. Making it 50kt larger than the largest allowed in the construction rules is kinda cheating… ;)

Quote
1) although small craft bays normally take "bay personal" these are not normal small craft bays. They stay closed and mostly unused during transit. Also, the colonists themselves do a large part of the maintenance to double efficiency. So although I allowed for Bay Personal for the 4 fighters per Jumper, I did not for the 30 Dropper Bays. I know that the colonists will be in these bays keeping the livestock and gardens, but they will also be keeping the bays serviced. So I'm calling that good, unless someone can explain otherwise why it won't work.

2) The Jumper needs to house the colonists during the transit. Probably in bigger quarters than they will have on their Droppers. Therefore, 300 "2nd class" staterooms are onboard for the long journey.

I disagree. The SC droppers should remain accessible to the colonists during the journey on the jumpship; they can be “plugged into” the jumper’s bays for water, electricity and sewage, adding their capabilities to those of the jumpship. This reduces the cost of the jumpship and the colony significantly; it also allows the colonists to get used to their new homes and their facilities/capabilities in a controlled environment; by the time they reach the landing site, they will know their droppers inside and out.

For livestock, yes; the jumpship needs to have at least one gravdeck dedicated to livestock during the journey; this will be done for the health of the animals; humans can live in their SC’s and go at will to the gravdecks, but the livestock will have to live in the ring, being moved to the SC’s pens at the last moment.

Mind you; the SC droppers will NOT be fuelled up on board! Fuelling will take place hours before launching for the final flight to the colony world.

Quote
3) For crew and colonist health, 12 separate grav-decks have been installed. One for the Jumper Crew. One for the Dropship crew. One for every 30 colonists, or 3 Droppers. The colonists are more free to inter-mingle with each other than with the Jumper or Dropship crews. Encouraged even, to build relationships.

I don’t think so many grav decks are needed. Grav decks are HUGE things, even the relatively small ones and the colonists don’t have to be in the things 24 hours a day. 300 passengers is not really that big a number; you might be able to get by with 3-4 gravdecks, plus one for livestock.

Quote
4) The Jumper carries lots of food and water, not only to get the passengers to the colony area, but to get the crews back home. They also carry thousands of tons of other cargo and spare fuel for the colony.

Besides the supplies for the jumpship crew itself, you’d need enough supplies for the colonists for the duration of the voyage up to the point when the SC droppers actually leave the ship; all their supplies after this point are pre-loaded in the SC droppers themselves (except for the livestock, as mentioned above).

Quote
5) I SERIOUSLY hate going anywhere in the battletech universe without some sort of military backup. So the Jumper has 4 Aerospace Fighters, plus full technical crews in case of hostiles, and 7 marines to help keep order on board or assist with the odd chance of being boarded. These will not stay with the colony, but are there to protect the precious cargo during transit.

I’d actually house the fighters in SC bays; it might add 200 tons to the whole, but not all colonies are set up in far away places where fighters are needed. With SC bays instead of dedicated fighter bays the bays can still be useful if fighters are not needed or carried.

Regarding the marines, I would not count much on them being used for anti-boarding operations; if four fighters failed to dissuade the attackers, seven dudes with CQB firepower are not going to do much. However, if you have your heart set on a paramilitary presence, the marines can be equipped with anti-personnel weapons like needlers, for minimal risk to internal components.

Quote
6) One Dropship Docking Collar only. Most of the mass has gone into passenger quarters and small craft bays, with everything else going towards the above grav-decks and cargo/fuel. One dropship will accompany the colony to carry several thousand more tons of things like grain, water, livestock, weather satellites, fuel, building materials, agromechs, loggermechs, small cache of military grade equipment for the colony militia (let's face it, if you are in the colony you are also in the militia and fire department), medical supplies, mining equipment, and possibly even small craft that can be used as shuttles from planet-side to orbit or edge of solar system if needed. Maybe even an HPG transmitter depending on wealth and backing of colony.

Yes. I agree with the idea of a single DS collar; not only does it keep the cost of the jumpship way down, but it can serve a non-colony-related function.

Quote
                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Colony Jumper
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       JumpShip
Rules:             Level 3, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              550,000 tons
Length:            871 meters
Sail Diameter:     1,382 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       0
Maximum Thrust:    0
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          None
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Colony Jumper
Mass:              550,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                        6,600.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 0
      Maximum Thrust: 0
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Standard (Integrity = 10)              522,500.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 6)                                             103.00
Structural Integrity: 1                                              3,667.00
Total Heat Sinks:    159 Single                                           .00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   1,020.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:              1,375.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (572 days supply)                                     1,004.00
Armor Type:  Standard  (100 total armor pts)                           249.00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 22
   Fore-Left/Right:                   16/16
   Aft-Left/Right:                    16/16
   Aft:                                  14

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (4) with 2 doors                                   600.00
           Small Craft Bays (30) with 15 doors                       6,000.00
           Cargo (1) with 1 door                                       500.00
           Fuel (2) with 2 doors                                     1,000.00
           Refueling Drogues (2) with 2 doors                            2.00

DropShip Capacity:  1 Docking Hardpoints                             1,000.00
Grav Decks #1 - 12:  (95-meter diameter)                               600.00

Crew and Passengers:
      6 Officers (6 minimum)                                            60.00
     30 Crew (28 minimum)                                              210.00
    300 2nd Class Passengers                                         2,100.00
      7 Marines                                                         35.00
      8 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Lot Spare Parts (0.25%)                                            1,375.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                Heat: 0     550,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        375,218,750 C-Bills
Battle Value:      2,406
Cost per BV:       155,951.27
Weapon Value:      0 (Ratio = .00)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 0;  MRV = 0;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 43,991
                   (13,026 Structure, 29,375 Life Support, 1,590 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 79,650  (181% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable


It occurs to me that for this model of colony, thirty SC droppers in one jumpship might be a bit high unless you are building a single-drop colony; 18-24 SC droppers per group might give more bang for the buck.

Even with 30 SC dropper bays, the jumpship does not need to be much larger than a Starlord; certainly smaller than a Monolith.



Another thing that occurred to me is that the SC bays could be actually mounted on one of the gravdecks; since they are expected to be “launched” only once (at the destination), there would be no risk with multiple launch/recoveries. Works like this:

The jumpship’s livestock ring and “SC habitat” ring(s) are next to each other, connected by several access tunnels between the rings. When the jumpship reaches the destination system, the livestock is transferred from the livestock ring to the SC ring and loaded in the SC’s. After this is done, the SC’s are fuelled up and the SC crew load up. Finally, the actual colonists board and the SC’s are buttoned up. This is followed by all jumpship personnel leaving the bays before the grav ring is stopped. Once stopped, the bay doors open and the SC’s float out.

I originally considered using centrifugal force to shoot out the droppers… but too much can go wrong with that; adding complication for no practical gain.

Fireangel

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #17 on: 09 June 2012, 18:03:20 »
Ok, and here's the Colony dropship. Again, unarmed. It does carry 7 marines to keep the peace however. It also has the largest crew with 90 people (most are bay personal, so I'm wondering if this cannot be thinned a bit as they are not being used during combat, but only specifically in unloading the colony supplies).

It carries another 4,500 tons of supplies divided into 3 large bays. The four battlemech bays are actually for 2 loggermechs and 2 agromechs. Although most of these kind of mechs are fossil fuel powered, these ones will have small fusion engines to maintain longevity of use in case fossil fuels cannot either be found or produced. the small craft can be loaded with a variety of ships. Depending on the needs of the colony. However I am thinking that these will stay with the dropship when it leaves rather than with the colony. So possibly aerodynes that can land on newly made airstrips to conserve fuel while transporting cargo back and forth between spacecraft and ground colony. The vehicle bays are for the really big beasts that the colony may need for construction and cargo hauling on the ground. While the smaller droppers may carry a variety of motorcycles, trucks, personal hovercraft, ATV's, etc, this beast carries dumptrucks, tractors, combines, cranes, possibly dirigibles, or other assorted aircraft the colony may need. Seriously, a VTOL or small passenger/cargo plane wouldn't hurt at all to have around.


I really like it, but I see it more like the kind of dropper a dedicated construction company hired to help starting colonies get a leg up in the starting stages, then depart to contract with another colony.


Which also seems to be a good idea in an era where new colonies are common.

BritMech

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #18 on: 09 June 2012, 18:43:46 »
Then two tons of consumable supplies per colonist (400 days) should suffice. That is one year plus a six week safety margin.

Governments are unlikely to sponsor such faraway colonies; assuming one jump per week, a year = 52 weeks… 52 x 30LY = 1,560 light years away… think clan worlds distance. IF a government needed something that far away they would build an outpost, not a colony (outposts are not intended to ever become self-sufficient, so they have very different personnel and equipment requirements. Ditto for corporate sponsors.

Actually the 400 days is about right for any kind of colony mission. Just because you get there doesn't mean you start eating the food from the planet right away. It takes time to plant, grow and harvest the food. So in the meantime they are going to need to live on the rations.

Assuming they plan to arrive at the start of the planting season, they need six to eight months of supplies to tide them over. A little extra in case things go wrong.

So the numbers for food are about right, but the distance is a little optimistic.

Fireangel

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #19 on: 09 June 2012, 19:32:49 »
Actually the 400 days is about right for any kind of colony mission. Just because you get there doesn't mean you start eating the food from the planet right away. It takes time to plant, grow and harvest the food. So in the meantime they are going to need to live on the rations.

Assuming they plan to arrive at the start of the planting season, they need six to eight months of supplies to tide them over. A little extra in case things go wrong.

So the numbers for food are about right, but the distance is a little optimistic.

That's exactly what I said in my article:

Quote
How much to they consume? Standard rule in BT is 1 ton = 200 man/days. Since we are calculating for a 100-day journey, that is a half ton per colonist; 1,250 tons.

We also have to supply them for when they reach the colony; supplies enough to keep everyone hale and hearty at least until the first crops come in (dropping them off during the right time of year; i.e. the "planting season" is critical); since genemod grain can grow frighteningly quickly (about 3-4 months; some real-world grains actually do that). A well-planned and organized seed colony will plan for two failed plantings; about six months of consumables, for our purposes, 200 days, or 2,500 tons.


lucho

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #20 on: 09 June 2012, 22:29:52 »
Overall, good stuff. But I have two questions:

1) Are you working in a specific timeframe? Or is this more genreal in scope- Succession Wars, Clan Invasion, Jihad, etc.

2)Correct me if I'm wrong, but your small craft, with only 2/3 thrust, can land on a planet, but won't be able to take off again. Or is it supposed to be a one-way trip?
If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

Cowdragon

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #21 on: 10 June 2012, 01:28:34 »
Overall, good stuff. But I have two questions:

1) Are you working in a specific timeframe? Or is this more genreal in scope- Succession Wars, Clan Invasion, Jihad, etc.

2)Correct me if I'm wrong, but your small craft, with only 2/3 thrust, can land on a planet, but won't be able to take off again. Or is it supposed to be a one-way trip?

General. I suppose for more realism it would be Star League or Periphery, as these seem to be the sort of countries doing the colonizing. And yes, the thrust was intentional, as this is meant ot be a one way trip for the droppers. Sorry, I meant to mention that up above.

I really like it, but I see it more like the kind of dropper a dedicated construction company hired to help starting colonies get a leg up in the starting stages, then depart to contract with another colony.


Which also seems to be a good idea in an era where new colonies are common.

Cool! thanks for the input. I have tweaked all of the craft a bit more. I actually didn't know about the 25 ton MASH containers, so was just making stuff up/winging it on my numbers for the hospital droppers. However, that still allows a Dropper to carry one of these MASH units and medical crew, and then some. So a tiny bit of tweaking there and we're in business!

Will be posting them soon. Thanks everyone! :)

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Cowdragon

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #22 on: 10 June 2012, 02:52:43 »
Alrighty. Here's the redesigned Colony Jumper. This is a craft rented by a company that specializes in setting up colonies on new worlds. I've taken many of Fireangel's ideas, and incorporated (stolen) them. The 30 dropshuttles are docked directly to a giant grav-deck. The consumables on the drop shuttles are not used during transit. The passenger/colonists use the Jumpship consumables during transit instead.

There are four 250 ton fuel tanks arranged around the outside of the hull with a 250 ton cargo hold in between each. Also, each fuel tank has a refueling drogue to help with external refueling purposes. The jumpship has integral 4 small craft bays, plus the bay personal to assist which can be used for everything from fighters to small craft, depending on mission profile. One docking collar is situated towards the aft of the craft. This is rented to the colonists as well. The dropshuttles otherwise are purchased.

The weight was brought into "non-cheating" ranges. Armor protection was greatly reduced to save weight wherever possible. 1000 ton fuel tanks are integral for the jumpship to use during transit. 1000 tons of consumables, and 1000 tons of spare parts are also included. There are also 10 steerage passenger quarters added, for general spacefaring courtesy... in case you find survivors of a wreck somewhere. Just seems the decent thing to do... probably the legal thing as well, lol.

Hope this fixes the issues.

Code: [Select]
                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Colony Jumper
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       JumpShip
Rules:             Level 3, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              470,000 tons
Length:            835 meters
Sail Diameter:     1,329 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       0
Maximum Thrust:    0
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          None
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Colony Jumper
Mass:              470,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                        5,640.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 0
      Maximum Thrust: 0
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Standard (Integrity = 9)               446,500.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 6)                                              93.00
Structural Integrity: 1                                              3,133.50
Total Heat Sinks:    151 Single                                           .00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   1,020.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:              1,175.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (2985 days supply)                                    1,000.00
Armor Type:  Standard  (50 total armor pts)                            124.50
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 11
   Fore-Left/Right:                    8/8
   Aft-Left/Right:                     8/8
   Aft:                                   7

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Small Craft (4) with 2 doors                                800.00
           Small Craft Bays (30) with 15 doors                       6,000.00
           Cargo (4) with 4 doors                                    1,000.00
           Fuel (4) with 4 doors                                     1,000.00
           Refueling Drogues (4) with 4 doors                            4.00

DropShip Capacity:  1 Docking Hardpoints                             1,000.00
Grav Decks #1 - 4:  (95-meter diameter)                                200.00

Crew and Passengers:
      5 Officers (5 minimum)                                            50.00
     25 Crew (25 minimum)                                              175.00
     10 Steerage Passengers                                             50.00
      7 Marines                                                         35.00
     20 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Lot Spare Parts (0.21%)                                            1,000.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                Heat: 0     470,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        318,888,750 C-Bills
Battle Value:      1,609
Cost per BV:       198,190.65
Weapon Value:      0 (Ratio = .00)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 0;  MRV = 0;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 26,371
                   (11,406 Structure, 13,455 Life Support, 1,510 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 66,375  (252% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
Pie or Spehs and Tanks also BA

truetanker

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #23 on: 11 November 2018, 23:05:49 »
This is what I wanted permission for...

Hospital and Colony Smallcraft droppers!

Could I use these in a current game with your permission.

Game link : https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=61764.msg1417537#msg1417537

It would help me a lot... and fix an in-game problem too...

TT
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If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
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Elmoth

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #24 on: 12 November 2018, 04:42:05 »
Ok, long thread. I have not read it all, so I might some things wrong or already commented, but here it goes

1. I think I would ditch small craft and use the space in larger dropships. it is more efficient, and in these expensive ventures costs can skyrocket fast.

2. I would design the dropships to stay there and form the nucleous of the new settlements. This allows for the colonization of less than ideal locations. Turning the dropships into habitation domes with internal hidroponics, purification plants etc would look cool IMO :)

3. Agromechs are a feature of the universe. I would take normal vehicles in a hard science setting, but in the BT universe they look cool :) Still, spare parts for agromechs would be difficult to come by, so maybe normal construction and agrarian vehicles would be better?

4. As an alternative to agromechs I would take AGRICULTURAL POWER ARMOR. Cheaper, easier to maintain (works with a fuel cell) and much more useful since it does not require the kind of training a mech pilot does.

Just some random ideas :)

kato

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #25 on: 16 November 2018, 14:11:10 »
1. I think I would ditch small craft and use the space in larger dropships. it is more efficient, and in these expensive ventures costs can skyrocket fast.
Dropships are horribly inefficient regarding costs if you use them one-way and especially so if they're laid out to support a large number of passengers. There are ways to get it down (quarters mounted in wheeled trailers carried as cargo...), but they're still not quite efficient.

Realistically we need proper rules for designing drop cocoons for these purposes  ::)

marcussmythe

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #26 on: 16 November 2018, 18:27:21 »
If Im a colonist, Id rather make my trip to the surface in a spheriod small craft than in a vehicle drop coccoon.  :)  Seems safer.

Though once down, having SOME dropped, mobile hab units wouldnt be a bad thing, either!

Lagrange

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #27 on: 16 November 2018, 22:58:00 »
it's cheaper to use a dropship to house the smallcraft while reserving the jumpship for the critical things it can provide: jump transport and grav decks.   A Mule is about the right size.  Convert it to carry 30 smallcraft with the remainder as cargo. 

Cowdragon

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #28 on: 20 November 2018, 15:08:19 »
Rereading this old revived thread has been super fun. Thanks for bringing it back.  ☺

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
Pie or Spehs and Tanks also BA

truetanker

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Re: Small Craft for colonization
« Reply #29 on: 20 March 2020, 02:10:21 »
I love these, just wished there was a way to get them published.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016