Cowdragon's Pies of Doom. what? Everyone else was doing it.

[Cowdragon]

at least yours CAN force a PSR, lol. Mine fits firmly into a skirmisher/raider role. All energy, medium ranged main weapons, Flamers for smoke screens and bringing down the property value, haha.

[Cowdragon]

here's an idea I've been messing around with for some time. Taking a basic Chameleon frame and really giving it the ability to blend in. So as a nod to the original I called it the Gecko. Meant again as a raider/skirmisher/guerrilla fighter (my favorite things!) it is built to be the most affordable CLPS/Null Sig mech ever built! Standard engine, standard Internal Structure... all so that it won't have to work alone, but can be dropped onto a planet with lancemates with the same abilities.

The look: a blend of your basic Chameleon with Thug style hands (LPPCs and ER Flamers in over under barrel config) and Wolverine style head with the ball turret.

Code: [Select]

Gecko

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-X
Production Year: 0
Cost: 8,113,500 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,453

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    2  Light PPCs
    1  Small X-Pulse Laser
    2  ER Flamers
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Overview:
Thug arms, Wolverine head (ball turret) meant to be a super cheap raider and
deep guerilla fighter. All energy weapons. Meant for taking on Mechs, Infantry,
and soft targets alike. It can hit and fade very successfully.


================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      83 points                5.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                300                      19.00
    Walking MP: 6
    Running MP: 9
    Jumping MP: 6 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT                                         3.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 158                  8.00
    Armor Locations: 1 CT, 7 LT, 7 RT, 3 LA, 3 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     16           23       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     12           18       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     8            16       
                                             L/R Leg     12           20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Flamer                                    RA        4         1         1.00
Light PPC                                    RA        5         2         3.00
ER Flamer                                    LA        4         1         1.00
Light PPC                                    LA        5         2         3.00
Small X-Pulse Laser                          HD        3         1         1.00
Null Signature System                        *         10        7         0.00
Chameleon LPS                                *         6         6         0.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

* The Null Signature System occupies 1 slot in every location except the HD.
* The Chameleon LPS occupies 1 slot in every location except the HD and CT.

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 15
6j         2       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: ECM, STL, ENE, SRCH, ES, SOA



[Diablo48]

It looks good enough to me, but the heat is far too tight with the stealth systems active for my tastes so I would be inclined to ditch the SXPL for another DHS.  I would also like to see it with Endo instead of the HFF because it is actually cheaper to use Endo+LFF to let you slightly improve the protection while adding another ton of payload (which I would use for a 12th DHS), or you can max the armor with standard plates to make the 'Mech significantly cheaper to maintain.

[Cowdragon]

It looks good enough to me, but the heat is far too tight with the stealth systems active for my tastes so I would be inclined to ditch the SXPL for another DHS.  I would also like to see it with Endo instead of the HFF because it is actually cheaper to use Endo+LFF to let you slightly improve the protection while adding another ton of payload (which I would use for a 12th DHS), or you can max the armor with standard plates to make the 'Mech significantly cheaper to maintain.

OH! I was thinking ES was more expensive for some reason. Thanks Diablo! Lately I've been fascinated with trying to use standard frames and FF or HFF armor just to make things more interesting as well. So for cheaper I will go with your suggestion. The tighness in heat is an issue, but I figured for something that can fire a couple rounds and fade into nothingness it was acceptible. This is not meant as a front line fighter by any means. Also not a solo fighter. 4-6 of these things pop out of nowhere and hit the same target for say 2 rounds, then fade away whatching the commotion from a distance.

[Cowdragon]

here we go. It is slightly cheaper using standard armor and ES instead of HFF, but I don't get quite the coverage. On the other hand it's far easier to repair any hits the armor takes. Also adjusted it a little so each forward location can take a Gauss/HPPC hit. Kept the x-pulse and ER Flamers for the better close range they offer. Added 2 DHS's, stay in your brackets and it should be ok.

Code: [Select]

Gecko GKO-050-KLE

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-X
Production Year: 0
Cost: 8,037,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,359

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    2  Light PPCs
    1  Small X-Pulse Laser
    2  ER Flamers
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    83 points                2.50
    Internal Locations: 4 LT, 5 RT, 2 LA, 3 RA
Engine:             Fusion Engine                300                      19.00
    Walking MP: 6
    Running MP: 9
    Jumping MP: 6 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT                                         3.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             12(24)                    2.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 136                  8.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     16           18       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  5         
                                           L/R Torso     12           16       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                             L/R Arm     8            15       
                                             L/R Leg     12           16       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small X-Pulse Laser                          HD        3         1         1.00
Light PPC                                    RA        5         2         3.00
ER Flamer                                    RA        4         1         1.00
Light PPC                                    LA        5         2         3.00
ER Flamer                                    LA        4         1         1.00
Null Signature System                        *         10        7         0.00
Chameleon LPS                                *         6         6         0.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 9

* The Null Signature System occupies 1 slot in every location except the HD.
* The Chameleon LPS occupies 1 slot in every location except the HD and CT.

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 14
6j         2       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: ECM, STL, ENE, SRCH, ES, SOA



[Diablo48]

That looks good to me, although I would still rather have another ton of armor than the SXPL because the ER Flamers give you plenty of anti-infantry capabilities.  The DHS really help a lot because the previous configuration would build up heat on just the stealth systems and Jump Jets.

[Cowdragon]

That looks good to me, although I would still rather have another ton of armor than the SXPL because the ER Flamers give you plenty of anti-infantry capabilities.  The DHS really help a lot because the previous configuration would build up heat on just the stealth systems and Jump Jets.

mostly just because in my mind I love the idea of a ball turret in the head. I suppose I could go a Laser AMS, but that would be even more heat! Plus another ton of armor :(

Would totally look freaking cool though!

[Diablo48]

mostly just because in my mind I love the idea of a ball turret in the head. I suppose I could go a Laser AMS, but that would be even more heat! Plus another ton of armor :(

Would totally look freaking cool though!

Armor is better than AMS so I would not go with that, but if you just want the head turret you could go for a standard or ER Small Laser to let you add a half ton of armor.  TAG would also be an option to let you call in artillery strikes, or you could go the other way with a recon camera and half ton of armor or a remote sensor dispenser with a half ton of ammo, but whatever you settle on I think the SXPL is a terrible choice here.

[Cowdragon]

Armor is better than AMS so I would not go with that, but if you just want the head turret you could go for a standard or ER Small Laser to let you add a half ton of armor.  TAG would also be an option to let you call in artillery strikes, or you could go the other way with a recon camera and half ton of armor or a remote sensor dispenser with a half ton of ammo, but whatever you settle on I think the SXPL is a terrible choice here.

but but but a rapid fire laser in a ball turret... on the freaking forehead! :(

[Cowdragon]

alrighty, here's more dedication to my OCD-filled mind. I need to design 60 tonners that move like Wasps dammit! LOL

This one is meant to bring as much electronic warfare to the field as possible, with as much armor as possible, as quickly as possible. Most likely being assigned to scout lances, speed was a must. But it had to survive at least the first volley from larger mechs as well. So the 60 ton frame was decided upon. Its weapons are very light, similar to the Kuma in speed and firepower (although the Kuma out performs in both). Where the Skamtare (Jester) truly shines is its ability to trick an enemy and muck with them. whether it's 3 ghost targets at a time, or taking away an enemies ability to count on C3, Streak, Artemis, what have you. It's also difficult to hide from, sporting a shiny new Bloodhound Probe. The Flamer is great for smoke screens and property destruction and pyromaniacs like myself.

Code: [Select]

Skamtare SKE-060-KLE

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F
Production Year: 0
Cost: 16,086,080 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,349

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 360 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Light PPC
    1  Small X-Pulse Laser
    1  ER Flamer
    1  Communications Equipment (1.0 tons) (7.0 tons)
    1  Angel ECM
    1  Bloodhound Active Probe
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    99 points                3.00
    Internal Locations: 2 RT, 6 LA, 5 RA, 1 RL
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             360                      16.50
    Walking MP: 6
    Running MP: 9
    Jumping MP: 6 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL                             6.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
Gyro:               XL                                                     2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 200                 12.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     20           31       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  8         
                                           L/R Torso     14           21       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  7         
                                             L/R Arm     10           20       
                                             L/R Leg     14           28       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Flamer                                    RA        4         1         1.00
Light PPC                                    RA        5         2         3.00
Angel ECM                                    RT        0         2         2.00
Bloodhound Active Probe                      RT        0         3         2.00
Communications Equipment (1.0 tons) (7.0 tons) LT        0         7         7.00
Small X-Pulse Laser                          HD        3         1         1.00
Targeting Computer                           LL        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 3

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 13
6j         1       2       1       0      3     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: AECM, BH, RCN, ENE, SRCH, ES, SOA



[Diablo48]

I like how the instant I saw the 60 ton mass at the top of the readout I knew it was going to be an inefficient 6/9/6 machine.  I think I know you too well.

Now, it is not a terrible design and it will work well for its intended electronic superiority roll assuming you do not need things like TAG or NARC which I usually bundle into EW platforms, but I think it would be better off trading the SXPL for an ERML because I think the extra anti-'Mech firepower for self defense will be more useful than a second anti-infantry weapon and you can easily afford the heat.  One other thing I realized is that you like the 60 ton frame for its ability to repel 20 point hits to every location, but you can actually get the same performance from a 55 ton quad where the lighter jets will make up for your reduced number of crits and the increased use of standard components brings the overall price down.  This design can be converted to this functionally identical quad configuration with the added bonus of being roughly 2 million C-bills cheaper which is enough to get yourself an Urbie with plenty leftover for ammo or a full lance of Warrior VTOLs.

Code: [Select]

Quad Skamtare SKE-055-Q-KLE

Mass: 55 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Quad
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 14,043,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,407

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 330 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Light PPC
    1  ER Medium Laser
    1  ER Flamer
    1  Angel ECM
    1  Bloodhound Active Probe
    1  Communications Equipment (1.0 tons) (7.0 tons)
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      99 points                5.50
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             330                      12.50
    Walking MP: 6
    Running MP: 9
    Jumping MP: 6 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 FLL, 1 FRL, 1 RLL, 1 RRL             3.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
Gyro:               XL                                                     2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: H+UL+LL+F    R: H+UL+LL+F
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 192                 12.00

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            8         
                                        Center Torso     18           28       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  8         
                                           L/R Torso     13           21       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                       L/R Front Leg     13           24       
                                        L/R Rear Leg     13           24       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Light PPC                                    RT        5         2         3.00
Angel ECM                                    RT        0         2         2.00
Bloodhound Active Probe                      RT        0         3         2.00
Targeting Computer                           RT        -         1         1.00
ER Flamer                                    LT        4         1         1.00
Communications Equipment (1.0 tons) (7.0 tons) LT        0         7         7.00
ER Medium Laser                              HD        5         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 4

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      6    Points: 14
6j         2       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: AECM, BH, RCN, ENE, SRCH, ES, SOA

[Cowdragon]

hahaha well done diablo48! I knew I should have added the TAG. And yes, you do know me well :)

I like your approach of thinking outside the box. Love the quad!

[Cowdragon]

I've messed with the Bloodhound. One of my favorite mechs, but I have a few complaints.

1) where the freaking flap can I get a mini of this thing? I can't find them anywhere, but I know they exist.

2) No scout should be without jump jets. Seriously. If this thing stumbles into the wrong area it may need to jump out in a hurry. Even if it's just far enough to get behind a wall or boulder or trees.

3) There is no C3i variant I know of :-[

Anyway, tinkering away on a favorite and here's what I've come up with. Some lessons learned in MML effectiveness as well from the Wasp I designed closer to the beginning of the thread. Swarm-I LRM's for making each LRM count. Inferno SRM's to really stick it to anything that gets too close. The SNPPC is really great when paired with the Beagle Probe. Find something and no matter where it is within the BAP's range, it's short range to the SNPPC! The ER Flamer is just sexy and you all should know me well enough by now to know whether I need it or not I'm probably sticking one on there, lol.

Same armor, speed, ES internal structure, just modified the gyro to an XL version to make the weight for the JJ's. It still otherwise performs like a standard Bloodhound, but can call in the fire from its buddies now.

Code: [Select]

B6-HND-KLE

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F
Production Year: 0
Cost: 10,865,140 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,146

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 315 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
    1  Snub-Nose PPC
    1  MML-3
    1  ER Flamer
    1  Beagle Active Probe
    1  Improved C3 Computer
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    75 points                2.50
    Internal Locations: 2 LT, 1 RT, 4 LA, 3 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             315                      11.00
    Walking MP: 7
    Running MP: 11
    Jumping MP: 4 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT                                         2.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
Gyro:               XL                                                     2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 152                  9.50
    CASE Locations: 1 RT                                                   0.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     14           21       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     11           16       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     7            14       
                                             L/R Leg     11           22       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Flamer                                    RA        4         1         1.00
Snub-Nose PPC                                LA        10        2         6.00
MML-3                                        RT        2         2         1.50
Beagle Active Probe                          LT        0         2         1.50
Improved C3 Computer                         LT        0         2         2.50
@MML-3 (LRM Swrm-I) (40)                     RT        -         1         1.00
@MML-3 (SRM Inferno) (33)                    RT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 9

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 11
7/3j       2       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: PRB, RCN, C3I, CASE, MHQ2, SRCH, ES, SOA, IF 1



[Diablo48]

I am really not a fan of the lower number of Jump Jets, the Snubbie is really not doing much for you here, and the single MML is rather underwhelming so I would pull the PPC for another 3 jets, a second MML 3, and a trio of either standard or ER Medium Lasers.  A second option to keep a big energy weapon would be to pull the entire arsenal except for the ER Flamer and upgrade to LFF armor to mount 7 jets, a LPL, and a pair of Medium Lasers to make it a a flashbulb, but you loose your long range weapon.  A final option for more of a focus on ranged combat would be to take the second variant and swap the LPL for an ERPPC, but this totally changes the roll of the 'Mech.

[Cowdragon]

I am really not a fan of the lower number of Jump Jets, the Snubbie is really not doing much for you here, and the single MML is rather underwhelming so I would pull the PPC for another 3 jets, a second MML 3, and a trio of either standard or ER Medium Lasers.  A second option to keep a big energy weapon would be to pull the entire arsenal except for the ER Flamer and upgrade to LFF armor to mount 7 jets, a LPL, and a pair of Medium Lasers to make it a a flashbulb, but you loose your long range weapon.  A final option for more of a focus on ranged combat would be to take the second variant and swap the LPL for an ERPPC, but this totally changes the roll of the 'Mech.

Alrighty. How about something like this then? I like your idea to keep many of the same weapons, like the trio of ERML's. Also added a small  X-Pulse Laser for accurate close-up firepower  and anti-infantry capabilities. Went ahead and added the second MML-3. Great idea! As for the JJ's, I really like having them. Too handy, and I like them as an option. Also added an extra DHS. Overall much happier with this variant. It stays true to the original design and artwork, incorporates the technology to match the name (Bloodhound Probe), actually ups the potential firepower it can bring to bare on an enemy. Even incorporates one of my favorite pieces of tech... the C3i. Really happy with it. Thanks for the input Diablo48!

Code: [Select]

Bloodhound B6-HND-KLE

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F
Production Year: 0
Cost: 11,310,290 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,278

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 315 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
    3  ER Medium Lasers
    2  MML-3s
    1  Small X-Pulse Laser
    1  Improved C3 Computer
    1  Bloodhound Active Probe
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    75 points                2.50
    Internal Locations: 2 LT, 4 LA, 4 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             315                      11.00
    Walking MP: 7
    Running MP: 11
    Jumping MP: 4 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT                                         2.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               XL                                                     2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 152                  9.50
    CASE Locations: 1 RT                                                   0.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     14           21       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     11           16       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     7            14       
                                             L/R Leg     11           22       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small X-Pulse Laser                          HD        3         1         1.00
2 MML-3s                                     RT        4         4         3.00
Improved C3 Computer                         LT        0         2         2.50
Bloodhound Active Probe                      LT        0         3         2.00
2 ER Medium Lasers                           RA        10        2         2.00
ER Medium Laser                              LA        5         1         1.00
@MML-3 (LRM Swrm-I) (40)                     RT        -         1         1.00
@MML-3 (SRM Inferno) (33)                    RT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 5

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 13
7/3j       3       3       1       0      2     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: C3I, BH, RCN, CASE, MHQ2, SRCH, ES, SOA, IF 1



[Diablo48]

Happy to help, although I was actually thinking of increasing the number of jets to get you to 7/11/7 movement so I went ahead and pulled it together in SSW so you could see what I was thinking of.  You loose a bit of damage over the stock variant and gain heat issues, but you can jump clear to cool off now and have the option of providing LRM support in addition to the massive upgrade to the electronics bay.  The Jump Jets are a little bit lopsided, but they do balance the lopsided payload well so I am not really bothered.

Code: [Select]

Bloodhound B3-HND

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 11,701,790 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,309

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 315 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 210 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
    3  ER Medium Lasers
    2  MML-3s
    1  ER Flamer
    1  Bloodhound Active Probe
    1  Improved C3 Computer
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    75 points                2.50
    Internal Locations: 2 LT, 6 LA, 6 RA
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             315                      11.00
    Walking MP: 7
    Running MP: 11
    Jumping MP: 7 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 LT, 2 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL                             3.50
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
Gyro:               XL                                                     2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 144                  9.00
    CASE Locations: 1 RT                                                   0.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            8         
                                        Center Torso     14           23       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  5         
                                           L/R Torso     11           15       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                             L/R Arm     7            14       
                                             L/R Leg     11           20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 ER Medium Lasers                           RA        10        2         2.00
ER Medium Laser                              LA        5         1         1.00
2 MML-3s                                     RT        4         4         3.00
Bloodhound Active Probe                      LT        0         3         2.00
Improved C3 Computer                         LT        0         2         2.50
ER Flamer                                    HD        4         1         1.00
@MML-3 (LRM Swrm-I) (40)                     RT        -         1         1.00
@MML-3 (SRM Inferno) (33)                    RT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 2

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 13
7j         2       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: BH, RCN, C3I, CASE, MHQ2, SRCH, ES, SOA

[Cowdragon]

I wanted as simple a refit as possible so kind of unofficially decided not to muck with the armor at all. So here's my compromise between your request for full jump and mine for saving the armor and weapons. Now I know I have that XL Gyro on there, but I had to cut weight somewhere to fit so many things on there, lol. So I removed the Small Pulse Laser and DHS to get everything I needed on here to fit as well. It was able to retain its primary firepower of 3 ERML's and six tubes of missiles. Of course it has the C3i Computer and Bloodhound Probe. I was sad not to be able to keep either a Flamer or SPL, but the Inferno SRM's should still be able to ruin Infantry plans without issues there.

Outward it looks identical to the original, yet inside this thing just plain performs better at its original intended role and then some. Not a large price increase either (unless 2.3 million is a lot to a FWLM Quartermaster, haha). Getting happier and happier with each incarnation of an old favorite. This would be a mech I would gladly take into just about any campaign and any battle. It's being incorporated into my fictional regiment right now actually! Enjoy and thanks again for the input and help :)

Code: [Select]

Bloodhound B6-HND-KLE

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F
Production Year: 0
Cost: 11,526,340 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,277

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 315 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
    3  ER Medium Lasers
    2  MML-3s
    1  Improved C3 Computer
    1  Bloodhound Active Probe
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    75 points                2.50
    Internal Locations: 1 HD, 2 LT, 5 LA, 4 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             315                      11.00
    Walking MP: 7
    Running MP: 11
    Jumping MP: 6 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL                             3.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               XL                                                     2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 152                  9.50
    CASE Locations: 1 RT                                                   0.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     14           21       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     11           16       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     7            14       
                                             L/R Leg     11           22       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 MML-3s                                     RT        4         4         3.00
Improved C3 Computer                         LT        0         2         2.50
Bloodhound Active Probe                      LT        0         3         2.00
2 ER Medium Lasers                           RA        10        2         2.00
ER Medium Laser                              LA        5         1         1.00
@MML-3 (LRM Swrm-I) (40)                     RT        -         1         1.00
@MML-3 (SRM Inferno) (33)                    RT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 4

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 13
7/4j       3       3       1       0      2     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: C3I, BH, RCN, CASE, MHQ2, SRCH, ES, SOA, IF 1



[Cowdragon]

realized I just plain didn't have enough mechs that used Plasma Rifles. I wanted something that could be the vanguard of a charge, bringing buddies firepower along for the ride, while standing up to withering fire, and getting its battlefists a little messy in the process. Hence, the Surtur was born (I know I've used the name before, but I think this one best fits the moniker so far). You will notice my choice of backup weapons is completely un-original for me... but this frame fits it so darn well! When Ragnarok comes my friends, Surtur will be leading the way, and fire will follow in his wake. Beware the fury of the Rasalhaguian Berserkers weilding man's oldest technology!  [madflame]

Ok, here's the rundown. 2 Plasma rifles with 4 tons of ammo total. 2 ER Flamers. All weapons are torso mounted. Endo Steel. HFF armor. 2 battle fists. standard engine/gyro/etc. Movement profile of 5/8... perfect heavy cav speed and build. 65 tons of fear inducing, blister causing, flames licking your retreating keister DOOM!

*edited: modified some armor so that all locations could take an AC/20 hit. Forgot to mention it's C3i equipped ;)

Code: [Select]

Surtur STR-065-KLE

Mass: 65 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 0
Cost: 8,087,035 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,707

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 325 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    2  Plasma Rifles
    2  ER Flamers
    1  Improved C3 Computer
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   104 points                3.50
    Internal Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT, 4 LA, 4 RA
Engine:             Fusion Engine                325                      23.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               4.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 188                  9.50
    Armor Locations: 1 HD, 4 LT, 4 RT, 4 LA, 4 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     21           25       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  8         
                                           L/R Torso     15           22       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  8         
                                             L/R Arm     10           20       
                                             L/R Leg     15           23       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Improved C3 Computer                         CT        0         2         2.50
Plasma Rifle                                 RT        10        2         6.00
ER Flamer                                    RT        4         1         1.00
Plasma Rifle                                 LT        10        2         6.00
ER Flamer                                    LT        4         1         1.00
@Plasma Rifle (20)                           RT        -         2         2.00
@Plasma Rifle (20)                           LT        -         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      6    Points: 17
5          3       3       0       0      3     0   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: C3I, ENE, MHQ2, HT1, SRCH, ES, SOA





[Diablo48]

The bloodhound is looking good, although you can keep the ER Flamer if you ditch the extra DHS because you can always jump clear if you need to cool down.  Also, the loss of the 7th Jump Jet hurts you a lot because it hurts your maximum airborne TMM so I would take a good look at other things you can remove to make room for it if you are not willing to compromise on armor.  CASE would be my next suggestion because it will not help you very much or often, and if that is not an option you could also cut back to an ERSL or a BAP to free up the weight.

Edit: forgot the Surtur.

The design is not bad overall, but the armor is far too thin and it would be at a peak efficiency with a LFE, so I went ahead and made the modification which I think is a significant improvement.  This design keeps the same weapons and heat dissipation, but gains max armor and a TC for the Plasma Rifles.  I would honestly have preferred to loose a hand and 5 points of armor for a RL 10 to give you a little more kick, but this machine is so obviously built for close combat that this would be a bad idea.

Code: [Select]

Surtur STR-065L-KLE

Mass: 65 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 12,788,160 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,875

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 325 Light Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    2  Plasma Rifles
    2  ER Flamers
    1  Improved C3 Computer
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Overview:
Upgrade of Cowdragon's design.


================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   104 points                3.50
    Internal Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 3 LA, 3 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine:             Light Fusion Engine          325                      18.00
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               4.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 211                 12.00
    Armor Locations: 1 HD, 3 RT, 5 LA, 5 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     21           32       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  10       
                                           L/R Torso     15           22       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  8         
                                             L/R Arm     10           20       
                                             L/R Leg     15           30       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plasma Rifle                                 RT        10        2         6.00
ER Flamer                                    RT        4         1         1.00
Plasma Rifle                                 LT        10        2         6.00
ER Flamer                                    LT        4         1         1.00
Targeting Computer                           LT        -         3         3.00
Improved C3 Computer                         CT        0         2         2.50
@Plasma Rifle (20)                           RT        -         2         2.00
@Plasma Rifle (20)                           LT        -         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 19
5          3       3       0       0      3     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: C3I, ENE, MHQ2, HT1, SRCH, ES, SOA

[Cowdragon]

ooh nice! The problem is the cost in C-Bills goes out the roof with anything but a standard engine in it. I meant it as a cheap machine that would still have some good effect on the battlefield. Would the LFE deter many buyers do you think?

Here's onto my next machine. Been posted before on the older forums, then lost, then redesigned several times until now I'm pretty pleased with it. The Magni (son of Thor).


It mounts only 3 weapons, although one of them doubles as an SRM and an LRM launcher. Together they are very effective. The more I play with this the more I am making it my standard "high tech" workhorse heavy. I have another couple that are lower tech and wonderful for what they do, but this machine really "brings it" to the battlefield. LBX-5 AC, HPPC, and MML-7. It has some heat issues and could use more armor, but it really does do what the Summoner/Thor does as well. It pounds enemies to dust.

Code: [Select]

Magni MGI-070-KLE

Mass: 70 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F
Production Year: 0
Cost: 16,658,867 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,763

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 350 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Light Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  Heavy PPC
    1  LB 5-X AC
    1  MML-7
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   107 points                3.50
    Internal Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 1 RT, 4 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             350                      15.00
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 5 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   5.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               4.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Light Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 186                 11.00
    Armor Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 2 LA, 3 RA
    CASE II Locations: 1 RT                                                1.00

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     22           26       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  7         
                                           L/R Torso     15           22       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     11           22       
                                             L/R Leg     15           22       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MML-7                                        LT        4         4         4.50
LB 5-X AC                                    RA        1         5         8.00
Heavy PPC                                    LA        15        4        10.00
@LB 5-X (Cluster) (20)                       RT        -         1         1.00
@LB 5-X (Slug) (20)                          RT        -         1         1.00
@MML-7 (LRM) (17)                            RT        -         1         1.00
@MML-7 (SRM) (14)                            RT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      6    Points: 18
5j         3       3       3       0      3     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: CASEII, SRCH, ES, SOA, IF 1



[Diablo48]

ooh nice! The problem is the cost in C-Bills goes out the roof with anything but a standard engine in it. I meant it as a cheap machine that would still have some good effect on the battlefield. Would the LFE deter many buyers do you think?

The LFE does not add much to the price tag for a frontline machine where the real cost is in transportation, so unless you are planning on selling primarily to militia the LFE is fine.  If on the other hand you really want to cut the price tag with the SFE you would actually gain free tonnage by dropping to 60 tons so that would be a good change for a budget model.

Here's onto my next machine. Been posted before on the older forums, then lost, then redesigned several times until now I'm pretty pleased with it. The Magni (son of Thor).


It mounts only 3 weapons, although one of them doubles as an SRM and an LRM launcher. Together they are very effective. The more I play with this the more I am making it my standard "high tech" workhorse heavy. I have another couple that are lower tech and wonderful for what they do, but this machine really "brings it" to the battlefield. LBX-5 AC, HPPC, and MML-7. It has some heat issues and could use more armor, but it really does do what the Summoner/Thor does as well. It pounds enemies to dust.

This is not bad for a multi-roll heavy, but it does have some issues.  The first and most obvious is the 5-X is really not doing much for you when you have a HPPC forcing you into the brackets of the larger 10-X, so I would look to upgrade to that somehow.  You also have a problem with light armor which is not a good idea when you already have a vulnerable XLE.  The CASE II provides some protection against ammo explosions, but with nothing but ammo and the engine in that torso location the result is more likely to be repeated detonations pulping your pilots than actually protecting the 'Mech.

That said, I went ahead and rebuilt it with some modifications to fix these issues which did wind up costing you two MML tubes, but I think the increased firepower of the 10-X more than makes up for it.  After the visible changes, an XL Gyro frees up weight for more armor while clever ammo placement eliminates the need for CASE which gets you up to the efficient maximum possible protection for a 70 ton frame.  The heat balance and movement profile remains the same, although the MML did have to switch to the left side to shorten its ammo feeds.

Code: [Select]

Magni MGI-071-KLE

Mass: 70 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 17,113,617 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,870

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 350 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Light Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  Heavy PPC
    1  LB 10-X AC
    1  MML-5
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Overview:
Upgrade of Cowdragon's design.


================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   107 points                3.50
    Internal Locations: 7 RT, 3 LA, 4 RA
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             350                      15.00
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 5 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LL                                   5.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               XL                                                     2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Light Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 212                 12.50
    Armor Locations: 4 LT, 3 LA

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     22           33       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  10       
                                           L/R Torso     15           22       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  8         
                                             L/R Arm     11           22       
                                             L/R Leg     15           28       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LB 10-X AC                                   RA        2         6        11.00
Heavy PPC                                    LA        15        4        10.00
MML-5                                        LT        3         3         3.00
@MML-5 (SRM) (20)                            HD        -         1         1.00
@LB 10-X (Cluster) (10)                      RL        -         1         1.00
@LB 10-X (Slug) (10)                         RL        -         1         1.00
@MML-5 (LRM) (24)                            LL        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 19
5j         3       3       3       0      3     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SOA, FLK 1/1/1

[Cowdragon]

looking at the 60 ton Surtur very closely. Thanks for the idea.

For the Magni, how about going with an ERPPC and then upping the AC to a 20X? The PPC+AC+MML combo is amazing! If I can figure out how to manage the heat just right (although I'm loving the ranges on the LB5X) I really think I'm in business. Good ideas, but I want to mess with it just a little more. :)

[Diablo48]

looking at the 60 ton Surtur very closely. Thanks for the idea.

For the Magni, how about going with an ERPPC and then upping the AC to a 20X? The PPC+AC+MML combo is amazing! If I can figure out how to manage the heat just right (although I'm loving the ranges on the LB5X) I really think I'm in business. Good ideas, but I want to mess with it just a little more. :)

Happy to help with the Surtur, although I am going to have to advise against the change to the Magni unless you want to convert it into more of a brawler which I would do with a standard PPC for heat management reasons.  The HPPC/10-X combo is a great option at medium to long (IS) range that is still very viable in close combat, but the ERPPC lacks the punch to really scare people at range which leaves you relying on the big gun for your damage which forces you into close combat.  The MMLs do give you a bit of extra punch at any range and keep the HPPC/10-X combo truly deadly in close, but they are just not damaging enough to really scare people so they cannot keep the 20-X variant relevant at more than 12 hexes.

As for the 5-X, it is a great weapon but its real advantage is that it can critseek at more than 18 hexes which is where most IS main guns caps out so it works best in conjunction with ERPPCs and Gauss Rifles that can carve holes in people's armor at that range.  It works far better in Clan space where it can work with things like harder hitting ERPPCs, ERLLs, and Gauss Rifles because most Clan combat occurs at 20+ hexes.

[Cowdragon]

Happy to help with the Surtur, although I am going to have to advise against the change to the Magni unless you want to convert it into more of a brawler which I would do with a standard PPC for heat management reasons.  The HPPC/10-X combo is a great option at medium to long (IS) range that is still very viable in close combat, but the ERPPC lacks the punch to really scare people at range which leaves you relying on the big gun for your damage which forces you into close combat.  The MMLs do give you a bit of extra punch at any range and keep the HPPC/10-X combo truly deadly in close, but they are just not damaging enough to really scare people so they cannot keep the 20-X variant relevant at more than 12 hexes.

As for the 5-X, it is a great weapon but its real advantage is that it can critseek at more than 18 hexes which is where most IS main guns caps out so it works best in conjunction with ERPPCs and Gauss Rifles that can carve holes in people's armor at that range.  It works far better in Clan space where it can work with things like harder hitting ERPPCs, ERLLs, and Gauss Rifles because most Clan combat occurs at 20+ hexes.

ok, I went back to look into MegaMek to see which variant I had been using so well and it's the following. I think it fits my playstyle the best for the weight and speed of the design. With it I'm able to keep my distance for most of a battle, and only need to close in emergencies or to finish someone off with the ERPPC/SRM combo. It is capable of forcing a PSR at range, but seriously this doesn't happen once every Star League, lol. The Targeting Computer makes things a lot better on it. The armor on it is almost identical to the Clan Summoner, so I'm not worried there. Makes me remember to keep it far away from most enemies. It also keeps it competitive on any field of battle, whether it's against Inner Sphere (as you said outside of that 18 hex main gun) or against the Clans (which granted still toss more damage back, but at least this can keep pace and shoot back). So pretty happy with it. I'll be postingthe 60 ton Surtur next :)

Code: [Select]

Magni MGI-070-KLE

Mass: 70 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 0
Cost: 16,442,967 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,657

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 350 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  ER PPC
    1  LB 5-X AC
    2  MML-3s
    1  Small Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   107 points                3.50
    Internal Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT, 4 LA, 3 RA
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             350                      15.00
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 5 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   5.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               4.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 184                 11.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     22           28       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  7         
                                           L/R Torso     15           24       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     11           17       
                                             L/R Leg     15           23       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small Pulse Laser                            HD        2         1         1.00
Targeting Computer                           RT        -         4         4.00
2 MML-3s                                     LT        4         4         3.00
LB 5-X AC                                    RA        1         5         8.00
ER PPC                                       LA        15        3         7.00
@LB 5-X (Cluster) (20)                       RL        -         1         1.00
@LB 5-X (Slug) (20)                          RL        -         1         1.00
@MML-3 (LRM) (40)                            LL        -         1         1.00
@MML-3 (SRM) (33)                            LL        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 3

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      6    Points: 17
5j         3       2       2       0      3     1   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SOA, IF 1



[Cowdragon]

ok, here's the 60 ton Surtur. I have to say I like this a lot better! A nice up close brawler. Fast, durable, even had enough left over to armor the cockpit, although not sure what that does if the head is shot with a Gauss Rifle, but it sounds good right? :)

Code: [Select]

Surtur STR-060-KLE

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F
Production Year: 0
Cost: 7,214,560 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,693

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    2  Plasma Rifles
    2  ER Flamers
    1  Improved C3 Computer
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    99 points                3.00
    Internal Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT, 4 LA, 4 RA
Engine:             Fusion Engine                300                      19.00
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            (A) Standard                                           4.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 188                  9.50
    Armor Locations: 1 HD, 4 LT, 4 RT, 4 LA, 4 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     20           26       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  7         
                                           L/R Torso     14           23       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                             L/R Arm     10           20       
                                             L/R Leg     14           25       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Improved C3 Computer                         CT        0         2         2.50
Plasma Rifle                                 RT        10        2         6.00
ER Flamer                                    RT        4         1         1.00
Plasma Rifle                                 LT        10        2         6.00
ER Flamer                                    LT        4         1         1.00
@Plasma Rifle (20)                           RT        -         2         2.00
@Plasma Rifle (20)                           LT        -         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      6    Points: 17
5          3       3       0       0      3     0   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: C3I, ENE, MHQ2, HT1, SRCH, ES, SOA



[Diablo48]

ok, I went back to look into MegaMek to see which variant I had been using so well and it's the following. I think it fits my playstyle the best for the weight and speed of the design. With it I'm able to keep my distance for most of a battle, and only need to close in emergencies or to finish someone off with the ERPPC/SRM combo. It is capable of forcing a PSR at range, but seriously this doesn't happen once every Star League, lol. The Targeting Computer makes things a lot better on it. The armor on it is almost identical to the Clan Summoner, so I'm not worried there. Makes me remember to keep it far away from most enemies. It also keeps it competitive on any field of battle, whether it's against Inner Sphere (as you said outside of that 18 hex main gun) or against the Clans (which granted still toss more damage back, but at least this can keep pace and shoot back). So pretty happy with it. I'll be postingthe 60 ton Surtur next :)

Code: [Select]

Magni MGI-070-KLE

Mass: 70 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 0
Cost: 16,442,967 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,657

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 350 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  ER PPC
    1  LB 5-X AC
    2  MML-3s
    1  Small Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   107 points                3.50
    Internal Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT, 4 LA, 3 RA
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             350                      15.00
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 5 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   5.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               4.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 184                 11.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     22           28       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  7         
                                           L/R Torso     15           24       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     11           17       
                                             L/R Leg     15           23       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small Pulse Laser                            HD        2         1         1.00
Targeting Computer                           RT        -         4         4.00
2 MML-3s                                     LT        4         4         3.00
LB 5-X AC                                    RA        1         5         8.00
ER PPC                                       LA        15        3         7.00
@LB 5-X (Cluster) (20)                       RL        -         1         1.00
@LB 5-X (Slug) (20)                          RL        -         1         1.00
@MML-3 (LRM) (40)                            LL        -         1         1.00
@MML-3 (SRM) (33)                            LL        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 3

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      6    Points: 17
5j         3       2       2       0      3     1   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SOA, IF 1



The use of the ERPPC does change things because when used with the 5-X it gives you the ability to punch holes and critseek at more than 18 hexes.  That said it could be a little bit better by pulling the slugs for the 5-X to get more armor, although to be honest I would be more inclined to also cut the TC for another MML 3, a DHS, a ton of MML ammo, and a half-ton of armor because you are wasting 2 tons of TC on the 5-X which cannot receive the bonus.  Remember: armor is cheap, 'Mechs are not.  You always want to pile on the protection even if you want to keep the range open because you will have to contend with Gauss Rifles, ERPPCs, LRMs, and Clan technology which can all hit hard at extreme range.

Now, I am liking the lighter Surtur a lot better, although I think the armored cockpit is wasted tonnage.  A really easy change would be to move the armor to the C3i module because that is far more likely to take a crit in the CT, or if you are feeling like getting a little more involved you could swap to FF armor and an XL gyro to buy yourself enough free mass for an ECM Suite to protect your C3 link or interfere with enemy electronics.  This would also force you to put the electronics in the legs which is nice because it is very unlikely that you will loose them there, although you do have a more vulnerable XL Gyro to deal with.

[Cowdragon]

Yeah, I wasn't sure what to do with the last little bit of leftover tonnage with no crits to work with on the Surtur. Good ideas, I'll keep tinkering with it.

As for the Magni, I generally don't do slug ammo with the LB5X-AC, but I thought it would be nice, at least fluff-wise where I made it to also be good against Clan opponents. What happened was that damn new Clan armor that makes LBX-AC's useless with slug ammo. So use the slugs+TC to take off the armor along with the ERPPC and LRM's, then once I'm through switch to the cluster rounds. So far it has worked great on MegaMek, but that's against the bot. I do love the range on this thing though. Not very many of my designs (Inner Sphere) use one of each type of weapons system, let alone can do it from this distance!

[Diablo48]

Yeah, I wasn't sure what to do with the last little bit of leftover tonnage with no crits to work with on the Surtur. Good ideas, I'll keep tinkering with it.

As for the Magni, I generally don't do slug ammo with the LB5X-AC, but I thought it would be nice, at least fluff-wise where I made it to also be good against Clan opponents. What happened was that damn new Clan armor that makes LBX-AC's useless with slug ammo. So use the slugs+TC to take off the armor along with the ERPPC and LRM's, then once I'm through switch to the cluster rounds. So far it has worked great on MegaMek, but that's against the bot. I do love the range on this thing though. Not very many of my designs (Inner Sphere) use one of each type of weapons system, let alone can do it from this distance!

Fair enough, just remember that FL armor is fairly rare and you can still load your single ton with slugs if you have to.  Also note that my change did add another MML rack so while you loose the rather pitiful flexibility of the 5-point slugs, you gain extra missile damage which should make up for it.

[Cowdragon]

Fair enough, just remember that FL armor is fairly rare and you can still load your single ton with slugs if you have to.  Also note that my change did add another MML rack so while you loose the rather pitiful flexibility of the 5-point slugs, you gain extra missile damage which should make up for it.

That is a good point. I think if I didn't already have such success with it I would be more prone to changing it. Reading through of of the notes I have linked to it in Excel I'm remembering why I love it so. I even made mention of the questionable 2 tons of ammo, and it working better than I thought it would, lol. I did note though that the head mounted small pulse laser could go into the center torso for a safer location and crit packing. Although thinking about it even more makes me wonder if that wouldn't just make a nice extra ton of armor! Hmmm...

anyway, just for fun, and to stick with the "Inner Sphere Remakes of Awesome Clantech" design philosophy I decided to make a child of the Loki (Hellbringer) and came up with the Hel. The configuration seems seriously solid, but not really matching the Hellbringer in the same ways as the Magni matches the Summoner. For added craziness though, you could trade out the LGauss Rifle for an HVAC/5 and really have fun. lol, I do NOT recommend this however. I don't like stuff that blows me up haha.

Code: [Select]

Hel HEL-060-KLE

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 0
Cost: 10,115,200 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,520

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Light Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  ER PPC
    1  Light Gauss Rifle
    1  MML-5
    1  ER Flamer
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    99 points                3.00
    Internal Locations: 5 LT, 2 RT, 3 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL
Engine:             Light Fusion Engine          300                      14.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               XL                                                     1.50
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 197                 11.00
    Armor Locations: 1 HD, 5 LT, 5 RT, 3 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     20           32       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  8         
                                           L/R Torso     14           21       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  7         
                                             L/R Arm     10           20       
                                             L/R Leg     14           26       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC                                       RA        15        3         7.00
ER Flamer                                    RA        4         1         1.00
Light Gauss Rifle                            LA        1         5        12.00
MML-5                                        RT        3         3         3.00
@Light Gauss Rifle (16)                      LA        -         1         1.00
@MML-5 (LRM) (24)                            RL        -         1         1.00
@MML-5 (SRM) (20)                            RL        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 15
5          3       3       3       0      3     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SOA, IF 1



[Diablo48]

That is a good point. I think if I didn't already have such success with it I would be more prone to changing it. Reading through of of the notes I have linked to it in Excel I'm remembering why I love it so. I even made mention of the questionable 2 tons of ammo, and it working better than I thought it would, lol. I did note though that the head mounted small pulse laser could go into the center torso for a safer location and crit packing. Although thinking about it even more makes me wonder if that wouldn't just make a nice extra ton of armor! Hmmm...

Fair enough, although I am still of the opinion that you would be best served by trading a ton of ammo for armor.  You could probably get away with the SPL swap most of the time if you really want to keep the ammo, but that worries me because it leaves you defenseless against infantry.

anyway, just for fun, and to stick with the "Inner Sphere Remakes of Awesome Clantech" design philosophy I decided to make a child of the Loki (Hellbringer) and came up with the Hel. The configuration seems seriously solid, but not really matching the Hellbringer in the same ways as the Magni matches the Summoner. For added craziness though, you could trade out the LGauss Rifle for an HVAC/5 and really have fun. lol, I do NOT recommend this however. I don't like stuff that blows me up haha.

Code: [Select]

Hel HEL-060-KLE

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 0
Cost: 10,115,200 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,520

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Light Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  ER PPC
    1  Light Gauss Rifle
    1  MML-5
    1  ER Flamer
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    99 points                3.00
    Internal Locations: 5 LT, 2 RT, 3 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL
Engine:             Light Fusion Engine          300                      14.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               XL                                                     1.50
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 197                 11.00
    Armor Locations: 1 HD, 5 LT, 5 RT, 3 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     20           32       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  8         
                                           L/R Torso     14           21       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  7         
                                             L/R Arm     10           20       
                                             L/R Leg     14           26       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC                                       RA        15        3         7.00
ER Flamer                                    RA        4         1         1.00
Light Gauss Rifle                            LA        1         5        12.00
MML-5                                        RT        3         3         3.00
@Light Gauss Rifle (16)                      LA        -         1         1.00
@MML-5 (LRM) (24)                            RL        -         1         1.00
@MML-5 (SRM) (20)                            RL        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 15
5          3       3       3       0      3     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SOA, IF 1



This is a very good design for long range combat, but the Hellbringer is 65 tons so it needs to gain some weight to match.  Fortunately, the only thing that will actually change is the XL Gyro will give you another half ton which brings you up to the new efficient maximum protection if you dump it into the armor so nothing really needs to change.  Really, the only thing I can see to change is pulling the extra DHS because it does not buy you much (you can fire the main guns and walk on the base 10) and the freed mass could get you an Artemis IV unit to increase the missile damage or another ton of LGR ammo so you never have to worry about running dry if someone decides they want to bunker down in cover.